The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread - Page 54 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LonghornDub · 05-15-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

When I watched the All Star game I kept thinking to myself that Dwight and Deron could be Mavs and I was really excited and optimistic.

Recently I've swung over to the pessimistic side. I want to believe, I just don't.

This is more or less what I expect from fans. It's just funny how it also seems to happen to the media en masse (sans the "optimistic" or "pessimistic" value judgment), often without any real reason.

Scott McGuire · 05-15-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

My stance has always been that I'm not reading into anything, good or bad, until we get near the time where a decision REALLY needs to be made.

Either way, hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Come on BG…. Give us something inside scoopish…. Anything…. We'll read into it for you….

Scott McGuire · 05-15-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is more or less what I expect from fans. It's just funny how it also seems to happen to the media en masse (sans the "optimistic" or "pessimistic" value judgment), often without any real reason.

I concede that my feelings on if DWill is coming aren't entirely objective. It's a bit like Deron is playing poker with all of us and we can't read his face. He isn't letting us know if he's about to put on the Nets hat or the Mavs hat in 6 weeks or so.

I think back when the posting fee on Darvish was about to be publicized and everyone thought it was Toronto, but it ended up being the Rangers. I hope everyone is wrong this time too.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

Come on BG…. Give us something inside scoopish…. Anything…. We'll read into it for you….

Legally, they can't do a damn thing until they get to the window where they can actually talk to him.

They're going to use this team to create their plan(s) of attack. Outside of Deron, the moves are going to depend on how the market plays out. You have to see how the rest of the league reacts to the CBA. You saw some teams throw away money last summer, and some made moves to shed salary. You just have to wait and see how it plays out for this summer, thus Cuban say they'll take a reactionary approach.

They can keep the powder dry if they feel it's necessary to do so. I have a hard time seeing them blowing the money on moves that resemble what Detroit did with their cap space.

Underdog · 05-15-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is more or less what I expect from fans. It's just funny how it also seems to happen to the media en masse (sans the "optimistic" or "pessimistic" value judgment), often without any real reason.

There's a real reason (two, actually):

1) the media needs you to keep paying attention to their product so they can stay in business.
2) nobody likes to read/hear/watch the same thing over and over again.

So they flip the script back and forth to keep things interesting, because, frankly, they don't have a damn clue what's going to happen anyway...

Kidd Karma · 05-15-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is more or less what I expect from fans. It's just funny how it also seems to happen to the media en masse (sans the "optimistic" or "pessimistic" value judgment), often without any real reason.

Yea, well right now the guy is in Russia, so everything should be leaning the Nets way. I would expect this since the Nets are the only team that can talk to him right now.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-15-2012, 03:41 PM

Why do people keep mentioning Detroit as if that is the prime example on why it might be smart to keep the power dry? Those contracts were monumentally stupid to players who probably weren't worth half of what they were paid. Splitting Deron's offer with players like Dragic or Kaman would NOT in any way be the same as giving contracts to Gordon or Villanueva. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Why do people keep mentioning Detroit as if that is the prime example on why it might be smart to keep the power dry? Those contracts were monumentally stupid to players who probably weren't worth half of what they were paid. Splitting Deron's offer with players like Dragic or Kaman would NOT in any way be the same as giving contracts to Gordon or Villanueva. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

Some people probably see splitting that money between those two guys as a Detroit model. I wouldn't agree with that assessment, but I'm guessing that's what people see with it. It's going to be considered a consolation prize, so it's considered "wasted" money.

Scott McGuire · 05-15-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Some people probably see splitting that money between those two guys as a Detroit model. I wouldn't agree with that assessment, but I'm guessing that's what people see with it. It's going to be considered a consolation prize, so it's considered "wasted" money.

I think Dragic is great right now, but go look at Charlie V's number the season before he signed with Detroit.

As a starter in 47 of his 78 games that season he averaged 17.7 pts and 7.3 rebs. Overall he was at 16.2 6.7.

It's easy to say now that he was a terrible signing, but at the time he was 24y/o with tons of potential and a career year.

Does this sound like Dragic a little? He could be fool's gold or he could be worth every penny. Are you willing to bet 8-10 million a year on him?

oilfieldtrash · 05-15-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

I think Dragic is great right now, but go look at Charlie V's number the season before he signed with Detroit.

As a starter in 47 of his 78 games that season he averaged 17.7 pts and 7.3 rebs. Overall he was at 16.2 6.7.

It's easy to say now that he was a terrible signing, but at the time he was 24y/o with tons of potential and a career year.

Does this sound like Dragic a little? He could be fool's gold or he could be worth every penny. Are you willing to bet 8-10 million a year on him?

Not only that but this free agent class is weak. Guys like Dragic and Kaman are in line for some healthy contracts.

aexchange · 05-15-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Why do people keep mentioning Detroit as if that is the prime example on why it might be smart to keep the power dry? Those contracts were monumentally stupid to players who probably weren't worth half of what they were paid. Splitting Deron's offer with players like Dragic or Kaman would NOT in any way be the same as giving contracts to Gordon or Villanueva. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

For a guy with declining numbers every year and likely having to amnesty Haywood to create space for him, Kaman is not a guy I'd waste the amnesty on. Would I take low risk, low dollar flyer on him? Hell yes, but people are infatuated with what he was 3 seasons ago and not with what he is now. Also, blowing any substantive amount of cap space on Dragic is monumentally stupid and exactly what caused Detroit to blow big money on Villaneua and Gordon. Its going to take more money to sign them than what they've actually produced over the course of their careers.

Kidd Karma · 05-15-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Why do people keep mentioning Detroit as if that is the prime example on why it might be smart to keep the power dry? Those contracts were monumentally stupid to players who probably weren't worth half of what they were paid. Splitting Deron's offer with players like Dragic or Kaman would NOT in any way be the same as giving contracts to Gordon or Villanueva. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

MBT has been cleaning cap space for a difference maker, 2 to boot. They're going with the Big 3 model. Dragic nor Kaman are difference makers. You're looking at 8 million per year for each, and nothing less than 4 years. With this type of contract, they become harder to trade, when Howard does become available. You get a Nash and KG at the same rate on 2 year deals, it's an easier pill to swallow for say Orlando. Dragic would be a nice piece if we had say Joe Johnson or Iguodala, another big chip next to Dirk. But you make Dragic that 2nd option.....it's really not the way to go when you have that flexibility. If you bring in Kaman and Dragic you won't have much space to do anything outside of draft picks.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 05:15 PM

Batum talk:

According to the agent for Portland Trail Blazers forward, Nicolas Batum, they will not be holding off on deals to allow the Trail Blazers to sign a couple of free agents before the team tends to his client, who's a restricted free agent.

“The first good offer we get, we're going with that,” Bouna Ndiaye of Comsport Management told CSNNW.com. “We're not waiting for anything.”

full article here http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingbl...38&feedID=5212

Kidd Karma · 05-15-2012, 05:26 PM

Given that he's restricted, it will all depend on Portland any ways. Plus teams just dont like tying up cap space on something that's not a done deal, while other FA's are flying off the board in the interim.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Given that he's restricted, it will all depend on Portland any ways. Plus teams just dont like tying up cap space on something that's not a done deal, while other FA's are flying off the board in the interim.

Dallas has shown a knack for chasing those RFA tho. One positive with the CBA now is the waiting game has been reduced now. Teams had seven days to match an offer. The CBA changed it to where it is now only three days.

LonghornDub · 05-15-2012, 05:39 PM

Post your quote from Rick about making Dirk the second-best player, BG. Loved that.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Post your quote from Rick about making Dirk the second-best player, BG. Loved that.

He talked on GAC about how the staff will take a painstaking look at their roster and the rest of the league in terms of how they can really infuse the roster with talent.

One of the goals: "We’re going to do the best that we can to make [Dirk] our second best player…it’s a very exciting time for the franchise."

Just like the exit interview, he took an extremely optimistic approach to this summer. He's got a ton of faith in Mark and Donnie in making things work. The vibe I got from the interview resembled the comment Dirk made during his exit interview when Dirk said that Carlisle is basically a preparation freak. Carlisle said there are no vacations planned during this summer, all work time.

markus1234 · 05-15-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

"We’re going to do the best that we can to make [Dirk] our second best player…it’s a very exciting time for the franchise."

lol@Rick

Does he want to sign Lebron ?

They better find some guys who can be a true 2nd and 3rd best option...should be hard enough.

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2012, 07:07 PM

I like his thinking but looking out there, there isnt a single FA out there that I'd trade Dirk for (which I think is the true measure of whether or not a player is better than Dirk)

there are some stars and superstars out there for sure and its exciting but it irks me that Carlisle thinks there are players better than Dirk as much as it excites me that he is talking roster moves that big. He's not talking trading Diop for Hollins and Carroll.

We're talking about the third dynasty of the Cuban years ( after Nash/Finley/Dirk and Kidd/Terry/Dirk). Will it happen? Probably not but I like that they are thinking (and talking) big

Kidd Karma · 05-15-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I like his thinking but looking out there, there isnt a single FA out there that I'd trade Dirk for (which I think is the true measure of whether or not a player is better than Dirk)

there are some stars and superstars out there for sure and its exciting but it irks me that Carlisle thinks there are players better than Dirk as much as it excites me that he is talking roster moves that big. He's not talking trading Diop for Hollins and Carroll.

We're talking about the third dynasty of the Cuban years ( after Nash/Finley/Dirk and Kidd/Terry/Dirk). Will it happen? Probably not but I like that they are thinking (and talking) big

Agreed, also think RC's probably not limiting themselves to the FA market, with the cap space they can also make trades.

BGMaverick9 · 05-15-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Agreed, also think RC's probably not limiting themselves to the FA market, with the cap space they can also make trades.

That's the point I've always made when people freak out about maybe swinging and missing in free agency. The front office figured out how to build their team while being in cap hell. By getting under the cap, they could absorb junk to acquire a good player or stud.

Carlisle also referenced on multiple occasions that they view Odom's contract as a solid asset in the trade market.

Carlisle has been nothing but upbeat and very optimistic in how the front office will attack this summer.

rabbitproof · 05-15-2012, 09:41 PM

DWill visiting the gang in Russia doesn't make me feel cozy. Apparently AK is showing them the sights.

dude1394 · 05-15-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

For a guy with declining numbers every year and likely having to amnesty Haywood to create space for him, Kaman is not a guy I'd waste the amnesty on. Would I take low risk, low dollar flyer on him? Hell yes, but people are infatuated with what he was 3 seasons ago and not with what he is now. Also, blowing any substantive amount of cap space on Dragic is monumentally stupid and exactly what caused Detroit to blow big money on Villaneua and Gordon. Its going to take more money to sign them than what they've actually produced over the course of their careers.

We don't need a low-post scoring center. I was wrong in my quest for al Jefferson. Dirk is our low post scorer. We need a defensive guy who cannot be left alone because he has decent hands and preferably plays above the rim. Someone that ibaka for example cannot completely ignore while he waits in the paint on dirk.

Rick41 · 05-15-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

DWill visiting the gang in Russia doesn't make me feel cozy. Apparently AK is showing them the sights.

He's probably taking the opportunity of having a free trip to Russia while he can.

clutch#41 · 05-15-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

He's probably taking the opportunity of having a free trip to Russia while he can.

i was thinking the same thing haha.

dude1394 · 05-15-2012, 11:08 PM

I imagine rick is talking future. In two years there will probably be quite a few.

mavs777 · 05-15-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

We don't need a low-post scoring center. I was wrong in my quest for al Jefferson. Dirk is our low post scorer. We need a defensive guy who cannot be left alone because he has decent hands and preferably plays above the rim. Someone that ibaka for example cannot completely ignore while he waits in the paint on dirk.

Kaman's not a good defender anymore.

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Kaman's was never a good defender.

fixed

aexchange · 05-16-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

We don't need a low-post scoring center. I was wrong in my quest for al Jefferson. Dirk is our low post scorer. We need a defensive guy who cannot be left alone because he has decent hands and preferably plays above the rim. Someone that ibaka for example cannot completely ignore while he waits in the paint on dirk.

If the cost of that kind of option is $8-$9M who is limited defensively, then count me out. Kaman is not good defensively on the pick and roll and for a big man really isn't that strong around the basket. I just think the dude is horribly overrated here.

Kidd Karma · 05-16-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's the point I've always made when people freak out about maybe swinging and missing in free agency. The front office figured out how to build their team while being in cap hell. By getting under the cap, they could absorb junk to acquire a good player or stud.

Carlisle also referenced on multiple occasions that they view Odom's contract as a solid asset in the trade market.

Carlisle has been nothing but upbeat and very optimistic in how the front office will attack this summer.

Baron Davis went to Cleveland, along with an LAC lottery pick....resulting in Irving and Thompson. Yea, Odom's contract is like Stackhouse's where 2.4 is unguaranteed, but the cap number is 9 million.

Kidd Karma · 05-16-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

He's probably taking the opportunity of having a free trip to Russia while he can.

No worries it's only May 16, he can't stay in Russia until July 11....could he?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-16-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

No worries it's only May 16, he can't stay in Russia until July 11....could he?

If he gets to stay at Prokhorov's place, then I certainly would...

http://sharequotes.us/wp-content/upl...orov-House.jpg

LonghornDub · 05-16-2012, 04:16 PM

Stefan Bondy says D-Will is "looking for reasons to stay" in Brooklyn.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/net...deron-williams

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-16-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Stefan Bondy says D-Will is "looking for reasons to stay" in Brooklyn.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/net...deron-williams

That actually sounds strangely optimistic for us. If you have to try to find reasons at this point, then the Nets have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. They might, but it just seems so hard to envision Billy King doing all of the right moves to make that happen.

I really don't think he is going to make up his mind until he has to. The rumor winds will blow in all directions before all of this is over.

Kidd Karma · 05-16-2012, 05:10 PM

Hoopsworld lists us as amongst the 5 teams interested in Lin:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-wil...n-jeremy-lin-2

mavs777 · 05-16-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That actually sounds strangely optimistic for us. If you have to try to find reasons at this point, then the Nets have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. They might, but it just seems so hard to envision Billy King doing all of the right moves to make that happen.

I really don't think he is going to make up his mind until he has to. The rumor winds will blow in all directions before all of this is over.

Agreed, I don't think he has completley made up his mind yet either way, it will probably matter if nets can get something significant in draft day.

Underdog · 05-16-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Stefan Bondy says D-Will is "looking for reasons to stay" in Brooklyn.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/net...deron-williams

I love how they talk about the Mavs getting swept in the 1st round like it's a bad thing when the Nets are in a position where getting swept in the 1st round would have been the best season they've had in years...

LonghornDub · 05-16-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I love how they talk about the Mavs getting swept in the 1st round like it's a bad thing when the Nets are in a position where getting swept in the 1st round would have been the best season they've had in years...

Cracks me up too. I love hearing about how much "brighter" the Nets' future is. Perception is reality, I guess.

mavs777 · 05-16-2012, 05:46 PM

The last 5 years the nets are 116-268 (30.2 win %)

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-16-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

The last 5 years the nets are 116-268 (30.2 win %)

This should be the top of the Mavs pitch. If Deron is about winning, then staying a Net doesn't seem to make much sense.