2013-14 NBA Season: Random Thoughts Thread

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I seriously doubt the Knicks would consider a trade like that... especially if they have to give up Shumpert. The point of trading Tyson would be to get assets and cap relief... I could see something like Larkin/2nd for Tyson (wherein we absorb the contract into our cap space) or something similar to that... maybe add a signed-and-traded player to the deal too if they have interest in any of our free-agents-to-be, but taking all three of those old guys doesn't make much sense for the Knicks. I'd be more than happy to take Shumpert off their hands if they absolutely insisted, though. More likely they'd insist on us taking back JR or Bargs... both guys that would be deal-breakers for me.

I don't think that it's a viable future trade. But in terms of value at the trading deadline two weeks ago, it might have been fair.

Re: Shumpert--the NYKs do NOT like him. They've been rumored to be on the verge of shipping him out at least 3 times in the last 10 months. First, Dolan got permanently and irremediably miffed with him back in June/July because he (Shumpert) didn't want to play in the Summer League. Dolan was ready to trade him somewhere/anywhere then and there just to show him who was boss. Second, Shumpert was rumored to be on the trading block again to start the season, and some poor play and boneheaded, game-costing mistakes only intensified the NYKs' dissatisfaction with him. His attitude and performance also got him crossways with Woodson, who was looking for any available scapegoat. If Shumpert hadn't sprained his knee about a week before the trading deadline, I think it's quite likely he'd have been moved. And it's not that he doesn't have some ability/potential as a wing defender, but as always happens in New York even middling performance by a rookie leads to wild projections of stardom (cf Channing Frye, Landry Fields, Jeremy Lin). I've read a couple of allusions by local sportswriters that Shumpert himself seems to believe the hype, and appears to be prone to overestimating his own talent and his own value to the team. But given Dolan's pathological spitefulness, it seems almost certain that Shumpert will end up as a reclamation project for another team.

From the Mavericks' perspective, if Chandler wasn't worth the $$$ 2 years ago, he looks even less worth the money today and going forward. I very much appreciated the defensive mentality he brought to the Mavericks and to the NYKs, but he now looks older and more fragile than 31 years, and without a Kidd to spoon-feed him lobs, his offensive production is nil. If he stays reasonably healthy, he'll be able to help some team defensively, but at $15M, he's not a good value for what he brings, and especially not for the Mavs' current roster (sad to say).

As for what the Knicks want, it seems like trading Chandler would be for cap relief/flexibility, so I woulld think they'd be wanting multiple, smaller, expiring contracts rather than future assets/obligations. If they somehow fail to re-sign Anthony, then Chandler is of nearly no on-court value to them ever again. It's gotta be Rebuild City. Dalembert might be reasonably attractive as a backup center, but Marion's and Carter's contracts would be for pure contract-shedding. And obviously (as Dirk would say), it's moot now anyway.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I don't think that it's a viable future trade. But in terms of value at the trading deadline two weeks ago, it might have been fair.

Re: Shumpert--the NYKs do NOT like him. They've been rumored to be on the verge of shipping him out at least 3 times in the last 10 months. First, Dolan got permanently and irremediably miffed with him back in June/July because he (Shumpert) didn't want to play in the Summer League. Dolan was ready to trade him somewhere/anywhere then and there just to show him who was boss. Second, Shumpert was rumored to be on the trading block again to start the season, and some poor play and boneheaded, game-costing mistakes only intensified the NYKs' dissatisfaction with him. His attitude and performance also got him crossways with Woodson, who was looking for any available scapegoat. If Shumpert hadn't sprained his knee about a week before the trading deadline, I think it's quite likely he'd have been moved. And it's not that he doesn't have some ability/potential as a wing defender, but as always happens in New York even middling performance by a rookie leads to wild projections of stardom (cf Channing Frye, Landry Fields, Jeremy Lin). I've read a couple of allusions by local sportswriters that Shumpert himself seems to believe the hype, and appears to be prone to overestimating his own talent and his own value to the team. But given Dolan's pathological spitefulness, it seems almost certain that Shumpert will end up as a reclamation project for another team.

From the Mavericks' perspective, if Chandler wasn't worth the $$$ 2 years ago, he looks even less worth the money today and going forward. I very much appreciated the defensive mentality he brought to the Mavericks and to the NYKs, but he now looks older and more fragile than 31 years, and without a Kidd to spoon-feed him lobs, his offensive production is nil. If he stays reasonably healthy, he'll be able to help some team defensively, but at $15M, he's not a good value for what he brings, and especially not for the Mavs' current roster (sad to say).

As for what the Knicks want, it seems like trading Chandler would be for cap relief/flexibility, so I woulld think they'd be wanting multiple, smaller, expiring contracts rather than future assets/obligations. If they somehow fail to re-sign Anthony, then Chandler is of nearly no on-court value to them ever again. It's gotta be Rebuild City. Dalembert might be reasonably attractive as a backup center, but Marion's and Carter's contracts would be for pure contract-shedding. And obviously (as Dirk would say), it's moot now anyway.

All I'm saying is, if you think that is how we'd trade for Tyson, there's no reason for the Knicks to do that. They'd basically be getting very little cap relief this year if they traded for the three guys that you mentioned, all of whom we'd have to re-sign first with the agreement that we're doing sign-and-trades with all three of them. If the Knicks were really rebuilding, they'd trade Chandler for as little salary they can take back as possible, unless we sent them a first-round pick. And I don't really want to do that. I'd much rather send them our best prospect (Larkin, who fills a positional need for the Knicks) and a lower draft pick... if we played our cards right, we could probably get both Marion and Vince to come back next season as backups and spend whatever remaining cap space on more versatile wing players. Hell, we might even get a late-season hot streak from Monta that boosts his trade value so we could even move him for a piece that complements Calderon's game a little better. I think a move that replaces Monta at the two and gives Calderon more control over the offense would mitigate the loss of Monta's shot-creating ability.

Or hell, if they would do it, I'd trade Monta for Tyson in a heartbeat just to get our cap a little more situated going into free agency.

[dirt_dobber]

After Lakers train wreck of a game in last nights loss to the Clippers by 48 is Jim Buss of the Lakers the equivalent to Tommy Boy?

[Jack.Kerr]

A little extra on NYKs and Shumpert: Apparently, the NYKs were dangling Shumpert between OKC and LAC at the trade deadline. The NYKs were also trying to attach Raymond Felton's contract (2 more years @ ~$4M per) to any Shumpert deal. OKC was offering their #1 draft pick, which figures to be in the 26-30th pick range, but Dolan/NYKs wanted a flesh-and-blood contributing player (a PG) in addition to help the NYKs in their quest for the 8th-seed playoff spot (along with the certain first round drubbing that would come with it). Delusional?

The Clippers, on the other hand, were offering Darren Collison, Matt Barnes, Byron Mullens, and two #2s for Shumpert, Felton and Udrih.

Shumpert sprains a knee the Wednesday against the Pelicans before the trading deadline on Thursday, and with projections that he could be out at least two weeks, the Clippers cool on the deal. (Shumpert was back in the lineup 11 days after the injury).

Back in December, Dolan reportedly quashed a deal at the last minute that would've sent Felton, World Peace and either Shumpert, Hardaway, Jr, or a future #1 to the Raptors for Kyle Lowry. Dolan nixes the deal (reportedly because he was hesitant to deal with Toronto GM Ujiri, who'd fleeced him in the Carmelo Anthony trade) and the next night Priggioni breaks a toe. Then Felton has hamstring, groin and gun problems.

Hard to say categorically whether Dolan is just dumb, or chronically snake-bitten, but it's tough to imagine Phil Jackson working for him, unless PJ's compensation starts at low 9 figures. From Jackson's perspective, I'm guessing he hopes Dolan is just dumb.

[LSMF]

Great to see my boy Gerald Green burning the OKC Thunder (Look at them walking off the court butthurt after), I've always believed in him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvR1x3PJmIw

[GermanDunk]

107 : 110 OKC - LAL

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

107 : 110 OKC - LAL

Not bad for a team that gave up a combined 408 points over the previous 3 games...

[GermanDunk]

Suns lead. Eek.

[GermanDunk]

Pft. Suns by 7 over the Detlef Globetrotters

[dirt_dobber]

Spurs 103 - Trailblazers 90
Popovich yelled at official David Guthrie a minute into the game over a perceived missed call, prompting Stotts to smile and tease his counterpart. `'If he's going to start yelling now, so am I," Stotts said.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400489838

[alby]

We really should get into Gerald Green a bit. He's playing out of his mind this year. Is he the MIP? Or is that Unibrow?

[Jack.Kerr]

Three fairly significant stories out of the NBA Owners, Management, Coaches File over the last couple of weeks:

1) East Coast Jackson: Phil takes NYC and Madison Garden. Anybody think he can turn the NYKs around? How long will it take? Key moves? First move--Kerr (Steve, not Jack) as coach? Re-sign Carmelo? Trade Chandler? The Triangle offense?

2)West Coast Jackson: GSW coach Mark Jackson demotes/re-assigns 3rd assistant (that's right...3RD ASSISTANT) Mark Scalabrine 71 games into the season because of "philosophical differences". (Question: Do 3rd assistants even have philosophies?) Jackson also had a similarly curious (and reportedly acrimonious) parting of the ways last year with Mike Malone, who left to become the head coach of the Kings. Mike Malone (son of former NBA head coach Brendan Malone) was named NBA Assistant Coach of the year in 2012 by NBA GMs, and was reportedly the highest-paid assistant in the NBA. Relations between Jackson and Malone had reportedly deteriorated to the point that they went weeks during the NBA season without talking to one another directly.

Scalabrine was hired by Jackson last year, and his work was reportedly well-regarded within the Warriors organization, so much so that instead of firing him outright, ownership chose to re-assign him within the organization.

Mark Jackson's repeated inability to co-exist with highly regarded assistants comes as Jackson appears to be headed into the final year of his contract, with NO talk of an extension. Jackson is rumored to have probed for interest in both the Clippers and the Nets jobs in the last several months, as well as the NYKs soon-to-be vacant position. Jackson has taken heavy criticism in 2013-14 for what GS management considers to be an underperforming collection of talent. While Jackson is credited for instilling a defensive awareness to the Warriors, he is regarded primarily as a motivator. He is poorly regarded as a tactician, game manager, and in-game decision maker, and is taking a lot of heat for lack of an offensive system. (...cough....Avery...cough....Johnson....cough)

Also, his wife (the one he cheated on with the pole-dancing stripper who subsequently blackmailed him) cannot sing.

3) Not so fast, Ivan: NBA Brooklyn Nyets owner Mikhail Prokhorov is rumored to be preparing to re-locate the company that is the ownership entity for the Nyets to Russia, in the wake of Putin's calls for repatriation of American-held assets in response to recent economic sanctions imposed against Russia by the United States. The NBA says no one told them anything about it.

Prokhorov, who bought a majority stake in the Nets in 2010, had signaled an intention to run for office again in Russia (he ran for president in 2012) but has found an obstacle in a new law Putin enacted that bars candidates with foreign assets from running in elections.

On Monday, Prokhorov was one of several people honored by Putin in Moscow for their roles in the staging of the Sochi Games. Prokhorov served as president of the Russian Biathlon Team. In conjunction with the ceremony Prokhorov spoke to the media. “A Russian company will own the basketball club,” Prokhorov said according to the Reuters news agency. “This (move) does not violate any NBA rules and I will bring it (under Russian jurisdiction) in accordance with Russian law.”

But the NBA issued a statement soon after that saying that the league had “received no application nor is there a process underway through our office to transfer the ownership of the Nets to another company.”

[mac222b]

Anyone else see that bullshit in the Heat-Pacers game. Ref threw Stephenson out after Wade whined about Stephenson saying something to him in passing. After Chalmers tried to trip Stepehenson. Then cheap foul call on the other end against West, two ft's for Rashard Lewis.

[mac222b]

Wow. Can't wait for Pacers-Heat in the playoffs.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Wow. Can't wait for Pacers-Heat in the playoffs.

Yawn... The first round in the West will probably be more interesting.

[twelli]

I liked what I saw from Reggie Jackson last night. This is the type of player I like to watch, versatile, has range, finds his teammates, makes smart decisions, and has some surprising moves. Wouldn't mind to see him in Mavs uniform some day.

[GermanDunk]

F the Sp**s

[EricaLubarsky]

Mavs go from 8th to 7th without playing

Grizz go from 9th to 8th with a win

Phoenix goes from 7th to 9th without playing a game.

[GermanDunk]

Vikings beat Miami on 2 OTs

[EricaLubarsky]

Joe Dumars out according to rumors.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Joe Dumars out according to rumors.

That was imminent the second the ink dried on the Josh Smith deal.

[TripleDipping]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That was imminent the second the ink dried on the Josh Smith deal.

I thought the clock pretty much started ticking the moment he decided to draft Darko Milicic.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by TripleDipping

I thought the clock pretty much started ticking the moment he decided to draft Darko Milicic.

Wasn't quite imminent at that point since the Pistons were still good. He shoulda been fired after the Gordon and Villanueva contracts.

[Jack.Kerr]

Steve Nash overtakes Mark Jackson for 3rd on NBA All-Time Assists List.

Well done, Nashty.

[EricaLubarsky]

145 in 48 min? Is that a record?

[HopeIsAlwaysThere]

And now Spurs are resting Duncan and Ginobili, Popovich is such a twat.

[dude1394]

Holy crap Corey brewer scores 51! Am I in the twilight zone?

[EricaLubarsky]

Dieng with 12-20-2 as well.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dieng with 12-20-2 as well.

Not to mention the game-winner.

[Underdog]

Dieng was my top offseason choice, but Larkin did make sense considering we had ZERO guards on the roster when we drafted him... Not that center was much better, but at least we had Wright (not technically, but his re-signing seemed to be a fairly obvious foregone conclusion).

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Ugh, the Dieng thing is depressing...

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Holy crap Corey brewer scores 51! Am I in the twilight zone?

He was one of the affordable pieces from the 2011 team that I was very upset to be losing. He was mostly good during his time with Denver but this year he was an open court freak in Minnesota.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Ugh, the Dieng thing is depressing...

There has to be consequences when you sell your soul to the devil.

Cuban got one of the best players of all time, and now he's paying. Every player Cubes had or passed on is exploding.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

There has to be consequences when you sell your soul to the devil.

Cuban got one of the best players of all time, and now he's paying. Every player Cubes had or passed on is exploding.

LOL. Cuban didn't luck into Dirk though. The Mavs did. This is just poor work by our GM. From the guys we've passed up on to the guys we gave up. And Brewer...even excluding his 51 point game....I never understood why we just literally gave him and Rudy Fernandez away. It goes back to that pipe dream of Deron and Dwight I guess.....

[Jack.Kerr]

Portland defeats GSW in OT, 119-117, despite Curry's 47 pts.

GSW record: 49-31. DAL record 49-32, a half-game back.

GSW with games v. MIN, and @ DEN. They'll probably win at least one of those, probably both; but if they somehow end up tied with the Mavericks, that missed goaltending call is gonna be stuck in my craw for awhile longer.

Thanks for nothin', Eric Dalen, Sean Corbin, Dan Crawford, and NBA.

[Underdog]

The Suns missed out on the playoffs with a 47-34 record and 1 more game left to play... They'd currently be 5th in the East, with a possibility of going as high as the 3rd seed before the season ended (depending on how tie-breakers panned out).

That very well could've been our Mavs... Be thankful that it wasn't.

[Jack.Kerr]

Woodson out with the NYKs.

I think he's getting an unfair rap by some clueless sportswriters who overlook the badly constructed roster he had to deal with, management instability just before the season started, trying to transition the team from D'Amnedphony's worthless run-and-gun game, a grossly overrated player around whom the team was anchored (Carmella), and injured and/or under-performing players at every position up and down the roster (Chandler, Stoudemire, Felton, Bargnani, Smith...every damned one of them). No way Woodson should be fired based on performance.

However, it seems perfectly fair for the organization to say "New management, new direction, new philosophy, new coaching staff. Thank you for your service."

Pay the man the last year of his contract, give him a good recommendation, and let him walk out of the building without a security guard escorting him. He gave the NYKs and honest year's work. No need to tear down his reputation.

[EricaLubarsky]

Yet another call that the NBA admitted it blew in the Portland game. I'm not sure I like this league anymore and I'm not sure if I liked it more when the NBA was "infallible" or now when they come out every other game to say that the game should have been won by the other team had it not been for the thugs in black and white.

[Jack.Kerr]

Phil Jackson to Carmella Anthony: Howz about a paycut?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Phil Jackson to Carmella Anthony: Howz about a paycut?

Carmello: you show respect by paying me. I'll listen to the Bucks' offer and be bad with them next year.