Chris Kaman to the Mavs

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

In his prime, Haywood was considered one of the better defensive centers in the NBA. Dwight Howard called him a candiate for DPOY once, saying no one defended him better.

Haywood slipped here, but even still, he had an acceptable year last year before getting hurt.

I'm not sure people understand JUST how inefficient of an offensive player Kaman has been recently. Again, I expect that to improve, but if it somehow doesn't, it will be a big problem.

Who cares what Dwight says or thinks, I don't. That dude doesn't know if he's coming or going. Haywood was a slight upgrade over Damp regardless of what he was considered by whomever. The difference between Kaman and Haywood overall should be pretty easy to see.

I thought he was having a decent in fact pretty impressive go early last season but he fell off and never got it back. Injury or not idk, I just know that in the end it was the same old Haywood I had gotten used to.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm just not sure how you could admit that Haywood is a starting caliber center, and then go nuts when someone says they'd rather have Haywood than Kaman. Kaman is also considered a marginal starting center in this league. He's well below all star level.

I disagree with his opinion, just like you, but it's far, far from so ridiculous that I would call him a troll. Not that I really care that you did, just surprised by it.

Thanks to my psychic powers, I answered this post a couple posts back...

[sike]

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

The best thing Haywood ever did for us is hurt his hip.

funny line.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Nobody is arguing Brand vs. Kaman... It's the idea of Haywood being better than Kaman that makes my brain recoil in confusion.

If Brand beats out Kaman for the starting center position, then that's a good problem to have, much like Chandler beating out Haywood... But let's not pretend like Kaman is some kind of a bum - he played in an All-Star game as recently as 2010, and he's been plagued by injuries and stuck on one of the worst teams in the league since then.

I see no reason why he can't get his groove back playing under Carlisle and next to Dirk - much like another supposedly washed-up center that was on this roster a year ago...

Well, he certainly played like a bum last year. Again, I'm glad we have him and I expect him to be a good rotation player. But if you're expecting fireworks and dominant double doubles, I think you're going to be disappointed.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, he certainly played like a bum last year. Again, I'm glad we have him and I expect him to be a good rotation player. But if you're expecting fireworks and dominant double doubles, I think you're going to be disappointed.

I didn't expect much from Chandler either...

But Kaman doesn't need to put up double-doubles to be better than Haywood - he just needs to play better than this.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I didn't expect much from Chandler either...

But Kaman doesn't need to put up double-doubles to be better than Haywood - he just needs to play better than this.

*sigh*

I didn't realize we were DB.com level discussion here now.

[LonghornDub]

Guys, I'm still pretty sure that Drew Gooden is better than Chandler. Just sayin'.

[markus1234]

OK guys, enough is enough.

Look at this and tell me what you see.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...82/chris-kaman

Mon 2/13 - Thu 3/22


What i see is "all star" potential. All he needs is motivation, right teammates and right coaching.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

*sigh*

I didn't realize we were DB.com level discussion here now.

Says the guy who is ready to claim that Kaman isn't going to be much of an upgrade over Haywood, even though he's healthy and is playing in a better system with a better coach and better franchise player than he's ever played with in his entire career (especially the last two seasons...)

I sincerely apologize for thinking there's ANY possibility that Kaman regains any of his former glory... Obviously that kind of thing never happens here in Dallas.

I'll take my sorry opinions to DB.com since they're so out of line with reality...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by jthig32

*sigh*

I didn't realize we were DB.com level discussion here now.

Mavstalk?.. anyone?

Is that place still around?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Says the guy who is ready to claim that Kaman isn't going to be much of an upgrade over Haywood, even though he's healthy and is playing in a better system with a better coach and better franchise player than he's ever played with in his entire career (especially the last two seasons...)

I sincerely apologize for thinking there's ANY possibility that Kaman regains any of his former glory... Obviously that kind of thing never happens here in Dallas.

I'll take my sorry opinions to DB.com since they're so out of line with reality...

First of all, the DB.com comment was in reference to your assessment of Haywood, who you appear to be arguing from both sides of your mouth on. You can't say he's a starting caliber center (to defend yourself over arguments you made a couple months ago) and then act like he's some horribly low bar for Kaman to jump over. Pick a stance and stick with in regards to Haywood.

As for Kaman, I don't know that he's ever had a former "glory". He's made one all star game, as an injury replacement. In that vein you could say he's an all star in the same way that Josh Howard is an all star, no? He's put up some impressive offensive numbers on the surface, but he struggles to be efficient, and I hope that a forum that adores Dirk Nowitzki can understand how different two scorers can actually be if you look past their points per game numbers. And he's also a poor defender, which can be an issue, but hopefully something Carlisle can work around.

So no, I don't think he's good bet to be a HUGE upgrade over Haywood. I think he'll be a solid upgrade, and a big one offensively. Is that crazy? I certainly don't think so.

I'm glad we have him. I don't want to tear him down like this. But I think we have to be careful at how we set expectations with a player we all might not be that familiar with. Maybe he'll crush all of our expectations like Chandler, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by markus1234

OK guys, enough is enough.

Look at this and tell me what you see.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...82/chris-kaman

Mon 2/13 - Thu 3/22


What i see is "all star" potential. All he needs is motivation, right teammates and right coaching.

Yeah, he was great in February and March until he got injured. Health, health, health.

(minus those shooting percentages)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

First of all, the DB.com comment was in reference to your assessment of Haywood, who you appear to be arguing from both sides of your mouth on. You can't say he's a starting caliber center (to defend yourself over arguments you made a couple months ago) and then act like he's some horribly low bar for Kaman to jump over. Pick a stance and stick with in regards to Haywood.

As for Kaman, I don't know that he's ever had a former "glory". He's made one all star game, as an injury replacement. In that vein you could say he's an all star in the same way that Josh Howard is an all star, no? He's put up some impressive offensive numbers on the surface, but he struggles to be efficient, and I hope that a forum that adores Dirk Nowitzki can understand how different two scorers can actually be if you look past their points per game numbers. And he's also a poor defender, which can be an issue, but hopefully something Carlisle can work around.

So no, I don't think he's good bet to be a HUGE upgrade over Haywood. I think he'll be a solid upgrade, and a big one offensively. Is that crazy? I certainly don't think so.

I'm glad we have him. I don't want to tear him down like this. But I think we have to be careful at how we set expectations with a player we all might not be that familiar with. Maybe he'll crush all of our expectations like Chandler, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Why can't Haywood be a starting center AND Kaman be a significant upgrade over him? There are 30 teams in the league - those two ideas aren't mutually exclusive...

Or maybe Haywood isn't a starter? I mean, he lost his starter job to Mahinmi and Wright last year, so I'm willing to give up that notion over the idea that Kaman isn't a huge upgrade over Haywood.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by markus1234

OK guys, enough is enough.

Look at this and tell me what you see.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...82/chris-kaman

A guy that needs a shave.

[markus1234]

del

[purplefrog]

The simple fact that the Mavs will be playing 5-on-5 with either Kaman or Brand manning the center position on offense makes next years version of the Mavs far superior imo. Seriously, how many times did we see Haywood get the ball 8-10 feet from the basket and all opposing players moved away to let him drive OR fouled him so he could go to the line. Some of those Haywood drives were painful to watch.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

The simple fact that the Mavs will be playing 5-on-5 with either Kaman or Brand manning the center position on offense makes next years version of the Mavs far superior imo. Seriously, how many times did we see Haywood get the ball 8-10 feet from the basket and all opposing players moved away to let him drive OR fouled him so he could go to the line. Some of those Haywood drives were painful to watch.

Yea. Every time.

[sike]

In 2012 a Kaman vs. Haywood argument is "basketball stupid".

Saying "I prefer defensive minded centers" or "Haywood's defensive impact was underrated by many Mavs fans" are fair basketball opinions. But to say that right now Haywood vs Kaman is "close"...or even "arguable" is about two steps away from lunacy. (Even with Kaman just having a terrible year stranded in NO)

Haywood has ZERO offensive game (to the point that he can't be asked to do anything other than dunk the ball). And on defense, his strong suit, he can't even be allowed to guard offensive minded Centers with any real quickness for long stretches without being completely compromised. A defensive minded center with next to NO offensive game that can only effectively guard a particular type of center. That is Haywood. Does he have merit? Yes. Has he had good seasons? Yes. Are they well behind him? I'm betting that is also "Yes".

Haywood just played a season with two legitimate legends in Kidd and Dirk and the effort he gave them most nights was nothing short of embarrassing. Embarrassing for the franchise and for him as a man.

Say what you will about Kidd's rapid decline, the dude can still pass the ball as well as anyone. Kaman has never played with a passer like Kidd who can put the ball where it needs to be. Haywood had multiple seasons with that and still gave up the ghost.

That is what I can't stand about Haywood: He has proven to me over his 2.5 seasons here that he is a dog in the worst way. When its easy, he may perform well. But put the pressure on, and he shrinks back.

I have yet to see Kaman play with ZERO heart (maybe he will?), but I've witnessed probably a hundred games of exactly that from Haywood.

If it turns out that Kaman is a Haywood caliber bum, I'll be right there at the front of the line admitting it. Admitting that I was terribly wrong.

And I'm not saying that Kaman is anything spectacular, but his game is noticeably more impressive than Haywood's.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

In 2012 a Kaman vs. Haywood argument is "basketball stupid".

Saying "I prefer defensive minded centers" or "Haywood's defensive impact was underrated by many Mavs fans" are fair basketball opinions. But to say that right now Haywood vs Kaman is "close"...or even "arguable" is about two steps away from lunacy. (Even with Kaman just having a terrible year stranded in NO)

Haywood has ZERO offensive game (to the point that he can't be asked to do anything other than dunk the ball). And on defense, his strong suit, he can't even be allowed to guard offensive minded Centers with any real quickness for long stretches without being completely compromised. A defensive minded center with next to NO offensive game that can only effectively guard a particular type of center. That is Haywood. Does he have merit? Yes. Has he had good seasons? Yes. Are they well behind him? I'm betting that is also "Yes".

Haywood just played a season with two legitimate legends in Kidd and Dirk and the effort he gave them most nights was nothing short of embarrassing. Embarrassing for the franchise and for him as a man.

Say what you will about Kidd's rapid decline, the dude can still pass the ball as well as anyone. Kaman has never played with a passer like Kidd who can put the ball where it needs to be. Haywood had multiple seasons with that and still gave up the ghost.

That is what I can't stand about Haywood: He has proven to me over his 2.5 seasons here that he is a dog in the worst way. When its easy, he may perform well. But put the pressure on, and he shrinks back.

I have yet to see Kaman play with ZERO heart (maybe he will?), but I've witnessed probably a hundred games of exactly that from Haywood.

If it turns out that Kaman is a Haywood caliber bum, I'll be right there at the front of the line admitting it. Admitting that I was terribly wrong.

And I'm not saying that Kaman is anything spectacular, but his game is noticeably more impressive than Haywood's.

I defended Haywood all last season, and you know what? I was wrong.

Nobody can take away the solid defense he played against Aldridge or Bynum during our Finals run - he earned any praise that was bestowed upon him a year ago, and nothing he did last season can undo that... But that well has run dry. It was one thing when he lost his starting job to Tyson Chandler, but losing his job to two career-backups like Ian Mahinmi AND Brandon Wright was just pathetic. And you're right, it was a total lack of effort.

Chris Kaman had a lot more reason to give up last season than Haywood, but he didn't... I'd call that an instant upgrade, even if you ignore all the stats that point in Kaman's favor.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by sike

In 2012 a Kaman vs. Haywood argument is "basketball stupid".

Saying "I prefer defensive minded centers" or "Haywood's defensive impact was underrated by many Mavs fans" are fair basketball opinions. But to say that right now Haywood vs Kaman is "close"...or even "arguable" is about two steps away from lunacy. (Even with Kaman just having a terrible year stranded in NO)

Haywood has ZERO offensive game (to the point that he can't be asked to do anything other than dunk the ball). And on defense, his strong suit, he can't even be allowed to guard offensive minded Centers with any real quickness for long stretches without being completely compromised. A defensive minded center with next to NO offensive game that can only effectively guard a particular type of center. That is Haywood. Does he have merit? Yes. Has he had good seasons? Yes. Are they well behind him? I'm betting that is also "Yes".

Haywood just played a season with two legitimate legends in Kidd and Dirk and the effort he gave them most nights was nothing short of embarrassing. Embarrassing for the franchise and for him as a man.

Say what you will about Kidd's rapid decline, the dude can still pass the ball as well as anyone. Kaman has never played with a passer like Kidd who can put the ball where it needs to be. Haywood had multiple seasons with that and still gave up the ghost.

That is what I can't stand about Haywood: He has proven to me over his 2.5 seasons here that he is a dog in the worst way. When its easy, he may perform well. But put the pressure on, and he shrinks back.

I have yet to see Kaman play with ZERO heart (maybe he will?), but I've witnessed probably a hundred games of exactly that from Haywood.

If it turns out that Kaman is a Haywood caliber bum, I'll be right there at the front of the line admitting it. Admitting that I was terribly wrong.

And I'm not saying that Kaman is anything spectacular, but his game is noticeably more impressive than Haywood's.

Rep

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by sike

In 2012 a Kaman vs. Haywood argument is "basketball stupid".

Saying "I prefer defensive minded centers" or "Haywood's defensive impact was underrated by many Mavs fans" are fair basketball opinions. But to say that right now Haywood vs Kaman is "close"...or even "arguable" is about two steps away from lunacy. (Even with Kaman just having a terrible year stranded in NO)

Haywood has ZERO offensive game (to the point that he can't be asked to do anything other than dunk the ball). And on defense, his strong suit, he can't even be allowed to guard offensive minded Centers with any real quickness for long stretches without being completely compromised. A defensive minded center with next to NO offensive game that can only effectively guard a particular type of center. That is Haywood. Does he have merit? Yes. Has he had good seasons? Yes. Are they well behind him? I'm betting that is also "Yes".

Haywood just played a season with two legitimate legends in Kidd and Dirk and the effort he gave them most nights was nothing short of embarrassing. Embarrassing for the franchise and for him as a man.

Say what you will about Kidd's rapid decline, the dude can still pass the ball as well as anyone. Kaman has never played with a passer like Kidd who can put the ball where it needs to be. Haywood had multiple seasons with that and still gave up the ghost.

That is what I can't stand about Haywood: He has proven to me over his 2.5 seasons here that he is a dog in the worst way. When its easy, he may perform well. But put the pressure on, and he shrinks back.

I have yet to see Kaman play with ZERO heart (maybe he will?), but I've witnessed probably a hundred games of exactly that from Haywood.

If it turns out that Kaman is a Haywood caliber bum, I'll be right there at the front of the line admitting it. Admitting that I was terribly wrong.

And I'm not saying that Kaman is anything spectacular, but his game is noticeably more impressive than Haywood's.

Well done.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

And on defense, his strong suit, he can't even be allowed to guard offensive minded Centers with any real quickness for long stretches without being completely compromised. A defensive minded center with next to NO offensive game that can only effectively guard a particular type of center. That is Haywood. Does he have merit? Yes. Has he had good seasons? Yes. Are they well behind him? I'm betting that is also "Yes".

This just isn't true. At least, it wasn't true before his injury last year. Haywood made Al Jefferson his bitch for most of last season, to the point that Jefferson was giving quotes about how hard it was to work against him. Haywood guarded Aldridge SO much better than Tyson in our playoff run. This is not to say that there weren't matchups that were terrible for Haywood. There were. But this blanket statement goes way too far.

Haywood was a legitimately value defensive center, and I think a lot of people are letting the 4 game playoff series color their opinion of him to the extreme. Again, not saying he was a stud, but he wasn't a scrub. He brought value defensively.

I'm also curious about the "dog" assessment. I actually had a much bigger issue with Haywood's effort two years ago. I called him out on numerous occasions for lack of effort. I thought he seemed much more engaged this past season.

All of the stuff about the offense is very true, but there's no reason to to to such extremes to negate his defense.

And let me just state, again, that I'm glad we have Kaman, and I think he will help, and I think he'll be an upgrade over Haywood. But I don't think someone would be an idiot for saying, given certain circumstances, they would rather have Haywood. In fact, if we still had Kidd and Jet playing the majority of the minutes in the back court, I don't think Kaman would work at all. But we don't, to that's good.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This just isn't true. At least, it wasn't true before his injury last year. Haywood made Al Jefferson his bitch for most of last season, to the point that Jefferson was giving quotes about how hard it was to work against him. Haywood guarded Aldridge SO much better than Tyson in our playoff run.

It is fair to say he guarded Jefferson well. But to me, Jefferson is a strange case. Jefferson is a smallish center who plays right into Haywood's defensive strengths. He likes the post. Takes 1 or 2 dribbles and then shoots. In that situation, I think Haywood's pure strength overcomes Jefferson's back to the basket game.

Haywood's success against LaMarcus was more do to Aldridge's youth than Haywood's expertise. LA Still averaged almost 21 a game in that series which was right around his average for the season. I'm sure that you would agree with me that given the same opportunity today, Aldridge would routinely kill him.

I'm also curious about the "dog" assessment. I actually had a much bigger issue with Haywood's effort two years ago. I called him out on numerous occasions for lack of effort. I thought he seemed much more engaged this past season.

I thought he seemed not "engaged" but overwhelming "content" to play a meager role as a back up to 2 non centers. When I say he has no heart, I mean he has no drive, no passion, no fire, no will to win, etc. I'm not looking for a Jr. KG, or Dirk, etc...but you MUST want to compete! And he simply doesn't appear to care about that. (I realize that this is entirely subjective, but it is how I read the guy.) He is fine with losing.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Haywood guarded Aldridge SO much better than Tyson in our playoff run.

Wood played

16min win
20min win

30min loss
18min loss

13min win
15min win

in this series. (Aldridge played 44min) Just saying.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This just isn't true. At least, it wasn't true before his injury last year. Haywood made Al Jefferson his bitch for most of last season, to the point that Jefferson was giving quotes about how hard it was to work against him. Haywood guarded Aldridge SO much better than Tyson in our playoff run. This is not to say that there weren't matchups that were terrible for Haywood. There were. But this blanket statement goes way too far.

Haywood was a legitimately value defensive center, and I think a lot of people are letting the 4 game playoff series color their opinion of him to the extreme. Again, not saying he was a stud, but he wasn't a scrub. He brought value defensively.

I'm also curious about the "dog" assessment. I actually had a much bigger issue with Haywood's effort two years ago. I called him out on numerous occasions for lack of effort. I thought he seemed much more engaged this past season.

All of the stuff about the offense is very true, but there's no reason to to to such extremes to negate his defense.

And let me just state, again, that I'm glad we have Kaman, and I think he will help, and I think he'll be an upgrade over Haywood. But I don't think someone would be an idiot for saying, given certain circumstances, they would rather have Haywood. In fact, if we still had Kidd and Jet playing the majority of the minutes in the back court, I don't think Kaman would work at all. But we don't, to that's good.

That's where almost everyone else disagrees with your opinion.

[purplefrog]

IMO, Haywood's effort last season waxed and waned like our current economy.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

Haywood's success against LaMarcus was more do to Aldridge's youth than Haywood's expertise. LA Still averaged almost 21 a game in that series which was right around his average for the season. I'm sure that you would agree with me that given the same opportunity today, Aldridge would routinely kill him.

I don't really understand pointing to his youth. He certainly gave Tyson fits in stretches, by my recollection. And he did stay at his average ppg, but with a significantly lower shooting percentage.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

That's where almost everyone else disagrees with your opinion.

Everyone has a right to be wrong.

Seriously though, be thankful that we won't have to watch Kaman try to defend the rim against all of the guys blowing by Kidd and Jet. If we still had them, and taking into account Kaman's injury history, I really would think long and hard about taking Haywood over Kaman. I'm not sure where I'd lean.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't really understand pointing to his youth. He certainly gave Tyson fits in stretches, by my recollection. And he did stay at his average ppg, but with a significantly lower shooting percentage.

I thought I made my point about his youth when I said that I doubted that Haywood would have success against LA now.

Also, I'm not ready to assume that he was missing shots bc of of Haywood and making shots against TC. I just don't have the memory for that or the data in front of me. (But we're not talking about Tyson here. I've been pretty clear that I find his man defense to be fairly overrated as well.)

If you assure me that was the case, I'll have to believe you.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Everyone has a right to be wrong.

Seriously though, be thankful that we won't have to watch Kaman try to defend the rim against all of the guys blowing by Kidd and Jet. If we still had them, and taking into account Kaman's injury history, I really would think long and hard about taking Haywood over Kaman. I'm not sure where I'd lean.

This conversation, the best I can tell, has not been about who is a better fit on a given roster, but who is a better player. So the Kidd/JET inclusion seems out of left field. (especially since they are not here.)

I understand what you mean by it, but the discussion is about a pretty basic player evaluation...and is one (Kaman) a significant upgrade over the other (Haywood).

[sike]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

IMO, Haywood's effort last season waxed and waned like our current economy.

My point is that he was content being a 2nd or 3rd string center. If you're playing on a roster with Russell and Shaq, I get it...but not Wright and Ian.

[Murphy3]

I do worry about losing Haywood defensively... just saying..

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

This conversation, the best I can tell, has not been about who is a better fit on a given roster, but who is a better player. So the Kidd/JET inclusion seems out of left field. (especially since they are not here.)

I understand what you mean by it, but the discussion is about a pretty basic player evaluation...and is one (Kaman) a significant upgrade over the other (Haywood).

It's part of my point, though. I think that Kaman and Haywood are close ENOUGH that further context has to be brought into the discussion.

Haywood and Kaman are on two separate extremes. One is good at what the other is pretty bad at. Some people appear to have the opinion that Kaman is such an upgrade that they would never, ever take Haywood on their roster over Kaman. I disagree and am giving an example of a situation where I would consider it.

[Bayliss]

The problem with Haywood was his offense more than his defense. Haywood's defense was really solid. Even last year he was really good. Besides Jefferson, Haywood played Howard well. And he played Bynum well. The problem though is the discrepancy in point differential or offensive differential while playing Haywood.

When Haywood played you will receive about 5 points. Well, if that center or PF he is guarding scores 20. Then your team is already in a hole by 15 points. Sure Haywood made the playter work for his 20 but it is still a HUGE net loss in the scoring department. Then not only that but Haywood on offense made the other players worse. Having Haywood out there meant Dirk receives more attention from the oposing team's center because that center doesn't even have to guard Haywood. Centers can just pack the paint. And just because he can't score doesn't mean he would be useless out there. Noah can't score much at all. Yet, he is a great passer. He is a hustler deluxe getting offensive boards. Haywood sets some screens but is a HORRIBLE decisionmaker on offense.

So essentially whatever Haywood brings on defense is so overwhelmingly nullified by the offense that it is hard to keep him on the court.

That is why you saw Wright and Mahinmi play so much last year. Both are not as good defensively as Haywood but both made up for it by being a threat to score.

Kaman is WORLD'S better than Wright and Mahinmi on both sides of the ball.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I do worry about losing Haywood defensively... just saying..

With the added backcourt defense, I think Kaman/Brand will do just fine.

I'm betting Brand alone will cause you to forget the 21min a night from Haywood.

[Bayliss]

IMO, Haywood's effort last season waxed and waned like our current economy.

I think Greece's economy would be a better analogy.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's part of my point, though. I think that Kaman and Haywood are close ENOUGH that further context has to be brought into the discussion.

Ah. I disagree.

Haywood and Kaman are on two separate extremes. One is good at what the other is pretty bad at. Some people appear to have the opinion that Kaman is such an upgrade that they would never, ever take Haywood on their roster over Kaman. I disagree and am giving an example of a situation where I would consider it.

Do you agree with the following:
Kaman is a better than average offensive center.
Haywood is an extremely poor offensive center.

Haywood is good defensive center.
Kaman is an average defensive center.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

Do you agree with the following:
Kaman is a better than average offensive center.
Haywood is an extremely poor offensive center.

Haywood is good defensive center.
Kaman is an average defensive center.

No, I think Kaman is a below average defensive center.

That still leaves Kaman ahead in this simplistic comparison, but his health history is the other factor that must be accounted for.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The good news is that the Mavs can afford to have Kaman take games off if needed with Brand here. Brand and Wright can hold the fort for the 10-20 games Kaman is likely to miss.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by sike

With the added backcourt defense, I think Kaman/Brand will do just fine.

I'm betting Brand alone will cause you to forget the 21min a night from Haywood.

Brand+Haywood for 48 would be nice defensively.

Trust me, I'm thrilled to have Brand and Kayman. This could put the Mavs in the best position they've ever been at the center position in the history of the franchise for one season. Obviously, we'll have to see how the season plays out.