Josh Edgy About Contract Status - Mike Fisher / DallasBasketball.com - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 10-10-2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

You do realize josh isnt even close to any of those players right? I understand you are saying lets see if he can get there but i would put about .01% chance of that happening.

Hehe - haven't you noticed that my name is UNDERDOG??? .01% is all I need to be a beliver!

Underdog · 10-10-2006, 06:53 AM

Also, this thread really crapped out after the first page... Only Chumdawg & I were able to decipher Credit's bizarre "terminology", so most of the posts were based on miscommunication & ended up becoming a pissing contest... Can we let this thread die?

DLord · 10-10-2006, 07:21 AM

Back to topic, perhaps? A few facts? Let me toss some points into the mix.

1. The concept offered here that Josh Howard didn't have plays run for him last year is one of those "common wisdom" things. But it's wrong. In fact, if you watch the games, it was blatantly obvious that he was getting plays called for him.

(I'll let you guys debate why a self-proclaimed expert didn't recognize that.)

Last season Josh was promoted from "garbage man" so to speak. That's according to Josh, to Avery, and according to what my "non-professional athlete" eyes saw in the games.

The point - other than to set the record straight - is that Josh isn't going to some day blow up offensively when they begin to run plays for him. That change has already occurred.

I am on record as noting that I think he still has lots of upside in his game. I truly think he has a great shot at being an All-Star, in fact. (This year.) But for the record, he's already been integrated into being a regular part of the offense. His production is not a victim of being "held back" so to speak. From here, it's more about growth in personal skills.

2. All the blather about how important Josh is, and so on, and who knows what about basketball here and so on, were only subpoints. There was a bigger point being made, that everyone just ignored. But it goes back to the issue underlying this thread.

The point was this: we are being told here that there are massive and complex CBA restrictions that would prevent Josh Howard from getting his money, even if the Mavs want to pay it. Here's the quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Howard should get 8-10 million a year with this new contract, but there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

I believe I understand the CBA well. (Those of you who frequently read my work, I'll let you be the final judge of whether I am ahead of or behind the curve on those issues.) Obviously I recognize there are tax issues at play - as there are in every deal. I also understand contractual issues including bonuses, incentives, and the cap and tax implications.

But I don't see the big intimidating boogeyman that would hold up this deal if the parties could agree on a number.

If the Mavs wanted to sign Josh to an extension right now, I want to hear what are (supposedly) the restrictions that are killing the deal. Because I dont see any issue unless it is tax-related (and of course the issue of being unable to agree on a number). And those tax issues could actually be worsened by waiting a year, if Josh has a better year and merits an even bigger payday as a result.

DL

V2M · 10-10-2006, 07:48 AM

I think it's an issue more of a contract in the range of $50m/5yr now OR a $60m/6yr next summer. Josh may have been wanting numbers more in the range of Jet's ($57m) but that's over 6yrs and unfortunately the CBA doesn't allow us to go that long now.

Josh is 26 already and will turn 27 before the season ends. This could be his best chance to get a big deal for himself. If he waits until next year and, as Chum suggested, takes just a qualifying offer and become an UFA... he'll be 28 by then, and putting himself at serious risk of never landing that big deal.

I believe, just considering all options, such as his age, contractual restrictions, team position, risk of an injury, etc., there's a better than 50% chance that the deal gets done before Oct 31. And I believe it'll be more in the range of $50m/5yr (may be +/- 3m).

dalmations202 · 10-10-2006, 07:52 AM

I am guessing that the Mavs are offering 7.5M-8M a year, and Josh is wanting alot closer to the 10M a year range.

Just a guess though.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

mark my words, that aint happening unless its purely because the media decides dallas needs a second all star. Forward is just too loaded in the west with people who are so clearly better than josh.

Forwards CLEARLY better than josh with no room for argument by even the biggest josh howard homer,

Dirk
Duncan
KG
Marion
Brand
Melo
Tmac(they list him as a 3)
AK
Boozer

People who are better but a howard homer could make an argument for
Odom
Diaw(you might not have to quite be a full on homer to make this one)

So which of those guys do you see him beating and Im certain i still missed a few since im tired, im going to sleep ill check back in the mornin.

Coaches I think will list him in a position that allows him to make it to the All-Star status. Dirk/Duncan/KG will be listed as PF or Center. No Howard will not make the All-Star team by fan voting, which is about player positions. Howard will make it from the coaches vote. Coaches vote about like a player would vote on another player.

This is where Marion usually slides into All-star status. It is the intangibles a player brings. That is why some of us say "Superstars" cancel each other. You cant stop a "Superstar". You just have to play to not let the "MIP" (My definition) beat you. The Heat did not stop Dirk, they just did not allow him to be "Superman". "Robin" is the one they decided to stop. In that series, it was "Terry". They constantly ran at him for his outside jumper. Terry was stopped, because our real "MIP" (Howard) was not able to play his role because of the injury to his hand. JMVHO...

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

The way you first stated that you knew about basketball 501 and we didn't gave that impression to everyone even if you didn't neccesarily mean that. I read through your point, I understand it, and I disagree with it although I still think it is unclear. I didn't call you any names, but I do think that some of your points were not very good ones, but that's my opinion. I understand that you are probably knowledgeable about the Mavs and basketball, but so far you aren't giving us a very good first impression.

Thats because my statement disagreed with your opinion. To me, your statements did not give me a good first impression of yourself and some others. First impressions go both ways here and in life. Seems to me that you think you are the almighty and I must bow to you or something. Thats not going to happen.

As for you understanding, you never did understand, so you dont agree with me. Plan and simple. You need to learn to agree to disagree. Look at Chumdawg post that broke down what I was saying. If you disagree with that, then we both disagree. Dont worry about my posts, look at that one post to tell me if you agree or not.

If not, so be it. I will just shred through your posts the same way. So far, on this thread I got a good first impression from two of you on this thread. The rest seems more to me about regular fan type talkers. Which is about your own personal viewpoints, and if a post does not line up with it, then you throw darts at it.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Interesting. I haven't followed him that closely since he left the cozy confines of the AAC. I just know that he had a WAY bigger leash on him than five threes a game, when he was here.

Still and all, I think the comparison is apt. On this team, anyway. I remember watching Josh in summer league, the year after his rookie season, when they were working on his outside shot...and thinking: This kid could average 20 in the league, no problem.

But he's never been given that sort of freedom, and I don't expect that he's going to start receiving it now.

Jamison's outside game opened up when he went to th Wizards. I too would agree that his outside game has always been suspect until the last 2 years. I think this is the year that AJ opens up Howard to do more on offense. Actually, I know that there are new set plays for Howard this year. The real question to me, is if AJ will make sure to establish Howard in the 2nd half. Howard would be a first team All-Star if we voted according to first half stats. It is the 2nd half, that the Mavs dont use him. I would like to see Howard's scoring go up to 20, while Terry stay the same.

V2M · 10-10-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am guessing that the Mavs are offering 7.5M-8M a year, and Josh is wanting alot closer to the 10M a year range.

Just a guess though.

If Terry could get $9.5M a year without a hassle, I think it's unfair to value Josh in the 7.5M-8M a year.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The nagging doubt is that this isn't the contract year, but the next one is. He could choose to play the '08 season for the qualifying offer and then be unrestricted, if he and his agent thought that would ultimately be more profitable. Lot of moving parts there.

I tend to think that he wouldn't go that route, and the Mavs would take care of him. But the fact that they haven't already is enough cause for concern.

Please dont be concerned, this is normal procedures in the nba. It has to happen like this to get the most from Howard. If they renew him now, Howard will play like he has nothing more to prove. This is why the Mavs should have waited another year to give Daniels that type of money. Howard needs to play with a chip on his shoulder all year long. He needs to audition for the entire nba. If he does, then the Mavs will reward him accordingly.

This is a good thing for the Mavs, but not so good for the player. This year will tell you what kind of fiber Howard has. Howard has to be able to contain himself and be his normal self. There is no doubt that the Mavs are in the drivers seat. In the eyes of Howard he wants to be paid now, and also remembers that the Mavs said he was one of the top priorities and now it seems that it was all a lie. This is normal nba stuff.

Now if Howard was the MVP, this would had been taken care of with a shorter contract extension like Wade and Lebron's contracts. This time should make Howard even more hungry. This is what I want and expect, which will bring my prediction for him to light.

mary · 10-10-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Apparently (even though he compared the two) he meant OTHER than Dirk. I guess we were suppose to "get" that.

Its called "Backtracking 501"

Zing!!!!

fluid.forty.one · 10-10-2006, 08:41 AM

there is NO way that Josh Howard makes the all star team over the people five-o listed

I'll be sure to bump this again during All-Star weekend.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

Back to topic, perhaps? A few facts? Let me toss some points into the mix.

1. The concept offered here that Josh Howard didn't have plays run for him last year is one of those "common wisdom" things. But it's wrong. In fact, if you watch the games, it was blatantly obvious that he was getting plays called for him.

(I'll let you guys debate why a self-proclaimed expert didn't recognize that.)

Last season Josh was promoted from "garbage man" so to speak. That's according to Josh, to Avery, and according to what my "non-professional athlete" eyes saw in the games.

The point - other than to set the record straight - is that Josh isn't going to some day blow up offensively when they begin to run plays for him. That change has already occurred.

I am on record as noting that I think he still has lots of upside in his game. I truly think he has a great shot at being an All-Star, in fact. (This year.) But for the record, he's already been integrated into being a regular part of the offense. His production is not a victim of being "held back" so to speak. From here, it's more about growth in personal skills.

2. All the blather about how important Josh is, and so on, and who knows what about basketball here and so on, were only subpoints. There was a bigger point being made, that everyone just ignored. But it goes back to the issue underlying this thread.

The point was this: we are being told here that there are massive and complex CBA restrictions that would prevent Josh Howard from getting his money, even if the Mavs want to pay it. Here's the quote:

I believe I understand the CBA well. (Those of you who frequently read my work, I'll let you be the final judge of whether I am ahead of or behind the curve on those issues.) Obviously I recognize there are tax issues at play - as there are in every deal. I also understand contractual issues including bonuses, incentives, and the cap and tax implications.

But I don't see the big intimidating boogeyman that would hold up this deal if the parties could agree on a number.

If the Mavs wanted to sign Josh to an extension right now, I want to hear what are (supposedly) the restrictions that are killing the deal. Because I dont see any issue unless it is tax-related (and of course the issue of being unable to agree on a number). And those tax issues could actually be worsened by waiting a year, if Josh has a better year and merits an even bigger payday as a result.

DL

And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure....
Second, someone that is a "LORD" should recognize and read through posts to see that my statement were about the 2nd half.

Lastly, for those who read your posts as you speak. Their are many more issues in the CBA that you listed. None of the issues have to do with tax issues. Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue. Contract extension issues in the CBA is....The problem is that with the CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer and Howard's thinking on his real value they can't reach an agreement on the numbers. In is in Howard's court. It is in his and the team best interest to wait. The team is more than willing to pay what Howard wants, but they can't tip their hand at the table at this time. If you can get him cheaper right now, they go for it. If not, then get the most value from Howard on this season and pay him later.

mary · 10-10-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure....
Second, someone that is a "LORD" should recognize and read through posts to see that my statement were about the 2nd half.

Um...Lord is his last name?

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Its called "Backtracking 501"

Zing!!!!

It is called backing away once I saw how he took my statement. Once my intentions were taken different than what I meant it to be, I backed off to show I did not mean it in that way. That is a sign of doing whats right in a real man's way. I guess "Mary" would know????? Kinda like only posting replies to everyone like you do. Why dont you share some knowledge here with a post, and I will decide your true value to me as well.

Dont reply to me, just share your thoughts on this Josh contract situation. Better yet add some talk about the true value of Howard and what he brings to the Mavs. I would love to hear your insight on these two issues. Your floor....

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Um...Lord is his last name?

And CreditXpert2003 is a screen name!!!!!!!!!! I guess now you are the enforcer and have to protect him???? Are you the message board pimp who protects his personal property? Clearly my statement was directed to him and not you. Still waiting on your knowledge to the two questions I posed to you....

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

there is NO way that Josh Howard makes the all star team over the people five-o listed

I'll be sure to bump this again during All-Star weekend.

I am on record for saying it. If I am wrong, I am wrong. Thats the whole point on being human. I error and sin. By your statement of "NO" way tells me that you indeed is just a fan of players and not the game. Anybody that knows basketball would not say that Howard in "NO" way will make the All-Star team. But put me down on record for thinking he will make it..I have no problem with that. You are on record as Howard in "NO" way makes it....

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

there is NO way that Josh Howard makes the all star team over the people five-o listed

I'll be sure to bump this again during All-Star weekend.

Put this on record as well..The coaches will vote him in. The fans will vote for the ones forty-one listed.

Underdog · 10-10-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Um...Lord is his last name?

Really??? I guess I should stop worshipping him! (um, just the man, not his work...)

mary · 10-10-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickhead

Dont reply to me, just share your thoughts on this Josh contract situation. Better yet add some talk about the true value of Howard and what he brings to the Mavs. I would love to hear your insight on these two issues. Your floor....

You're suggesting that the restrictions dictate they couldn't find a common ground, but I would like to know what specific restriction you're talking about. Remember, its a rookie contract. And please don't respond by questioning Larry Coon's credibility. You looked silly enough when you attacked David Lord's.

Quote:

The salary in the first year of an extension to a rookie scale contract may be any amount up to the player's maximum. For all other extensions, the salary in the first year of the extension is limited to 110.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. However, it also can't exceed the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent (see question numbers 11 and 12).
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#37

fluid.forty.one · 10-10-2006, 09:04 AM

How does me saying "no" tell you that I'm a fan of the players and not the game? It means I'm not a huge Jho homer, which would make me the complete opposite of what you said.

Tmac will get it because he always does, Melo will get it, Ak, Boozer, Marion, Brand are all waaay better than Josh Howard.

mary · 10-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

And CreditXpert2003 is a screen name!!!!!!!!!! I guess now you are the enforcer and have to protect him???? Are you the message board pimp who protects his personal property? Clearly my statement was directed to him and not you. Still waiting on your knowledge to the two questions I posed to you....

No, I was pointing out the fact that you misinterpreted his screen name.

fluid.forty.one · 10-10-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Put this on record as well..The coaches will vote him in. The fans will vote for the ones forty-one listed.

You're an idiot. Can't wait till All-Star weekend.

Oh and I didn't make that list, five-o did. Congrats.

Flacolaco · 10-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

How does me saying "no" tell you that I'm a fan of the players and not the game? It means I'm not a huge Jho homer, which would make me the complete opposite of what you said.

Tmac will get it because he always does, Melo will get it, Ak, Boozer, Marion, Brand are all waaay better than Josh Howard.

Well put me down "on record" as agreeing with Fluid.

To argue against this would be rather nonsensical. We'd all love to see Josh make the all-star team (unless we dont get him signed before the season starts) but it's just not going to happen at his position behind all these other guys.

fluid.forty.one · 10-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

And CreditXpert2003 is a screen name!!!!!!!!!! I guess now you are the enforcer and have to protect him???? Are you the message board pimp who protects his personal property? Clearly my statement was directed to him and not you. Still waiting on your knowledge to the two questions I posed to you....

You have a great ability to make no sense at all...

mary · 10-10-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Why dont you share some knowledge here with a post, and I will decide your true value to me as well.

Oh well let me help you out on that one. I don't give two shits about my true value with you. You buried yourself a hole, and the spent the entire thread trying to dig out of it. Its been amusing. And now you've gone out of your way to get personal, after preaching to others about the same thing. Way to go.

Underdog · 10-10-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Put this on record as well..The coaches will vote him in. The fans will vote for the ones forty-one listed.

I love Josh Howard & REALLY want him to make the All-Star team, but I don't think he's that calibre yet (if he ever will be)... Even if he doesn't make the squad, I hope he plays well enough to be a serious consideration... Afterall, he still has room for improvement on last season & the ability to get better as a player...

Also, what is this pseudo-pro basketball experience you spoke of earlier? Who did you play for? Could you shed some insight on your experience?

Five-ofan · 10-10-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure....
Second, someone that is a "LORD" should recognize and read through posts to see that my statement were about the 2nd half.

Lastly, for those who read your posts as you speak. Their are many more issues in the CBA that you listed. None of the issues have to do with tax issues. Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue. Contract extension issues in the CBA is....The problem is that with the CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer and Howard's thinking on his real value they can't reach an agreement on the numbers. In is in Howard's court. It is in his and the team best interest to wait. The team is more than willing to pay what Howard wants, but they can't tip their hand at the table at this time. If you can get him cheaper right now, they go for it. If not, then get the most value from Howard on this season and pay him later.

You realize that he is actually a basketball writer and probably the most cba knowledgeable if not just basketball knowledgeable writer in the dallas area right? Keep diggin man, at some point you will dig yourself out of this hole.

Five-ofan · 10-10-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Coaches I think will list him in a position that allows him to make it to the All-Star status. Dirk/Duncan/KG will be listed as PF or Center. No Howard will not make the All-Star team by fan voting, which is about player positions. Howard will make it from the coaches vote. Coaches vote about like a player would vote on another player.

This is where Marion usually slides into All-star status. It is the intangibles a player brings. That is why some of us say "Superstars" cancel each other. You cant stop a "Superstar". You just have to play to not let the "MIP" (My definition) beat you. The Heat did not stop Dirk, they just did not allow him to be "Superman". "Robin" is the one they decided to stop. In that series, it was "Terry". They constantly ran at him for his outside jumper. Terry was stopped, because our real "MIP" (Howard) was not able to play his role because of the injury to his hand. JMVHO...

what the hell are you talking about dude? They ran at terry? Did you even watch the finals? They left Jet wide open all series(as they did Josh). As for positions, for the AS game, by rule they have to take 4 forwards and 2 wildcards so at the absolute most, there could be 6 forwards on the roster. Out of these names, tell me who you think josh is better than/more likely to make the all star team.

Tmac(hes getting voted in so you might as well just live with that)
Dirk
Duncan
Brand
Marion(yes he has intangibles, but he also has ridiculous numbers, theres a reason hes been the best player in fantasy basketball the last 2 years) 20 and 12 isnt just intangibles. If Josh puts up 20 and 12 i will eat my hat.
KG
AK
Melo

I listed 8 so even if they include 2 of those guys as centers, Josh would still have to beat at least one of them as well as beating Odom, Boozer, Artest and others...He might get in if they decided that dallas needs two all stars the way Gino did 2 years ago BUT he wont deserve to be an all star.

DLord · 10-10-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

And this is coming from a person who proclaims to be a "LORD"?????????????? Go figure....
Second, someone that is a "LORD" should recognize and read through posts to see that my statement were about the 2nd half.

Lastly, for those who read your posts as you speak. Their are many more issues in the CBA that you listed. None of the issues have to do with tax issues. Do more research the Mavs last year for tax issues is 2007-2008 year(http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm). Tax is not an issue. Contract extension issues in the CBA is....The problem is that with the CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer and Howard's thinking on his real value they can't reach an agreement on the numbers. In is in Howard's court. It is in his and the team best interest to wait. The team is more than willing to pay what Howard wants, but they can't tip their hand at the table at this time. If you can get him cheaper right now, they go for it. If not, then get the most value from Howard on this season and pay him later.

1. I dont proclaim myself to be a "Lord" and would never do such a thing. I use my name. Many people here know exactly who I am and I just post using my own name when I choose to contribute. I post other places far more frequently.

2. Although you talked about Josh's production falling off in the 2nd half of games (for whatever reason), here is what you said explicitly. You said the Mavs dont run any plays for Josh Howard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

I look for the Mavs to start calling plays for him this season. Howard does not have any plays for him, so his points have to come from transition points. I think you all will see Howard in a new light this season...

There's no attempt to misstate your point. But all I can do is read and comment on what you write.

The fact is that the Mavs already have Josh fully integrated into their offense. But he is never going to be the primary offensive focus when you have players like Dirk and JET on the same team. There will be extended stretches when they don't go to him, to feed the others - and that quite unlikely to change.

As a side point, keep in mind that Josh's rebounding numbers also seemed to fall off in the 2nd half of games last season. That obviously can't be attributed to some sort of second-half failure to run plays for him. Maybe the reason for all of it is something different than mere coaching or team preferences?

3. Of course there are many more issues in the contracts and the CBA than "tax" issues. I focused on tax because I am trying to guess what it is that you are referencing when you give a vague reference to "restrictions" getting in the way of a deal, and there are only a couple of possibilities that I see. Here are your words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

I see the possibility of a tax issue. There is also a negotiation issue - ie, Josh wants more, the Mavs want to pay less. But the latter would NOT be due to a "restriction" - it is due to a difference in an evaluation of "worth" in the marketplace.

You were the one that said earlier "I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now" in the context of restrictions, obstacles, and complications. If you arent talking about tax (and you arent, obviously), then what are these mysterious restrictions that make such a deal any harder to do now than any other negotiation between a player and a club?

You again speak above of "CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer." Really? What are they? I'm always willing to learn, so I'm asking and waiting for specifics in case I have missed something in my years of research on these issues. Enlighten me.

4. As far as researching the Mavs tax situation, since you obviously don't read my work, you don't have a clue how much research I do on the topic. It's far more extensive than any other writer/analyst in this market, I believe. Very detailed. Not bragging, just stating a fact that most here already are well aware of.

So what do I know? I know what their situation is likely to be in the summer of 2008. And I don't expect them to have cap room that summer. In fact, I suspect they will again be close to (or over) tax limits when the 2008 season starts.

I find it ironic that you instruct me to "do more research" on cap issues, and then cite hoopshype as your authority. To use YOUR analogy, when you reference "Hoopshype" it is the equivalent of using "Cap info 101" - and we are talking about 501 issues now. [In fact, Hoopshype doesn't even have all the numbers included.]

There are many more issues at play between now and then that will change that picture completely. Rest assured that tax issues ARE very much a part of the Josh Howard contract issue, as well as every other signing. If you think otherwise, you are way more uninformed about contract issues than you realize. Sorry.

Drbio · 10-10-2006, 09:45 AM

I cannot believe I wasted all this time reading those posts from "dickhead".

I love mary.

Drbio · 10-10-2006, 09:46 AM

DLord pwns......

I think I have a man crush on DL now.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

You're suggesting that the restrictions dictate they couldn't find a common ground, but I would like to know what specific restriction you're talking about. Remember, its a rookie contract. And please don't respond by questioning Larry Coon's credibility. You looked silly enough when you attacked David Lord's.

Correct it is a rookie contract. Look at Larry's website and you will see even there shows areas of restriction. I am not going to hold your hand on it, just read up on it since it is your CBA bible, which it is still not the complete CBA info, and also is not the official rulebook on this situation, because there are still other loopholes in the CBA. Actually you looked silly when you defended LORD. I have noticed alot of double standards going on, which seems more of a cult than a forum. Not once did you and a couple of others correct any other posters during this time frame.

Still no knowledge from you on this issue. Stop riding others, post your own thoughts.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butt Kisser

No, I was pointing out the fact that you misinterpreted his screen name.

Once again you proved my post. Did you point out the fact to him that CreditXpert2003 was my screen name and not a self reference to knowledge? Of course you didn't, you dont ride my coat tail YET

Five-ofan · 10-10-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackass

Once again you proved my post. Did you point out the fact to him that CreditXpert2003 was my screen name and not a self reference to knowledge? Of course you didn't, you dont ride my coat tail YET

Oh wohoo, you are special, you can change the name on the qoute.

Flacolaco · 10-10-2006, 10:43 AM

Why is his box still green?

Five-ofan · 10-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Why is his box still green?

because i cant give him negative rep again yet.

Edit-i do want to know who is giving him rep to keep him green though, he still should already be negative.

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Oh wohoo, you are special, you can change the name on the qoute.

You as well proved my point. Now, when Mary changed my name it was alright, but now that I changed hers you post about it..

creditXpert2003 · 10-10-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

1. I dont proclaim myself to be a "Lord" and would never do such a thing. I use my name. Many people here know exactly who I am and I just post using my own name when I choose to contribute. I post other places far more frequently.

2. Although you talked about Josh's production falling off in the 2nd half of games (for whatever reason), here is what you said explicitly. You said the Mavs dont run any plays for Josh Howard.

There's no attempt to misstate your point. But all I can do is read and comment on what you write.

The fact is that the Mavs already have Josh fully integrated into their offense. But he is never going to be the primary offensive focus when you have players like Dirk and JET on the same team. There will be extended stretches when they don't go to him, to feed the others - and that quite unlikely to change.

As a side point, keep in mind that Josh's rebounding numbers also seemed to fall off in the 2nd half of games last season. That obviously can't be attributed to some sort of second-half failure to run plays for him. Maybe the reason for all of it is something different than mere coaching or team preferences?

3. Of course there are many more issues in the contracts and the CBA than "tax" issues. I focused on tax because I am trying to guess what it is that you are referencing when you give a vague reference to "restrictions" getting in the way of a deal, and there are only a couple of possibilities that I see. Here are your words:

I see the possibility of a tax issue. There is also a negotiation issue - ie, Josh wants more, the Mavs want to pay less. But the latter would NOT be due to a "restriction" - it is due to a difference in an evaluation of "worth" in the marketplace.

You were the one that said earlier "I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now" in the context of restrictions, obstacles, and complications. If you arent talking about tax (and you arent, obviously), then what are these mysterious restrictions that make such a deal any harder to do now than any other negotiation between a player and a club?

You again speak above of "CBA extension restrictions on what the team can offer." Really? What are they? I'm always willing to learn, so I'm asking and waiting for specifics in case I have missed something in my years of research on these issues. Enlighten me.

4. As far as researching the Mavs tax situation, since you obviously don't read my work, you don't have a clue how much research I do on the topic. It's far more extensive than any other writer/analyst in this market, I believe. Very detailed. Not bragging, just stating a fact that most here already are well aware of.

So what do I know? I know what their situation is likely to be in the summer of 2008. And I don't expect them to have cap room that summer. In fact, I suspect they will again be close to (or over) tax limits when the 2008 season starts.

I find it ironic that you instruct me to "do more research" on cap issues, and then cite hoopshype as your authority. To use YOUR analogy, when you reference "Hoopshype" it is the equivalent of using "Cap info 101" - and we are talking about 501 issues now. [In fact, Hoopshype doesn't even have all the numbers included.]

There are many more issues at play between now and then that will change that picture completely. Rest assured that tax issues ARE very much a part of the Josh Howard contract issue, as well as every other signing. If you think otherwise, you are way more uninformed about contract issues than you realize. Sorry.

Is this not a statement you made here recently:

"I'm almost 6-3. I've talked to most of these guys numerous times where we are standing next to each other face to face. I've been around athletes who are tall for much of my life, have played with and against them, and know how tall they have been measured at and what that height looks like.

Without a tape measure, the guess that puts Stack at 6-4 1/2 pretty well matches my guess. Maybe 6-5 tops.

I dont know what their "listed heights" would say (it seems to vary depending on who you ask), but Terry and Harris are about identical and both are right at 6-3, probably no less than 6-2 1/2 - I made a point to try to figure it out the day they all were in their first Media Day and asked them to stand next to me and each other and compare.

I'd put Josh Howard at 6-7, and I'm certain he must be over 6-6 .

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This tells me that you are indeed a journalist. Your credibility is now shot with me. All you do is research what you find on the internet. Your statements above shows me that you indeed think you are "LORD" here on basketball. Just re-read your own posts. You feel you are better equipped than all others. Just read your #4....Now, I know for a fact who is the self-proclaimed "Top Cheese" here, but I guess "LORD" said others would agree, then I disgress.

Five-ofan · 10-10-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Is this not a statement you made here recently:

"I'm almost 6-3. I've talked to most of these guys numerous times where we are standing next to each other face to face. I've been around athletes who are tall for much of my life, have played with and against them, and know how tall they have been measured at and what that height looks like.

Without a tape measure, the guess that puts Stack at 6-4 1/2 pretty well matches my guess. Maybe 6-5 tops.

I dont know what their "listed heights" would say (it seems to vary depending on who you ask), but Terry and Harris are about identical and both are right at 6-3, probably no less than 6-2 1/2 - I made a point to try to figure it out the day they all were in their first Media Day and asked them to stand next to me and each other and compare.

I'd put Josh Howard at 6-7, and I'm certain he must be over 6-6 .

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This tells me that you are indeed a journalist. Your credibility is now shot with me. All you do is research what you find on the internet. Your statements above shows me that you indeed think you are "LORD" here on basketball. Just re-read your own posts. You feel you are better equipped than all others. Just read your #4....Now, I know for a fact who is the self-proclaimed "Top Cheese" here, but I guess "LORD" said others would agree, then I disgress.

you are such a moron man, go to dallasbasketball.com and read most of the work on the homepage. Its some of the most insightful Mavs writing you will find(well except for the parts fish writes) and its by Mr. Lord. Until then could you try to make even a little bit of sense?