GDT: game 3 - Mavs (0-2) at Clippers (0-2) 2:30 FSSW

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I know you’re engaging in a bit of hyperbole here, but that’s just nuts. I’d venture to guess that Bane would look like a turd out there if we had him as a 20yr old with a condensed camp and no summer league. I would hope they chose BPA and not best right now. Green will be a starter here in a few years— book it. Bane is much closer to his ceiling than Green is. Green just turned 20 a month ago. Personally, I would’ve preferred Precious to Josh Green but I’m not unhappy with the pick. We aren’t privy to all the info they have. Hopefully they chose Green because of some combination of skill, fit, work ethic, athletic traits with need and readiness to contribute wayyyy down the list.

Sure, is partial hyperbole a thing? I mean, We need 2 way players now though and definitely sooner than in 2-3 years. Its great that the guys we have are potentially going to contribute in 2-3 years years but we are ready to contend much much sooner. THJ is not at all a 2 way player and Brunson being close to his ceiling too, I'd trade for earlier potential. I have not seen enough of Green to determine that he has such a higher ceiling than Bane. Green may totally surpass Bane and be an all-star, I highly doubt it, but we will have long forgotten about this conversation by then.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think Green is solid and will be a solid rotation guy in his rookie season and has the potential to be a star or at least solid starter for us in coming seasons.

He’s a great locker room guy, physical specimen, solid defender, gives excellent energy, and has a well-rounded offensive toolkit. I really like the kid (and the pick) for where it fell (18)

Terry on the other hand has the potential to be a scrapper defensively, secondary playmaker, and excellent spot-up guy. His absolute ceiling is Jason Terry but more likely his ceiling is Seth Curry and probably 1-2 years from even able to contribute in a game that isn’t a blowout. He could just as easily be a complete bust.

I like Bane a lot and would have been happy with him, but I like Green more at 18 and he wasn’t available at 31/36. I’d definitely do Bey/Terry for Bane but not Green/Terry.

Thats fair, I think I'd have a few mffls upset if I were GM. Because I'd trade green and terry for Bane. But we would also have C wood or Drummond as a big.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Thats fair, I think I'd have a few mffls upset if I were GM. Because I'd trade green and terry for Bane. But we would also have C wood or Drummond as a big.

Drummond i think would be the final piece that this team needs to compete with LA lakers.

I'm confident that the Mavs can matchup with anyone else out west but vs LA even with a healthy KP i think they need someone like Drummond.

That would allow them to throw KP on Harrell and than you could close with Drummond on AD. Drummond would make it tougher on AD to get those post up buckets and force him to rely more on the perimeter shots.

He finally has an expiring contract which is also beneficial.

But most importantly he's a huge upgrade over Powell and in years past the Mavs could praise Powell ability to be effective on offense but not this year.

[Thespiralgoeson]

So, I wasn't able to watch this game. I checked on the score just to see what happened, I legit thought it was a typo on ESPN.com. We beat the Clippers by 51... Granted, no Kawhi, but 51??? Wow.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Drummond i think would be the final piece that this team needs to compete with LA lakers.

I'm confident that the Mavs can matchup with anyone else out west but vs LA even with a healthy KP i think they need someone like Drummond.

That would allow them to throw KP on Harrell and than you could close with Drummond on AD. Drummond would make it tougher on AD to get those post up buckets and force him to rely more on the perimeter shots.

He finally has an expiring contract which is also beneficial.

But most importantly he's a huge upgrade over Powell and in years past the Mavs could praise Powell ability to be effective on offense but not this year.

I just don't know about Drummond or any other traditional center being the final piece for us, because I really think Porzingis is substantially better as a stretch 5 than he is as a 4. To really maximize KP's talent, you need to put him in 50 pick-and-rolls a game with Luka, and surround them both with shooters. Give me an Ibaka-like 3 and D power forward.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Sure, is partial hyperbole a thing? I mean, We need 2 way players now though and definitely sooner than in 2-3 years. Its great that the guys we have are potentially going to contribute in 2-3 years years but we are ready to contend much much sooner. THJ is not at all a 2 way player and Brunson being close to his ceiling too, I'd trade for earlier potential. I have not seen enough of Green to determine that he has such a higher ceiling than Bane. Green may totally surpass Bane and be an all-star, I highly doubt it, but we will have long forgotten about this conversation by then.

Idk if it’s a thing now that you mention it haha. More of an oxymoron actually I’d say. I think we are 2-4 years from being a serious contender and thus Green fits our timeline perfectly. Luka needs to work on his body, among other things. KP needs good health. We need another playmaker/scorer that’s better at those things than Richardson, while also, hopefully, keeping Richardson. Lakers and Clippers and Bucks need to age out.

I don’t see Green(or Bane) ever being an all-star but I think he could be a solid starter for nearly a decade. If we don’t trade him in a deal for a vet.. RC seems to really like him and his work ethic and that’s half the battle for a young player here.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I just don't know about Drummond or any other traditional center being the final piece for us, because I really think Porzingis is substantially better as a stretch 5 than he is as a 4. To really maximize KP's talent, you need to put him in 50 pick-and-rolls a game with Luka, and surround them both with shooters. Give me an Ibaka-like 3 and D power forward.

Co-sign. I really hate the fit of Drummond here. For now I want to wait and see a lineup of Luka, Jrich, DFS, Johnson, and KP. Eventually if Green develops like we hope(not this year) I think he can slide in place of Johnson as DFS can defend a lot of 4's and Green's length can switch onto a lot of smaller 4's defensively as well.

[rimrocker]

I don't see Drummond as a good fit for our system either.
Someone mentioned Ibaka and that is exactly what I think this team is missing and why I was hoping they would take Paul Reed with #31 in the draft. Great defender and rebounder that we could have developed slowly.

Aminu might be a player the Mavs should consider trading for.
Would improve our rebounding situation and can guard PFs and bigger SFs.
Seemed to fit our system well while he was here and could help spread the floor.
Wonder if Orlando would consider Powell/Terry/future 2nd for Aminu.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

So, I wasn't able to watch this game. I checked on the score just to see what happened, I legit thought it was a typo on ESPN.com. We beat the Clippers by 51... Granted, no Kawhi, but 51??? Wow.

2nd half was a nailbiter, we just outscored them by 1

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

2nd half was a nailbiter, we just outscored them by 1

We pushed it to 57 and then almost let it get away. What a crazy game.

[Dallas41]

This is why I said a few days ago that Brunson and Burke don't work together. Neither of them are pass 1st PG's


After the game against the Suns, I wondered if the Brunson/Trey Burke lineups were finished. The duo looked terrible in the opening night loss, since they’re both practically the same player — short, shoot first guards. It didn’t really make sense watching those lineups why those two had to play together, since all it did was bog down the Mavericks offense with a sort of “your turn, my turn” flow that iced out the rest of the players on the floor. Well, Rick Carlisle agrees because after splitting up the duo against the Lakers, Brunson and Burke once again didn’t share the court for the majority of the game against the Clippers, and only once the game was well-decided. Burke came in first with some of the starters in the first quarter and then Brunson checked in for Burke to start the second along with James Johnson. Staggering Burke with Luka and Brunson with Johnson seems to be smart — it means both of them are sharing the floor with a good passer, meaning the burden of initiating the offense doesn’t all fall on their shoulders. It was a stark difference for Brunson with Johnson initating a lot of offensive sets. He looked confident and comfortable when his focus was getting buckets, not making sure his teammates were in the right places. He scored 11 points in 13 minutes with zero turnovers. Burke had five points on just three shots in 18 minutes. Johnson, meanwhile, only shot 1-of-6, but he had three assists and zero turnovers. I think this is the formula to use to get the most out of all three of these players.

[Bhannon1945]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

cannot watch games on league pass if game is nationally televised on ESPN, TNT, etc.

Can’t watch on nba tv in Dallas area and not on league pass either just sol

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I just don't know about Drummond or any other traditional center being the final piece for us, because I really think Porzingis is substantially better as a stretch 5 than he is as a 4. To really maximize KP's talent, you need to put him in 50 pick-and-rolls a game with Luka, and surround them both with shooters. Give me an Ibaka-like 3 and D power forward.

He's not a fan favorite here but Blake Griffin fits well next to KP if you want to keep KP at the 5.

Blake can actually do a little more than Ibaka offensively in terms of you can actually run your offense through to him.

They are about the same in terms of rebounding now and Blake when motivated might be a legit 3rd option in Dallas.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

He's not a fan favorite here but Blake Griffin fits well next to KP if you want to keep KP at the 5.

Blake can actually do a little more than Ibaka offensively in terms of you can actually run your offense through to him.

They are about the same in terms of rebounding now and Blake when motivated might be a legit 3rd option in Dallas.

He might be the best of what’s available to us if we want to use expirings to improve. I think he would be a good third option and would help with playmaking and rebounding. I guess it would depend obviously on the cost and his health. And MBT would have to be fairly certain they couldn’t find better. But this trade deadline is huge for us so the clock is ticking to some extent.

[SMC0007]

Healthy Blake Griffen with Luka could be good. But 36m is hard to reach eh?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Healthy Blake Griffen with Luka could be good. But 36m is hard to reach eh?

It is. It would likely mean THJ and James Johnson going out so we would lose depth and two contributors. I think I’d pass, that’s a lot of salary to pay a chronically injured dude. One virtue is in rolling over the large expiring contract. So that he becomes a large expiring to salary match NEXT season if a Beal or other star comes available. If they plan to retain THJ at the $ he’s likely to want it might not be a bad gamble. You get a highly skilled former all-star who is probably dying to play for winning, relevant organization again. It likely doesn’t move the needle enough to make us a true contender though and it would presume Detroit would trade him for just expiring contracts. I wouldn’t give them an asset in the form of our rookies or future picks for Blake’s contract. Probably not even Brunson.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Healthy Blake Griffen with Luka could be good. But 36m is hard to reach eh?

Blake can still hoop and I think he's over that knee injury because he's looked and moved very well this year.

If someone told me the Mavs would go into the playoffs this year with a healthy Luka, KP, Blake and Josh Richardson as their top 4 players I'd say that team would be top 4 seed out West and a strong contender to reach the WCF.

That is a lot of talent especially if your just asking Blake and Richardson to be 3rd and 4th options.

And just for the record do people realize Blake is just as big as Powell let that sink in for minute.

[tap2390]

I struggle to think of a worse fit on this team than Blake Griffin. He's definitely expanded his range but is consistently one of the worst defenders in the league and is arguably on the single worst contract in the league. He doesn't defend the rim, doesn't defend the perimeter, isn't a great rebounder, and isn't great putting the ball on the floor. Hard pass.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I struggle to think of a worse fit on this team than Blake Griffin. He's definitely expanded his range but is consistently one of the worst defenders in the league and is arguably on the single worst contract in the league. He doesn't defend the rim, doesn't defend the perimeter, isn't a great rebounder, and isn't great putting the ball on the floor. Hard pass.

Seriously this

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I struggle to think of a worse fit on this team than Blake Griffin. He's definitely expanded his range but is consistently one of the worst defenders in the league and is arguably on the single worst contract in the league. He doesn't defend the rim, doesn't defend the perimeter, isn't a great rebounder, and isn't great putting the ball on the floor. Hard pass.

You could find worse fits for this team Starting with Powell. Just having him not be an option would almost be worth considering Griffen.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You could find worse fits for this team Starting with Powell. Just having him not be an option would almost be worth considering Griffen.

Do you really want to give up assets (you'll have to to match contracts) and pay $40 million next year for a slightly upgraded version of Dwight Powell? All factors considered I take Powell over Griffin 10 out of 10 times.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Do you really want to give up assets (you'll have to to match contracts) and pay $40 million next year for a slightly upgraded version of Dwight Powell? All factors considered I take Powell over Griffin 10 out of 10 times.

Slight upgrade LOL

I think you are highly overrating Powell

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Do you really want to give up assets (you'll have to to match contracts) and pay $40 million next year for a slightly upgraded version of Dwight Powell? All factors considered I take Powell over Griffin 10 out of 10 times.

Regardless of if I would do it or not... Slightly upgraded?! Come on there is no comparison between what they can do.im not the biggest Griffin fan, but he would be a massive upgrade.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I struggle to think of a worse fit on this team than Blake Griffin. He's definitely expanded his range but is consistently one of the worst defenders in the league and is arguably on the single worst contract in the league. He doesn't defend the rim, doesn't defend the perimeter, isn't a great rebounder, and isn't great putting the ball on the floor. Hard pass.

What Blake have you been watching?

Dude is more of a Point Forward in today's NBA

He handles the ball pretty damn good for a 6'10 player and passes very well.

I cant think of anything Powell does that is even close to Blake.

It's a small sample but he's avg 20ppg, 6 rebounds and 3 assist this year, In 2019 he avg 18 PPG, 8 RPG and 5 assist per game. He played 75 games avg 35 MPG and shot 36% from three.

I don't think I've ever recalled Powell putting up numbers like that and I'm pretty sure Blake wouldn't get bullied inside by the likes of Zubac or Harrell guys his own size that Powell can't defend.

If the Pistons were willing to take Powell in some sort of Package for Blake that doesn't take away too much depth from the Mavs I'd be shocked if they said No to that type of trade.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Do you really want to give up assets (you'll have to to match contracts) and pay $40 million next year for a slightly upgraded version of Dwight Powell? All factors considered I take Powell over Griffin 10 out of 10 times.

Yeah I don’t want Griffen but wanted to weigh all sides of it. He’s no ones ideal. But he is a way better bAsketball player than Powell has ever been. He’s not good defensively but probably not much worse than Powell if at all and he is an excellent passer and 3 point shooter. You can actually run the offense thru him at times from the high post. He is eons better putting the ball on the floor than Powell or Maxi for that matter.

My angle was: it’s arguably better to not let JJ and THJ simply expire and Griffen essentially has this shortened season and then he’s on a large existing deal. If J-Rich gets 20-25m per from us and we let THJ walk we have very little cap room anyhow. No $ to money whip an RFA. Weak FA class. Unless they can dump another contract and use the space gained along with remainder of what we didn’t give to Richardson. But it’d likely cost us assets we maybe like better than THJ or Johnson. It’s probably best to start operating as an over the cap team though.

[FreshJive]

Blake griffin. Gross

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

For now I want to wait and see a lineup of Luka, Jrich, DFS, Johnson, and KP.

This is what I would like to see as well. Johnson is so versatile on both ends of the court. I’m more skeptical that Carlisle will bench Hardaway than Powell.

[EricaLubarsky]

Griffin is an upgrade like Antawn Jamison was an upgrade on Eschmeyer

100% a better player, but not a good fit and you have to pay a lot to get him

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I also don't get the Drummond love on twitter, either.

It gets old trying to get people to understand that KP is the center on this team. That is why they unsuccessfully went after Crowder to start at the 4 next to him.

This really isn't rocket science.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Griffin is an upgrade like Antawn Jamison was an upgrade on Eschmeyer

100% a better player, but not a good fit and you have to pay a lot to get him

Well they sent Jamison for the pick that became Devin Harris. That was part of my point: you would only nominally be trading for Griffen. He would be a talent upgrade but he would also allow another shot at trading for a disgruntled or overpaid star while he’s on an expiring contract. Otherwise, assuming we re-sign Jrich, we have Maxi and DFS and Powell and that’s 22m or something. I guess Burke as well. Tough to get a team to find roster spots and then you’re looking at getting other teams involved.

I’m not pro-Griffen and I’m not even sure they should trade JJ and THJ for a contract, but it is an option and Blake is probably not the best but also not the worst of those options.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I also don't get the Drummond love on twitter, either.

It gets old trying to get people to understand that KP is the center on this team. That is why they unsuccessfully went after Crowder to start at the 4 next to him.

This really isn't rocket science.

I have no interest in Drummond. Not the same thing as Griffen.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

This is what I would like to see as well. Johnson is so versatile on both ends of the court. I’m more skeptical that Carlisle will bench Hardaway than Powell.

I would like to see more Johnson as well. He has been a little tentative and he’s almost too communicative with his teammates. Like he micromanages. Maybe when they all get to know one another he will play more freely.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Well they sent Jamison for the pick that became Devin Harris. That was part of my point: you would only nominally be trading for Griffen. He would be a talent upgrade but he would also allow another shot at trading for a disgruntled or overpaid star while he’s on an expiring contract. Otherwise, assuming we re-sign Jrich, we have Maxi and DFS and Powell and that’s 22m or something. I guess Burke as well. Tough to get a team to find roster spots and then you’re looking at getting other teams involved.

I’m not pro-Griffen and I’m not even sure they should trade JJ and THJ for a contract, but it is an option and Blake is probably not the best but also not the worst of those options.

I might consider it, but only depending on what the Mavs would have to give up for him. To make the salaries match, you'd have to give up something of value.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I might consider it, but only depending on what the Mavs would have to give up for him. To make the salaries match, you'd have to give up something of value.

I think Johnson and THJ would do it matching wise, I may be wrong though. I wouldn’t give anything more. Not even saying I would give that for him. We would lose solid contributors. And maybe MBT want to bring them back? Kind of hope they don’t though.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I think Johnson and THJ would do it matching wise, I may be wrong though. I wouldn’t give anything more. Not even saying I would give that for him. We would lose solid contributors. And maybe MBT want to bring them back? Kind of hope they don’t though.

Yeah, I think I'd rather just keep THJ if all we're getting back is Griffin.

[ChampsAgainShoon]

I'd take Blake Griffin, for the MLE.

Impossible? Then it's impossible that I'm interested in him.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I also don't get the Drummond love on twitter, either.

It gets old trying to get people to understand that KP is the center on this team. That is why they unsuccessfully went after Crowder to start at the 4 next to him.

This really isn't rocket science.

If the idea of getting Crowder was to start him at the 4 then that was a lucky miss.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

What Blake have you been watching?

Dude is more of a Point Forward in today's NBA

He handles the ball pretty damn good for a 6'10 player and passes very well.

I cant think of anything Powell does that is even close to Blake.

It's a small sample but he's avg 20ppg, 6 rebounds and 3 assist this year, In 2019 he avg 18 PPG, 8 RPG and 5 assist per game. He played 75 games avg 35 MPG and shot 36% from three.

I don't think I've ever recalled Powell putting up numbers like that and I'm pretty sure Blake wouldn't get bullied inside by the likes of Zubac or Harrell guys his own size that Powell can't defend.

If the Pistons were willing to take Powell in some sort of Package for Blake that doesn't take away too much depth from the Mavs I'd be shocked if they said No to that type of trade.

I'm talking about the Blake Griffin who is dead last on his team in +/- this season.

I understand that he can pass a little bit and has expanded his range. He's also lost his athleticism, lingers on the perimeter, and is horrendous on defense. All that and we're expected to shell out $40 million for him next season?? The only way I make that move is if the Pistons give up multiple unprotected first round picks.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

WCS is a big asset. He should be starting at Center for now getting at least 25 minutes. His +/- is great. then WCS should be the backup C once KP returns., e.g., getting 15+ mins per game. Green should be getting 6-8 minutes per game (e.g., taking some time away from Burke/THJ). Powell can start, but get no more than 8-10 mins per game. We have a $4M team option on WCS for next year, which will be a bargain if they let him play. JJ looks like point forward sometimes with the 2nd team. he and Brunson work well on the second team. I like Burke playing with Luka. (Burke and Brunson together - not so good - as that is 2 shoot first point guards taking turns going 1 on 5, not much passing).

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

WCS is a big asset. He should be starting at Center for now getting at least 25 minutes. His +/- is great. then WCS should be the backup C once KP returns., e.g., getting 15+ mins per game. Green should be getting 6-8 minutes per game (e.g., taking some time away from Burke/THJ). Powell can start, but get no more than 8-10 mins per game. We have a $4M team option on WCS for next year, which will be a bargain if they let him play. JJ looks like point forward sometimes with the 2nd team. he and Brunson work well on the second team. I like Burke playing with Luka. (Burke and Brunson together - not so good - as that is 2 shoot first point guards taking turns going 1 on 5, not much passing).

As in Burke in starting 5?