The Obama Boom.

[Mavdog]

no, I'm saying that there was and is no law that says a lender must give loans to people that cannot possibly pay the loan back.

there was no "pressure" to give loans to people who were not capable of paying off the loan, the decision to give people loans was done solely by those who gave the loan, who approved the borrower.

the only law and the only pressure applied was to have lenders give loans to people who had never been allowed to borrow previously, and it is inaccurate and dishonest to say that all of those people, who were lower income and predominately minority, were not capable of paying the loans off.

you and I are qualified to borrow certain amounts, but we are not qualified to borrow unlimited amounts.

there's a huge difference.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, I'm saying that there was and is no law that says a lender must give loans to people that cannot possibly pay the loan back.

there was no "pressure" to give loans to people who were not capable of paying off the loan, the decision to give people loans was done solely by those who gave the loan, who approved the borrower.

the only law and the only pressure applied was to have lenders give loans to people who had never been allowed to borrow previously, and it is inaccurate and dishonest to say that all of those people, who were lower income and predominately minority, were not capable of paying the loans off.

you and I are qualified to borrow certain amounts, but we are not qualified to borrow unlimited amounts.

there's a huge difference.

Clearly your view is clouded by your own view of the world...as is mine.

Personally, I believe it is dishonest not to report about the mob mentality pressure that groups such as ACORN put on these banks to lend money.

As a concept, lending that money appeared to be a good idea, but in practice the groups who pressured the banks did not truly understand the consequences of their actions.

The pressures are no different than when a court case is settled out of court. Typically some party does not want to drag something through a trial, in many cases some corporate entity does not want the negative publicity that would come from a trial.

Take the current AIG situation. The negative publicity is overwhelming, and it appears UNjustified, provided we dig a little deeper.

So think of that negative publicity threat as a weapon, a tool for groups like ACORN to use.

They launched a campaign and went after various lending institutions, who on the front end believed it to be a cost savings to hand out the loan rather than to stand up to the public scrutiny of a percieved ratial bias.

They thought these ACORN folks would go away, but instead they kept coming and before you know it...the banking institution is in a crisis.

Where's ACORN now when the banks need bailed out? Oh wait, they are trying to keep those same individuals from getting foreclosed on and evicted from their homes.

Somehow these people keep supporting ACORN, when they are the victims of a very crooked organization.

ACORN simply uses the emotions of needy people to gain their own power. ACORN is perhaps the modern era of the KKK or the MOB or any other crime organization.

No you will never see any written laws, but we have seen clearly that the tactics taken have ultimately caused the downfall of the U.S. economy. As long as people and politicians ignore the problem, they will only serve to fuel the consequences.

If we want to turn this country around, then we need to put a stop to ACORN and other radical groups like them...they remind me of a young terrorist radical group...seems to me that Hitler and the NAZI started off the same way as ACORN and OBAMA.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Clearly your view is clouded by your own view of the world...as is mine.

as for my "view", it is based on facts and study of the situation.

No you will never see any written laws, but we have seen clearly that the tactics taken have ultimately caused the downfall of the U.S. economy. As long as people and politicians ignore the problem, they will only serve to fuel the consequences.

no, as long as lenders do not follow sound lending practices in underwriting the loans which are given they put their institutions, and our economy, at risk. that is the root, that is the cause, of our current crisis.

If we want to turn this country around, then we need to put a stop to ACORN and other radical groups like them...they remind me of a young terrorist radical group...seems to me that Hitler and the NAZI started off the same way as ACORN and OBAMA.

you do not have a very sound grasp of how hitler and his henchmen "started off". hitler and his followers attempted a coup when they "started off".

groups such as acorn who use protests to send out their message are utilizing a very american way, a way that has provided both positive and negative consequences through our nation's history. the right to protest is how our country was conceived (does concord and lexington, the boston tea party, ring a bell) and how many positive changes have been brought (freedom riders, the march in montgomery and sit ins for equal rights for example).

if "we put a stop to acorn" then we will also need to put a stop to all other public protests, and that is a slippery slope that should not be done.

there is ample ways for the truth to be told, and for everyone to be informed, trust in an open society and the free press.

do not trust in limitations on the people's right of free expression.

[dalmations202]

Indian Lore

The tribal wisdom of the Dakota Indians, passed down from generation to generation, says "When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount."

The Federal government employs more advanced strategies:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
4. Arranging to visit other countries to see how other cultures ride
horses.
5. Lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included.
6. Reclassifying the dead horse as living impaired.
7. Hiring outside contractors to ride the dead horse.
8. Harnessing several dead horses together to increase speed.
9. Providing additional funding and/or training to increase dead horse's performance.
10. Doing a productivity study to see if lighter riders would improve
the dead horse's performance.
11. Declaring that as the dead horse does not have to be fed, it is less
costly, carries lower overhead and therefore contributes substantially more to the bottom line of the economy than live horses.
12. Rewriting the expected performance requirements for all horses.

And my personal favorite...........

13. Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory position.

[dude1394]

Ka-boom.....

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/78237/

WELL, IT’S CHANGE: Worst Unemployment in 25 Years. “In his first three months as president, Barack Obama has oveseen a net job loss of nearly 2 million jobs. No president since Herbert Hoover has overseen a net job loss on his watch. At this rate, 30 million jobs could be lost by the time this guy is through.

[Mavdog]

pretty selective parsing of the stats dude....

during 2008, 3.078 million workers lost their jobs. that's during bush's term btw.

so far, excluding Jan 2009 (remember obama wasn't in office until the end of that month), 1.919 million workers have been let go this year.

as we're only into the obama presidency for less than 4 months, it's absurd to claim that we have any idea of what the "net job loss..on his watch" will be. there are over 3.5 years left of "his watch", and it could just as easily be a net job gain, not loss, by the time obama's current term ends in jan 2013.

[dude1394]

Could be...but I doubt it. His "stimulus" won't create anything significant until the end of this year (shovels in the ground and all that) and by then we'll have cap-n-trade taxes, higher income taxes, probably higher inflation.

We'll see...by next years congressional elections...he'd better be turning it around I expect.

[dude1394]

With the new jobless numbers coming out...time to re-post the "stiumulus" in action.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/9009
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/SAMS/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-12.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/SAMS/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-13.jpg[/IMG]

Now as a deputized agent for oversight on this critical recovery program I can report that the stimulus job creation program is an abysmal failure. The following graph (click to enlarge) shows the status for those 6 federal entities I have been tracking as of 4/28/09:

I have been tracking the flow of money (or lack of therein) from weekly status reports provided by the government organizations. The first set of columns show the amount budgeted to the 5 departments and NASA. The second set of columns shows how much money as been allocated (obligated) to actual projects or programs. The final columns (if they could be seen) show the money disbursed into the economy.
3 months into the stimulus job creation effort the amount of money out the door verses allocated for these 6 entities is 0.03%:

[dude1394]

Ah the Barry plan...Right on schedule....
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../05/023539.php

Such concrete projections--unfortunately for Obama--can be checked. Geoff at Innocent Bystander has begun charting reality against Obamanomics, with this graph:

Oopss...this would have been WITHOUT his plan. In other words...he's bought plenty of votes, but no jobs brotha'.

[chumdawg]

Wow, that looks extremely convincing.

[mary]

graphs are cool

reading is better

It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant
margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical
package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental
uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic
relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly
in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the
current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity.

[dude1394]

So let me get this straight. Barry has a graph in his request for 800billion bucks, claiming that if we don't let him spend it unemployment will be 9 instead of 8.5....moving down to ~7 in Q3 and because he puts a disclaimer in there then that's peachy keeno?

It's one thing to not hit it "exactly" it's quite another to miss the whole damn target. All this shows is that he's borrowed 800billion bucks for nothing(except for vote-buying). His program is supposed to increase employment by 4 million(table 1), turns out it's not going to increase diddly. Again except votes.

[mary]

"He" doesn't put a disclaimer in there, the economic researchers do...because that is the nature of making economic forecasts. They're not "concrete projections". Its got nothing to do with politics.

Besides that, its only May and unemployment usually lags recovery - and we're probably not in recovery yet.

Besides that, its two data points.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So let me get this straight. Barry has a graph in his request for 800billion bucks, claiming that if we don't let him spend it unemployment will be 9 instead of 8.5....moving down to ~7 in Q3 and because he puts a disclaimer in there then that's peachy keeno?

It's one thing to not hit it "exactly" it's quite another to miss the whole damn target. All this shows is that he's borrowed 800billion bucks for nothing(except for vote-buying). His program is supposed to increase employment by 4 million(table 1), turns out it's not going to increase diddly. Again except votes.

your numbers are off, according to the projections used at the time without any of the additional funding unemployment would increase to over 9%, with the package unemployment would be about 2 pts lower. that translates to a couple million jobs.

of course, these are only projections- calculated as a look into the future- which can vary.

iow the unemployment could have grown into the double digit area, or it could have been less.

one thing that is pretty obvious to most of us, doing nothing would be the wrong approach. as the actions towards the financial firms has proven, doing something brings a measure of security to the marketplace and puts a stop to the downward pressure that feeds upon itself.

the policies of the obama administration have at the least righted the ship in the near term, and the bleeding has stopped for the most part. although the partisan criticism shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, those who can remove their blinders should give a few props for this result.

the key will be in a couple of quarters, the focus is on 4Q 09 and 1Q 2010. if the economy begins to expand then the obama policies can be seen as hugely successful and the cost of this unprecedented intervention into the private sector can be unwound with minimal costs to you and I, the taxpayers.

for if there had been no action taken the costs would have been much, much greater to all of us.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ka-boom.....

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/78237/

Right...like all this unemployment is due to what Obama has done since January, and nothing to do with the policies of the previous eight years.

[dude1394]

Didn't say it has. All I know is that he got YOU to give him 800billion dollars with a credit card and he's spent about oh 6% of what was an EMERGENCY!!! The sky is falling, give me the power I will HEAL us!!!

Nope...he'll direct this money to his own political pet projects under the guise of an emergency. No one ever said he wasn't a good politician. The recovery is obama's...how's he doing so far??

[92bDad]

[dude1394]

The Barry Vote Stimulus Plan in action.

Green Shoots bustin' out all over

Tim Cavanaugh | May 21, 2009, 9:05pm
From the rising of the sun until the going down thereof, the benefits of the economic rescue packages bring forth savory fruits in rightwiseness abundantly. Sing their praises:
Unemployment claims set a record, again!


Stocks, dollar, treasuries fall on concerns over U.S. creditworthiness!! *



Congressional Budget Office sees unemployment rising for at least another year!!!


Thirty-fourth bank failure of the year!!!!


Real estate rental market takes a beating that is somewhat less brutal than special enhanced beating suffered by sales market!!!!!

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

that's kind of funny

[dude1394]

Grovey...In a little more that 100 days it looks like Barry is going to drop our bond rating below AAA. Since I don't know anything about finance..this does not sound like a good thing.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner committed to cutting the budget deficit as concern about deteriorating U.S. creditworthiness deepened, and ascribed a sell-off in Treasuries to prospects for an economic recovery.

“It’s very important that this Congress and this president put in place policies that will bring those deficits down to a sustainable level over the medium term,” Geithner said in an interview with Bloomberg Television yesterday. He added that the target is reducing the gap to about 3 percent of gross domestic product, from a projected 12.9 percent this year.

The dollar extended declines today after Treasuries and American stocks slumped on concern the U.S. government’s debt rating may at some point be lowered. Bill Gross, the co-chief investment officer of Pacific Investment Management Co., said the U.S. “eventually” will lose its AAA grade.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Grovey...In a little more that 100 days it looks like Barry is going to drop our bond rating below AAA. Since I don't know anything about finance..this does not sound like a good thing.

[/B]

more on the loss of that triple-a rating--> link

for what it's worth, if anyone is waiting for some massive alarm to sound before they start to imagine that careening towards becoming a 3rd world banana republic country on the northern side of S. America.....

....welll.....the alarms just aren't going to get any louder than this.

[dude1394]

From the article.

How can one justify bestowing a triple A rating on an entity with an accumulated negative net worth of more than $11,000bn (€8,000bn, £7,000bn) and additional off-balance sheet obligations of $45,000bn? An entity that is set to run a $1,800bn-plus deficit for the current year and trillion dollar-plus deficits for years to come?

[dude1394]

May 23rd, 2009 at 5:19 pm by Cranky


J

[dude1394]

Businesses going Galt. What a disaster this group is.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/going-g...last-summer/2/

Starting in June and all the way through to Election Day, Pelosi, Obama, and Reid — but especially presidential nominee Obama — told the country that they were ready, willing, and would soon be able to punitively tax the 5% of the nation’s most productive so they could redistribute money to everyone else. Enough high producers to make a difference believed them and abandoned their previous guarded optimism.


In September, the decades-in-the-making, Democratic Party-driven housing and mortgage lending mess came to a head at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Washington then allowed itself to be blackmailed into a series of financial sector and other bailouts that appeared to be, and have turned out to be, seemingly endless. Enough high producers to make a difference headed for the lifeboats and abandoned what little optimism remained.


Enough high producers to make a difference abandoned their spring optimism, not because of then-current economic conditions, which were at worst mediocre. They did so because of their assessments of what economic conditions would be in the not-too-distant future, based on the perilous pronouncements of Pelosi, Obama, and Reid. Many of those who didn’t catch on during the summer did so after observing the reckless September-October actions of the Washington establishment.


As a result, they took steps that businesspeople, entrepreneurs, and investors ordinarily take when a serious recession takes hold — not hiring, not expanding, letting people go and not replacing them, making worn-out equipment last longer instead of buying new, and others — before the serious recession took hold. They deliberately downsized in response to stated promises by powerful government officials Pelosi, Obama, and Reid to penalize and punish them and the economy as a whole, if and when they gained power.


In other words, enough high producers to make a difference preemptively “went Galt.”
Their perfectly logical and understandable reactions have caused the recession to be much deeper than it could or should have been. The “going Galt” phenomenon and the recession itself have also sent federal receipts into a frightening free fall. The following graphic includes March’s actual receipts and my estimated results for April (detailed here):

I estimate that April 2009’s receipts will be about $250 billion instead of last year’s $407 billion. A final result as low as $220 billion would not surprise me a bit.


This collections slowdown is far worse than anything seen in 2001 or 2002. If it continues, in combination with a current Washington spending spree that may be unrivaled in human history, the federal government’s fiscal 2009 deficit could top $2 trillion — far worse than the Congressional Budget Office’s current estimate of “only” $1.845 trillion.

Maybe, just maybe, if this administration and Congress would decide that economic growth is more important than environmental purity, class warfare, and de facto government takeovers of large corporations, those who have “gone Galt” might come in from the wilderness. Does anyone think that Pelosi, Obama, and Reid are up to doing what it takes to make that happen?

[Mavdog]

wow. startling news....business cuts back on employment and production when demand for goods and services shrinks, resulting in higher unemployment and lower profits that reduces federal tax collections.

this has absolutely nothing to do with any proposed changes in the tax rates on the highest income earners made by obama.

it has everything to do with a business recession however, and the attempt to apply blame for that recession 6 months retroactively to the obama administration taking office is ludicrous at best, and dishonest at the least.

[dude1394]

Wow...startling news...President and leaders of congress have no culpability in anything, nor the ability to effect anything. Off the hook baby...

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Wow...startling news...President and leaders of congress have no culpability in anything, nor the ability to effect anything. Off the hook baby...

odd position for you to take.

wait, you're being sarcastic aren't you?

ok, let's take a look at who should have "culpability" for the economic situation that began (according to your posted chart) around july 2008.

would that be the candidates for president who had no involvement in the administration residing in office at that time?

no, not to anybody with an objective view. these people would look at the players who actually were involved with decisions that created the pricing bubble, such as the fed, the people in the white house at that time, the lenders, the securities dealers and yes the borrowers who made imprudent decisions about what things were worth.

those with a preordained agendas might see it differently tho....

[dude1394]

The Barry "stimulus" continues to work about as effectively as expected. But he did "save" 25 jobs in ohio.

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. unemployment rate jumped to a 26-year high of 9.4% in May as 345,000 payroll jobs were lost, the Labor Department reported Friday.
The decline in payrolls was the smallest since September, and much lower than the 500,000 expected by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. See Economic Calendar.
Investors greeted the smaller-than-forecast drop in nonfarm payrolls, sending stock futures sharply higher. See Indications.

[dude1394]

I posted in the wrong thread. Reposted here so the stimulus in all it's glory can be captured. And so the wondrous stimulus effect of Barry's policies can be tracked.

[quote=dude1394;1005286]The stimulus plan at work. What a cluster. Extra trillions in long term spending and no stimulus. As they say...never waste a good crisis and oh boy they didn't. Stimulus my a**.

In any case, here is the new number for May: 9.4%, which is 0.2% higher than we had shown in the chart from a few days ago:*

[dude1394]

Wow..this dude will say anything.. With "stimulus" and acceleration like this, heaven help us.

What a stroker...

WASHINGTON (AP) - Eager to show action on the ailing economy, President Barack Obama promised Monday to speed federal money into hundreds of public works projects this summer,

Surrounded by his Cabinet, Obama emphasized what has become a dominant issue of public concern—an economy that keeps bleeding jobs—on the day after returning from a week of diplomacy and sightseeing in the Middle East and Europe.




He concentrated in his remarks on the billions of dollars from a taxpayer-funded plan that will be disbursed this summer, although much what he was described was already in the works, spurring new debate about just how much the $787 billion stimulus plan is helping so far.



"We've done more than ever, faster than ever, more responsibility than ever, to get the gears of the economy moving again," Obama said.



Based on the work done across a broad spectrum of federal agencies during the first 100 days of the administration, Obama said, "we're in a position to really accelerate."

[92bDad]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20...g/affk5skijh5s

[dude1394]

Nice stimulus Barry..

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
People who still have jobs are faring worse than at any time since the Great Depression, a USA TODAY analysis of employment data found. Furloughs, pay cuts and reduced hours are taking a toll on workers who so far have escaped job cuts.


The employed worked fewer hours in May — an average of just 33.1 hours a week — than at any time since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began counting in 1964. Part-time work is at a record high. Overtime is at a record low.


The magnitude of job losses — 6 million jobs gone, a 9.4% unemployment rate — has overshadowed the groundbreaking nature of the nation's employment troubles, especially the financial decline of those still working.


"You can rip a whole chapter out of your Economics 101 textbook because the job market isn't behaving the way we were taught," says David Rosenberg, chief economist at money manager Gluskin Sheff and Associates.
Even working people have less to spend.

[dude1394]

By God Barry IS causing a boom...I'm sure this is NOT the only guvment boom going on.

While businesses across the country are cutting back, members of the House saw their own office budgets increase by an average of 7 percent between 2008 and 2009.

House officials say the increase is because of — not in spite of — the nation’s economic woes.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...xzz0ItQOPgUE&C

[dude1394]

The Barry Boom continues unabated.

WASHINGTON – Employers cut a larger-than-expected 467,000 jobs in June, driving the unemployment rate up to a 26-year high of 9.5 percent, suggesting that the economy's road to recovery will be bumpy.


The Labor Department report, released Thursday, showed that even as the recession flashes signs of easing, companies likely will want to keep a lid on costs and be wary of hiring until they feel certain the economy is on solid ground.


June's payroll reductions were deeper than the 363,000 that economists expected and average weekly earnings dropped to the lowest level in nearly a year.


However, the rise in the unemployment rate from 9.4 percent in May wasn't as sharp as the expected 9.6 percent. Still, many economists predict the jobless rate will hit 10 percent this year, and keep rising into next year, before falling back.


All told, 14.7 million people were unemployed in June.
If laid-off workers who have given up looking for new jobs or have settled for part-time work are included, the unemployment rate would have been 16.5 percent in June, the highest on records dating to 1994.

[Mavdog]

well, if you're going to point to short term data, I'll do the same...here's positive news on the economy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. stocks climbed, extending gains from the best quarter for the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index since 1998, as improving measures of manufacturing and home sales added to evidence that the worst of the recession is over. Crude oil fell, while gold gained the most in a week.

“People see these as leading indicators,” Michael Binger, a Minneapolis-based fund manager at Thrivent Asset Management, said of the ISM and housing data. Thrivent oversees about $60 billion. “If they feel both these areas have bottomed and have a chance of resuming growth, that’s good for the market.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=aqD7w.zdxh64#

[dude1394]

Thank you, he needs some support.

[dude1394]

Barry's stimulus plan, in pictures. Hopefully the economy has turned the corner (funny...without spending any of the trillion bucks??? go figure).

Oh Frabjous Day!! Unemployment Rate Increases by Only 0.1%!! July 2, 2009

Posted by geoff in News.
trackback Finally. Finally the slowing of the unemployment rate increase has arrived. We’ve been waiting for months for unemployment to show signs of topping out, and it looks like it may be happening at last.
The unemployment rate for June only went up 0.1%; much less than in previous months, and finally deviating from the near-linear increase we’ve seen since last year.

Is it the stimulus finally taking effect? The natural recovery of the economy? Just an anomaly?
Whatever. Tomorrow I’ll dissect it. Today I’ll just enjoy it (though it appears at first glance that the rate increased so slowly because a number of people dropped out of the labor market).
[It is assumed that by now this chart is self-explanatory. If not, delving into the posts over the past 3 months will tell you more than you need to know about the chart's pedigree.]

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Barry's stimulus plan, in pictures. Hopefully the economy has turned the corner (funny...without spending any of the trillion bucks??? go figure).

but dude in the other thread you are complaining "they spent a trilling bucks for nothing".

nothing like inconsistency...

[dude1394]

Heh!!

July 02, 2009

Obama Stimulus Plan Saves or Creates 467,000 More Jobs

Oh, wait...did I say "saves or creates," as in, the imaginary voodoo number crunching the Obama Administration mistakes for "measuring job creation?"

[dude1394]

Barry's katrina. Heh..
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/...bamas-katrina/

The economy is shaping up to be Barack Obama's Katrina. If President George W. Bush was blamed for his slow response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005 -- there was plenty of blame to go around, of course, but the disaster was on Bush's watch--then Obama will get the blame for his slow response to the current recession. The difference, of course, is that Katrina afflicted a city and a few states, while the recession afflicts the whole country.


Unemployment is 9.5 percent and rising fast, certain to go higher than 10 percent. And what is the federal government doing about it? Not much. And so House Republican Leader John Boehner makes a good point when he asks, "Where are the jobs?"


On Sunday, Vice President Joe Biden said that the Obama administration had "misread" the economic indicators. So what are they likely to do about it? More of the same--which is to say, not much.
The problem the Democrats have--and come to think of it, the country has it, too--is that even if you want to build something, you can't do it. That is, you can't do it without plowing through years' worth of lawyers and environmental-impact-statement-writers, nor without enduring endless hearings and lawsuits where every last NIMBY gets a whack at the project. And so even before this terrible recession, America's capacity actually to build anything--build a highway, build a bullet train, build a power plant -- had been crippled.