Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade?

[alby]

fail.

[Mavs Rule]

Stand pat? Pursue Kidd? Mavs are weighing options
Posted: Friday January 4, 2008 2:27PM; Updated: Friday January 4, 2008 2:52PM


Last summer's Kevin Garnett trade might not be the only blockbuster deal that could affect who plays in the 2008 NBA Finals. If Jason Kidd winds up getting traded, it could provide a similar jolt in the West. Especially if he ends up in Dallas.

The Mavs have always been aggressive when it comes to personnel decisions. They know they are contenders for the NBA title, but they also know the Spurs are still the team to beat. That's why owner Mark Cuban, general manager Donnie Nelson and coach Avery Johnson will be watching closely over the next few weeks to see if they should make a serious bid for Kidd.

"My response to [the Kidd trade rumors] is that we like our team," Nelson told SI.com.

"We're not afraid to make [a trade] if we feel it can take us to a different place ... but we're not so sure we don't already have the pieces."

Nelson's stance is revealing because the Mavs are considered by many around the league to be the most likely destination for Kidd, should the Nets decide to trade the perennial All-Star. The Lakers and Cavaliers also have been mentioned prominently, but neither appears to have the right combination of players that would interest New Jersey. Dallas could offer a package that includes a rising star in Devin Harris, along with a shooter like Jason Terry or Jerry Stackhouse, a decent big man with an expiring contract in DeSagana Diop and a future first-round draft pick.

The question for the Mavs is, Do they want to risk breaking up part of their core for the 34-year-old Kidd? Dallas has been a tough team to get a read on this season. The Mavs already have 11 losses, compared to 15 all of last season, yet for the most part they have played well against the league's elite.

Are they just pacing themselves this time around? Or is there a fundamental flaw in their makeup that will prevent them from ever winning a title? And would a hard-nosed defender and playmaker like Kidd be enough to put them over the top?

"Where we sit right now, we're all looking up at San Antonio," Nelson admitted. "We have to see what we have before we make a knee-jerk decision or reaction.

"We feel we're in a good place. Historically, we've never been afraid to make that kind of decision. But we just want to make them for known reasons."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...tes/index.html

[SeriousSummer]

The deal works if you add Trenton Hassell to it--then you might as well add Malik Allen and Darrell Armstrong from New Jersey to even the numbers out (New Jersey currently carries 14 players, so nobody must be cut if you do it):

According to RealGM, this deal works with either Terry or Stackhouse:

Harris, Hassell, Stackhouse (or Terry) & Diop (and a No. 1 pick) for Jason Kidd, Malik Allen and Darrell Armstrong.

Would you do it? Does it matter if it's Terry rather than Stackhouse?

[Robillion]

id rather give up terry AND stackhouse and the rest before giving up harris.
harris is like 24, improving verry fast. He is a future all star (i know kidd is now, but wont be for too long). i dont think dallas needs to mess with the harris/dirk/howard unless someone named kobe or lebron is in the mix

[u2sarajevo]

crack kills

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

crack kills

i say that whenever someone is bent over and i can see their butt crack. gets a chuckle sometimes, try it out. the other way usually isnt that funny though.

[skylive321]

Originally Posted by Robillion

i say that whenever someone is bent over and i can see their butt crack. gets a chuckle sometimes, try it out. the other way usually isnt that funny though.

Check mate and match.. gotta give u props. That cracked me up

[Robillion]

haha, thanks... btw i got you in the other thread. hehe. But seriously.

I would love Kidd here... but worth moving harris plus everyone else mentioned? ehhhhhh i dont know.

[skylive321]

Originally Posted by Robillion

haha, thanks... btw i got you in the other thread. hehe. But seriously.

I would love Kidd here... but worth moving harris plus everyone else mentioned? ehhhhhh i dont know.

no, prob.. i got u right back.. lol

[horse900703]

I dont think it will happen

[Dirkadirkastan]

^^That is an awesomely over the top sig.

[guntfighter]

Id give up Nick Fazekas for him.

[skylive321]

Jason Kidd: Agent Requests Trade
The agent for Kidd has asked Nets president Rod Thorn to trade his client to a contender before next month's trade deadline, according to several league officials, the Newark Star-Ledger reports.
Thorn would not comment about the trade request, but it may be hard for him to get equal value for Kidd. "Right now things are going very poorly for us," Thorn said, without specifically addressing the Kidd conundrum. "Historically, those are the times when you don't get offered what you might consider fair deals. And sometimes you feel that maybe you should do something to do something, but those are the times you have to be very cognizant and careful about what the results of your actions might be."

[skylive321]

Silence speaks volumes as Kidd seeks a trade
Sunday, January 27, 2008
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff
MINNEAPOLIS -- Jason Kidd doesn't want to work here anymore.

The foundation of the Nets' franchise throughout this decade won't come right out and say it, nor does he have to, because he has an agent who can say it for him.
And that agent, Jeff Schwartz, recently asked Nets president Rod Thorn to move his client to a contender before next month's trade deadline, according to several league officials who cannot be identified without betraying confidences.

Thorn would not comment when asked about the request, but it is becoming increasingly clear he may not be able to grant it even if he wanted to.

The primary reason: The Nets are extremely vulnerable now, and they have learned that they cannot get anything close to resembling a fair deal for a 34-year-old point guard making $20 million, even if he is still capable of performing on a Hall of Fame level.

"Right now things are going very poorly for us," Thorn said, without specifically addressing the Kidd conundrum. "Historically, those are the times when you don't get offered what you might consider fair deals. And sometimes you feel that maybe you should do something to do something, but those are the times you have to be very cognizant and careful about what the results of your actions might be."

Various general managers around the league said this past week that Thorn is handcuffed by roster and payroll circumstances.

He cannot trade Vince Carter, because the 31-year-old former All-Star has just signed a long-term deal valued at $62 million and is currently underperforming. Thorn also cannot afford to be without Richard Jefferson, who will be part of the nucleus going into the post-Kidd transition stage. And the team cannot get a fair return for its young front-court players, who are on their rookie contracts.

That leaves Kidd as the most viable trading chip, even though it would probably result in an irrevocable shift in philosophy, style and long-term planning.

One could easily argue, however, that any team with an eight-game losing streak -- one that is two losses away from falling into 13th place in the Eastern Conference as it lines up against the Minnesota Timberwolves tonight -- is due for some kind of demolition anyway.

Kidd seems to sense that this is inevitable, and he has dropped clues about his confidence in the team's future from time to time. From his "no-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel" speech in November, to his "this-is-who-we-are" decree 10 days ago, you didn't need a rhetorical scholar to articulate the subtext: This is as good as the Nets are going to be, he was saying, loudly and clearly.

In this case, however, he actually might have understated the message: The Nets look like a 18-25 team that hasn't bottomed out yet.
And the best point guard of his generation feels he is entitled to something better.

"That's the message we're getting," said one NBA head coach, who asked not to be identified so as not to compound the Nets' problems. "You just have to watch him, but we hear that he wants out, and we have all heard that he wants to play for a contender.

"But you know, I've seen that same body language get a triple-double."

That doesn't resolve Thorn's chief problem if he actually wants to pursue a trade. According to his peers, Thorn is likely to get nothing that approximates Kidd's value to the Nets -- only expiring contracts belonging to expendable veterans and lottery-protected draft picks.

The last time Kidd was being shopped around -- last February -- Thorn couldn't find a single deal that included a young talent that could be a part of the Nets' foundation, as the Lakers wisely refused to put Andrew Bynum on the table.

One year later, the Nets are in the same situation they face year after year: Their stars aren't as consistent as they are paid to be. And the most alarming sign has emerged during this road trip, where Kidd has had several performances that were well below his All-Star standard, getting outplayed by the likes of Sam Cassell, Steve Nash, Mike Bibby, and Baron Davis.

"He's tired of what the team has become, and it shows," said one friend of Kidd's, remaining anonymous so as not to be critical of the Nets' captain. "And I doubt even an extension would make him happy at this point."

The Nets' refusal to give Kidd an extension for the 2009-10 season led to his first publicly expressed doubts about the team's future in November. According to Kidd's friend, there have been no discussions of an extension since then.

When asked what management should do, Kidd responded with his usual, practiced casualness Friday night in Denver: "You got to play with the guys you have here. We got to find out a way to win with the group we have, and management will have to do what management has to do at the end of the day."

http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index....l=1&thispage=2

[chumdawg]

It's narrow-minded thinking that says the Nets won't get a fair deal for Kidd. They will get a fair deal for Kidd, if they put him on the open market and take the best offer. Now, they may not like it, but it will be a fair deal. He is worth EXACTLY what he brings in trade, and not a penny more.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It's narrow-minded thinking that says the Nets won't get a fair deal for Kidd. They will get a fair deal for Kidd, if they put him on the open market and take the best offer. Now, they may not like it, but it will be a fair deal. He is worth EXACTLY what he brings in trade, and not a penny more.

An interesting economist's perspective on things. I like it.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Nets open to trading Kidd
Monday, January 28, 2008
BY AL IANNAZZONE

MINNEAPOLIS -- Jason Kidd is unhappy and wants to be traded to a contender. The Nets may grant him his wish.

A league source with knowledge of the situation said the Nets are exploring all options to move the point guard and have been granted permission by ownership to trade him.

Finding the right deal is the hard part, but the Nets are exploring numerous scenarios. Some include more than two teams that would "gut the franchise," one source said. The Nets are expected to be one of the most active teams leading up to the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

One scenario would have Kidd returning to Dallas, where he started his career, and probably would include another team. The Nets, the source said, would get Devean George, DeSagana Diop and draft picks. Jerry Stackhouse may have to be added to make it work financially, but there likely is more involved.

Nets president Rod Thorn said nothing is close to happening, but he and special assistant Kiki Vandeweghe have been working the phones. The Mavericks, Lakers, Nuggets and Cavaliers have the most interest in Kidd, who wouldn't mind returning to the Western Conference.

The Nets also are gauging the interest level in Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson. Kidd has the greatest value, though, because title contenders think he could get them over the hump.

"At the end of the day I would be surprised if he wasn't moved," said one Eastern Conference official. "Of Kidd, Carter and Jefferson, Kidd's the easiest one to move."

Still another official guess-timated the chances of Kidd being traded were about "20 percent."

Earlier in the day, Kidd denied a report that he instructed his agent to seek a trade and Thorn wouldn't comment on the story.

"I don't have any comment about players," Thorn said. "We talk to players, talk to other teams, those conversations as far as I'm concerned are privileged conversations."

People close to Thorn, however, said he's grown tired of Kidd, who didn't seem that broken up over the Nets' ninth consecutive loss Sunday night.

Kidd hasn't been happy since the Nets followed their franchise-best matching start of 4-1 with six consecutive losses. He also is upset that the Nets didn't extend his contract.

In December, Kidd missed a game against the Knicks because of what the Nets called a migraine. But sources inside and outside of the organization contend it was a staged protest to try and get the extension.

Kidd, whose current deal expires after next season, was seeking a one-year extension in the $13 million to $15 million range. Now that the season is half over, a source close to the player, says Kidd no longer wants one year tacked on, but is seeking a two-year extension.

The Nets aren't going to do that. He would be 38 when that deal would expire and the Nets aren't convinced Kidd will be an elite player still at that age.
One NBA source said at least one player went to Thorn after the December incident and suggested the Nets move Kidd because he doesn't want to be here. Thorn, however, denied that.

The Nets seemed to recover, winning seven of eight games during one stretch. But one official called that "a Band-Aid." The Nets' leader has given off signals that he doesn't want to be on the team, which affects everyone.

Calls to Kidd's agent Jeff Schwartz were not returned.

"I have no idea where that came from," Kidd said of the report he wanted to be traded. "Not to my knowledge has Jeff asked for a trade or anything like that.

"Yeah, I want to be here. We're in a hole right now. We're just trying to find a way to get out of it. Whatever someone speculated that Jeff said that goes with losing. That's just the way it goes sometimes."

The Nets often play without energy and passion and there appears to be an overall malaise on the court and in the locker room.

"Something is going to happen," one Nets' source said, "good or bad."

Link

[jthig32]

Please. As if anyone believes they'll trade him for that pile of nothing.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Wow Kidd for Diop, George and picks, MAYBE EVEN STACKHOUSE!! Sign me up and do the electric boogie. Never will happen but hey, one can dream.

[muzak]

that would be one hell of deal....for us. surely they'd want Harris.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by muzak

that would be one hell of deal....for us. surely they'd want Harris.

They won´t get him.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

I wouldn´t like Stack as filler in any trade. He is probably the vocal leader of the team and therefore important for the team chemistry.

I would give them Van Horn´s expiring contract as filler.

[horse900703]

Sure, J kidd~~

[Windmill360]

TRADE TALKS NOT JUST KIDD’S PLAY

By FRED KERBER

January 28, 2008 -- MINNEAPOLIS - Deal or no deal. Flip a coin.

The NetsNew Jersey Nets have been listening to and gauging offers for Jason KiddJason Kidd - actually for everybody on the roster - for some time. And regardless of the climate of team or player, there's no way to measure the outcome.

Talk About It On The Nets Blog

Kidd himself has not asked for a trade - which may only be a matter of semantics - but he clearly wants to play with a contender and has little use for the Nets as presently constituted. While the situation might seem beyond repair, it doesn't mean Kidd definitely will be traded. Team president Rod Thorn, though, acknowledged an increase in talks.

"At this point of the year, there's more talk because you're closer to the trade deadline," Thorn said, adding it is "impossible to say" whether his team will stay intact.

One source claimed that, "now there is no 'good' deal to be made for him, the best to hope for is an average deal," likely expiring contracts and picks.

Kidd has been unhappy for much of the season. He asked for and was denied a $13 million contract extension earlier which led to the notorious "migraine" game of Dec. 5. Kidd called in with a migraine and skipped a home game against the KnicksNew York Knicks . A team exec said he was "on strike" at the time.

Despite the rocky recent history, it doesn't mean he can't be placated by winning and an extension. Of course, there's always the chance the U.S. will colonize the moon by October.

Thorn admitted any deal, whether for Kidd, Vince Carter or Richard Jefferson, becomes more difficult daily. The Nets are not dealing from strength. And the large contracts are trade killers. Still, Thorn will not give Kidd away.

"It makes it tougher," Thorn admitted about trades. "The combination of the team playing poorly and the perception we must do something does make it tougher."

Kidd denied a report yesterday stating his agent asked for a trade although several persons claiming knowledge of the situation said agent Jeff Schwartz made the pitch two weeks ago. Kidd has told management he would not resist a deal to a contender, sources said.

"I have no idea where that came from," Kidd said. "I haven't talked to Jeff since we're traveling, so to my knowledge there hasn't been a (trade) request."

Thorn declined comment on the trade request, but was more revealing when asked if he felt his players were content to stay Nets.

"Am I convinced that all of my players want to be here? I think how they perform on the court indicates whether that is true or not true," Thorn said.

Suffice to say, Kidd has looked disinterested at times, despite 11 triple doubles and a starting spot on the All-Star team. So the team plods along, fielding offers, proposing others.

Kidd said he wants to stay in New Jersey, that it can work out - "Yeah, I want to be here," he offered. But he said that in the past. There are clearly conflicting lines of thought around the team. Some in the organization feel Kidd can be placated with more pieces added around him and a contract extension - "a lot is about money," one source said. Others feel a split is inevitable.

The offers have been garbage and Thorn can be as stubborn as Truman about getting want he wants. Last year, in talks with the Lakers he wanted Andrew Bynum and would not budge unless the young center was included.

He wasn't. No deal.

Kidd later said it was "unfortunate" that no deal was made as red flags appeared everywhere.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008...964.htm?page=1

[ddh33]

I'm not giving Devin for him.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by ddh33

I'm not giving Devin for him.

Amen. I'm proud to say I was the first one to say it in this thread. Harris is not on the table for Kidd, in any way.

[MFFL]

That doesn't resolve Thorn's chief problem if he actually wants to pursue a trade. According to his peers, Thorn is likely to get nothing that approximates Kidd's value to the Nets -- only expiring contracts belonging to expendable veterans and lottery-protected draft picks.

The last time Kidd was being shopped around -- last February -- Thorn couldn't find a single deal that included a young talent that could be a part of the Nets' foundation, as the Lakers wisely refused to put Andrew Bynum on the table.

I doubt that the Mavs will have to trade anything of real value to get Kidd or Carter. Nobody is offering ANYTHING for either so why would we?

[me770706]

new jersey should stop being foolish and part ways with carter. kidd and jefferson are studs, carter is an uninspired talent. id pair him with josh boone and try to land p. gasol or another premier big man

[AxdemxO]

So idk wht to think on this. i def think Kidd would help us. But idk boout giving up Harris. So I guess I am indifferent on this part. A lot of people have been down on Jet as usual, but Id rather send Harris and have Kidd and Jet because his offense. Harris has improved but with him and Kidd at the point our offense would be kinda of questionable from that spot. And I have all along supported Damp and liked him here. So I dont wanna see either Jet or Damp go. But lets say it happens heres how it would work. We would get Kidd in this deal and I believe save money, Jet and Damp haters would be happy. Personally I am not sure I would do it, in fact I dont think i wuld

wht do you guys think of this ????????
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...~6~6&te=&cash=

[BGMaverick9]

This seems like a two-team race to me: Lakers and Dallas.

[Mavs Rule]

You can't move Harris in any deal for Kidd. We would have no starting point in two years. Can't sacrafice the entire franchise's future for one and a half good years.

I don't like moving Diop either, but I would do it, along with George and Stack to get Kidd.

[dalmations202]

I don't get all the Kidd talk. Would he be an upgrade, yes. Would the upgrade be significant, no - IMO.

I mean Dallas needs to upgrade the SG -- or move JHo to SG, and upgrade the SF or they need to upgrade the C to a 2-way instead of one -way player(s).

If Devin grades out as a 80 right now, and JKidd a 90 you gain 10.
If EJones grades out as a 60 right now, and you can find a 80 you gain 20.
Why are people enamored with bringing JKidd here?

[MavsX]

i like pictures

[AxdemxO]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...~6~6&te=&cash=

[G-Man]

NJ needs to get youth, talent and/or picks, and these trades show the Mavs offering neither.

Chum's misplaced faith in the market aside, overpaid, aging superstars never trade for their full value. He only has value to a team that thinks he's the missing piece. The Lakers need him far more than we do. But they don't have much to offer.

If I'm NJ, I want JJ as a possible diamond in the rough, Terry because he can score and has a reasonable contract ... I have no idea why they' want George, I'd I'd hate to part with Diop. Stack? I'm sorry, nothing in this trade proposal makes any sense to me. But Kidd's value drops with every passing day, and this is their best chance to get something for him. But except for LA, none of the contenders need an old PG. Not really sure we need him. Not really sure he'd help us more than Diop. We have 3 servicible PG's, and that would leave us mighty thin at center. Imagine facing the Lakers with only Damp at 7ft back there.

Now VC at 2...

[AxdemxO]

I could care less if a deal happens...VC wouldnt be bad for us either

But think about Kidd playing with Lebron...IMO last year for the Cavs was a fluke....and Lebron cant lead a team to a championship by himself just like Kobe...but imagine either having Kdd to run the show...thats a scary thought

[ddh33]

Depending on what you're giving, Jason Kidd would be a huge upgrade.

Trade Devin, and I actually think you take a step back. But Jason Kidd does bring a lot of things to this team that the Mavs need.

[jthig32]

From Hollinger's article today on under rated players:



Devin Harris, Mavericks
Harris is out for the next couple of weeks with a bone bruise on his ankle, but he has put together a strong season as the Dallas point man, scoring 18.9 points per 40 minutes on a 59.2 TS%.

His play has been strong enough, in fact, that I'd like to throw out a heretical thought for you Mavs fans contemplating a Harris-and-change-for-Kidd trade: What makes you think having Kidd would be better?

Harris has a much better PER this season and wasn't much behind Kidd in 2005-06 (last season Kidd had a sizable edge, though). While Kidd is a great defender against big guards, Harris is vastly superior against the quick guards -- Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, etc. -- the Mavs are likely to be matching up against in the playoffs. Additionally, Kidd shoots 36.9 percent from the floor and 34.3 percent from 3, while Harris is at 48.3 percent and 35.7 percent from 3 … so whom would you rather have spacing the floor for Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard?

Kidd's major advantage over Harris is that he's an awesome defensive rebounder, but the Mavs already rank eighth in defensive rebound rate -- how much can he really improve that number? And to get those rebounds, they're giving up the whopping 6.8 points per 40 minutes advantage Harris has, not to mention picking up some extra turnovers (Kidd has been wildly turnover-prone, in what is one of the season's most underreported stories). And finally, remember that Dallas is one of the league's slowest-paced teams … so whom would Kidd be running with?

If I were Dallas, I'd make sure I remembered I'm not trading for what Kidd did over the past decade, but what he'll give me in the next three months … which I'm not convinced exceeds what Harris will do.

[AxdemxO]

Good argument...like i said i could care less wht happens...If a trade goes down OK, if it doesnt OK

[Dirkenstien]

We should definitely not trade Harris in this deal. If we can nab Kidd for any of the rumored deals not involving Harris or Howard, however, then yes we need to make that trade happen.

I think Kidd would be a great mentor for Harris, and together they would make a lethal one-two pg combination.