So, who do you want to go forward with?

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Good riddance... I really like Kaman as a person, but he might be the worst fit I've ever seen next to Dirk - he made me pine for the days of Erick Dampier (and I was never a fan of Damp).

Oh yeah, seeing that on Twitter made me all happy inside. I agree, seems like a really good guy, just doesnt fit with Dirk on the floor. And he would never accept back up role

[Melonhead]

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...s-opt-contract

Well, Mayo is opting out according to espn

Edit: Personally dont think he wants long term with the mavs

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Rumors still going on of Kaman to Blazers. @KJ_NBA twitter guy

Speaking of Blazers they did an absolutely Tanktastic job down the stretch.
Lost their last 13! games, which is pretty tough to do even if you are banged up. Somehow managed to jump Philly and Toronto in the lottery. Nice work.

Anyway I find this Kaman business odd. Rumors of him going to Blazers already? The season ended yesterday.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...s-opt-contract

Well, Mayo is opting out according to espn

Edit: Personally dont think he wants long term with the mavs

You may or may not be a page behind homie!

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...s-opt-contract

Well, Mayo is opting out according to espn

Edit: Personally dont think he wants long term with the mavs

You may or may not be a page behind homie!

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

He's easily not. Parsons is getting like 700-800K, and signed for 3 more years after that.

Rookie contract's are another story...but still, I'd rather have Carter and what he has brought to this team. The veteran leadership through bringing it night in and night out. Everyone thought he was washed up and even I thought it to be a bad deal at the time, but he has proven me and a lot of people wrong. He has been nothing short of a steal for this team.

The Mavs have something good to build off of with Dirk, Marion and Carter. Add James, Crowder and Cunningham. Then hopefully Wright. Now they can attack free agency and the draft to build with/around that. Unfortunately or fortunately, they have a great idea of what does and does not work with Carlisle or the current roster, most namely, Dirk.

[j0Shi]

I'm torn on Mayo. His ceiling is surely a better JET, but I think you would have to overpay potential at this point.

In the end he was a below-average player on a lottery roster this season. From 47 shooting guards that played at least 500 minutes against playoff competition, Mayo ranks 44th in points per possession. That's ouch.

http://share.rocktha.net/show.php?ID...1b6254f2234029

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I'm torn on Mayo. His ceiling is surely a better JET, but I think you would have to overpay potential at this point.

In the end he was a below-average player on a lottery roster this season. From 47 shooting guards that played at least 500 minutes against playoff competition, Mayo ranks 44th in points per possession. That's ouch.

http://share.rocktha.net/show.php?ID...1b6254f2234029

The only way I see his ceiling being higher than jets is because he is taller, that is IT. He doesn't have the handles, the innate bball skill, the cajones, the IQ or the personality of Jet. Jet >>>>> Mayo.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The only way I see his ceiling being higher than jets is because he is taller, that is IT. He doesn't have the handles, the innate bball skill, the cajones, the IQ or the personality of Jet. Jet >>>>> Mayo.

Don't know if I'd necessarily call him better, but compared to Jet's numbers last year with us vs Mayo's this years, the stats are almost exactly the same. Of course those stats were earned over different circumstances (winning seasons are looked back upon with rose colored glasses), but Terry was just about as inconsistent as Mayo. If you compare their numbers at equal points in their careers, Jet was much better in his 4th season than Mayo's been this year. Of course, also take into consideration they were playing very different roles with their respective teams.

Would it be worth a gamble to see if he can improve? Only on the cheap. I really wouldn't go longer/higher than 3/15 mil. Essentially what Terry was asking for, but OJ's youth gives him a better chance of being productive over those next 3 years. Even then, he's got to still be hanging around pretty late in FA as even that offer is contingent on the draft and what we can put at PG and C.

[vcmavs25]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The only way I see his ceiling being higher than jets is because he is taller, that is IT. He doesn't have the handles, the innate bball skill, the cajones, the IQ or the personality of Jet. Jet >>>>> Mayo.

Rep please don't bring mayo back.

[Lestat_1795]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

(winning seasons are looked back upon with rose colored glasses), but Terry was just about as inconsistent as Mayo.

It's not just winning seasons, it's a championship.
Terry is Mavs royalty forever.

And even without rose colored glasses:
Terry=clutch, OJ isn't!

[FreshJive]

"Jet's numbers last year with us vs Mayo's this years"

LOL. That pretty much sums it up. Jet was half assing it. Mayo was trying to reinvent himself with a recommended coach. Let this guy walk if he isn't cheap.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Lestat_1795

It's not just winning seasons, it's a championship.
Terry is Mavs royalty forever.

And even without rose colored glasses:
Terry=clutch, OJ isn't!

Terry wasn't all that clutch without a PG of merit. When he played with Devin Harris, his clutch TS% was nothing to write home about.

[Underdog]

Everyone loved Jason Terry... Except for when they didn't:


It's time for Jason Terry to be on the bench...

Terry's comments

Jason Terry is a fraud

The Jason Terry sucks club

Its time for Jason Terry to shut up, own up to his mistakes, and just play

Rick n Jason brick Terry suck!!!

Jason Terry's empty bag

Jason Terry must be traded!

Jason Terry needs to go

Jason Terry BLOWS

What the heck happened to Jason Terry?

How about Terry for Larry Hughes

Jason Terry doesn't show up in the playoffs....

Etc...

I love JET, but the revisionist history needs to stop.

[Bayliss]

Speaking of Terry:

03-15-2012, 09:12 AM
And my response:

The way you are playing this year, hopefully one of those 29 teams will take you.

Boy did the Celtics get the short end of the stick on him. Of course we are saying the same thing about Mayo.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Speaking of Terry:



Boy did the Celtics get the short end of the stick on him. Of course we are saying the same thing about Mayo.

Not exactly the same (years left on respective deals).

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Everyone loved Jason Terry... Except for when they didn't:


It's time for Jason Terry to be on the bench...

Terry's comments

Jason Terry is a fraud

The Jason Terry sucks club

Its time for Jason Terry to shut up, own up to his mistakes, and just play

Rick n Jason brick Terry suck!!!

Jason Terry's empty bag

Jason Terry must be traded!

Jason Terry needs to go

Jason Terry BLOWS

What the heck happened to Jason Terry?

How about Terry for Larry Hughes

Jason Terry doesn't show up in the playoffs....

Etc...

I love JET, but the revisionist history needs to stop.

Its funny, Ive always had a love/hate relationship with Terry. He went to straight legend status after the playoffs. Most clutch man in history. Whole career was revised in a matter of minutes. Not to rag on him..I love that dude.

[G-Man]

Can you imagine Game 6 in the NBA Finals, and Dirk spends the 1st half throwing up bricks, and OJ Mayo puts the team on his back and scores 19? Terry's value here was always more than his stats. Teams that beat us in the playoffs often did so by lettiing Dirk get his and throwing the kitchen sink at Jet...that was Popovich's prescription. The Dirk-Jet 4th quarter 2 man game was as good a way to end a game as any team had in the last decade.

But as they say, that ship has sailed. I see Mayo as a kid who hasn't finished growing up. RC was hard on him because he sees the potential. I have no problem with him coming back, because of the upside.

I see Collison as a good backup PG, and I fear keeping Wright will be prohibitively expensive. I'm done waiting on Roddy.

Time for Nellie II to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Everyone loved Jason Terry... Except for when they didn't:


It's time for Jason Terry to be on the bench...

Terry's comments

Jason Terry is a fraud

The Jason Terry sucks club

Its time for Jason Terry to shut up, own up to his mistakes, and just play

Rick n Jason brick Terry suck!!!

Jason Terry's empty bag

Jason Terry must be traded!

Jason Terry needs to go

Jason Terry BLOWS

What the heck happened to Jason Terry?

How about Terry for Larry Hughes

Jason Terry doesn't show up in the playoffs....

Etc...

I love JET, but the revisionist history needs to stop.

I was one of the people who didnt always love Jason Terry. Oj Mayo is not on Jason Terry's level.

[twelli]

Terry had heart and fire. Don't see that in Mayo.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by twelli

Terry had heart and fire. Don't see that in Mayo.

Meh. Terry likes to showboat, Mayo is more stoic. Really, they are more or less very similar in overall impact. Whether or not a player occasionally delivers in a the clutch IMHO has less overall importance than their consistency across the season. Terry built up his reputation over 8 seasons with the Mavs. His first he averaged 12.4 PPG, 5.4 APG, and 1.8 TO. We're trying to compare a guy who went 8 seasons and generated a fair bit of nostalgia to a guy we signed on a 1 year. I loved jet while he was here. But the season would've been the same if he were here this year (maybe worse actually) plus we'd be stuck with another aging vet at the tail of his career. I'd much rather have Mayo on the type of deal Terry was asking for, or any number of younger SG options. I don't mean to belittle the SG's importance, but as long as we have a Dirk-centric team, there's no real need for a hot shot SG on the team. PG and C and much more important.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Meh. Terry likes to showboat, Mayo is more stoic. Really, they are more or less very similar in overall impact. Whether or not a player occasionally delivers in a the clutch IMHO has less overall importance than their consistency across the season. Terry built up his reputation over 8 seasons with the Mavs. His first he averaged 12.4 PPG, 5.4 APG, and 1.8 TO. We're trying to compare a guy who went 8 seasons and generated a fair bit of nostalgia to a guy we signed on a 1 year. I loved jet while he was here. But the season would've been the same if he were here this year (maybe worse actually) plus we'd be stuck with another aging vet at the tail of his career. I'd much rather have Mayo on the type of deal Terry was asking for, or any number of younger SG options. I don't mean to belittle the SG's importance, but as long as we have a Dirk-centric team, there's no real need for a hot shot SG on the team. PG and C and much more important.

People tend to forget that JET wasn't known as a "clutch player" in his first few years here - that's something he developed later. Sure, Dirk and Terry have always had an excellent two-man game, but crunch time execution is mostly based on team chemistry. It's probably no coincidence that his reputation for clutchness emerged when Jason Kidd arrived... How many clutch shots has he made in Boston?

I can't help but think that a lot of OJ's struggles in crunch time stem from the fact that this team never had an opportunity to develop chemistry because Dirk missed 27 games. Not that Mayo has ever been known for his clutchness, but he was also never known as a liability.

A good point guard and a solid training camp could go a long way in fixing what's wrong with OJ's game...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

People tend to forget that JET wasn't known as a "clutch player" in his first few years here - that's something he developed later. Sure, Dirk and Terry have always had an excellent two-man game, but crunch time execution is mostly based on team chemistry. It's probably no coincidence that his reputation for clutchness emerged when Jason Kidd arrived... How many clutch shots has he made in Boston?

I can't help but think that a lot of OJ's struggles in crunch time stem from the fact that this team never had an opportunity to develop chemistry because Dirk missed 27 games. Not that Mayo has ever been known for his clutchness, but he was also never known as a liability.

A good point guard and a solid training camp could go a long way in fixing what's wrong with OJ's game...

My main issue with Mayo is a bit bigger than 4th quarter clutchness. He often didn't show up at all in critical games against good teams. There was a six game losing streak at the end of December where he basically just mailed it in minus the Denver game. And he wasn't exactly great in that game, either (and it was still a loss). He would often shrink when the pressure mounted which is fairly alarming imo. Can't he become mentally tougher? I suppose, but it is still a risk to keep him.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My main issue with Mayo is a bit bigger than 4th quarter clutchness. He often didn't show up at all in critical games against good teams. There was a six game losing streak at the end of December where he basically just mailed it in minus the Denver game. And he wasn't exactly great in that game, either (and it was still a loss). He would often shrink when the pressure mounted which is fairly alarming imo. Can't he become mentally tougher? I suppose, but it is still a risk to keep him.

I would say the risk is only based on his FA worth. He's pretty effective in his position, but maybe not the perfect fit for the Mavs. I mean, let's not forget our lack of guard/SF depth forced Carter to play double duty and Mayo to play more minutes than he was really effective all season long. With a stronger starting point guard and backup shooting guard or development from Crowder allowing Carter to solely play SG off the bench, Mayo could look completely different next year if he returns to the team. If he was forced to earn his time on the floor and had a longer term stake in the team's success, perhaps he'd played harder.

All that said, I'm not in love with him. He can walk and I won't be upset at all. Like I said, we just need someone effective at the 2 guard, not a hot shot. There's plenty of guys who can play that role on the cheap. Shoot, I'd be OK starting Carter and having someone greener or even a rookie coming off the bench. Spend the money at PG and C.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

I would say the risk is only based on his FA worth. He's pretty effective in his position, but maybe not the perfect fit for the Mavs. I mean, let's not forget our lack of guard/SF depth forced Carter to play double duty and Mayo to play more minutes than he was really effective all season long. With a stronger starting point guard and backup shooting guard or development from Crowder allowing Carter to solely play SG off the bench, Mayo could look completely different next year if he returns to the team. If he was forced to earn his time on the floor and had a longer term stake in the team's success, perhaps he'd played harder.

All that said, I'm not in love with him. He can walk and I won't be upset at all. Like I said, we just need someone effective at the 2 guard, not a hot shot. There's plenty of guys who can play that role on the cheap. Shoot, I'd be OK starting Carter and having someone greener or even a rookie coming off the bench. Spend the money at PG and C.

I'm glad you mentioned Carter as a starter. While it's clearly not the target idea and he is a damn fine 6th man, I think under certain circumstances it would be fine.

He is capable of doing many things and one that he does really well is get others involved. He knows how to use the PnR with Dirk and know how to get him the ball. He's an excellent passer and still decent at penetration and finishing.

We have two other more pressing issues to deal with in PG and Center. So if we spent a lot on those two and picked up a nice role player SG (Tony Allen or better)or an up and coming SG to come in off the bench I'd be ok with that. It really doesn't matter imo who starts there as much as who is finishing, effectively.

He has kept his body in shape and I was impressed with how fit he was this season. He looked much lighter and I hope that trend continues. He plays good defense and draws a lot of charges. He's getting so good at it that he is getting a reputation with the refs as such and it's nice to have. The only knock defensively I have on him is that he tends to sag off his man allowing the draw and kick to his man wide open for the 3 too often.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

All that said, I'm not in love with him. He can walk and I won't be upset at all. Like I said, we just need someone effective at the 2 guard, not a hot shot. There's plenty of guys who can play that role on the cheap. Shoot, I'd be OK starting Carter and having someone greener or even a rookie coming off the bench. Spend the money at PG and C.

I feel the same way about OJ... He could be a solid starter on a contender (possibly even a borderline All-Star if he worked hard enough), but shooting guard has never been a position of priority on a Dirk-centric team. Point guard and center are definitely where you want to spend your money (even post-Dirk, from a fundamental perspective).

If he came back for the right price, sure I'd be happy to have Mayo back. But like you said, we already have Vince Carter... Plus, decent shooting guards are a dime a dozen in this league.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm glad you mentioned Carter as a starter. While it's clearly not the target idea and he is a damn fine 6th man, I think under certain circumstances it would be fine.

He is capable of doing many things and one that he does really well is get others involved. He knows how to use the PnR with Dirk and know how to get him the ball. He's an excellent passer and still decent at penetration and finishing.

We have two other more pressing issues to deal with in PG and Center. So if we spent a lot on those two and picked up a nice role player SG (Tony Allen or better)or an up and coming SG to come in off the bench I'd be ok with that. It really doesn't matter imo who starts there as much as who is finishing, effectively.

He has kept his body in shape and I was impressed with how fit he was this season. He looked much lighter and I hope that trend continues. He plays good defense and draws a lot of charges. He's getting so good at it that he is getting a reputation with the refs as such and it's nice to have. The only knock defensively I have on him is that he tends to sag off his man allowing the draw and kick to his man wide open for the 3 too often.

Also, pretty sure he tied or beat his career season record shooting the 3. Other than seeing Dirk largely return to greatness, Carter (and Marion, though that was expected) was the highlight in an otherwise mediocre season.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Also, pretty sure he tied or beat his career season record shooting the 3. Other than seeing Dirk largely return to greatness, Carter (and Marion, though that was expected) was the highlight in an otherwise mediocre season.

Dirk-Marion-Carter were definitely the highlights of this season, but I also like what we saw from Wright and our two rookies who earned playtime, Jae Crowder and Bernard James.

We definitely have a lot of holes to fill on this roster, but it's good to see a solid mix of youth and veteran talent going forward.

[Melonhead]

Would rather have carter as the backup solely because he'd have more freedom on the offensive side with shooting and driving.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Would rather have carter as the backup solely because he'd have more freedom on the offensive side with shooting and driving.

Yea, that's cool too. Especially if we had (a)Tony Allen, who isn't too impressive offensively but he knowshow to play and can slow down opposing guards/forwards. Then we bring in VC for the 2nd unit offensive pop. I'm just suggesting that since PG and C are priority number 1, VC is a more than adequate primary SG or starter if we needed to roll that way.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, that's cool too. Especially if we had (a)Tony Allen, who isn't too impressive offensively but he knowshow to play and can slow down opposing guards/forwards. Then we bring in VC for the 2nd unit offensive pop. I'm just suggesting that since PG and C are priority number 1, VC is a more than adequate primary SG or starter if we needed to roll that way.

Kinda like how we used Terry/Stevenson? Yeah, how'd that work out for us?

Oh, wait...

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, that's cool too. Especially if we had (a)Tony Allen, who isn't too impressive offensively but he knowshow to play and can slow down opposing guards/forwards. Then we bring in VC for the 2nd unit offensive pop. I'm just suggesting that since PG and C are priority number 1, VC is a more than adequate primary SG or starter if we needed to roll that way.

Yeah I agree. PG and C main priorities. If a starting SG doesnt come along, I think we'd manage with VC as starter.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, that's cool too. Especially if we had (a)Tony Allen, who isn't too impressive offensively but he knowshow to play and can slow down opposing guards/forwards. Then we bring in VC for the 2nd unit offensive pop. I'm just suggesting that since PG and C are priority number 1, VC is a more than adequate primary SG or starter if we needed to roll that way.

I think Tony Allen would be a great fit.

[mcsluggo]

if you could take the whole Mavs team minus Dirk and trade it for the entire roster of another NBA team, minus their best player

(so, for instance keep dirk, and trade the whole rest of the mavs for the entire Heat roster, except Lebron... would you do it?)

with which teams would you NOT do this trade?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Yeah I agree. PG and C main priorities. If a starting SG doesnt come along, I think we'd manage with VC as starter.

What do you want out of your starting SG?

Do you want to try to follow the "formula" for roles that the Mavs had in 2011?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

What do you want out of your starting SG?

Do you want to try to follow the "formula" for roles that the Mavs had in 2011?

An intelligent play maker who can pass, shoot and defend. That's it.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

if you could take the whole Mavs team minus Dirk and trade it for the entire roster of another NBA team, minus their best player

(so, for instance keep dirk, and trade the whole rest of the mavs for the entire Heat roster, except Lebron... would you do it?)

with which teams would you NOT do this trade?

Pretty fascinating question here. The latter one, in particular.

[dude1394]

Yea interesting. But at the moment I'm not sure i can think of another team I wouldn't do that with.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

if you could take the whole Mavs team minus Dirk and trade it for the entire roster of another NBA team, minus their best player

(so, for instance keep dirk, and trade the whole rest of the mavs for the entire Heat roster, except Lebron... would you do it?)

with which teams would you NOT do this trade?

Clippers (even if you omit CP as the best, you still get Griffin and Bledsoe, Odom would be immediately demoted to towel boy) and Spurs (hard not to drool at all the young talent that team has) would be high on that list. Lakers and Heat would be low on that list.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

An intelligent play maker who can pass, shoot and defend. That's it.

I just saw an interesting stat. We tied for 6th place in assist rate last season. I'm not entirely sure passing was really the issue this year. And while OJ was by no means elite, I thought he was a pretty good defender. Shooting was all over the map though...