GDT: Game 71 - Clippers (45-22) at Mavs (41-29) 5:30pm TNT/FSSW - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 10:27 AM

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Brunson has no special physical abilities, he's not super quick or athletic. He's not a deadeye shooter or a lockdown defender. He's just a nice solid backup point guard - a good 7th or 8th man on a contending team

This is such a disingenuous argument, it's hard to even respond. You know who has no special physical abilities and isn't a lockdown defender? Dirk and Luka. You know who isn't a dead-eye shooter? Luka Doncic.

You know what Brunson is really solid with? Decision making. Solid defense. Rebounding. Running a team as a stabilizing leader. And he was actually really solid in draft workouts in terms of physical assets, but you want to harp on the fact that he's not a jitterbug.

Then you decide to stretch a somewhat plausible setup that he's not amazing in any physical category to immediately arguing that he's a 7th or 8th guy. I honestly don't get it. You decide that one stat (PER) and some eye test of physical abilities (separate from actual draft workouts) to make that assessment?

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Regardless, he was playing less than 18 minutes a game - just 2 minutes more a game than Jackson and nobody thinks Jackson is special

Lets come back to this argument, because your logic is so flawed. He plays the same number of minutes that Jackson plays and Jackson isn't special so Brunson isn't special? I'm not even sure what to say to someone who legitimately thinks that that logic holds.

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Why this board overrates him is beyond me

You're so overly critical of a guy who is efficiently producing that of course everyone else on the board "overrates him". Dear lord, it's been a while since I've seen a group of posters like you and Dallas41 trash on a productive player so much with so few actually legitimate stats-- particularly for a guy who has only played under 150 NBA games. It's frankly comical.

Want to see some stats that aren't skewed by his relatively low minutes?
General stats
4th in defensive rating
3rd in net rating
3rd in Assist%
3rd in assists per 100 possessions (only Luka and veteran Barea do better)

Clutch stats
3rd in clutch points
3rd in clutch FG%
3rd in clutch 3pt%
3rd in FT%
6th in clutch rebounding (as a PG, he's an outstanding rebounder)
2nd in clutch assists
4th in clutch +/- (after Luka, Seth, and Maxi)
7th in clutch rebound % (and only guard in the top7)
4th in clutch eFG%

But sure trash on the guy for his low minutes. Want to know what we need? Clutch scoring, secondary playmaker, and defense. Want to know what Brunson is best at? Clutch scoring, secondary playmaking, and defense.

I mean, he improved his 3pt shooting, his FT shooting, his rebounding and assists per minute, his clutch performances, even shot 43% from three in February before he went down, but less than two seasons in, he's a disappointment.

Dallas41 · 08-09-2020, 11:31 AM

Lol

I can't believe a guy like Brunson is getting this attention.

Someone mentioned his ceiling being D.Fisher if he reaches that level great for him but keep in mind none of us ever really raved about D.Fisher doing the course of his career.

So what's all the fuss over Brunson

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 11:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Dallas41

Lol

I can't believe a guy like Brunson is getting this attention.

Someone mentioned his ceiling being D.Fisher if he reaches that level great for him but keep in mind none of us ever really raved about D.Fisher doing the course of his career.

So what's all the fuss over Brunson

The fuss is people like you and MFFL shitting on him.

I think he at least deserves to be defended.

MFFL · 08-09-2020, 11:42 AM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Want to see some stats that aren't skewed by his relatively low minutes?
General stats
4th in defensive rating
3rd in net rating
3rd in Assist%
3rd in assists per 100 possessions (only Luka and veteran Barea do better)

Clutch stats
3rd in clutch points
3rd in clutch FG%
3rd in clutch 3pt%
3rd in FT%
6th in clutch rebounding (as a PG, he's an outstanding rebounder)
2nd in clutch assists
4th in clutch +/- (after Luka, Seth, and Maxi)
7th in clutch rebound % (and only guard in the top7)
4th in clutch eFG%

But sure trash on the guy for his low minutes. Want to know what we need? Clutch scoring, secondary playmaker, and defense. Want to know what Brunson is best at? Clutch scoring, secondary playmaking, and defense.

I mean, he improved his 3pt shooting, his FT shooting, his rebounding and assists per minute, his clutch performances, even shot 43% from three in February before he went down, but less than two seasons in, he's a disappointment.

WOW

Obviously Brunson is massively underrated by everyone. Including the coach. The guy who sees him every day in practice and every day in games only plays him the 9th most minutes on the team. Seems like Carlisle would value clutch scoring, secondary playmaking, and defense but I guess you see something that coach doesn't. Congrats

L. Doncic*SG 33.9
K. Porzingis*PF 31.8
D. Finney-Smith*SF 30.1
T. Hardaway Jr.*SG 29.4
D. Powell*C 26.5
M. Kleber*PF 25.8
S. Curry*SG 24.6
T. Burke*PG** 23.4
D. Wright*PG 21.5
J. Brunson*PG 17.9

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by MFFL

WOW

Obviously Brunson is massively underrated by everyone. Including the coach. The guy who sees him every day in practice and every day in games only plays him the 9th most minutes on the team. Seems like Carlisle would value clutch scoring, secondary playmaking, and defense but I guess you see something that coach doesn't. Congrats

L. Doncic*SG 33.9
K. Porzingis*PF 31.8
D. Finney-Smith*SF 30.1
T. Hardaway Jr.*SG 29.4
D. Powell*C 26.5
M. Kleber*PF 25.8
S. Curry*SG 24.6
T. Burke*PG** 23.4
D. Wright*PG 21.5
J. Brunson*PG 17.9

What stat are you even posting? Maybe consider label your units or actually reading what I said and responding.

Also Rick did see what I was saying. His minutes were steadily going up prior to the injury. It's just you who thinks Brunson is subpar.

MFFL · 08-09-2020, 11:44 AM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The fuss is people like you and MFFL shitting on him.

I think he at least deserves to be defended.

I said he's just a nice solid backup point guard - a good 7th or 8th man on a contending team

How is that shitting on him

MFFL · 08-09-2020, 11:45 AM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What stat are you even posting? Maybe label your units

Well considering that I was talking about minutes per game, then you could infer that I posted the minutes per game stat

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 11:50 AM

Let me get your argument straight

1) The coach is infallible
2) the coach plays THJ more than Brunson
3) Therefore THJ is better tan Brunson
4) Anyone who questions the coach is a moron

MFFL · 08-09-2020, 11:55 AM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Man, get over yourself. I'm supposed to read your mind on some bullshit stat that you just made up.

ESPN stats

Not made up

I've only mentioned 2 stats and they both came from ESPN

MPG is an indication on how valuable you seen by the coaching staff in consideration of winning games. The more valuable you are the more you play. If you play about half the minutes you are either an older vet who cannot handle more minutes consistently or you are a role player. Seeing how you are an expert on the NBA I would think you would know that

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

ESPN stats

Not made up

I've only mentioned 2 stats and they both came from ESPN

MPG is an indication on how valuable you seen by the coaching staff in consideration of winning games. The more valuable you are the more you play. If you play about half the minutes you are either an older vet who cannot handle more minutes consistently or you are a role player. Seeing how you are an expert on the NBA I would think you would know that

See my edit

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

ESPN stats

Not made up

I've only mentioned 2 stats and they both came from ESPN

MPG is an indication on how valuable you seen by the coaching staff in consideration of winning games. The more valuable you are the more you play. If you play about half the minutes you are either an older vet who cannot handle more minutes consistently or you are a role player. Seeing how you are an expert on the NBA I would think you would know that

Let me get your argument straight

1) The coach is infallible
2) the coach plays THJ more than Brunson
3) Therefore THJ is better than Brunson
4) Ignore all other stats
5) Anyone who questions the coach is a moron*

*except when you do it.

It's a super stretch to use minutes per game played and then directly arguing that that is a better assessment of skill than all the advanced stats that I provided and that you forgot to even mention.

MFFL · 08-09-2020, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Let me get your argument straight

1) The coach is infallible
2) the coach plays THJ more than Brunson
3) Therefore THJ is better tan Brunson
4) Anyone who questions the coach is a moron

Throwing the straw man arguments out there but I'll play

1) Carlisle has won an NBA title as a coach
2) yes
3) one of two things a-THJ is better at his role than Brunson or b-THJ's role is more valuable than Brunson's
4) see point number 1. While I disagree with Carlisle occasionally I know that he knows more about the NBA and he has reasons for doing what he does

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Throwing the straw man arguments out there but I'll play

1) Carlisle has won an NBA title as a coach
2) yes
3) one of two things a-THJ is better at his role than Brunson or b-THJ's role is more valuable than Brunson's
4) see point number 1. While I disagree with Carlisle occasionally I know that he knows more about the NBA and he has reasons for doing what he does

1) You and 90% of D-M.com shit all over Carlisle all the time but now you are using Rick as infallible.

2) You're literally creating a strawman by even thinking that I disagree with Rick. I don't. I'd love to know what strawman you think I'm actually committing. I've been pretty consistent with the argument that he's a top 4-5 talent, but you're putting words in my mouth if you think I ever argued he should play 30+ mpg.

3) How on god's earth are you equating MPG with skill ? You're essentially throwing out every other stat out there and every stat I [provided and saying that the only thing that matters is MPG, because Rick is infallible and Rick gave him 17 mpg (23 in Feb) despite, you know, matchups lineup, and positions, and 100 other things you don't seem to understand. Just listen to yourself there. MPG is more important than other stats because Rick is a god so when he gives Boban a DNP, it means Boban is not even NBA quality while THJ is a star starter, because THJ consistently gets 30min while Boban has had 31 DNPs.

I'm done with this argument, but just know that if you ever question Rick, I'm going to bring this up. It is such a bullshit argument that even you must know it.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-09-2020, 02:40 PM

The team is full of Brunsons, like him or hate him. What the Mavs lack is a reliable third best player on a team full of 4th best players.

SMC0007 · 08-09-2020, 03:15 PM

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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The team is full of Brunsons, like him or hate him. What the Mavs lack is a reliable third best player on a team full of 4th best players.

Good juan

EricaLubarsky · 08-09-2020, 03:47 PM

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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The team is full of Brunsons, like him or hate him. What the Mavs lack is a reliable third best player on a team full of 4th best players.

I don't even think we need a third star. A workable 3/D guy who can play SG/SF in the mid first round and maybe a big/fast/long combo-forward and we could have a really nice rotation once Brunson returns. Maybe re-sign THJ/WCS or maybe not.

This is a team with a system (Doncic IS our system) and pieces to fill in it. This isn't a team that needs more stars (although I wouldn't reject them if someone came begging)

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-09-2020, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't even think we need a third star. A workable 3/D guy who can play SG/SF in the mid first round and maybe a big/fast/long combo-forward and we could have a really nice rotation once Brunson returns. Maybe re-sign THJ/WCS or maybe not.

This is a team with a system (Doncic IS our system) and pieces to fill in it. This isn't a team that needs more stars (although I wouldn't reject them if someone came begging)

I don't think we need a star, but more a reliable third best player. The rest of the team is just unreliable game in and game out and has been all season. I think we have a ton of bench talent, but we need someone we can rely on fully to take the load off of KP/Luka.

rimrocker · 08-09-2020, 05:09 PM

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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't think we need a star, but more a reliable third best player. The rest of the team is just unreliable game in and game out and has been all season. I think we have a ton of bench talent, but we need someone we can rely on fully to take the load off of KP/Luka.

Key word there is "reliable".
Right now our 3rd option is by committee and it could be any one of the next half dozen (THJ, Curry, DFS, Maxi, Brunson, Burke) or so players. Get that "reliable" 3rd option that the defense needs to focus on and the other 5 are guys we have are fine to fill the remaining rotation roles.

Any combination of the 3 (THJ/Curry/Brunson) should be substituted for that 3rd option player in one way or another along with our draft picks if needed. Maxi and DFS are too settled and productive in their roles to move for a 3rd option imo and Burke is the perfect replacement for Brunson and/or Curry.

SMC0007 · 08-10-2020, 07:37 AM

I hold little to no hope in the draft bringing us a 3rd best option
Hell to even get a guy who can contribute would be nice, forget about plugging a young kid into our starting lineup to help us compete because that's not happening.

Dallas41 · 08-14-2020, 12:49 PM

Well we get the one team that is the worst matchup possible for our boys.

I'm hoping we can steal at least one game but other than that KP and Luka would have to both play like prime Dirk 2011 to pull out this upset.