The "Dwight Howard to the Mavs" Info Thread v.2012-2013

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by markus1234

....how about handing a bright future ? (100 times brighter than the MAVS)



The same goes for all the other teams. And of course the MAVS with Dwight or Deron.



Gasol+Kobe
Lebron+Wade+Bosh
Wade+Shaq
Chandler+Dirk
Garnett+Allen+Pierce

worked pretty well if you ask me

Dwight + Kobe on the same stage is problematic imo. The Heat trio is similar but it took them a season to build cohesion and a second year to build a supporting cast.

The injury issue does apply to all teams. And those teams with a strong bench/role players typically win championships. I don't believe the Lakers are there yet and now they have a new CBA that will restrict their personnel additions/changes dramatically. The Heat is currently off the charts with both stars and role players.

[b_o_r]

Don't see what the fuss is about the Lakers and the trade. They didn't get significantly better. They were already in discussion for the top seed in the West with Bynum. Howard moving to western conference nullifies what he does great which is anchor a defense. Too many run and gun/jumpshooting teams in the western conference which differs from the grind it out style of the east.

It actually helps the Mavs because Bynum destroyed the Mavericks. Howard doesn't have the offensive skill set of Bynum. Mavs really don't have to double down if the ball is feed in the post.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

Don't see what the fuss is about the Lakers and the trade. They didn't get significantly better. They were already in discussion for the top seed in the West with Bynum. Howard moving to western conference nullifies what he does great which is anchor a defense. Too many run and gun/jumpshooting teams in the western conference which differs from the grind it out style of the east.

It actually helps the Mavs because Bynum destroyed the Mavericks. Howard doesn't have the offensive skill set of Bynum. Mavs really don't have to double down if the ball is feed in the post.

I'm just going to keep it simple and say that I disagree. A lot.

A lot.

[markus1234]

And as always with the Lakers, it worked out: They flipped the league's second-best center (a top-20 player) into the league's best center (and third-best player in the league) without sacrificing anything else of substance. I wrote this a few weeks ago and I'm writing it again: If scientists could create basketball-playing robots from scratch and were asked to create someone to play with Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant and Nash, basically, they would create Dwight Howard: a ridiculously strong shot blocker/rebounder who can run the floor and doesn't need the ball to be happy. In the span of 3.5 seconds, the Lakers went from "old, slow, can't defend anybody" to "who's stopping us?"

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8254854/mailbag

[Male30Dan]

There is a lot of craziness in this thread. Lakers are going to be really, really good.

[JCmasta]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm just going to keep it simple and say that I disagree. A lot.

A lot.

Well that's great, but it doesn't mean a whole lot.

[Mavsfan4ever]

Sadly, the Lakers are looking scary this year.

[twelli]

The accumulation of super-star players seems to be the way to go to have ultimate success these days, but I like how the Mavs have won the title. Start from scratch, go through the growing pains, develop your star player, surround him with quality players and role players, try time and time again in the playoffs, and finally get over the hump. That's a great, inspiring story. Dirk winning it with Deron and Dwight at his side wouldn't have felt as good.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm just going to keep it simple and say that I disagree. A lot.

A lot.

People are kidding themselves if they think the Lakers didn't help themselves with this trade. Bynum's a strong player, and one who's well worth a max contract, but Dwight, if the back injury hasn't diminished him, is a top 2 player in the NBA, and is more productive and effective than Bynum in every phase of the game (okay, I'll digress on free throw shooting). Between Kobe's long-running selfish streak, Nash's age, and Dwight's back, the Lakers will still face some questions going into this season, but they could easily turn out to be historically good, and that's more true today than it was yesterday.

[sefant77]

For sure the moment Dirk retires you tear all down, trade the remaining 2nd/3rd options for future lottery picks/talents and tank so much that you get at least two consecutive high lottery picks....

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by twelli

The accumulation of super-star players seems to be the way to go to have ultimate success these days, but I like how the Mavs have won the title. Start from scratch, go through the growing pains, develop your star player, surround him with quality players and role players, try time and time again in the playoffs, and finally get over the hump.

Yep, it's like the difference between making love to your wife of twenty years and jerking off into a sock...

[GhostFace]

Like a cheap punch to the gut. My hatred for the Laker franchise, fans, city, players, everything just continues to grow. It might not be in my life time, but I hope that franchise burns to the ground. Every single one of them.

[twelli]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, it's like the difference between making love to your wife of twenty years and jerking off into a sock...

Jerking off into a sock, is that an American thing? I don't really get the concept. What a waste of socks...

A certain type of sport fans roots for teams with the ability to attract super-star caliber players on a consistent basis. You have it in European soccer too, ManU, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc. Lakers and Heat fans, I think of 15 year-olds in Kobe/LeBron jersey, whining and crying when the team doesn't win, bragging all over the place after a win. Low-risk taking fans.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by sefant77

For sure the moment Dirk retires you tear all down, trade the remaining 2nd/3rd options for future lottery picks/talents and tank so much that you get at least two consecutive high lottery picks....

Will Cuban ever do that? I often wonder about that, and i'm afraid the answer might be no. Nothing wrong with being competitive of course, but we have a much bigger chance to get our next superstar through the draft, than in free agency.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by twelli

Jerking off into a sock, is that an American thing? I don't really get the concept. What a waste of socks...

I'm not sure if it's a particularly American thing... I've never tried it myself, seems like it would chafe... I think I lifted the concept from a stand-up comedian (Bill Hicks?) - it sounded cheap enough to illustrate your point.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

but we have a much bigger chance to get our next superstar through the draft, than in free agency.

Of course.

I mean why the hell should an elite free agent come to Dallas ? What makes Dallas more special than all the other teams ?

A young Dirk made us more special than let's say Charlotte, Toronto or Philly. But young Dirk is no more.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not sure if it's a particularly American thing... I've never tried it myself, seems like it would chafe... I think I lifted the concept from a stand-up comedian (Bill Hicks?) - it sounded cheap enough to illustrate your point.

It dates at least back to the classic movie "Clerks." The scene where the lady is in the video store with her kid in tow and Randall is ordering new titles.

[Underdog]

If players were more concerned with winning than they are with money (which they're not, but hypotheticals aren't bound to the laws of reality), which roster would be more appealing in 2013-14:


Nash
Kobe
Artest
Gasol
Howard

or

CP3
Mayo
Marion
Dirk
Howard

[markus1234]

OK, Cuban let's get CP3 in 2013 and then we can call Dwight.

I fear it is a pipe dream

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by markus1234

OK, Cuban let's get CP3 in 2013 and then we can call Dwight.

I fear it is a pipe dream

It is a pipe dream but its got a small chance of happening. Especially if the Heat bulldoze their way to another title. That would leave CP3 and D12 in a bad situation as Kobe and Nash aren't getting any younger and Blake Griffin isn't a top ten player. There only realistic title shot would be CP3, Dirk, D12.

[oilfieldtrash]

^^
I've officially lost my mind. Its the hopeless 90's Mavs again!!

[Windmill360]

Not a chance in hell paul and howard leave LA. None.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Not a chance in hell paul and howard leave LA. None.

This.

[Underdog]

You guys suck at reading comprehension.

[Lor20]

i honestly am not sure if howard is that huge of an upgrade this season as he will miss training camp and probably a month or more recovering from the back surgery. He'll also not be in top shape and quite frankly i think he wont be able to get fully integrated into the lakers team by the playoffs.

Kobe is getting older too and is clearly slowing down - his effort/ability on the defensive end is clearly deteriorating. Nash is also a defensive liability. Good perimeter shooting teams (eg OKC) will give the lakers huge issues.

it will also be interesting how three players that need the ball to be effective offensively (kobe, nash, dwight) will play together.

[dude1394]

They will be fine, nashie will see to it.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Lor20

i honestly am not sure if howard is that huge of an upgrade this season as he will miss training camp and probably a month or more recovering from the back surgery. He'll also not be in top shape and quite frankly i think he wont be able to get fully integrated into the lakers team by the playoffs.

Kobe is getting older too and is clearly slowing down - his effort/ability on the defensive end is clearly deteriorating. Nash is also a defensive liability. Good perimeter shooting teams (eg OKC) will give the lakers huge issues.

it will also be interesting how three players that need the ball to be effective offensively (kobe, nash, dwight) will play together.

Dwight needs a good pass to be effective offensively. He's going to get it.

"Nash is also a defensive liability." Grasping for straws.

[Sportstudi]

And another Gasol-esque trade in favor of the Lakers. They must have either the best FO in the league or the other teams love to bend over to give the Lakers some *censored*. They got Dwight Howard, Earl Clark and Chris Duhon for Bynum, Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts and a 2017 1st round draft pick (I think even lottery protected). Incredible. Howard (if he gets back to shape) is a much better fit for the Lakers even more so with Gasol.

Kobe must be the luckiest player this league has ever seen. In an era loaded with perimeter players he basically got gifted with the best available centers/frontlines whenever it was possible. First the threepeat with Shaq playing in his absolute prime (just a dominant monster). After Shaq's departure Kobe sucked a**, lost twice in the first round and once missed the playoffs. After getting paired with Gasol (for a bag of chips) he got another two rings. Yes, Gasol didn't win sh*t as the main man in Memphis, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player. Kobe needs a dominant big, otherwise he's useless. And Gasol needs someone who can take over the scoring responsibilities. Kobe needed Gasol and Gasol needed Kobe. Simple as that. You have to add Odom and the Lakers had the best available front line in the league in 2009 and 2010. Then Gasol was playing poorly in the last two seasons, Kobe again didn't win anything. And now the Howard trade...

Additionally, you can also throw PJ as one of the best coaches ever into the mix.

If you dig in the other boards or discuss with friends, it's horrible to do that in case they are Laker homers. Sadly, most Laker fans I know (or see in baords) are "Kobists". If the Lakers win, it's because of Kobe. If they lose, it's (almost) never Kobe's fault. Laker homers would never admit these facts listened above concerning Kobe's luck. In case the Lakers win in 2013, I'm sure they will put Kobe on pair with MJ. That would be flat out ridiculous.

Btw, I'm NOT a Kobe hater. He's a top 10 player of all time in my personal list. But he's got incredible luck as well.

[JerryWest_44]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Before you hand the championship to the Lakers consider they are one injury away from being a competitive but not scary playoff team. If Nash goes down they have a mediocre backup. If Dwight goes down or is less than 100% due to his back then Gasol puts in significant minutes at the 5 and Jamison is your PF....

Many championship teams are mediocre if one of their best players go down. This is no news flash. One should worry if your team is mediocre if all players are healthy!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by JerryWest_44

Many championship teams are mediocre if one of their best players go down.

See: Butler, Caron

You shouldn't underrate depth in this league...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

As obvious as this is, the Lakers still gave up Andrew Bynum. I'd be a lot more pissed if they got Howard for nothing. And this is all on Orlando...no question. Big time franchises wait patiently for an opposing GM to make stupid move.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm really not that upset about the move. Bynum for Howard in some sort of deal always made the most sense. It is what it is.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

As obvious as this is, the Lakers still gave up Andrew Bynum. I'd be a lot more pissed if they got Howard for nothing. And this is all on Orlando...no question. Big time franchises wait patiently for an opposing GM to make stupid move.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm really not that upset about the move. Bynum for Howard in some sort of deal always made the most sense. It is what it is.

I think most people get pissed because, while that was the assumed move, they'd still have significant holes to take care of (point guard and bench scoring). Those have either been taken care of or have been dramatically improved.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think most people get pissed because, while that was the assumed move, they'd still have significant holes to take care of (point guard and bench scoring). Those have either been taken care of or have been dramatically improved.

I feel like the Lakers always manage to fill out their roster regardless. They are a big draw to play for and never seem to have much of an issue getting guys they want sooner or later. All the more reason to hate and beat them.

[markus1234]

All the more reason to keep Tyson and stop pipe dreaming about Dwight.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Will Cuban ever do that? I often wonder about that, and i'm afraid the answer might be no. Nothing wrong with being competitive of course, but we have a much bigger chance to get our next superstar through the draft, than in free agency.

What's the difference between Orlando post Howard and Dallas post Dirk now?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

What's the difference between Orlando post Howard and Dallas post Dirk now?

The front office.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

What's the difference between Orlando post Howard and Dallas post Dirk now?

for example

Dallas


Orlando/rest of the league


so they say.

All the stars are dying to get a brand new play station in their locker room. Ask Donnie. We are 2nd to none.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The front office.

Yep the front office is what drove Howard out of Orlando. You look at Dirk, the FO has treated him like royalty, and despite just having one ring, Dirk has not wanted out at all.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The front office.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers...,7410131.story

[sefant77]

Ah f me, the Rockets offer was even better than i thought. And much better than the crap the Magic got now:

Houston was only offering two first round picks, though one would have come from the Raptors and has protections to make it more likely to be a lottery selection.

Houston would only offer two players from a group that included Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Jeremy Lamb, Terrence Jones, Royce White and Donatas Motiejunas.

So Lamb, the PF project they like the most, the Raptors lottery pick and another pick.

Are you kidding me? And they took 27y old Afflalo and crappy pics to start a total rebuild.

Yes we got lucky with Colangelo doing Marion a favor to trade him to Dallas and Jordan backing out of the Chandler-Toronto trade over night but boy, we got unlucky with Deron and Dwight. First the Hawks with giving JJ that stupid contract just to dump him two years later for expiring trash and then now the Magic taking the Lakers offer...