After watching the video, did you see the punch? - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 05-18-2006, 11:35 PM

BTW, did Terry punch Finley twice? There seems to be two different punches being thrown. Looks like one to the ribs and one to the balls.

EricaLubarsky · 05-18-2006, 11:36 PM

Ill call him Spur today and I'll call him angler on saturday

chumdawg · 05-18-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

To paraphrase Cuban "how can you punch someone when you are on back with two players on you"?

Just because you didn't put any muscle behind the punch doesn't mean that it wasn't a punch.

Indeed. And I would also submit that I don't think there are too many guys among us who would be willing to kneel above a guy who is laying on his back and let that guy take a punch at his crotch.

As an exercise, you might put open your left hand and hold it about twelve inches from your right, and then make a fist with your right hand and hit your left palm as hard as you can. I can make my left hand sting pretty good, and I'm probably not quite as strong as Terry.

chumdawg · 05-18-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I will agree that it was techinically, definitially a punch. However it was really more of a "PUNCH" in definition only as there was little or no damage done. Probably no more than if he'd completely missed.

But it looks like a punch, the video was sent in by Mike and because the NBA declares any closed hand contact as a "punch" no matter the severity of it, he's suspended. It's per the rules and Mike and the sp*rs get their advantage. Nicely done.

If the NBA had reviewed it by themselves probably no problem, but it was of no consequence until Mike decided to send his video in.

Not challenging to you, but just to get it straight, how do you know that Mike sent the video in? You're just going on what Cuban was guessing at on the Terry Show, right?

MFFL · 05-18-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I will agree that it was techinically, definitially a punch. However it was really more of a "PUNCH" in definition only as there was little or no damage done. Probably no more than if he'd completely missed.

But it looks like a punch, the video was sent in by Mike and because the NBA declares any closed hand contact as a "punch" no matter the severity of it, he's suspended. It's per the rules and Mike and the sp*rs get their advantage. Nicely done.

If the NBA had reviewed it by themselves probably no problem, but it was of no consequence until Mike decided to send his video in.

I don't think PLAYERS can send anything to the league office. I'm pretty sure the organization has to initiate it. I've heard lots of player interviews and I've never heard a player say "I'm sending a copy of that play to Stern". When they talk about a bad play it is "Just look at the tape - you'll see. Just look at the tape".

So why is Finley getting ripped for what the SPURS did? Finley was agressive on the play - probably WAAY too agressive. But he didn't make a fist for Terry. And Finley certainly didn't swing Terry's fist towards his body.

dude1394 · 05-18-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Not challenging to you, but just to get it straight, how do you know that Mike sent the video in? You're just going on what Cuban was guessing at on the Terry Show, right?

I don't...I'm just venting about it. Mike's team did so as an extension so did mike. And it doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but I really don't want to seperate the two right now.

He's a spur, the spurs sent video in to get a mav suspended. video that the league wasn't going to review, the refs weren't either. He gets a spurs wash on this one.

chumdawg · 05-18-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't...I'm just venting about it. Mike's team did so as an extension so did mike.

At this point, though, I don't even know that we can attribute that to the Spurs. Maybe the refs saw Bowen and Duncan holding back an angry Fin, heard what happened, and investigated on their own.

What is probably missing in all of this is that Terry's dumbass move, whether he truly punched the guy or not, could well have resulted in at least a foul call and maybe a flagrant foul--and doubtless WOULD have if the refs had seen it. That happens, and the Mavs go from jump ball down one, to Spurs shooting free throws and maybe getting possession.

I know the Mavs lost after all, but at the time of the action the game wasn't over yet. It would have been, though, if a ref had seen the jab.

Dtownsfinest · 05-18-2006, 11:46 PM

Well think from the Spurs point of view. What if JET would've hit that game winner last night? The Spurs would've lost by 1 point. They could've recieved 1 point on a techinical free throw shot for the punch. As far as i'm concerned the writings are on the wall for the Spurs until proven otherwise and though JET is out this team is still hell. They still have no answer for Harris or Dirk. I think the frustration fans have is that they've lost faith. They think this game is going to Game 7 and that's not the case. We don't live and die by Terry. #41 is stll out there on the court.

Dtownsfinest · 05-18-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

At this point, though, I don't even know that we can attribute that to the Spurs. Maybe the refs saw Bowen and Duncan holding back an angry Fin, heard what happened, and investigated on their own.

What is probably missing in all of this is that Terry's dumbass move, whether he truly punched the guy or not, could well have resulted in at least a foul call and maybe a flagrant foul--and doubtless WOULD have if the refs had seen it. That happens, and the Mavs go from jump ball down one, to Spurs shooting free throws and maybe getting possession.

I know the Mavs lost after all, but at the time of the action the game wasn't over yet. It would have been, though, if a ref had seen the jab.

That is what's going unnoticed about all of this. People are pissed at Finley because Terry punched him lol. How does that sound lol.

EricaLubarsky · 05-18-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Well think from the Spurs point of view. What if JET would've hit that game winner last night? The Spurs would've lost by 1 point. They could've recieved 1 point on a techinical free throw shot for the punch. As far as i'm concerned the writings are on the wall for the Spurs until proven otherwise and though JET is out this team is still hell. They still have no answer for Harris or Dirk. I think the frustration fans have is that they've lost faith. They think this game is going to Game 7 and that's not the case. We don't live and die by Terry. #41 is stll out there on the court.

after being frustrated by some of your posts, I had to give you rep for this

Tokey41 · 05-18-2006, 11:56 PM

Its not like Terry has been amazing in this series anyway... he had one great game. We can definitely beat them without Jet. Harris will cruise around the floor like a chipmunk on crack and Dirk will embaress anyone they throw at him (except Bowen... but thats what every other weapon we have is for). Would be nice if KVH would come back and you know... not foul the hell out of everyone because hes too lazy to hustle like everyone else on the court. Honestly... i'm suprised we lost yesterday and even without Terry I feel this game is ours.

It's just an unfortunate incident to have suspended him for this when there clearly have been worse incidents (Raja's clothesline was a lot more obvious and worth a suspension) but like many people have said... Bowen kicking Ray? Solid evidence of it in contrast to a very vague debateable clip of what could potentially be a punch? Simply ridiculous.

EricaLubarsky · 05-19-2006, 12:00 AM

As I said before, We blew out the Spurs by 22 points and all Terry contributed was

11 points (38% shooting), 1reb, 3ast, 1stl, 1TO, and 3PFs in 25 minutes. I find it hard to believe that we cant take up the slack

What'd we do? We used speed, execution and rebounding to overwhelm them

6 TOs (thats -8), +6 steals, +5 reb, +6 FTAs

veronicamae · 05-19-2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

No! The player's history and the situation must be taken into account. Ron Artest was suspended because he has an extensive history of erratic behavior. Jason Terry has a history of EXACTLY the OPPOSITE behavior. Therefore the situation had to be taken into account. Ginobli and Finley fall on him while trying to call time out.

BOTTOM LINE, THIS SITUATION WARRANTED A FINE AND NOTHING MORE!

GO BACK TO WHINEYVILLE, YOU CHEATER-LOVER!

cheater-lover? lmao

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

As I said before, We blew out the Spurs by 22 points and all Terry contributed was

11 points (38% shooting), 1reb, 3ast, 1stl, 1TO, and 3PFs in 25 minutes. I find it hard to believe that we cant take up the slack

What'd we do? We used speed, execution and rebounding to overwhelm them

6 TOs (thats -8), +6 steals, +5 reb, +6 FTAs

Excellent post, that's my point we are an excellent team we can win without anybody (except for dirk), trust your team.

rakesh.s · 05-19-2006, 01:09 AM

The one game we blew them out, they weren't ready for Devin Harris and his speed. They have adjusted to that at this point. They've admitted as much.

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakesh.s

The one game we blew them out, they weren't ready for Devin Harris and his speed. They have adjusted to that at this point. They've admitted as much.

we stop going to the rim, that was it, they haven't been able to stop devin so they haven't adjusted that well, they are still playing small ball as long as they only have one big(duncan) we still have the rebounding and speed edge.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

At this point, though, I don't even know that we can attribute that to the Spurs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by veronicamae

also, it was reported that the Spurs reported the incident, not Finley, so i'm baffled that all of you are trashing him like this.

Well, chum, our resident Spurs fan pretty much admitted that the Spurs sent in the tape so you'll have to ask her on this one.

P.S. Don't take my reply as Finley Bashing. If you'll look on the "Finley Jersey Burnin" Thread, you'll see I'm one of Fin's defenders. But seeing that the Spurs did in all likelihood send in the tape, I will comment and say that was a pretty pathetic move on their part (and I already explained why on that thread).

chumdawg · 05-19-2006, 01:22 AM

Eh, I don't think it was pathetic. It's kinda like what Sean Connery said in "The Untouchables": They send one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 01:26 AM

Nope, it was pathetic. They play a guy (Cheap Shot Bruce) who makes a living making plays like that, and all the Spurs do is turn the other way as Bruce time and time again walks away with nothing more than a fine. Their players perpetuate this type of play, but they take delight in trying to suspend a player from another team who does the same type of thing.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 01:27 AM

If you dish it out, at least be man enough to take it when it is dished right back out at you.

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Nope, it was pathetic. They play a guy (Cheap Shot Bruce) who makes a living making plays like that, and all the Spurs do is turn the other way as Bruce time and time again walks away with nothing more than a fine. Their players perpetuate this type of play, but they take delight in trying to suspend a player from another team who does the same type of thing.

I would do the same if we get a chance to get parker or anu ejected i will be emailing cuban every 5 minutes asking to send the tape.
winning it's not important, it's everything.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 01:47 AM

You missed the reasoning of my post. It wasn't just the fact that they tried to get him suspended (which I do think is kind of low), but it was also the fact that they don't seem to mind it at all when Bruce Bowen repeatedly pulls that kind of crap. In fact, if I didn't know any better, they seem to kind of encourage it. My feelings would be a lot different if it was any other team that sent in the tape. But seeing that it's the Spurs that did it, I have to say they are pulling the lowest of the lows.

The more I watch the replay, the more I'm beginning to wonder if Terry did indeed hit him in the nads. To me it looks like Terry hit him too high (although I can't claim one way or another on whether Fin has an abnormal anatomical structure). It could just be the camera angle, but I don't know if Terry really hit him dead on in that most sensitive of areas.

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

You missed the reasoning of my post. It wasn't just the fact that they tried to get him suspended (which I do think is kind of low), but it was also the fact that they don't seem to mind it at all when Bruce Bowen repeatedly pulls that kind of crap.

The more I watch the replay, the more I'm beginning to wonder if Terry did indeed hit him in the nads. To me it looks like Terry hit him too high (although I can't claim one way or another on whether Fin has an abnormal anatomical structure). It could just be the camera angle, but I don't know if Terry really hit him dead on in that most sensitive of areas.

Why would they mind about bowen he plays for them, i didn't mind when stack beat the utah kid or when fortson broke the hand of the rookie.
Would i mind if dirk would plaster any spurs? hell no.

I don't mind that jet hit finley, it was stupid but hey if jet wants to hit him, it's ok.
But the rule says that if you even throw a punch is a 1 game suspension, Jet knows that

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 02:08 AM

I don't like it when Danny Fortson's thuggish ass was in Dallas because I expect the players to conduct themselves with at least a semblance of class. And sorry if I don't see the Spurs' hypocrisy as awfully classy.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 02:15 AM

Speaking of Stack and Fortson, I might as well point out that those are probably among my 3 or 4 least favorite Mavericks from the last few years. Coincidence? Don't think I'm going to defend them in those instances. I don't like plays like that because I expect our players to conduct themselves with a little bit of dignity in the heat of battle. FWIW, I haven't exactly been strongly defending Terry either tonight because I can't say with a straight face that he didn't earn that suspension. I come from the Carolina school of Dean Smith, who simply wouldn't have tolerated that stuff happening under him (I do realize the slight irony in the fact that Jerry came from Carolina, but he didn't pull stuff like that while attending Carolina). Dean taught the kiddos to play hard and play with class.

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I don't like it when Danny Fortson's thuggish ass was in Dallas because I expect the players to conduct themselves with at least a semblance of class. And sorry if I don't see the Spurs' hypocrisy as awfully classy.

Neither do i but my point it's that they are doing what we would be doing if we were in the same spot.
I actually liked fortson in dallas we were a soft team at least danny put some thuggish ass in dallas.
Class alone doesn't win champs you need toughness and some punks.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 02:23 AM

All Danny did is commit fouls at a ridiculous pace and bring a big bag of nothing. I don't mind a little physical play. However, some fouls have no place inside the game of basketball. Too bad that some people don't think that basketball existed before Riley and Daly brought this ridiculous "you have to commit flagrant fouls to win" into the NBA.

Cybertx · 05-19-2006, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

All Danny did is commit fouls at a ridiculous pace and bring a big bag of nothing. I don't mind a little physical play. However, some fouls have no place inside the game of basketball. Too bad that some people don't think that basketball existed before Riley and Daly brought this ridiculous "you have to commit flagrant fouls to win" into the NBA.

I'm not talking about the past the last 10 teams that have won have had at least one thuggish.
and about danny i liked here did i want hi to stay? no he wasn't a good enough player for the mavs.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 02:46 AM

No there's a difference between physical and wreckless. Some of those teams may have had physical players, but they didn't necessarily play wrecklessly to the point where they were trying to injure guys (like Fortson did at times).

EricaLubarsky · 05-19-2006, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

No there's a different from physical and wreckless. Some of those teams may have had physical players, but they didn't necessarily play wrecklessly to the point where they were trying to injure guys (like Fortson did at times).

or Bowen

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 03:14 AM

I wonder if the NBA is going to suspend Sideshow Bob for his punch:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oQS6M2oxP...=damon%20jones

Dtownsfinest · 05-19-2006, 03:16 AM

They should suspend Damon Jones for the suit he's been wearing. That punch he took was well deserved.

Dtownsfinest · 05-19-2006, 03:17 AM

BTW, does anyone remember the year Damon Jones and Kevin Ollie were Mavs? I was just thinking about that the other day after looking at Damon Jones tiger suit. I think he started his career off as a Mav.

FINtastic · 05-19-2006, 03:19 AM

The one real thing I remember from Damon Jones is that time he was called in strictly for hack-a-shaq. If I recall correctly, it was in the second to last game of the 1999-2000 season where the Mavs beat the Lakers. Sadly, I don't remember much more from Damon Jones' Dallas days. Of course, that may be because there wasn't really much to Dallas' days as a Mav.

Just211 · 05-19-2006, 06:42 AM

I think it's just real bad luck that Terry had his hand closed. Finley was dryhumping his head, and he reacted to push him off, but his hand happened to be closed. Probably just the natural reaction, when your being gangspurred to makes fists and defend yourself.
But the Spurs are lucky, because there could be a 5 on 5 fight on the court and not one Spur would get suspended,
Becasue we all know they'd be bitch slapping like the little girl pussies they are.
Also we wouldn't know who won they fight,
because all the Spurs would be crying 5 minutes before it started anyways.

MavKikiNYC · 05-19-2006, 09:36 AM

If the topic hadn't been touched on so many times already, I'd almost want to start a poll to quantify this--

how many people saw no evidence whatsoever of a punch--certainly no suspension warranted;
how many saw evidence of something but they're not sure what--not enough evidence to suspend Terry;
how many saw Terry make conact with Fin's 'nads, but don't think it was worthy of a suspension;
how many saw clear, indisputable evidence of Terry intentionally making a fist, drawing back and forcefully contacting Fin's nether regions, and agree with the suspension.

I have had some reservations about Terry as the team's PG. Even after seeing his best performances, i still regard him as too much of a shoot-first type player, not good enough at setting up his teammates, not enough of a defender, shaky ballhandler in pressure situations. And now this--total leadership failure at the most critical point of the season. First reaction was anger with him for this level of stupidity.

But then I've looked at the available video--I've watched as Dale Hansen narrates what he claims is clear, indisputable evidence of Terry punching Fin in the groin. And by God, I still don't see it. I see something, but I absolutely don't see the type of contact (let alone the evidence of intent) that would be clear enough evidence to suspend a player in these circumstances.

Fin's not the type of player to make up an accusation like this (is he?), but Terry isn't the type of player to take a dirty shot like that (is he?). She said/ he said.

Is Pop enough of a gamesman to take a flimsy incident like this and try to create an advantage? Uhm....well, he seems to have a lot of integrity, but he didn't get 3 world championships without learning how to gain an edge.

Poor reaction from Cuban, I'd say. It will never be his way to address this substantively with the league behind-the-scenes and actually make something happen. Instead he'll come out like he did a couple of years ago against the Kings, promising that Mavs fans would exact a terrible crowd-noise revenge, and then......pfffft. Nothing.

Worst of all is the league reaction, or overreaction. Even if they see clear evidence of contact, and have clear evidence that it was malicious and intentional, not merely incidental, they have already set a very high threshhold for suspension. Whatever happened in that scrum between Finley, Terry and Ginobili, with Terry lying prone on his back and two much larger opponents making contact (probably fouling) him while going for the ball, there was NOTHING even remotely approaching what Reggie Evans did to Chris Kaman, which did NOT receive a suspension. SATIRE ALERT: Is this league basically saying that a white man's testicles have less value in this league?

I don't know enough about the legal/business structure of the NBA, but if I, as an owner, had hundreds of millions of dollars at stake in a franchise, by God, I would want a commisioner and executives who made better, more consistent decisions than this, and I would start moving to put more competent, more capable people in those positions.

The NBA is descending into an over-controlled, over-choreographed, seemingly-manipulated farce with this type of mis-management.

Time for Stern to go and take his lackey Stooge with him.

alexamenos · 05-19-2006, 10:12 AM

my take, for the record....

It's rather conclusive, IMO, that Terry deliberately punched Finley.

As I understand it, the league has a 'zero-tolerance' policy on *closed-fist* punches -- under the letter of the law, Terry gets suspsended. Terry knew, or should have known, of this policy.

it is what it is....

That said, zero-tolerance policies are invariably zero-braincell policies. Some consideration of the facts and circumstances are warranted, and some effort should be made to ensure that the punishment fits the crime.

But for the league's zero-braincell policy, I'm not sure I'd agree that Terry should be suspended for a game.

Cheers

raefformvp · 05-19-2006, 10:19 AM

If any of you think that Cuban wouldn't send in a tape if this had happened to a Mav, you are crazy. The Spurs did exactly what the Mavs would have done in this situation. It sucks that we don't have Terry for a game, but a rule is a rule. Terry broke the rule. I'm hanging my hat on the fact that miracles can happen. After Dirk went down in the 02-03 series against the Spurs, we won the next game without him. It can and will happen again. Count on it!

Nemesis · 05-19-2006, 10:24 AM

They must have sent that tape to C.S.I. Las Vegas to see whether the punch was closed or open fisted. Since they can find a person just from a reflection off the eyeball.

Murphy3 · 05-19-2006, 10:27 AM

Terry did something stupid to get him suspended. I still can't really see the punch, but so be it.

Once the Mavs have the game in hand, I would like to see Diop level Finley at the end of the game with a vicious right to the nose.