Wang the trillion dollar player - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

David · 12-14-2002, 11:42 AM

When Wang signed with the Mavs, the Mavs, Wang and the Chinese government signed an agreement that Wang would come back to China when the season was over. Wang fulfilled his agreements up until he didn't return after last season. The Mavs had a signed agreement that they chose to live up to. Wang chose not to live up to his part of the agreement. Wang is now suffering the consequences. He didn't have to return the China. The Mavs didn't have to re-sign him. The Chinese don't have to show him on TV. Each party is free to do what they want.

MavKikiNYC · 12-14-2002, 11:48 AM

<< I'm sorry if this linear time concept is that far beyond you,

but that happened after Wang went to the Clips.
The mavs decision was mad before wang went to the clips.

should the mavs have dialed up Miss Cleo? >>

Man, banning the Clips occured AFTER he went there, but the THREAT of retribution existed all along. The Chinese would've banned broadcast of games involving whatever team signed Wang, including the Mavericks probably. And the Chinese were counting on this leverage in order to keep Wang under their thumb.

Each party is free to do what they want.

That's kinda cavalier. Wang isn't precisely free to do what he wants-- without consequences.

Wang stood up to a bully who was demanding his lunch money and is now paying the consequences.

The Mavericks held the bully's coat while he kicked Wang,
and 27 other teams stood by silently and allowed the bully to kick Wang around. All free to do what they want.

That's one way of looking at it.

Chiwas · 12-14-2002, 01:05 PM

<< When Wang signed with the Mavs, the Mavs, Wang and the Chinese government signed an agreement that Wang would come back to China when the season was over. Wang fulfilled his agreements up until he didn't return after last season. The Mavs had a signed agreement that they chose to live up to. Wang chose not to live up to his part of the agreement. Wang is now suffering the consequences. He didn't have to return the China. The Mavs didn't have to re-sign him. The Chinese don't have to show him on TV. Each party is free to do what they want. >>

I think the main problem was that there weren´t legal papers about the special agreement. Above all, the part related with the Wang's responsabilities with the Chinese authorities; I don't think that the NBA or the USA's laws allow this kind of obligations.

David · 12-14-2002, 07:23 PM

Wang is a Chinese citizen. He is bound by Chinese laws. When he is over here, he must abide by the laws over here. He signed an agreement. He didn't live up to it. The Mavs chose to live up to their agreement. If Wang didn't want to do what he agreed to do, he shouldn't have signed.

Chiwas · 12-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Then he is a defecter from China,de facto.

Maybe he can´t return or visit his country anymore.

Dooby · 12-16-2002, 10:34 AM

<< Wang is a Chinese citizen. He is bound by Chinese laws. When he is over here, he must abide by the laws over here. He signed an agreement. He didn't live up to it. The Mavs chose to live up to their agreement. If Wang didn't want to do what he agreed to do, he shouldn't have signed. >>

David, I can't begin to tell you how little sense this makes or how wrong it is.

David · 12-16-2002, 10:25 PM

<<

<< Wang is a Chinese citizen. He is bound by Chinese laws. When he is over here, he must abide by the laws over here. He signed an agreement. He didn't live up to it. The Mavs chose to live up to their agreement. If Wang didn't want to do what he agreed to do, he shouldn't have signed. >>

David, I can't begin to tell you how little sense this makes or how wrong it is. >>

1. Wang is a Chinese citizen. Chinese citizens are bound by Chinese laws. This makes sense.

2. Wang is over here, presumably under some kind of work visa. He either obeys the law or they deport him. That makes sense.

3. Wang signed an agreement to play in the US. Three parties signed the agreement. The Chinese, the Mavs and Wang. Among other things, the agreement said Wang would return to China after the season and that the Mavs would see that he did.

4. After the last year, Wang was supposed to return to China per the agreement. Wang did not. Had the Mavs re-signed Wang, it would have given the appearance that the Mavs didn't care if Wang lived up to his agreements and the Mavs therefore don't live up to THEIR agreements.

5. The system of government in China is another issue. The Mavs are not responsible for trying to change their system over in China or for helping Wang circumvent that system or his agreements over here.

6. Wang didn't have to sign the agreement to return to China. If he didn't like it, he shouldn't have signed. Wang got over to the US and started feeling the freedom and decided to do something else. He apparently can get away with it, he's still here. The Chinese are apparently doing what they can to make it hard on him. It's better than their sending a hit squad out after him.

Usually Lurkin · 12-21-2002, 11:47 AM

who cares about the politics?

Wang kicks butt against the suns:

17 minutes
16 points
5 reb
1 block

just give him more playing time!!!

MavKikiNYC · 12-21-2002, 01:18 PM

LOL...

I'm tellin' ya ...the big Wang is a point-a-minute kind-o'-player.
You KNOW Dooby et al were sweating this one.

Looks like he might've been a garbage-time star. I checked mid-game--the Clips were already way behind and he had a half dozen points already.

But yeah. I think he can put some numbers up at least given the minutes.

The Clips are one disappointing bunch this year overall. When they got Miller, I thought they were going to be tough. But so far, nothing but a big pffffft...

Super Slow Mo · 12-21-2002, 05:28 PM

kiki, with 3 starters out, and 1 of the starters for 1 of the hurt starters out, what ya expect?

Evilmav2 · 12-21-2002, 07:28 PM

Ha... I knew the Wang Lovers club would get excited the first time he did anything productive this season. This game has been a long time coming. Congratulations Wang! You just took your first step toward actually earning your salary this year!

MavKikiNYC · 12-22-2002, 10:23 AM

WZZ is on a run, showing himself to be a difference-maker by contributing 5 huge points in a 3 point win. He had 2 points after only 3 minutes of play, which as we all know, projects to a 32ppg performance on a 48-minute basis. He hit 100% of his 3-point shots, leading the Clipper team to a sizzling 60% (6-10) from 3-point range.

He also showed himself to be a Hungry Giant Awakening into an Emasculating Defensive Presence by collecting his 5TH blocked shot of the season, and helped limit the Nuggets 3-point shooting to 2-10.

Wang Zhizhi--M: 14 FGs: 2-5 3s: 1-1 FTs: 0-0 Reb: 0 Ast:0 PF: 0 St:0 TO: 0 BS: 1 PTS: 5

He totally outplayed Predrag Savovic, but I'm not at all shocked.

Wang--keep it up.

Evilmav2 · 12-22-2002, 01:44 PM

Wang's presence is usually defensively emasculated by whatever PF is fortunate enough to have the easy assignment of guarding the traitorous flying rocket...

realclipsfan · 12-22-2002, 02:27 PM

I watched the game last night, Wang is a solid player.

Chiwas · 12-22-2002, 02:49 PM

<< Wang is a solid player. >>

Wang's 2002-2003 statistics:

14 0 9.4 .415 .450 .667 .30 1.00 1.30 .1 .07 .36 .64 .80 4.5

<< Raef is a joke >>

LaFrentz 2002-2003 statistics:

13 10 22.1 .495 .500 .813 1.30 2.00 3.30 .5 .46 1.23 .54 3.90 8.8

I can't understand why Wang is a solid player while LaFrentz is a joke, comparing their statistics and knowing that LaFrentz has been injured, had a surgery and is in rehabilitation, all during the season, meanwhile Wang has been totally healthy in the same time.

Some bias?

realclipsfan · 12-22-2002, 05:50 PM

Wang may have been healthy but he missed the entire training camp, did Raef? Wang also makes 2m per, what about Raef? Wang doesn't get a whole lot of PT either, does he? Wang doesn't know much english, what about Raef? This is Wangs 3rd year in the USA, what about Raef? When Wangs on the court, he atleast tries and we all know about him staying over in the good ol' U.S.of A. to work on his game. Do you expect the same productivity out of Popeye and Najera? Of course not, why? Raefs averaging less than 4rpg I believe, come on you guys cannot be happy with that, I know I am not.

LRB · 12-22-2002, 06:24 PM

Hmmmm. There never was a question of whether the Mavs would keep Wang or Raef. Guess we could not have signed Raef and signed Wang. But that was never even a consideration. Maybe the reason it wasn't because even though Raef is not producing near what we hoped for, he is still head and shoulders better than Wang.

<< Raefs averaging less than 4rpg I believe, come on you guys cannot be happy with that, I know I am not. >>

Yes, I would like Raef to average more than 1 rebound every 6.7 minutes of play. But he is hurt, and the hope is when he returns to health he will at least average a rebound every 4.0 minutes of play. Wang on the other hand is averaging a rebound every 7.2 minutes of play. I would say that sucks. Figure Wang is A) healthy, B) not playing against the quality of rebounders that Raef is (happens when your minutes primarily come in garbage time, C) is playing on an underachieving lottery bound team that teams don't get up to play like they do the Mavs.

Not to mention that Wang in the words of Nellie "doesn't have a clue defensively".

Then there is the chemistry and integrity factor. Wang wasn't good for the Mavs chemistry wise. He was too selvish. I believe that would have shown up big time this year. And if he is so solid why is he having such a hard time getting off the bench despite injuries?

Raef maynot be having a decent year so far, but I would much rather have him on my team even in his dimished capacity when facing the kings then Wang.

LRB · 12-22-2002, 06:37 PM

<< WZZ is on a run, showing himself to be a difference-maker by contributing 5 huge points in a 3 point win. He had 2 points after only 3 minutes of play, which as we all know, projects to a 32ppg performance on a 48-minute basis. He hit 100% of his 3-point shots, leading the Clipper team to a sizzling 60% (6-10) from 3-point range.

He also showed himself to be a Hungry Giant Awakening into an Emasculating Defensive Presence by collecting his 5TH blocked shot of the season, and helped limit the Nuggets 3-point shooting to 2-10.

Wang Zhizhi--M: 14 FGs: 2-5 3s: 1-1 FTs: 0-0 Reb: 0 Ast:0 PF: 0 St:0 TO: 0 BS: 1 PTS: 5

He totally outplayed Predrag Savovic, but I'm not at all shocked.

Wang--keep it up. >>

Points per minute statistic is meaningless, as are all statistics unless a large enough base of data is obtained. Given enough 2 minute opportunities, I could drap my fat butt out on the court and hit 1 shot. So what? Nobody in their right mind is going to offer me even a 10 day contract and nobody in their right mind is going to believe Wang is ready to consistently score at that pace when given substantial and quality minutes. So what happens when one of the big 3 hits a shot in the 1st 5 seconds? Lets see that works out to 1152 points per 48 minutes. Obiviously anybody with a rudimentry grasp of statistics and the NBA game can see what a ludicrious argument it is to use 48 minute statistics for 2 minutes of playing time. I can only guess that you were doing this in an attempt at humor. If so, good one. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

realclipsfan · 12-22-2002, 09:45 PM

So if and when he continues to play like this, then what?

MavKikiNYC · 12-22-2002, 10:33 PM

He'll be an All-Star soon.

Evilmav2 · 12-22-2002, 11:11 PM

Hmmmm. There never was a question of whether the Mavs would keep Wang or Raef. Guess we could not have signed Raef and signed Wang. But that was never even a consideration. Maybe the reason it wasn't because even though Raef is not producing near what we hoped for, he is still head and shoulders better than Wang.

Wang was a restricted free agent, meaning that we were free to match the Clippers offer and resign him if we so chose. His absence on the Mavs' roster is the result of Wang's lying to Mavericks' management...

Although in retrospect, our failure to resign Wang probably makes sense from a talent point of view anyway. I think Wang's replacement, Walt Williams, has done a heckuva lot more to help us win games than Wang might have this year...

LRB · 12-23-2002, 02:18 AM

<< Hmmmm. There never was a question of whether the Mavs would keep Wang or Raef. Guess we could not have signed Raef and signed Wang. But that was never even a consideration. Maybe the reason it wasn't because even though Raef is not producing near what we hoped for, he is still head and shoulders better than Wang.

Wang was a restricted free agent, meaning that we were free to match the Clippers offer and resign him if we so chose. His absence on the Mavs' roster is the result of Wang's lying to Mavericks' management...

Although in retrospect, our failure to resign Wang probably makes sense from a talent point of view anyway. I think Wang's replacement, Walt Williams, has done a heckuva lot more to help us win games than Wang might have this year... >>

Good point. Thanks for bringing Walt up. I had meant to and forgot. I remember hearing the anouncers repeating a conversation with Nellie stating that Walt was the Mavs #3 rebounder in per minute rebounds, the key stat that the Mavs use internally. The 2 hand behind the back dunks in traffic are a nice bonus too.

Evilmav2 · 12-23-2002, 04:57 PM

With Walt's tough play we won games in Seattle and Cleveland that might well have been lost without him. His gamesmanship and fiery play make a refreshing contrast to the breezy, sauntering, sometimes uninterested playing style of Wang last year...

The loss of Wang was addition by subtraction. We no longer carry the dead weight of a three point shooting softy who refuses to rebound- a player we were forced to give guaranteed minutes because of the demands of his communist government- and what happened? Quite simply we improved. The winners of the Wang sweepstakes in LA cannot claim so much...

LRB · 12-23-2002, 05:21 PM

Evil: From seeing the Mavs play against teams with Walt on them, I'd way rather have him on our team just so we won't have to play against him. Can't say the same for Wang.

MavKikiNYC · 12-23-2002, 06:08 PM

<< I think Wang's replacement, Walt Williams... >>

Actually, Williams was a replacement for Newmann; Jones was signed to replace Wang; and Bell for Buckner.

<< We no longer carry the dead weight of a three point shooting softy who refuses to rebound- >>

What about LaF? Popeye, though long a favorite of mine, would also be pretty accurately described as deadweight this year. As would Esch.

<< a player we were forced to give guaranteed minutes because of the demands of his communist government >>

Are you alleging that the Mavericks acted at the behest of a Communist regime? Do you believe they also declined to re-sign Wang because of similarly imposed pressure? Who would've thought the Donald Sterling would've had the balls to stand up to the Commmunists when Cuban wouldn't?

<< Quite simply we improved. >>

Until the Mavericks advance into the Conference Finals, that assessment is precipitous.

<< The winners of the Wang sweepstakes in LA cannot claim so much... >>

To attribute to Wang the Clipper's demise is....not surprising, considering the source.

Wang's quiet rise to dominance continues unabated, despite the churlish slings and arrows of fair-weather Mavericks fans who only cheer as long as a player is with the Mavericks, but show true colors when a player moves on to bigger, better things. Real Mavericks fans wouldn't jeer alumni.

OutletPass · 12-24-2002, 01:28 AM

The thread that never dies

...think it will still be going in 2006. Any bets on that happening ? Who's giving odds ?

LRB · 12-24-2002, 01:40 AM

I'd give slightly better odds to the thread still going in 2006 than Wang still going in the NBA in 2006.

realclipsfan · 12-24-2002, 02:53 AM

kiki, that was a damn good post

realclipsfan · 12-24-2002, 02:54 AM

kiki, that was a damn good post

madape · 12-24-2002, 10:25 AM

<< The thread that never dies

...think it will still be going in 2006. Any bets on that happening ? Who's giving odds ? >>

My prediction for 2006: After China and America become allies following the quelling of the insurgence in North Korea, we will cooperate with China in extraditing all Chinese political figures taking exile in America. The INS will swoop down on Wang's Los Angeles restaurant "Dodger's egg foo yung" and arrest him while he schmoozes with adoring customers. After two quiet years with Wang being out of the league, Wang supporters will resurface in a protest march on Washington. One sign, carried by 12 year old Japanese kid will read "Free Wang, the next Dirk Nowitzki".

President George Bush, in his second term as US president, issues this announcement: "With the help of China, we have located and arrested all threats to the Chinese, American global alliance... including the failed basketball star Wang Zhi Zhi. The world is now a safer place."

When interviewed about Wang, Don Nelson, who's Maverick team has won three straigt NBA Championships, simply chuckes.

Donald Sterling, who's Clippers were banned by Chinese television and who had been in the lottery ten consecutive years, decides to sell the team to a group of Chinese businessmen, relocating the team to Beijing. The "Beijing Dragons" will be made up entirely of Chinese basketball players. In 2007, they will set the record for most losses in an NBA season. In 2008, the team will be sold back to an investement group in Dallas... which will make Dallas the third city in
America to support NBA two eams.

Evilmav2 · 12-24-2002, 06:33 PM

Wang's quiet rise to dominance continues unabated, despite the churlish slings and arrows of fair-weather Mavericks fans who only cheer as long as a player is with the Mavericks, but show true colors when a player moves on to bigger, better things. Real Mavericks fans wouldn't jeer alumni.

Wang is a liar and a traitor. His lies to the Mavericks and his nation are well documented. That puts him in a different category from former Mavs like the Lucious Harris' and George McClouds of the world. I will not criticize former Mavs for no reason, but I have no qualms about throwing churlish slings and arrows at derelict and mercenary traitors...

David · 12-24-2002, 07:09 PM

<< Wang's quiet rise to dominance continues unabated, despite the churlish slings and arrows of fair-weather Mavericks fans who only cheer as long as a player is with the Mavericks, but show true colors when a player moves on to bigger, better things. Real Mavericks fans wouldn't jeer alumni.

Wang is a liar and a traitor. His lies to the Mavericks and his nation are well documented. That puts him in a different category from former Mavs like the Lucious Harris' and George McClouds of the world. I will not criticize former Mavs for no reason, but I have no qualms about throwing churlish slings and arrows at derelict and mercenary traitors... >>

That's a little harsh. I think Wang was trying to become the best basketball player he could be by staying over here for the summer but his leaders didn't agree. Over in China, he had little freedom. After getting over here and seeing the difference, it was like going from no sex to sex and being asked to go back. It was like, "right. I'll go back, KICKING AND SCREAMING." I don't blame Wang for his actions but, like most actions, there are consequences.

realclipsfan · 12-25-2002, 06:01 AM

That, I agree with!

Evilmav2 · 01-03-2003, 01:54 PM

Well, WangWang had another chance to show the Mavs just what kind of a player they let go this Summer. Another Mavs-Clippers game facilitates another look at the poor abilities of Wang...

MavKikiNYC · 01-03-2003, 05:37 PM

Reviewing the box score, WZZ's 6 pts/3 rebs in 9 minutes projects to 32 pts, 16 rebs on a 48-minute basis.

Compare that to:

LaF's 12/16 and

Mantis's 13/5*

and WZZ's performance can only be termed 'dominant**' . Clearly, the Mavericks' post uncertainties would be significantly mitigated had they retained the potentially impressive services of The Big Producer.

(*The box score indicates that Mantis fouled out after 25 minutes, so the 48-minute projection has to be adjusted to his actual production.)

(**On a 48-minute-projection basis.)

LRB · 01-03-2003, 05:59 PM

<< Reviewing the box score, WZZ's 6 pts/3 rebs in 9 minutes projects to 32 pts, 16 rebs on a 48-minute basis.

Compare that to:

LaF's 12/16 and

Mantis's 13/5*

and WZZ's performance can only be termed 'dominant**' . Clearly, the Mavericks' post uncertainties would be significantly mitigated had they retained the potentially impressive services of The Big Producer.

(*The box score indicates that Mantis fouled out after 25 minutes, so the 48-minute projection has to be adjusted to his actual production.)

(**On a 48-minute-projection basis.) >>

You can clearly see how Wang's "dominant" play has turned the clippers into a playoff bound powerhouse in fantasy 48-minute leagues. To bad his lazy ass is so out of condition that he can't even spell defense in chinese well enough to get more than 9 minutes of playing time in a game where his team's front line was being shut down by the opposition. Maybe some day he'll decide to develop a work ethic and get in shape and develop a full game where he can get on the court more that 1 out of every 5 minutes.

MavKikiNYC · 01-03-2003, 06:37 PM

Wang is single-handedly keeping the Clippers within sight of a playoff berth. His solid play in relief of Olowakandi can't be underestimated. In fact, he may be replacing Kandi in the starting lineup soon.

Quiet dominance.

Evilmav2 · 01-04-2003, 02:15 AM

Whoops, I was going to say something about Wang's big night in Dallas but I farted instead. Maybe I'll remember what I was going to say a little later...

LRB · 01-04-2003, 04:59 AM

<< Whoops, I was going to say something about Wang's big night in Dallas but I farted instead. Maybe I'll remember what I was going to say a little later... >>

Evil was it a quiet dominant fart?

MavKikiNYC · 01-04-2003, 08:31 AM

<< Whoops, I was going to say something about Wang's big night in Dallas but I farted instead. Maybe I'll remember what I was going to say a little later... >>

That raises a very interesting evolutionary question.