dirk, fin, and nash's numbers..playoffs compared to regular season - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 10-15-2003, 05:46 PM

luvbun, one thing..
your quotes from KG aren't exactly from the end of the mavs playoff run, are they? Aren't they from sometime around the end of the second round?

just curious. Isn't it hard to judge and overall playoff MVP based on just two rounds when the mavs played three rounds?

It's like taking a quote from someone two-thirds the way through regular season when they state that "at this point, joe blow should be the MVP of the league".....
Does that mean that at the end of the season the person in question MUST share the same beliefs as to who the MVP should be? Of course not

In the same sense, why would you hold anyone to a quote from a thread that asks who the playoff MVP up to a certain point would be? Wouldn't you dig up quotes from KG from sometime after the playoffs are finished?

Yes, Dirk might have been injured during part of the SA series, but it's definitely possible that NVE could have made enough mistakes in the third and final series for people to change their mind about who the playoff MVP was.

kg_veteran · 10-15-2003, 09:09 PM

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Originally posted by: Lvubun1
Hey Kg remember this:

"That said, if I had to pick one guy I'd probably pick Nick simply because he fired the team up before Game 2 and seemed to rebuild the Mavs' confidence"

Yes, I do remember that. That's a comment I made during the middle of the Sacramento series. Several of us were debating whether Dirk or Nick was the MVP of the Sacramento series and/or of the playoffs <u>to that point</u>. In fact, TheKid started the thread and led off with this comment:

"If you HAD to pick an MVP for the series to this point who would it be? Now I know most of you will say Dirk hands down but to be honest I don't think it's as clear cut and dry as that. I think NVE has really left his stamp on this series AND the Portland series.

To be honest, if I had to pick after the first series it would have been Dirk no question, but now I truly don't know but it would definately be between Dirk and NVE. I'm curious what you all think?"

Here was my complete initial reply:

"I think against the Kings, it's been an amazing TEAM effort. That said, if I had to pick one guy I'd probably pick Nick simply because he fired the team up before Game 2 and seemed to rebuild the Mavs' confidence. However, I think for stretches of this series, Dirk, Nick, Steve, and Mike have taken turns carrying the team."

In fact, here's the rest of what I said in that thread on that topic, since you cherry-picked the comments out of context that you THOUGHT made me look bad:

"I don't think the MVP should be measured solely by stats.

I think it's fair to say that the Mavericks wouldn't have beaten Portland and wouldn't be up 3-2 against Sacramento without the play of Dirk or Nick. Both have made incredible contributions on the court. Which one of the two has been the "most valuable" to his team is obviously subjective and can't be boiled down to a raw statistical analysis."

"NVE is A leader on the team. I don't know that he's THE leader. An argument could be made that Steve Nash is the heart and soul of the team. An equally compelling argument could be made that Finley is the team's emotional leader. The bottom line is, we have a number of stars willing to lay it all on the line while playing as a team. It's a beautiful thing to watch."

"Given that the Mavericks were expected at the very least to advance past the first round and given that Nick has been as responsible as any single player for the team's success in the second round (where they've previously failed), I think a compelling argument can be made for Nick as the playoffs MVP, not just the series MVP.

That said, I agree with The Kid. I really don't have a problem with either guy being considered the MVP. I just happen to be of the opinion that it's Van Exel."

"I'd rather have Dirk, and I'm sure everyone else would too. That doesn't, however, do anything to diminish Nick's contributions so far."

Notably, none of the posts you refer to were made after 5-15-03, which was the date of Game 6 against Sacramento. Thus, the San Antonio series had not yet occurred.

Funny, I don't think those statements are inconsistent with my current statements or opinions at all.

You get an A for your ability to use the search function, but an F for your reading comprehension.

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You seemed to be hung up on numbers and that is where we are different see I...wait a second we do agree remember when you said this this Friday May 14th:

I don't think the MVP should be measured solely by stats.

I think it's fair to say that the Mavericks wouldn't have beaten Portland and wouldn't be up 3-2 against Sacramento without the play of Dirk or Nick. Both have made incredible contributions on the court. Which one of the two has been the "most valuable" to his team is obviously subjective and can't be boiled down to a raw statistical analysis.

That's weird, now every word out of your mouth is 40% shooter.

Clearly, reading my comments in context above, it's easy to see that I was talking about the confidence that Nick helped to instill in the team during the Sacramento series. The discussion in THIS thread has been geared around whether Nick is a better clutch player than Dirk, Steve, or Mike -- NOT who the playoff MVP was.

In your desperate attempt to discredit me, you forgot what in the hell we were talking about.

Also, the percentage I've been throwing around is 37.5%. That's what he shot for the series against San Antonio. Pay attention.

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More Gems:

Given that the Mavericks were expected at the very least to advance past the first round and given that Nick has been as responsible as any single player for the team's success in the second round (where they've previously failed), I think a compelling argument can be made for Nick as the playoffs MVP, not just the series MVP.

That said, I agree with The Kid. I really don't have a problem with either guy being considered the MVP. I just happen to be of the opinion that it's Van Exel.

Wow!!!! You once said Nick as playoff MVP!!! It must of been a fake, did you loan out your password to somebody.

Um, no, that was me, stating my opinion at the time. And when placed in the correct time frame, that opinion was supported by facts. After the San Antonio series, my opinion changed.

People are allowed to do that, you know. Change opinions. Especially when they can support them with facts.

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BOTTOM LINE: When it was cool you were on the bandwagon, when that bangwagon drove away you hopped off, when the new bandwagon came along you hopped on it quicker then a cheap hooker on a rich trick. You are about as solid as Rosie O'Donnell's stomach.

Nope, the bottom line is that my opinions today are not inconsistent with the ones I had then. You see, when your opinions are based on logic and facts, it's a lot harder to discredit them. I wasn't on a bandwagon then, and I'm not now.

If you're going to try to call somebody out, you might want to try being RIGHT next time.

And were the hooker and trick comments really necessary? I mean, I could almost see the bitterness oozing out of them.

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To late i did I bet you wish I didn't don't you?

No, actually it was pretty amusing.

Do me a favor, though, and do a little more research next time if you're going to try and dig dirt up on me. That was pretty pathetic.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-16-2003, 04:20 AM

Im just reading, I know im right in most of what I said so I am not going to waste 5 mins replying to the crap some people reply with. There are some very intelligent posters here and some posters that like to belittle other posters. I just want to say this. I respect your some of your opinions that nash is better than nick, however, the way you respond to why nash is better than nick isnt convincing.

Once the steve nash glasses are taken off than maybe you might see that. I was just saying you cannot assume something that cant be compared. Like you cant assume nash would run the team better than nick because nick has never run this team. Nick wont average as much assists as nash because that wasnt his role on this team. Nick will shoot because nellie told him to. Yes, nick told nellie he wanted to come off the bench right when he arrived to training camp, and yes nellie said it was a relief because he had a choice to make. I dont like when people HAVE to be right and wont admit they are wrong, which I am sure someone here will do again. Stating an opinion on this board that people dont agree with should not get shot down or lead to being called in idiot or a homer. and the reason this thread became a discussion about nick is because all the hate spewing from some peoples mouths about nick.. and some people's hate for nick is just disturbing.. get some help..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

FreshJive · 10-16-2003, 05:48 AM

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I know im right in most of what I said...........I dont like when people HAVE to be right and wont admit they are wrong

[img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-16-2003, 06:22 AM

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Originally posted by: FreshJive

Quote:

I know im right in most of what I said...........I dont like when people HAVE to be right and wont admit they are wrong

[img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

most of the things i have been posting were not even facts they were basically comments towards other posters explaining that assuming one thing doesnt make it true. and a lot of things i have stated on this board are correct, look it up, watch the playoffs again. but some people on this board wont own up to the fact that they are wrong. when im wrong i come clean and say it. thats what i meant. if im wrong in any other things i have stated correct me. otherwise all the other points i have made are considered correct. And none of that, you wrong, because " I know".. or "you lose" stuff. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 10-16-2003, 09:16 AM

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Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty
Im just reading, I know im right in most of what I said so I am not going to waste 5 mins replying to the crap some people reply with.

This is another way of saying, "I don't have a substantive reply."

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There are some very intelligent posters here and some posters that like to belittle other posters. I just want to say this. I respect your some of your opinions that nash is better than nick, however, the way you respond to why nash is better than nick isnt convincing.

DFN, I don't think anything would convince you, because you don't think logically. Your best argument is that we can't know Steve is better because Nick wasn't been given the opportunity to start. That just doesn't make any sense. The REASON Steve started is BECAUSE he was better. It's not like Nick and the coaches were just stroking Steve's ego. That's not how it works.

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Once the steve nash glasses are taken off than maybe you might see that.

It's pretty sad, especially at this stage, for you to accuse someone else of being less than objective.

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I dont like when people HAVE to be right and wont admit they are wrong, which I am sure someone here will do again. Stating an opinion on this board that people dont agree with should not get shot down or lead to being called in idiot or a homer.

Actually, the reason we're still discussing this is because you won't admit you're wrong. I guess you should take your own advice.

Also, who's called you an idiot or a homer?

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and the reason this thread became a discussion about nick is because all the hate spewing from some peoples mouths about nick.. and some people's hate for nick is just disturbing.. get some help..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I suppose you're referring to Murph, so I'll let him respond, but I do have a tip for ya. Stop using the "donkey grin" smiley in every post.

Murphy3 · 10-16-2003, 09:26 AM

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and the reason this thread became a discussion about nick is because all the hate spewing from some peoples mouths about nick.. and some people's hate for nick is just disturbing.. get some help..

i definitely didn't take this thread and make it into a NVE discussion. Go back and read the thread and you'll who turned it into a NVE thread. Why would I want to turn this into a NVE thread when I spent so much time and energy collecting these stats?

And when your only comeback is "hate spewing" and "disturbing"...well, I'm pretty sure that means that you have nothing of substance to put into your reply.

It's really not worth discussing beyond this. You have thoroughly been destroyed. Why? One reason...because you wouldn't leave well enough alone after you had been hammered the first 20 times that you were responded to.

LRB · 10-16-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Once the steve nash glasses are taken off than maybe you might see that. I was just saying you cannot assume something that cant be compared. Like you cant assume nash would run the team better than nick because nick has never run this team.

I guess we can't assume that Bradley wouldn't have out performed Shaq in the allstar game because Bradley wasn't given the opportunity to play in the allstar game. I guess that we can't assume that Michael Jordan wouldn't have out performed Randy Brown on the Bulls championship teams because Randy Brown wasn't given the opportunity to start. I guess we can't assume that Adam Harrington wouldn't have out performed NVE as a sub because he wasn't given significant minutes. I guess we can't assume that NVE is a better player than me because I wasn't given a tryout by the Mavs.

All very illogical arguments IMO. Can we know absolutely 100% with no chance of error that Nash was a better starter than NVE would have been. No. But we can know 99.999% + that he is.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-16-2003, 04:48 PM

i [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]...because i dont take any of this personal. seems like some people on this board get angry and have anger management problems when it comes to posting or replying. Kg you have your opinions I have mine. I did make points, just read some of my past threads, I dont write as well as some have, but I posted some things that prove my case. No matter what I say or no matter what you say, it will go back and forth to no end. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 10-16-2003, 05:11 PM

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Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty
i [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]...because i dont take any of this personal.

I don't take it personally either.

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seems like some people on this board get angry and have anger management problems when it comes to posting or replying.

Why are you afraid to call names? Who are "some people"?

Also, why is it that there are suddenly a bunch of psychologists on this board? Anger management?

Quote:

Kg you have your opinions I have mine. I did make points, just read some of my past threads, I dont write as well as some have, but I posted some things that prove my case. No matter what I say or no matter what you say, it will go back and forth to no end. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

The only reason it "will go back and forth" is because you don't listen. You didn't "prove your case." You only supported my points with the statistics and arguments you made.

I'm all for new members (you and others) joining this board and contributing to Mavs-related discussion. But it's a bit annoying after a while when you respond time after time in a thread and it appears that you don't bother to read anything that has been said. I appreciate the fact that you've remained civil (unlike Luvubun) and haven't resorted to insults, but it'd be nice if you'd either support your points, or let the issue die.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-16-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

But it's a bit annoying after a while when you respond time after time in a thread and it appears that you don't bother to read anything that has been said.... but it'd be nice if you'd either support your points, or let the issue die.

i feel the same way. i feel as if people dont read my posts fully and think about what i write. i felt i said what needed to be said. you feel as though i was wrong and i havent proven anything. on the other hand, i feel as if i was right and i have proven some things. nothing i say will change this

and i dont name names because some people get angry, and i dont want it to come to insults. if anybody thinks im talking about them, then they know...