07-25-2010, 09:41 AM
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#201
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
I don't think it matters. The bottom line is it's up to them to read the market correctly. It may not be completely fair, but if you fold your hand with Damp and then a weak later Paul is traded for cap relief, you deserve to be questioned and criticized.
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I have to agree with you that it is not being fair. It's impossible to be a mind reader. Just like the Orlando deal last year, stuff happens and you are sitting there with damp all over your face. Should they have known Gortat would be matched???
In the same breath should they know that NO is going to do this? If it's better for NO's to wait a year then they wait a year. It's completely their call and arbitrary, I don't see much market read at all for this. The mavs obviously had some inkling that this might happen as they tried the kitchen sink approach earlier but NO's were not buying. Who would know CP3 more than they do and yet they didn't see this coming.
Knowing the market doesn't mean every stock pick is correct.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 09:49 AM
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#202
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
After giving up all that talent for Paul (Butler, Roddy, picks, etc), I'm still not sure if the team as enough offensive punch to battle with the big boys of the league. Other than Paul and Dirk, who can score?
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The closing offense for the last decade has been the dirk/jet pnr. Throw in some josh howard sometimes. Now think of the dirk/paul pnr..where paul is a infinitely better distributor/scorer and driver than jet is. It's so not close that it's scary.
Jkiddo wasn't going to do anything but spot up 3 anyway. Get the center moving and the 3 moving and you've got something going on. They don't have to be isolation scorers with paul running it.
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"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
Last edited by dude1394; 07-25-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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07-25-2010, 09:59 AM
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#203
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I wouldn't just say it's not completely fair, I'd say it's completely unfair to expect them to do anything more than make repeated efforts to offer everything we have except the one guy who we're keeping.
There's reading the market, and then there's reading minds. When the Hornets tell you "no" over and over and over and you've offered everything you've got, it'd be unreasonable to sit around and insist to yourself that they still might change their mind anytime soon. It's especially unreasonable when you have an asset whose trade value only lasts for so much longer.
You hope (maybe even expect) they change their mind awhile down the road, but it'd be unreasonable under these circumstances to prepare for the contingency that a week or two later they do a complete 180.
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What is even more unfair is that even in trading the dampier chip for chandler instead of AlJefferson (who I still like better than chandler) they kept their powder dry on being able to do the deal. I find this criticism unwarranted.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 10:18 AM
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#204
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsX
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Good stuff and I agree completely. The lack of parity is really going to damage the NBA in the future I expect. Why in the world would anyone pay 250+ per ticket to watch a team make the playoffs with no chance at winning it. It's insane...
It appears that the league with the fewest amount of players is the league with the least amount of parity. The only corresponding scenario is baseball where you can field the best pitching staff and probably get it done. But even then you have to have hitters and fielders.
It's why there is no comparison imo between basketball and football as to which I will be more long-term invested in. I had checked out in the Michael Jordan era, I expect I'll check out in o' about 4 years.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 10:23 AM
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#205
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
I agree with this...I just wonder if Paul were here would that resurrect JET to his deadly sniper status of a couples season's ago or would it sound the death knell for his time in big D. I totally agree that "The Good JT" is a viable 3rd scoring option...but how often to we get "The Good JT"? 45% of the time? (A fair question to counter my own is how often does the 3rd option have to be at his best?)
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Jet would probably look a lot like Ray Allen. Really good then not so good. 3pt shooters just really cannot be consistently relied upon. You need 'em and if he's wide open he should hit them...but it's a tough way to make a living.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 10:32 AM
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#206
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
Why wouldn't Paul want to play with big, dunking machine, Dwight Howard...of course that makes more sense than coming to Dallas. Moves Paul to the East (and out of division) which makes sense for the Hornets...
*sigh*
Sometimes I hate being a Mavs fan.
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Paul WANTS to play for the NYKnicks and join up with amare/carmelo in two years. That's what he wants.
Secondly he would want to play for the Magic...UNTIL his contract is up and he plays for the knicks with carmelo/amare. Unless he wins a championship or thinks he will there by himself.
It's not where he wants to go, it's where NO want him to go. Since they are losing him they have no interest in sending him where he wants to go...only the receiving team has to worry about that. I'm sure cubes thinks once he's here, he can keep him here. I'm not so sure, but that's got to be his thinking or he doesn't do it.
PS. Maybe he actually does do it to get 2 years of chances before the dirkster is done...I'd probably do it as well.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 11:08 AM
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#207
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,048
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If Paul doesn't get traded to Dallas I'd almost welcome him being traded to Orlando. It would be so great to see Orlando steal some of the Heat's thunder and emerge as the better Florida team.
__________________
''Nowitzki'' is a German word that, translated, means, ''Good Lord, doesn't this guy ever miss?''
-Miami paper on Dirk Nowitzki
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07-25-2010, 01:31 PM
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#208
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Paul WANTS to play for the NYKnicks and join up with amare/carmelo in two years. That's what he wants.
Secondly he would want to play for the Magic...UNTIL his contract is up and he plays for the knicks with carmelo/amare. Unless he wins a championship or thinks he will there by himself. [...] PS. Maybe he actually does do it to get 2 years of chances before the dirkster is done...I'd probably do it as well.
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What Chris Paul wants and what is likely to happen are two different things. First of all, Carmelo would have to decline a 3-year, $65 million extension offer from the Nuggets. Would he do that and sign a contract with the Knicks under the new CBA for (considerably) less money? I'm really not sure. Another question, which can hardly be answered at the moment due to the new CBA, is whether the Knicks would even have the cap space to sign Carmelo and CP3 to maximum contracts. Bringing together Wade, Bosh and Lebron in Miami was probably easier than doing the same thing with Stoudemire, Carmelo and Paul in New York until 2012. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are certain barriers they'd have to overcome.
Even if Paul was determined to head to New York, I wouldn't be shocked if he thought that Dallas was the better place to try and win a championship until then. And we don't have much of a chance with our current roster beyond 2012 anyway. Dirk, Marion, Jet, Haywood would all be in their mid-30s in 2013 and Kidd not even here anymore.
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07-25-2010, 02:01 PM
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#209
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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the only part of cp3 to the mavs that is far fetched is that were same division rivals...which is bad news.
even without the dust chip, we can offer one of the best packages for cp3.
id prefer not to include butler, but we may have to. it will take at least 2 1st rounders, roddy, several expirings..probably including butler.
every team in the league is gonna offer a solid package for the best point gaurd in the game...i think ours stacks up pretty well...
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07-25-2010, 02:01 PM
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#210
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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it doesnt help that our big trade chip in roddy..is a combo gaurd..
and NO's best players are at the PG and SG...
can only be hopeful about this trade idea, the fact that were in the same division really sucks.
Last edited by mavsfan4lyfe201; 07-25-2010 at 02:02 PM.
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07-25-2010, 02:26 PM
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#211
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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Could Chandler, Butler, Stevenson, Beaubois and Barea plus 2011 and 2013 first round draft choices for Paul, Okafor & Posey get this done?
It needs to be grouped as three deals, Chandler-Paul, Butler-Okafor, & Stevenson, Beaubois, Barea-Posey.
You can throw in $3 million or $9 million if the league lets you and Cuban is willing.
Mavericks:
Haywood/Okafor/Mahinni/Ajinca
Dirk/Thomas
Marion/Posey
Kidd/Jones
Paul/Terry
Although you probably always play one of Paul or Kidd at the point. You also probably try to trade Mahinni or Ajinca for a two/three, or sign somebody, to balance the roster.
New Orleans
Chandler/Grey
West/Songalia/Brackins
Butler/Stojakovic/Wright
Thornton/Beaubois/Poindexter/Stevenson
Collison/Barea
Next year, the only player New Orleans has left on a significan contract is West--who's probably worth the money.
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07-25-2010, 02:31 PM
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#212
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalger
What Chris Paul wants and what is likely to happen are two different things. First of all, Carmelo would have to decline a 3-year, $65 million extension offer from the Nuggets. Would he do that and sign a contract with the Knicks under the new CBA for (considerably) less money? I'm really not sure. Another question, which can hardly be answered at the moment due to the new CBA, is whether the Knicks would even have the cap space to sign Carmelo and CP3 to maximum contracts. Bringing together Wade, Bosh and Lebron in Miami was probably easier than doing the same thing with Stoudemire, Carmelo and Paul in New York until 2012. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are certain barriers they'd have to overcome.
Even if Paul was determined to head to New York, I wouldn't be shocked if he thought that Dallas was the better place to try and win a championship until then. And we don't have much of a chance with our current roster beyond 2012 anyway. Dirk, Marion, Jet, Haywood would all be in their mid-30s in 2013 and Kidd not even here anymore.
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If I'm the knicks I do exactly what Riley did. Begin negotiating with paul/camelo through stoudemire. Carmelo would have to sign an agreement that frees him in two years. Between now and then NY begins to cut salary and free up cap room.
The new collective barganing agreement is an unknown. As is a risk by carmelo/paul of career-ending injury but that's what it takes to become a free-agent.
Does anyone know if Amare signed a cap-friendly agreement (like the ones in miami) that allows the two other guys to sign?
With respect to the mavs, I roll the dice, there are only so many more cards(i.e. years) left in the deck.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-25-2010, 04:49 PM
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#213
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
If I'm the knicks I do exactly what Riley did. Begin negotiating with paul/camelo through stoudemire. Carmelo would have to sign an agreement that frees him in two years. Between now and then NY begins to cut salary and free up cap room.
The new collective barganing agreement is an unknown. As is a risk by carmelo/paul of career-ending injury but that's what it takes to become a free-agent.
Does anyone know if Amare signed a cap-friendly agreement (like the ones in miami) that allows the two other guys to sign?
With respect to the mavs, I roll the dice, there are only so many more cards(i.e. years) left in the deck.
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If both Paul and Carmelo were willing to leave a lot of money on the table, then New York would probably be in a position to sign both of them as free agents in 2012. That said, contrary to the situation in Miami where Bosh, Wade and Lebron signed similar deals starting in the $15 million range, Stoudemire would most likely have a much higher annual salary than Carmelo and CP3 because of the new CBA.
As far as our ambitions in regards to Paul are concerned, I don't think we should let it affect our immediate plans. We would at least have two seasons with him to try and win a championship, and I don't believe that any plans for 2012 are already set in stone.
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07-25-2010, 10:22 PM
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#214
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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apparently lebron has advised paul to request the trade..
he also wants paul to request a trade to a team in the west to keep the 'rivalry' going...not sure where hes going with that..
but that could be solid news. im hopeful on this..
but think about it, does NO wanna play paul 4 times a year? (if traded to us) i wouldnt...
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07-25-2010, 10:48 PM
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#215
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,526
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The biggest thing we don't have going for us is that we're not in the East. I think that prevents NO from trading cp3 to us.
I always think back to Toronto trading Vince Carter to New Jersey though..
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07-26-2010, 12:48 PM
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#216
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where Deustchland Happens
Posts: 878
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Quote:
On Monday 26th July 2010, @Oneandonlycp3 said:
reply
“The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with Coach Williams, President Weber and our new General Manager Dell Demps. I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come.”
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He's not going anywhere folks. Good for him. When it came down to it all CP3 wanted was attention
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The good Ol days : Click
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07-26-2010, 01:17 PM
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#217
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
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So now NO tanks the next 2 seasons to try and win the lottery and pic up a superstar? Other than that i don't see them as much more then a low tier playoff team.
But im actually kind of glad he is staying cause im sure if we did trade for him we might have gotten rolled for most of our assets. And of course no telling if you give up Roddy and he comes back to haunt you for the next 10 years.
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07-26-2010, 02:47 PM
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#218
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: POLAND
Posts: 1,551
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__________________
No one loves Dirk any more than I do
MY HEART-WHERE DIRK NOWITZKI IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE AN ALL-STAR
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07-26-2010, 03:19 PM
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#219
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41mvp
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Mass suicide I guess...
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-26-2010, 03:40 PM
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#220
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Mark that down under, who gives a s!
..and i told ya so
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
Last edited by sike; 07-26-2010 at 03:59 PM.
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07-26-2010, 06:05 PM
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#221
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,526
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Yea... that means absolutely nothing. They're just trying to be politically correct.
Remember this gem from LeBron? “I got a goal, and it’s a huge goal, and that’s to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland. And I won’t stop until I get it.”- LeBron James; starting forward for the Miami Heat.
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Last edited by Windmill360; 07-26-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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07-26-2010, 06:59 PM
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#222
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,456
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Things could change as soon as February. If we were among the three best teams in the conference and New Orleans only good enough for something like 8th place, Paul would most likely think about trying his luck somewhere else again, e.g. in Dallas. Our expiring contracts are more valuable at that point anyway. That said, New Orleans could certainly try and package Peja/Collison, who are perhaps just as valuable as Butler/Roddy, to bring in an impact player like Iggy to appease CP3. Okafor/West/Iggy/Thornton/CP3 isn't bad at all and maybe even better than the team that beat us two years ago in the playoffs.
Last edited by dalger; 07-26-2010 at 07:03 PM.
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07-26-2010, 07:36 PM
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#223
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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I actually liked Fish's last line of the matter....… "but remain in the dark as to where it leads."
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-26-2010, 10:43 PM
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#224
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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honestly im not gonna lose sleep if we dont get cp3...
we got a good shot to land D Will in a few years when hes a FA..
but cp3 wanting to stay and all this positive crap is a smokescreen to me..this was just to let the rumors die down.
i think he wants out still, and management will try to trade him.
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07-27-2010, 03:25 AM
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#225
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: POLAND
Posts: 1,551
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This is end topic about CP3
__________________
No one loves Dirk any more than I do
MY HEART-WHERE DIRK NOWITZKI IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE AN ALL-STAR
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07-27-2010, 03:37 AM
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#226
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41mvp
This is end topic about CP3
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No is for not am CP3 !!!
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-27-2010, 08:08 AM
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#227
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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FWIW, here's a couple DLord tweets:
Quote:
reports say CP3 and NO are playing PR game while quietly looking for the best deal...a deal now can't include an extension yet for CP3-
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Quote:
- which gives CP3 some leverage - team getting him has guar of only 1 yr before free agency if 11-12 season lost to strife over new CBA
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The possible lockout next season is an interesting wrinkle. Teams probably won't be willing to unload a boat load of young talent if they can't get an extension from Paul first. Makes his wish list more relevant, I think.
Also makes it more possible that NO has to focus on a salary dump, which gives us something of a chance.
Last edited by jthig32; 07-27-2010 at 08:10 AM.
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07-27-2010, 09:16 AM
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#228
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41mvp
This is end topic about CP3
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+ rep
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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07-27-2010, 09:43 AM
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#229
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Can Paul and Collison play together? That is why I'd consider trading him if I was NO....not because he demanded it. They're both barely 6 feet. Can't see NO surviving with that at the one, two spots.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-27-2010, 10:12 AM
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#230
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,031
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the knicks were never in the C3P0 race in the first place.
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08-19-2010, 03:19 PM
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#231
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 648
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Collison's Gone, Now NO needs Beaubois a little more! They don't have a good point after they trade Paul. And they may have to trade him this year, because if there's a lockout and not 2011 season, Paul will be a free agent after this one!!!!!
I think there's a good chance we see some BIGGGGGG trades around the deadline!
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