2014 Offseason Thread

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

2. I think its unrealistic to say that Pau and Dirk will only be in the game together for 12 minutes a game.. maybe I am wrong? That seems abit low. I would say Pau would be seeing closer to a 50/50 split at the 4/5. Again playoff teams we stand very little chance of stopping anyone with Dirk and Gasol defending the paint.

Actually, you missed his 18 mpg at the PF spot for Gasol which would bring his minutes up to 30. However, I really hope that Wright doesn't play that 18 mpg unless it is all against crappy east teams. This is my mpg idea:

PF - Dirk 32 mpg / Pau 12 mpg / Wright or Blair 4 mpg
C - Sam 24 mpg / Pau 20 mpg / Wright or Blair 4 mpg

Points:
- Pau is first off bench as PF backup, then slides over to C backup
- Sam should be able to log a solid 24 mpg in his seconds year with the team
- 44 mpg at PF and C position with our starters
- 4 mpg for backups
- this is against good teams (western conf)
- for east teams, reduce mpg appropriately and let Wright/Blair do their thing

Edit: My bad. You said 12 mpg of Dirk+Pau together. Yes, I view about 20 mpg together.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Actually, you missed his 18 mpg at the PF spot for Gasol which would bring his minutes up to 30. However, I really hope that Wright doesn't play that 18 mpg unless it is all against crappy east teams. This is my mpg idea:

PF - Dirk 32 mpg / Pau 12 mpg / Wright or Blair 4 mpg
C - Sam 24 mpg / Pau 20 mpg / Wright or Blair 4 mpg

Points:
- Pau is first off bench as PF backup, then slides over to C backup
- Sam should be able to log a solid 24 mpg in his seconds year with the team
- 44 mpg at PF and C position with our starters
- 4 mpg for backups
- this is against good teams (western conf)
- for east teams, reduce mpg appropriately and let Wright/Blair do their thing

Edit: My bad. You said 12 mpg of Dirk+Pau together. Yes, I view about 20 mpg together.

First of all, Wright and/or Blair aren't seeing ANY minutes at the 4 with Dirk and Pau on the roster... And it might be a bit of a stretch to assume Dalembert will average 24 MPG considering he hasn't played that much since 10-11 and he's another year older... Also, I don't know how much I want to see Dirk and Pau on the floor together defensively (or Wright/Blair and Pau), but obviously Pau can't play the 4 & 5 at the same time...

Looking at those rotations, I think adding Pau to the roster as currently constructed is just going to make a mess of things. Seems like we need to replace Dalembert with someone who can play heavier minutes to make it work.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I mean, I'd rather have Pau than not have Pau if it means having the same center rotation as last season.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mean, I'd rather have Pau than not have Pau if it means having the same center rotation as last season.

Sure, but Pau Gasol at center still isn't getting us past the Spurs... I'd rather see if Okafor is healthy and roll with him and Dalembert - at least they're both defensive-minded centers.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sure, but Pau Gasol at center still isn't getting us past the Spurs... I'd rather see if Okafor is healthy and roll with him and Dalembert - at least they're both defensive-minded centers.

I have to agree. Monta + Calderon is top 5 worst back court defense in nba. Whatever minutes Dirk + Gasol play together is the top 3 worst front court defenses in the nba. We don't need 18+ ppg from our center next year. We need someone who can be a team leader/chemistry guy + defensive anchor. Gasol is only 1/2 of that need. Scoring is not an issue from the position. We will get plenty of scoring from Ellis, Dirk, our 3 spot, Harris and Calderon, and Carter off the bench.


If we sign Gasol to anything less than 8 million per with an understanding that he will see minutes as our 6th man.. then sure let's go for it. I just don't think the likelihood of that happening is high. That said.. my gut tells me Mav's are under rating my expert opinion

[Vinsanity]

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of signing Gasol. Him and Dirk would be a dominate offensive front court. With Dalembert coming off the bench to bring some sort of a defensive presence at the center position, I think we'll be fine. I would just make sure for every minute Dirk is resting, have Pau in at PF so there's not much of a dropoff on offense. And just avoid playing Dirk/Pau together as much as possible because of the defensive liabilities they both have. I'd have them play together for only about 12-15 minutes of the game and like I said, make sure Pau is in the entire time Dirk is resting... which would have them both playing at about 30-32mpg. With that formula we'd have a good combonation of offense and defense on the floor most of the time. And if we also end up getting a guy like Deng (or Ariza), it'll help Dirk/Pau down low because guys won't be blowing by them and getting into the lane as often.

If our lineup looks like this next season I'd be very happy...

PG - Calderon / Harris / Larkin
SG - Ellis / Carter / Ellington
SF - Deng / Marion / Crowder
PF - Nowitzki / Wright / Blair
C - Gasol / Dalembert

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of signing Gasol. Him and Dirk would be a dominate offensive front court. With Dalembert coming off the bench to bring some sort of a defensive presence at the center position, I think we'll be fine. I would just make sure for every minute Dirk is resting, have Pau in at PF so there's not much of a dropoff on offense. And just avoid playing Dirk/Pau together as much as possible because of the defensive liabilities they both have. I'd have them play together for only about 12-15 minutes of the game and like I said, make sure Pau is in the entire time Dirk is resting... which would have them both playing at about 30-32mpg. With that formula we'd have a good combonation of offense and defense on the floor most of the time. And if we also end up getting a guy like Deng (or Ariza), it'll help Dirk/Pau down low because guys won't be blowing by them and getting into the lane as often.

If our lineup looks like this next season I'd be very happy...

PG - Calderon / Harris / Larkin
SG - Ellis / Carter / Ellington
SF - Deng / Marion / Crowder
PF - Nowitzki / Wright / Blair
C - Gasol / Dalembert

Please explain this to me because this is the second post today that I have seen this and I just don't understand it.

We can agree that offense was not an issue last year correct? At the very least we can agree that by upgrading Marion's spot at the 3, we will fix whatever offensive woes we had while still maintaining his defensive presence (deng/ariza/Parsons/stephenson) right? So how does it help us to gain Gasol in the low post? I just don't get it. He is an average to sub average defender with zero athleticism........how does this help compensate for Dirk's already very poor athleticism and sub average defense in the post? Dalembert played last year...and our defense sucked with just him in there. How is this fixing our primary issue of LACK OF DEFENSE?

People need to understand we can not expect to win a championship with 4 sub average defenders as apart of our main rotation. It makes zero sense.. no matter how much offense you claim they put up. Dirk NEEDS defense next to him in the paint.. ALL THE TIME! Between Ellis, Dirk, X (Deng, Ariza, Parsons, Tucker, your pick), Harris, Calderon, and Carter.. we have PLENTY of offense. Honestly we literally do NOT need Gasols offense at any point that Dirk is on the court.

Do we really expect to contend next year without actually upgrading our defense?

If we somehow got Deng, Gasol, and Chandler with Gasol coming off the bench to get his 25 mpg... But I think right now that has to be a long shot.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Please explain this to me because this is the second post today that I have seen this and I just don't understand it.

We can agree that offense was not an issue last year correct? At the very least we can agree that by upgrading Marion's spot at the 3, we will fix whatever offensive woes we had while still maintaining his defensive presence (deng/ariza/Parsons/stephenson) right? So how does it help us to gain Gasol in the low post? I just don't get it. He is an average to sub average defender with zero athleticism........how does this help compensate for Dirk's already very poor athleticism and sub average defense in the post? Dalembert played last year...and our defense sucked with just him in there. How is this fixing our primary issue of LACK OF DEFENSE?

People need to understand we can not expect to win a championship with 4 sub average defenders as apart of our main rotation. It makes zero sense.. no matter how much offense you claim they put up. Dirk NEEDS defense next to him in the paint.. ALL THE TIME! Between Ellis, Dirk, X (Deng, Ariza, Parsons, Tucker, your pick), Harris, Calderon, and Carter.. we have PLENTY of offense. Honestly we literally do NOT need Gasols offense at any point that Dirk is on the court.

Do we really expect to contend next year without actually upgrading our defense?

If we somehow got Deng, Gasol, and Chandler with Gasol coming off the bench to get his 25 mpg... But I think right now that has to be a long shot.

I think the problem was also offense not just defense . Sure we had a good offense but we still went through periods where we couldn't score ...

Playoffs 4 losses 93 PPG by the Mavs
Playoffs 3 Wins 111 PPG by the Mavs


Go back and look at all the blown leads it was just as much about the offense as defense . Sure we couldn't stop teams but we would have won most if not all of those blown leads or close games if we didn't go though 5-6 minute stretches to close the game not able to score . Or like when Dirk is sitting not being able to score ...


I also think

Ariza / Crowder
Dirk / Pau
Pau / Dalembert


is a lot better defensively than

Marion / Carter / Crowder
Dirk / Marion
Dalembert / Wright / Blair


And is a lot better than people give credit .

[spreedom]

Unless it's a can't-miss type of price, I'm a lot more interested in defense-first players than I am guys whose primary skill is scoring.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Floppy

I think the problem was also offense not just defense . Sure we had a good offense but we still went through periods where we couldn't score ...

Playoffs 4 losses 93 PPG by the Mavs
Playoffs 3 Wins 111 PPG by the Mavs


Go back and look at all the blown leads it was just as much about the offense as defense . Sure we couldn't stop teams but we would have won most if not all of those blown leads or close games if we didn't go though 5-6 minute stretches to close the game not able to score . Or like when Dirk is sitting not being able to score ...


I also think

Ariza / Crowder
Dirk / Pau
Pau / Dalembert


is a lot better defensively than

Marion / Carter / Crowder
Dirk / Marion
Dalembert / Wright / Blair


And is a lot better than people give credit .

I appreciate your input, and to your point I can understand where your coming from. That said... I just think it's wrong. We were a top 10 scoring offense with the worst defense of any of the 16 playoff teams. Sure we had momentum swings like any team... But my contention is the reason we saw more momentum swings/thrown games than most good teams is because we had zero defense when good teams buckle down. Defensive stops create momentum and offense. This is the same problem pretty much any high flying offense of the last 15 years has faced.

Also I don't agree that we would be getting much better defensively. Maybe somewhat with Ariza (doubtful he's our target), but not championship better. Gasol makes zero sense on the floor, but even more so if we are not going to add a defensive center to our starting 5.


I mean seriously how do people think we can win with Calderon, Ellis, deng/Ariza, Dirk, Gasol and just hoping to avoid putting Dirk and Gasol on the court at the same time as much as possible. We need DEFENSE!!! We are already upgrading our offense with Ariza or Deng.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Unless it's a can't-miss type of price, I'm a lot more interested in defense-first players than I am guys whose primary skill is scoring.

THIS!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Floppy

I think the problem was also offense not just defense . Sure we had a good offense but we still went through periods where we couldn't score ...

Playoffs 4 losses 93 PPG by the Mavs
Playoffs 3 Wins 111 PPG by the Mavs


Go back and look at all the blown leads it was just as much about the offense as defense . Sure we couldn't stop teams but we would have won most if not all of those blown leads or close games if we didn't go though 5-6 minute stretches to close the game not able to score . Or like when Dirk is sitting not being able to score ...

Our defense was clearly one of the worst in the league last season while our offense was one of the best. Identifying the problem with this team isn't exactly rocket surgery.

All teams go through scoring slumps, but a solid defense will keep your opponent from taking advantage them... See the 2011 Mavs for details.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I appreciate your input, and to your point I can understand where your coming from. That said... I just think it's wrong. We were a top 10 scoring offense with the worst defense of any of the 16 playoff teams. Sure we had momentum swings like any team... But my contention is the reason we saw more momentum swings/thrown games than most good teams is because we had zero defense when good teams buckle down. Defensive stops create momentum and offense. This is the same problem pretty much any high flying offense of the last 15 years has faced.

Also I don't agree that we would be getting much better defensively. Maybe somewhat with Ariza (doubtful he's our target), but not championship better. Gasol makes zero sense on the floor, but even more so if we are not going to add a defensive center to our starting 5.


I mean seriously how do people think we can win with Calderon, Ellis, deng/Ariza, Dirk, Gasol and just hoping to avoid putting Dirk and Gasol on the court at the same time as much as possible. We need DEFENSE!!! We are already upgrading our offense with Ariza or Deng.

In no way shape or form does deng upgrade this offense

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

In no way shape or form does deng upgrade this offense

Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.

No but the fact that it's true is why I keep saying it. I still don't get how the guys who think he improves the offense, think he does that. What do you think he will do that will make the offense better? I legitimately ask this question because Iv asked it several times from good posters(including yourself) and the only answer Iv gotten is that he avged 16 ppg so it must be true.

[dirt_dobber]

My Mavs wish list for this off-season.
SF - Luol
C- Pau
PG - Isaiah Thomas

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

No but the fact that it's true is why I keep saying it. I still don't get how the guys who think he improves the offense, think he does that. What do you think he will do that will make the offense better? I legitimately ask this question because Iv asked it several times from good posters(including yourself) and the only answer Iv gotten is that he avged 16 ppg so it must be true.

Makes good cuts off the ball, sets solid screens, decent shooter, high BBIQ. Overall a good "glue guy". I think he improves this team if he decides to sign here.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Makes good cuts off the ball, sets solid screens, decent shooter, high BBIQ. Overall a good "glue guy". I think he improves this team if he decides to sign here.

Good answer. Plus he plays Marion's position, so it's not like he'd be providing what you said instead of a superior offensive player/

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Our defense was clearly one of the worst in the league last season while our offense was one of the best. Identifying the problem with this team isn't exactly rocket surgery.

All teams go through scoring slumps, but a solid defense will keep your opponent from taking advantage them... See the 2011 Mavs for details.

Offense was definitely a strength relative to defense, but Dallas wasn't so good on the offensive end that I'd believe they couldn't improve by adding the right (kind of) player, or that they couldn't hurt themselves overall by putting too high a priority on getting a defensive specialist. Just give me a good player, with a motor that'll keep him out of Rick's doghouse, and enough intelligence and skill to function effectively in the offensive and defensive systems the Mavs run, and I'll be happy.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

In no way shape or form does deng upgrade this offense

Didnt know 35y old Marion has better offense than Deng...

okay.jpg

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Offense was definitely a strength relative to defense, but Dallas wasn't so good on the offensive end that I'd believe they couldn't improve by adding the right (kind of) player, or that they couldn't hurt themselves overall by putting too high a priority on getting a defensive specialist. Just give me a good player, with a motor that'll keep him out of Rick's doghouse, and enough intelligence and skill to function effectively in the offensive and defensive systems the Mavs run, and I'll be happy.

If I'm a betting man, I'm betting that happens. It just may be underwhelming to some.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Makes good cuts off the ball, sets solid screens, decent shooter, high BBIQ. Overall a good "glue guy". I think he improves this team if he decides to sign here.

Not as good of a cutter as marion(who is one of the best cutters ever) and he's a terrible shooter. Does have a good bball iq but that doesn't really help a whole lot.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

No but the fact that it's true is why I keep saying it. I still don't get how the guys who think he improves the offense, think he does that. What do you think he will do that will make the offense better? I legitimately ask this question because Iv asked it several times from good posters(including yourself) and the only answer Iv gotten is that he avged 16 ppg so it must be true.

Originally Posted by BPo001

Makes good cuts off the ball, sets solid screens, decent shooter, high BBIQ. Overall a good "glue guy". I think he improves this team if he decides to sign here.

Not to mention he's capable of more assists and has much better handles than Shawn "wet noodle finger" Marion... Plus, his game isn't going to drop off as much at 30 as Marion's will at 36 (which started falling like a stone last season). Oh, and Carlisle is a more creative offensive coach than Thibedeau and should be able to better utilize Deng here in Dallas with Dirk/Ellis/Calderon than he ever was in Chicago.

I don't expect the guy to set the world on fire, but I do expect him to be our third-best scorer and best defender (barring a stud defensive center) if we land him.

So, 5-0, why do you think Deng is overrated on offense (other than just because you keep saying so)?

[Five-ofan]

I've said that in another post but I'll say it again, the only way he can score even remotely efficiently is 18 foot isos. If we are running 18 foot isos, they won't be for him. http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/pl...-REG?ui=zone14

That is his last full regular season with one team and the last time he didn't get to just run 18 ft ISO after 18 ft iso on a team with no nba offensive talent.

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/pl.../2013-2014-REG

That is last year and it's artificially bouyed by him getting to do his 18 ft ISP thing at the beginning of the year but still he's a dead weight on offense and you lose the offensive boards Marion provided. Marion's offense cratered this year and deng is STILL a downgrade. Plus he's the wrong kind of defender. I have 0 interest.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Not as good of a cutter as marion(who is one of the best cutters ever) and he's a terrible shooter. Does have a good bball iq but that doesn't really help a whole lot.

Marion's not near as much of a weapon as a cutter as he used to be.

I'm not one who's going to try to argue that your concerns about Deng are without merit. But sometimes I feel like you're stuck comparing him to Shawn Marion circa 2010, and I just don't think that's particular meaningful in the summer of 2014.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Marion's not near as much of a weapon as a cutter as he used to be.

I'm not one who's going to try to argue that your concerns about Deng are without merit. But sometimes I feel like you're stuck comparing him to Shawn Marion circa 2010, and I just don't think that's particular meaningful in the summer of 2014.

I don't want Shawn back either, but Shawn was still a nearly 54% ts player last year and deng has only done that twice in his career. Further while I truly believe in dirk and carlisles abilities to get the best out of someone, basketball isn't an individual sport. The pieces have to fit. Monta made sense as a fit because him running the pick and roll with dirk was always going to be devastating. Deng has no such obvious fit. At some point I understand that you have to take a shot because you can find flaws with almost anyone and the odds of ever signing a Lebron or durant are so minuscule they don't even merit the effort to indulge the fantasy, but deng isn't the right shot to take.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I've said that in another post but I'll say it again, the only way he can score even remotely efficiently is 18 foot isos. If we are running 18 foot isos, they won't be for him. http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/pl...-REG?ui=zone14

That is his last full regular season with one team and the last time he didn't get to just run 18 ft ISO after 18 ft iso on a team with no nba offensive talent.

So you're saying the only way he can score is if he runs the same plays he ran on a bad offensive team, and not only is he incapable of changing under Carlisle, but that also makes him worse than Marion?

You got anything else? Because I think that's a weaker argument than just 16 PPG.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So you're saying the only way he can score is if he runs the same plays he ran on a bad offensive team, and not only is he incapable of changing under Carlisle, but that also makes him worse than Marion?

You got anything else? Because I think that's a weaker argument than just 16 PPG.

I'm saying that he won't get to run those plays. At no point in time while we are actually in a competetive game will it make sense to repeatedly run 18 foot isos for luol deng. Short of dirk and monta and jose getting hurt, Vince not resigning, and us not signing anyone else with any offensive talent it just isn't going to happen. And I advise you to actually click on that first shot chart.

[Five-ofan]

Iv made this argument before though and there is no way either of us are changing each others minds apparently so well wait and see and if we sign him I'll hope like hell I'm wrong but if you want to read my original more detailed response of why he won't work offensively here, here it is.

Because what he does to get most of those points, he won't get to do here. He's the anti monta Ellis. Monta was a player with obvious flaws but who had an obvious route to succeed on this team. The pick and roll with dirk and just flat attacking the rim while our shooting spaced the floor.

Deng doesn't really have any huge holes other than shooting in his game but he also doesn't have a clear path to success. There are obviously a ton of ways to score in an basketball game but if you were going to break them down they would look like this in no order spot up shooting(deng can't do it), pick and roll ball handling(deng can't do it), pick and roll screening(he can do it in the sense that anyone can do it and he actually currently finishes a decent number of pick and rolls with the mid post game dirk has, he's just not good enough at it for that to be a desired outcome), cuts(deng is solid at this but not special), garbage including offensive rebounds, broken plays and the like(deng isn't much of an offensive rebounder but he gets a decent amount of garbage buckets due to his bbiq), and finally iso either on the perimeter or in the post. This is how deng gets most of his points, on 18 foot ft line extended isos. The problem with that is, if he comes to the mavs and we are goin to run 18 ft ft line extended isos for a forward, he won't be getting them.

I'm really curious, what exactly do you think we will run for him for him to score so much? Do you really think we ISO him with dirk or monta or vince or even harris on the floor consistently? Do you think he spots up and suddenly becomes a much better shooter? Do we choose to use him as the roll man in the pick and roll instead of dirk? I just honestly don't see it happening. Deng is every bit as bad if not worse as a shooter than Marion(and I mean Marion now, not Phoenix Marion) he doesn't rebound as well and hes not much of a passer either.

[mac222b]

Count me among those that have come around to your way of thinking on Deng, Five-0.
I do think that Deng could conceivably up his shooting % here. Deng is a good defender but not as versatile as Shawn. Deng on Tony Parker for instance is not advisable.

In a vacuum I prefer Ariza for his better 3pt shooting and ability to switch onto smaller players, a seemingly more valuable skill than Deng's ability to guard the 3/4 spots in today's NBA. Not to mention Ariza likely being paid less than Deng. Unfortunately Ariza will probably re-sign with Washington.

What if Marion returning is actually the Mavs best play this offseason? There arent many options out there and Shawn is a known quantity. There is familiarity and some chemistry developed with this group. Is a PJ Tucker or Aminu type really any upgrade if Ariza re-signs and MBT doesn't think Deng is a 12m player. Why not Shawn and Xavier Henry with money left for VC, Devin and Center upgrade?

[blessednegr0]

I would actually like to try and put most of our money towards the center and PG position while trying to trade Calderon. I would love it if we could get Asik/Monroe and maybe Lowry? I would then want to take a flier on a guy like Danny Granger. I think he can be just as solid defensively. He is a great team player, and cheaper then Deng and Ariza.

What do you guys think?

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

I would actually like to try and put most of our money towards the center and PG position while trying to trade Calderon. I would love it if we could get Asik/Monroe and maybe Lowry? I would then want to take a flier on a guy like Danny Granger. I think he can be just as solid defensively. He is a great team player, and cheaper then Deng and Ariza.

What do you guys think?

It's possible, but I think at this point based on the tidbits of information we have it's safe to say it has a low probability of happening. Greg Monroe for one I seriously doubt will be heading our way. Poor defensive center who already has several suitors lined up to overpay. Also from what I have read Danny Granger is very unlikely to be our guy. I just can't see why we would pursue him over Marion or Carter. His game last year was noticeably bad and horrible in the playoffs. Asik on the other hand is a perfect fit, but Houston has no reason to give him to us.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Count me among those that have come around to your way of thinking on Deng, Five-0.
I do think that Deng could conceivably up his shooting % here. Deng is a good defender but not as versatile as Shawn. Deng on Tony Parker for instance is not advisable.

In a vacuum I prefer Ariza for his better 3pt shooting and ability to switch onto smaller players, a seemingly more valuable skill than Deng's ability to guard the 3/4 spots in today's NBA. Not to mention Ariza likely being paid less than Deng. Unfortunately Ariza will probably re-sign with Washington.

What if Marion returning is actually the Mavs best play this offseason? There arent many options out there and Shawn is a known quantity. There is familiarity and some chemistry developed with this group. Is a PJ Tucker or Aminu type really any upgrade if Ariza re-signs and MBT doesn't think Deng is a 12m player. Why not Shawn and Xavier Henry with money left for VC, Devin and Center upgrade?

I think it's important to remember the decline Shawn Marion is seeing in his game. If we could get close to 12-13 performance then sure problem solved. When watching his game it's very apparent that the minutes are catching up to him. If we bring him back it needs to be off the bench and cutting his minutes in half. Fresh legs might enable Marion to be an elite defender again. So to answer your question, Yes PJ Tucker really is an upgrade.

[Eman]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sure, but Pau Gasol at center still isn't getting us past the Spurs... I'd rather see if Okafor is healthy and roll with him and Dalembert - at least they're both defensive-minded centers.

Pau Gasol is light years better than Okafor! Look at the stats! Pau will make our center rotation better defensively (he is a reasonably good shot blocker) and way better offensively, better rebounding as well. If we have Deng at small forward, Pau at Center/backup pf, Dirk at PF, Monte and Calderon/harris, Wow, what a roster! What scoring, and better defense than last year with Dally coming off the bench (and maybe Marion?).

I'd rather have Monroe because he's 23 and still developing, but we would be big time contenders with that roster.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

First of all, Wright and/or Blair aren't seeing ANY minutes at the 4 with Dirk and Pau on the roster

I would disagree with this. Four minutes is not much and it is very likely that both Dirk and Pau will be out of the game at some point together. That would result in Sam+Wright, Blair+Wright, or Sam+Blair against large teams say for instance Memphis. Who knows, it could even be small ball with Sam, Dirk, and Pau all being out and then Blair+Marion type lineup. My point was only that Dirk and Pau both be out at the same time which is very feasible.

Originally Posted by Underdog

And it might be a bit of a stretch to assume Dalembert will average 24 MPG considering he hasn't played that much since 10-11 and he's another year older

Actually, this is very likely as he is a 24.7 mpg player for his career. There were several times where he was in RC's doghouse last season and was either pulled or just flat out didn't play. There is not reason not to believe that being on a team for a second season doesn't smooth out expectations and performance.

Originally Posted by Underdog

Also, I don't know how much I want to see Dirk and Pau on the floor together defensively (or Wright/Blair and Pau), but obviously Pau can't play the 4 & 5 at the same time...

Looking at those rotations, I think adding Pau to the roster as currently constructed is just going to make a mess of things. Seems like we need to replace Dalembert with someone who can play heavier minutes to make it work.

OK, sometimes you need to just take a step back and look at things. Dirk and Pau are each average defenders. No, they are not TC in his prime who is probably not that right now either. But everyone needs to realistically look at who is available and at what price. You are talking about a proven championship level player that is extremely intelligent and truly plays a team game. I could give your 2 arguments for signing him for every 1 you give not to. Is it a perfect fit? No, but Dwight is not coming here. Would it work with our system? Yes, it would especially given our ~2 year window with Dirk right now.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I would disagree with this. Four minutes is not much and it is very likely that both Dirk and Pau will be out of the game at some point together. That would result in Sam+Wright, Blair+Wright, or Sam+Blair against large teams say for instance Memphis. Who knows, it could even be small ball with Sam, Dirk, and Pau all being out and then Blair+Marion type lineup. My point was only that Dirk and Pau both be out at the same time which is very feasible.



Actually, this is very likely as he is a 24.7 mpg player for his career. There were several times where he was in RC's doghouse last season and was either pulled or just flat out didn't play. There is not reason not to believe that being on a team for a second season doesn't smooth out expectations and performance.



OK, sometimes you need to just take a step back and look at things. Dirk and Pau are each average defenders. No, they are not TC in his prime who is probably not that right now either. But everyone needs to realistically look at who is available and at what price. You are talking about a proven championship level player that is extremely intelligent and truly plays a team game. I could give your 2 arguments for signing him for every 1 you give not to. Is it a perfect fit? No, but Dwight is not coming here. Would it work with our system? Yes, it would especially given our ~2 year window with Dirk right now.

Dirk is only average when paired with a strong defensive 3 and 5 beside him. To say he is average without a scheme and player to help compensate for his deficiencies would be incorrect IMO.

I am all about Gasol coming at the right price and off the bench, assuming we pull off some sign and trade for Chandler following. If you think we are winning a championship with Gasol as our starting 5 then your mistaken. You seem to forget we have arguably the weakest 1-2 defensively in the league. You act like skill sets matter zero.

Opponent field goal percentage at rim-
Dirk- 52.7%
Gasol- 54.6%

Neither one of those guys can play defense, and they certainly can't do it next to each other. Scheme and composition matter in the nba. It's a fact. The only way to avoid it is to put 2011-14 Wade, Lebron, and Bosh next to each other then lure the best vets in the league to your team with minimum contracts. Even then your 50/50 coming from the East...

"I could make two arguments for signing him for your every 1 not to." Really? That statement is down right laughable. I'm sure you could come up with plenty of arguments.. but it has nothing to do with reality. Making bad arguments doesn't make them right. Could Pau fit? Sure... but not as our starting 5 if we have any hopes of winning a championship.

[Underdog]

Ugh, way too many long-winded debates in this thread, and me with nothing but a smartphone with a cranky keyboard... Gonna have to agree to disagree on the topics of Deng, Gasol, and everyone's burning desire to watch some mediocre Mavs basketball next season.

Let's go get LeBron and call it an offseason...

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mean, I'd rather have Pau than not have Pau if it means having the same center rotation as last season.

Sadly, I see this as the most likely scenario if we dont trade for Chandler.

[MavzMan]

Yes, I am saying at the right price and yes off the bench which I've said from the very beginning. If we get him for something in the range of full MLE and being first off the bench behind Dirk, I think that works very well for us.

I am curious why everyone is hung up on a quality, starter center on another team that is signed through next year. What makes you think that Phil Jackson is going to dump Chandler in our laps for our spare players? Instead of focusing on other GMs helping us out, I'm looking at players that are free agents. And again, I've gone through the list of available PF and C options for us via free agency and Gasol is arguably the best option. Now, I have been convinced by other people on the board that Okafor might be a viable option as well.

Yes, I can make arguments for signing him. If you are limiting possible Mavs players that only make us a championship team, then we will never get there. We have struck out on the true super-star players and even some would call 2nd level players. Monta and Jose are not players that you would normally think get us to a championship. Instead, I would focus on improving the team in some capacity.

Try to look at it this way if nothing else, Pau coming off the bench is our backup C and PF. Is he an upgrade over what we had last year?

And lastly, please do not turn this into something personal by calling my opinions laughable and having nothing to do with reality. 98% of the time I do not post on this board but rather just read it because I value everyone's knowledgeable opinion at least to some degree. The main reason I have started posting recently is because the board has died down considerably and I'm trying to spark more interest to keep it going. I like hard facts in opposing views, like your "opponent FG%" numbers. That is a better argument than "laughable".

[Melonhead]

Cowherd is giving a lot of love to the Mavericks this morning. "Stars arent winning championships, stop star chasing(lebron the outlier). The Mavs did it with one star and a collection of players that formed a TEAM."

"Dwight cant get out of the 1st round, Westbrook, Durant one final in 5 years,Chris Paul,Melo cant get over the hump either."

"We are one ray allen 3 from having SA/Dallas winning 3 of the last 4."