damp traded for tyson chandler - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

grndmstr_c · 07-13-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

And a week later we trade the dust chip for Chandler? Am I missing something here?

Yes. Yes you are.

FINtastic · 07-13-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am not sure why Kidd can't go to the bench. Kidd alluded to it this summer.
The article talks out of both sides of the writers mouth -- a Kidd, Roddy backcourt then says, "Beaubois will focus primarily on developing as a point guard this offseason"

If he develops as the point guard...ala Devin Harris -- then Kidd can keep his legs fresh for playoff time.

I think you are expecting a lot out of a player with an assist to turnover ratio of 4.0 to 5.3 in summer league play.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

We get a roster upgrade and a valuable contract

Roster upgrade is debatable. When's the last time Chandler been healthy? As far as his contract goes, are we banking on a Gasol-esque deal at the deadline? Is there one out there?

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

The thing is though, he is a very talented 2 right now, why force him to play a position that he isn't comfortable at?

I'm not suggesting that he only play the PG. BUT they have to try and work him into that role before giving up on it and ending up with a JET type tweener.

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Avalon

Hmmmm so we are getting a 6.8 mil Trade exception in this deal. If i'm reading trollinger's report correctly.

that def. makes this trade better. assuming we get a chance to use it

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Yes. Yes you are.

*Waiting for you or someone to tell me what i'm missing....*

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

And a week later we trade the dust chip for Chandler? Am I missing something here?

You're missing the significance of having 30+ million dollars of expiring contracts to move at the deadline THIS up coming season. That is huge.

Our hope is that this will be a case of patience proving to be a worthwhile virtue.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

This is what disturbs me. This is basically another year we're throwing way. I feel the league is wide open. Yea i'm not sold on the Heat even though I should be but in my eyes the league is wide open.

And if we're banking on another trade at the deadline? At what point is enough enough? We've done this every year for the past couple of seasons. Its just rare for a team to make a trade and gain that chemistry it takes to win a championship. I know the Pistons did it with Sheed. And I can't remember if the Rockets got Drexler at midseason but aside from those two I can't remember the last time a team traded at midseason and had enough chemistry to win a ring.

There's where part of your trouble lies.

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm not suggesting that he only play the PG. BUT they have to try and work him into that role before giving up on it and ending up with a JET type tweener.

Do you really want to get started on this? Roddy takes the ball to the rack a lot more than Jet and plays defense better than Jet

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

There's where part of your trouble lies.

Who's the run away favorite? And I mean in your opinion. I know what BSPN feels and bandwagon Heat fans feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

You're missing the significance of having 30+ million dollars of expiring contracts to move at the deadline THIS up coming season. That is huge.

Our hope is that this will be a case of patience proving to be a worthwhile virtue.

So basically we're throwing this season away in hope of a prayer at the deadline? That's what doesn't sit well with me. But I guess there's not much of a alternative at this point. I'm hoping its not a Kaman/Baron or a Iggy/Brand type deal that we're waiting for.

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Roster upgrade is debatable. When's the last time Chandler been healthy? As far as his contract goes, are we banking on a Gasol-esque deal at the deadline? Is there one out there?

There isn't a debate. As for your ? 2007-2008. I like the chances of Kaman being available if Jordan and Griffen devolop and Clippers are bad like they always are

mavs777 · 07-13-2010, 05:21 PM

In the east its Miami, Orlando, and Boston
In the west its Lakers, Dallas, and Denver jmo

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

There isn't a debate. As for your ? 2007-2008. I like the chances of Kaman being available if Jordan and Griffen devolop and Clippers are bad like they always are

Roster upgrade is debatable. Chandler is a better player than Damp but what good is that when he's on the IR and he's frail?

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So basically we're throwing this season away in hope of a prayer at the deadline? That's what doesn't sit well with me. But I guess there's not much of a alternative at this point. I'm hoping its not a Kaman/Baron or a Iggy/Brand type deal that we're waiting for.

I would suggest that 30+mil is more than a "prayer".

I think the Kaman dream ended when they signed Haywood.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Fish said that the Mavs think Chandler is indeed healthy. That does add value to this IMO. They didn't seem to have that same faith in Jefferson's health it seemed.

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Roster upgrade is debatable. Chandler is a better player than Damp but what good is that when he's on the IR and he's frail?

Donnie really stuck his neck out saying that Chandler is "Healthy as a horse"...and reiterated that they were VERY thorough in making sure of it.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I would suggest that 30+mil is more than a "prayer".

I think the Kaman dream ended when they signed Haywood.

Well what type of player do we have in mind. Because when I see 30 million dollar cap relief I immediately think of Chris Paul and that's why I feel its a prayer. At this point the move doesn't make sense unless its for a 1st tier caliber player and that's why I feel its a prayer.

sike · 07-13-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Well what type of player do we have in mind. Because when I see 30 million dollar cap relief I immediately think of Chris Paul and that's why I feel its a prayer. At this point the move doesn't make sense unless its for a 1st tier caliber player and that's why I feel its a prayer.

I'm not the guy with the names...

But I totally agree, it MUST be a top tier guy or 2 second tier guys.

I also agree that this MUST happen in order for Cubes to keep his word to Dirk.

But at least now the Mavs look to be in the running to do just about whatever kind of trade that can be made. And lets be honest, our FO is MUCH better at working out trades than signing free agents.

Rick41 · 07-13-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

This current set of players will certainly put to test Carlisle's weakness at developing a set line up...

I'm embracing myself for this.

Janett_Reno · 07-13-2010, 05:35 PM

Good job Mark Cuban. If Chandler & Haywood can stay healthy. Grab Al Harrington Mark. The man can play and he has size and your team and bench is stacked. One way to punish the Heat(they can't get deep) and Cuban sees this, get very deep with talent. Make Wade, Bosh, Lebron play every second of all the games. See how they fair in the playoffs. As good and great as the Lakers are, Kobe logged alot of minutes. I still pick the Lakers over the Heat but the direction we are going, i am starting to think we can compete with the Lakers.

It would be great to add Harrington and slip in either Barnes or Raja(if he can still play). If not, get Harrington and keep the theme going, tall. Al is hard to defend.

As far as the starting line up. I agree, this will be tough but alot of these guys can see what many players are doing, stacking a team for a title. Some are seeing, with my age, is money number one or is a title? I think Harrington signs in the west with Dallas, Denver or Utah with an outside shot at Orlando.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Do you really want to get started on this? Roddy takes the ball to the rack a lot more than Jet and plays defense better than Jet

I'm not sure you know what is going on. I friggen agreed with BG about Roddy not being ready for PG position in fact I mentioned it after one of teh summer league games myself. Get started on what? Where are you trying to go? If it's gonna be you rambling on again about god knows what, then count me out.

#41 · 07-13-2010, 05:48 PM

We're done.
I still like our team.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 05:49 PM

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

That's 14 players out of a possible 15, right?

Not that it matters - but if it were me

Haywood, Chandler, Mahinmi, Ajinca
Dirk, Harrington
Marion, Butler, Stevenson
Roddy, Jet, Dojo
Kidd, Barea

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

And size counts in the NBA. I'm looking at a pretty decent defensive roster as well.

lol at Barea.

jthig32 · 07-13-2010, 05:59 PM

Here's Hollinger's take.

Quote:

I'd like to congratulate Michael Jordan on being the first executive in history to avoid saving money in a salary dump. Tyson Chandler and Alexis Ajinca have one year left at a combined $14.1 million, while Eduardo Najera and Matt Carroll are owed a combined $17.1 million over the next three years. Throw in cash (presumably the maximum allowable $3 million) from Dallas, and the Bobcats managed to break even while giving away their starting center for two guys who will occupy seats 11 and 12 at the end of the bench. Strike up the band.

For those who haven't heard, Charlotte traded Chandler and Ajinca to Dallas on Tuesday for two of the deadest-weight contracts in the league (Najera and Carroll), cash and the nonguaranteed contract of Erick Dampier. I still have no idea why.

If the Bobcats flip Dampier for something of greater value than Chandler, I'll take it all back, but it doesn't appear they're set to do that. Instead, they robbed Peter to pay Paul, cutting $8 million off the current year's payroll but taking it on in future years. Among other casualties, this deal basically kills whatever slim hope they had of getting under the cap in 2011.

Coming on the heels of an equally jarring scheme to trade Chandler and Boris Diaw to Toronto for Jose Calderon, it's not clear whether "His Airness" and his hand-picked staff have a plan or, if so, what that plan might entail. I thought this kind of silliness in Charlotte would stop when Robert Johnson sold the team, but I guess not.

As for Dallas, I thought it was a better deal than they've been given credit for. Look, we all want our team to hit a home run, but sometimes it's just as important to keep hitting singles.

And for once, the Mavericks stopped swinging for the fences and made a sensible deal that greases the skids for others down the road. By trading Dampier's nonguaranteed contract, along with Carroll and Najera, to Charlotte for Chandler, the Mavs greatly improved their financial flexibility going forward and did little harm to their prospects in the short term.

First, however, we have to discuss the alternative: Dallas could have gone for the home run and traded Dampier, along with two first-round picks, to Minnesota for Al Jefferson. This would have been a classic Mavs move, akin to recent trades for Jason Kidd, Caron Butler and Shawn Marion, but the pieces didn't fit. Jefferson and Dirk Nowitzki would have been terrible partners on the defensive end, and offensively Jefferson was never going to get the rock enough in the post with all the scoring-minded players around him.

What Dallas really needs to vault itself to elite status is a first-rate perimeter player; at the moment, the Mavs man those positions with several 30-something former stars but no current ones. With none available to be had with the Dampier contract, they did the next best thing.

By adding Chandler, the Mavs retain the rights to a top defensive center. Additionally, he has a $12 million expiring contract, which gives the Mavs maximum flexibility to pursue other trades during the course of the season. No, it isn't quite as alluring as being able to waive Dampier and clean the books entirely, but it's a useful asset.

Additionally, two other factors have been underrated. First, dumping Carroll and Najera helps the Mavs' flexibility going forward by subtracting $6.5 million in dead weight from the 2011-12 payroll. If somehow things go off the rails this year, Dallas could very easily get itself well under the cap next summer -- words that have been rarely spoken around Big D in the Mark Cuban era.

Second, the Mavs walk away with two trade exceptions worth a combined $6.4 million -- enough to land a fairly good player if the right deal comes along.

So it's not the Pau Gasol trade. But it's something. The Mavs have a top-notch defensive frontcourt with Chandler and Brendan Haywood, and they've left open a number of options for pursuing roster upgrades during the course of the season.

One minor quibble: Those two trade exceptions can NOT be combined to take on one full salary. So they're not very useful. But the rest of the article is spot on imo.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Who's the run away favorite? And I mean in your opinion. I know what BSPN feels and bandwagon Heat fans feel.

We can't beat the Lakers and it really doesn't matter what place we come in behind them. After the Laker it's pretty debatable where we fall imo. If something wild happened and we made it to the finals, I also don't think we can beat Orlando, Miami,Boston.

Quote:

So basically we're throwing this season away in hope of a prayer at the deadline? That's what doesn't sit well with me. But I guess there's not much of a alternative at this point. I'm hoping its not a Kaman/Baron or a Iggy/Brand type deal that we're waiting for.

IF Chandler is as Donnie and co say he is, Healthy, the roster is quite an upgrade from last year. Also, if you think the league is wide open, why look at it as throwing this season away? What deals did we miss out on and are you at all keeping in mind what it would cost us to obtain your "magic player" that we missed out on

. I think it's probably more like we are keeping our options open WHILE hoping that Chandler returns to form.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

I'd like to congratulate Michael Jordan on being the first executive in history to avoid saving money in a salary dump. Tyson Chandler and Alexis Ajinca have one year left at a combined $14.1 million, while Eduardo Najera and Matt Carroll are owed a combined $17.1 million over the next three years. Throw in cash (presumably the maximum allowable $3 million) from Dallas, and the Bobcats managed to break even while giving away their starting center for two guys who will occupy seats 11 and 12 at the end of the bench. Strike up the band.

lol

That corny guy from 'Dancing with the Stars' - 1

Best NBA player ever - 0

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 06:06 PM

That is a pretty darn good article by Hollinger.

monty55555 · 07-13-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

LOL. Good one.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

Yeah, but not a one of them are a proven solid SG.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yeah, but not a one of them are a proven solid SG.

Andre Iguodala 6'6"

rabbitproof · 07-13-2010, 06:35 PM

Hey! Najera had bench 10... Stevenson had bench seat 11. Get it right, Hollinger!

Can someone explain how we're getting the TEs?

I get we get something for Najera, the swap-a-TE thing. Where is the other 3-4M coming from?

rabbitproof · 07-13-2010, 06:36 PM

Can't rep UD but haha.

Lin for #15.

MavsX · 07-13-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we add Harrington, then we're looking at one very tall team:

Chandler 7'1"
Ajinca 7'1"
Nowitzki 7'0"
Haywood 7'0"
Mahinmi 6'11"
Harrington 6'9"
Marion 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Stevenson 6'5"
Kidd 6'4"
Jones 6'4"
Terry 6'2"
Beaubois 6'0"
Barea 4'0"

LMAO hahahaha Barea 4'0"

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Can't rep UD but haha.

Lin for #15.

I REALLY like Lin and what he has brought to the table during the Summer League. He's shown me enough to think he can make it on an NBA roster.

sike · 07-13-2010, 06:42 PM

UD's had two good lines on this page...but can't rep him yet.

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 06:44 PM

Just think...this deal would've never happened if Charlotte didn't back out of their deal with Toronto.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Not so much - because the one person that could probably help us the most from last year to this year is still getting very little playing time in this logjam (Roddy).

Basically, you are looking at the exact same team except you have added Tyson Chandler in place of Dampier and you have added Al Harrington. Those look like positive moves, and normally would be, but one guy looks to just be trade fodder (though athletic trade fodder that will help us for the first half) and the other is a backup. Or Marion is the backup and you start Al and Caron. Or Marion and Caron is the backup and you start Roddy and Al. Or.................

This team has no structure right now. Just a lot of bodies. Our current Mavs team is the equivalent of trying to turn 2 Bs into an A.

Yes, it is a bit chaotic. I'd love to dump Terry to free up some more minutes.

But Roddy could potentially get a ton of minutes if he proves he can be a point guard. Kidd is 37 and I can't imagine that he'd be wanting to play 40 minutes a night. If we can keep him to about 30 a game, that's 18 minutes for Roddy right there, because I don't care what happens, Roddy better be able to beat out Barea.

If Roddy can't prove that, and has to spend time at the 2...that's when we really have a log jam. But pretending we've signed Harrington and do nothing else, and if Roddy can play the 1, then we've got the minutes to give to everyone, with only a little bit of pinching.

Kidd 30 | Roddy 18
Butler 26 | Terry 22
Marion 28 | Harrington 16 | Butler 4
Dirk 36 | Harrington 12
Haywood 30 | Chandler 18

Kidd 30, Roddy 18, Butler 30, Terry 22, Marion 28, Harrington 28, Dirk 36, Harrington 28, Chandler 18

I don't think that's too unrealistic. This is dependent on Roddy learning the 1, but if he can, we've got enough room to play everyone, though granted a couple minutes less than I'd like.

Now, if Roddy can't be trusted to run the point? Then yes, our minutes are going to be totally screwed and we're going to have to make a move, or have Roddy playing 8 a night and JJ playing 12 (and Kidd still playing 34-36). And that's why I want to get rid of JET, freeing up minutes for Roddy at the 2 if necessary, and giving Butler and Marion a couple minutes more each or so. It wouldn't be terrible to pick up another Rasual Butler or Raja Bell type swingman for the 2 with one of those trade exceptions, either, if possible, to use up some of Terry's minutes (say 12 a night) but not all.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

UD's had two good lines on this page...but can't rep him yet.

I know, same here.

UD, stop being so funny. Then I won't feel bad when I can't rep you.