Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade? - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkadirkastan · 01-29-2008, 05:29 PM

Harris for Kidd is a no-brainer... for the Nets.

AxdemxO · 01-29-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Harris for Kidd is a no-brainer... for the Nets.

Actually one could say that thts not true. They still have Williams and he is just now slowly working himself back into the game, but when he was playing I believe it was his rookie season he was on the same level as Harris at that time, Harris is got more experience now and is obviously better but Williams IMO if he is completely rehab and plays has potential to be as good as Harris or better. I think the Nets might be looking for a big mann (ex: J Oneal). thats why they wanted Baynum

Dirkadirkastan · 01-29-2008, 05:53 PM

...and Kidd isn't that big man either. They're having a tough time both using Kidd and shopping Kidd, so they really wouldn't have anything to lose if they tried the same with Harris.

SeriousSummer · 01-29-2008, 06:03 PM

It's hard for me to see anything that makes sense, especially since you have to make the salaries match. For example:

Terry/Stackhouse/George/Diop for Kidd/Malik Allen works, and makes a little sense because George and Diop are expiring contracts, Terry is a useful player and Stackhouse has only one year left on an expiring contract. New Jersey is only carrying 13 players so a 4 for 2 deal can work without cutting anyone. But George has to approve the deal, and he loses his "Bird Rights" if he does so--so don't you have to do something to pay him off.

New Jersey wants young players (which this deal doesn't get them) or draft picks--Dallas could throw in a No. 1, but Dallas's No. 1 pick isn't likely to be worth much for the next few years.

Dallas loses both it's two bench scorers, so it's short a bunch of scoring--maybe with Kidd as the ball handler that helps. You have a problem demoting Harris, unless you play Harris and Kidd together in the backcourt.

I woundn't say it's impossible, but it's awkard and you probably do need a third team.

dalmations202 · 01-29-2008, 06:07 PM

I am guessing that if a deal is done with the Mavs.... KVH plays a huge part. Draft picks, KVH, and a third team who sends the youngster. (not sure who gets what for the third team)

Very hard to do.

MFFL · 01-29-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

IStackhouse has only one year left on an expiring contract.

Stack signed a three year deal this July so he's got two more after this one.

Windmill360 · 01-29-2008, 08:16 PM

Yes kidd would be a great pointguard here, but i want him because of the intangibles and leadership.

Oh and Kidd is telling his friends he wants to go to Dallas http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...alt_to_dallas/

skylive321 · 01-29-2008, 08:28 PM

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2008/1/29/173127/128

this article puts some stuff into perspective.

Robillion · 01-29-2008, 09:22 PM

You know what... Im starting to actually really want Kidd here.

G-Man · 01-30-2008, 01:30 AM

I'm not a big Hollinger fan, but he does state the obvious. Only an idiot would trade Harris for Kidd.

In the last month, Devin has demonstrated the ability to consistantly take over games by shredding defenses with his speed. Plus, now that his jumper is working, the only question mark is his durabilty, and you certainly don't fix that by replacing him with an old man.

I don't mind Kidd on the team... I'd much rather see him running the offense than Jet, but there is just not much I'd give up to get him. Stack, George, Faz and JJ. Terry would be great as a pure shooting 2...enough to make up for Stack. I'd do that just to keep him away from CLE

Underdog · 01-30-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I'm not a big Hollinger fan, but he does state the obvious. Only an idiot would trade Harris for Kidd.

In the last month, Devin has demonstrated the ability to consistantly take over games by shredding defenses with his speed. Plus, now that his jumper is working, the only question mark is his durabilty, and you certainly don't fix that by replacing him with an old man.

I don't mind Kidd on the team... I'd much rather see him running the offense than Jet, but there is just not much I'd give up to get him. Stack, George, Faz and JJ. Terry would be great as a pure shooting 2...enough to make up for Stack. I'd do that just to keep him away from CLE

Devin Harris = Spurs Killer

skylive321 · 01-30-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Devin Harris = Spurs Killer

I hear you buddy , but have you seen the spurs lately? They are starting to look their age.

Underdog · 01-30-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

I hear you buddy , but have you seen the spurs lately? They are starting to look their age.

I was saying the same thing around the All-Star break last season... Hopefully it's for-really-real this time...

skylive321 · 01-30-2008, 11:53 AM

Complicated Three-Team Scenario
Jason Kidd | Nets
The Nets are discussing a complicated three-team scenario with the Mavericks and Blazers in which Jason Kidd would go to Dallas, league sources said.
In return, the Nets would get back young players (Jarrett Jack and Travis Outlaw), expiring contracts (Devean George, DeSagana Diop), Jerry Stackhouse, draft picks and cash. More players, including other Nets, would be involved. -- The Record

The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as the front-runners for Jason Kidd.
"I can't imagine Rod Thorn sending Kidd to a team in the East," said an Eastern Conference GM, referring to the Nets president. "They're going to want to get Kidd as far away from Dodge as possible. Dallas is a legitimate option." -- New York Daily News

The Lakers are not expected to be a player in a trade for New Jersey's Jason Kidd, a source said. -- Los Angeles Times
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/featu...tures%2frumors

MavsFanFinley · 01-30-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

Complicated Three-Team Scenario
Jason Kidd | Nets
The Nets are discussing a complicated three-team scenario with the Mavericks and Blazers in which Jason Kidd would go to Dallas, league sources said.
In return, the Nets would get back young players (Jarrett Jack and Travis Outlaw), expiring contracts (Devean George, DeSagana Diop), Jerry Stackhouse, draft picks and cash. More players, including other Nets, would be involved. -- The Record

I'd sure like to know what the Blazers are getting to be giving up Outlaw. He's been playing very well for them. I know they've tried trading Jack in the past so that's no big surprise.

The Mavs luck out by not giving up much. Diop is the only worry cause of Damp's health though.

chumdawg · 01-30-2008, 12:01 PM

Maybe Carter goes to Portland?

dirno2000 · 01-30-2008, 12:05 PM

According to Norm Devin would go to Portland.

So we'd be essentially giving up Harris, Stackhouse, George and Diop for Kidd.

I wouldn't even consider that trade.

jthig32 · 01-30-2008, 12:15 PM

Norm is high. There is no chance of that.

MavsFanFinley · 01-30-2008, 12:15 PM

Devin in Portland is just down right scary but I give him up before I do Howard who NJ was asking for.

It says other players will be involved so I'm sure Dallas gets one or two back. No way they send out 4 guys and only get 1 in return.

Underdog · 01-30-2008, 12:17 PM

I'd love to give up Harris, Stackhouse, George and Diop for Kidd, only to see Kidd injure himself, miss the playoffs, squander Dirk and Kidd's prime years, then rebuild the team around Ager...

seelenjaeger · 01-30-2008, 12:46 PM

You´ve got to cash in at some point. Avery´s statement that Harris "is becoming all star caliber" is ignoring the fact that he´s playing against CP3, Eva´s husband and Captn Canada at this poistion atm, and even if he might be all star caliber in 2-3 years this will be Dirks declining years.

If you want to win a championship with Dirk and Howard, you might have to sacrifice Devin (he´s taking way too long to develop so far anyways, dealing for him already cost us 2 years we could have aswell won a championship with veteran instead of Devin at the helm).

If you settle with winning a championship with Howard and Devin at some point, fine. But Dirks prime is no 2-3 more years down the road.

chumdawg · 01-30-2008, 12:58 PM

Very interesting points, seelenjaeger.

jthig32 · 01-30-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

You´ve got to cash in at some point. Avery´s statement that Harris "is becoming all star caliber" is ignoring the fact that he´s playing against CP3, Eva´s husband and Captn Canada at this poistion atm, and even if he might be all star caliber in 2-3 years this will be Dirks declining years.

If you want to win a championship with Dirk and Howard, you might have to sacrifice Devin (he´s taking way too long to develop so far anyways, dealing for him already cost us 2 years we could have aswell won a championship with veteran instead of Devin at the helm).

If you settle with winning a championship with Howard and Devin at some point, fine. But Dirks prime is no 2-3 more years down the road.

Those are fine points, if you see swapping Harris for Kidd to be a dramatic improvement.

I do not. And I cetainly don't think Harris, Stack and Diop for Kidd is an improvement of any kind. That's a step backwards, and it would never even be considered by the Mavs, imo.

I think some people are sleeping on just how good Devin has been this season. And how far from his previous form Kidd is right now.

FINtastic · 01-30-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

You´ve got to cash in at some point. Avery´s statement that Harris "is becoming all star caliber" is ignoring the fact that he´s playing against CP3, Eva´s husband and Captn Canada at this poistion atm, and even if he might be all star caliber in 2-3 years this will be Dirks declining years.

If you want to win a championship with Dirk and Howard, you might have to sacrifice Devin (he´s taking way too long to develop so far anyways, dealing for him already cost us 2 years we could have aswell won a championship with veteran instead of Devin at the helm).

If you settle with winning a championship with Howard and Devin at some point, fine. But Dirks prime is no 2-3 more years down the road.

That's kind of my take right now. I've grown on Devin some this year, but I'm still not as high on him as some people on these boards are. He seems to have some limitations that I think will limit him from where people here seem to think he could end up.

That being said, I wonder about trading for a commodity like Kidd. He's obviously getting old, but still playing at a high level. You'd be trading to win now. With where the Mavs are currently, I'm okay with that strategy so I'd probably do Harris for Kidd straight up. However, if the Mavs have to throw in 3 more players, I'd start getting very hesitant.

Anyways, I've gotten to the point where I doubt these trade scenarios will ever come to fruition, but it is an interesting hypothetical to bat around.

FINtastic · 01-30-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Those are fine points, if you see swapping Harris for Kidd to be a dramatic improvement.

I do not. And I cetainly don't think Harris, Stack and Diop for Kidd is an improvement of any kind. That's a step backwards, and it would never even be considered by the Mavs, imo.

I think some people are sleeping on just how good Devin has been this season. And how far from his previous form Kidd is right now.

I don't think Kidd has fallen that much. He can still run a team as well as any point guard in the league, even if his scoring has dipped some. With players like Howard, Dirk, and Terry, I would think that Kidd's passing could make up for the loss of a few extra points that Harris provides. The only problem I see, is that maybe Dallas players have gotten so used to isolating to create shots, that playing with an amazing passing point guard like Kidd doesn't add much to the team because the team won't adjust quick enough. With that being said, I'd still do the Kidd for Harris deal.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-30-2008, 01:27 PM

I wonder if we could do a package that involved Kidd and Carter. I know some of you don't like him but come on....Kidd, VC, Howard, Dirk, Damp??? I'll take that over any team in the league.

FINtastic · 01-30-2008, 01:33 PM

I wonder if Fake Jason Kidd has any feelings on this topic that he can only express through song?

Underdog · 01-30-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I'd probably do Harris for Kidd straight up. However, if the Mavs have to throw in 3 more players, I'd start getting very hesitant.

Kidd is due to make $41mil this season & next, so a straight up swap for Devin isn't going to get it done... Do you gut your team/chemistry for an aging superstar?

Also, is the PG position really our biggest concern? Aren't there other players at other positions (like the 2) that would cost us less, but could put us more over the top than Kidd would (especially when you factor in the cost of players)? Wouldn't you rather replace Eddie Jones with a solid starter than put all our eggs in one basket by taking a risk on Kidd?

If Kidd doesn't put us over the top, then you HAVE wasted Dirk's prime because Kidd isn't getting any better/younger/cheaper and Harris still has more upside (not to mention he's already the third most-effective player on the squad...)

FINtastic · 01-30-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd is due to make $41mil this season & next, so a straight up swap for Devin isn't going to get it done... Do you gut your team/chemistry for an aging superstar?

Also, is the PG position really our biggest concern? Aren't there other players at other positions (like the 2) that would cost us less, but could put us more over the top than Kidd would (especially when you factor in the cost)? Wouldn't you rather replace Eddie Jones with a solid starter than put all our eggs in one basket by taking the risk on Kidd?

If Kidd doesn't put us over the top, then you HAVE wasted Dirk's prime because Kidd isn't getting any better/younger/cheaper and Harris still has more upside (not to mention he's already the third most-effective player on the squad...)

It may not be our biggest concern, but I still don't look at it as a strength. If you have a chance to add a borderline superstar, no matter the age, do you it?

The truth is, to upgrade any position on this team, you are probably going to have to give up Devin. He's the only real tradeable commodity the Mavericks have on the roster that would seem to fetch anything of value.

Underdog · 01-30-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If you have a chance to add a borderline superstar, no matter the age, do you it?

So we should go after Shaq?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

The truth is, to upgrade any position on this team, you are probably going to have to give up Devin. He's the only real tradeable commodity the Mavericks have on the roster that would seem to fetch anything of value.

You don't think Terry could bring us a better 2-guard than Eddie Jones?

jthig32 · 01-30-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I don't think Kidd has fallen that much. He can still run a team as well as any point guard in the league, even if his scoring has dipped some. With players like Howard, Dirk, and Terry, I would think that Kidd's passing could make up for the loss of a few extra points that Harris provides. The only problem I see, is that maybe Dallas players have gotten so used to isolating to create shots, that playing with an amazing passing point guard like Kidd doesn't add much to the team because the team won't adjust quick enough. With that being said, I'd still do the Kidd for Harris deal.

Here are my problems:

1. We don't run. We are one of the most non-running teams in the league. What Kidd does best is push the ball.

2. Kidd can't shoot. At all.

Plus, you can't just talk about Harris for Kidd. In order for the salaries to work you're talking about Harris+Stack+George or something like that for Kidd.

Not only would I not do that, I would laugh at the mere thought of it.

sike · 01-30-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Not only would I not do that, I would laugh at the mere thought of it.

so you think of this trade when you need a pick me up?

jthig32 · 01-30-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

so you think of this trade when you need a pick me up?

I do. It makes me laugh.

And I need one right now.

dirno2000 · 01-30-2008, 02:33 PM

I haven't paid much attention to NJ or Kidd this year but his fg% (36.6%) scares me. We've always known he chouldn't shoot but that percentage would seem to indicate that he's not getting to the basket as much either. I'm guessing he's lost a step which won't help him guard Chris Paul or Tony Parker.

In addition, I've always been of the opinion that guards who dominate the ball and set the table for everyone else don't really benefit or make the game much easier for Dirk and Kidd could make it harder as his man freelances out there.

I don't think adding Kidd improves our chances much if at all and when you start subtracting Diop's and Georges it weakens us.

LonghornDub · 01-30-2008, 03:14 PM

Most of you probably dont have Insider, so I'm gonna post part of this writeup so you can see it.

Quote:

Complicated Three-Team Scenario
Jason Kidd | Nets
The Nets are discussing a complicated three-team scenario with the Mavericks and Blazers in which Jason Kidd would go to Dallas, league sources said.

In return, the Nets would get back young players (Jarrett Jack and Travis Outlaw), expiring contracts (Devean George, DeSagana Diop), Jerry Stackhouse, draft picks and cash. More players, including other Nets, would be involved. -- The Record

# The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as the front-runners for Jason Kidd.

"I can't imagine Rod Thorn sending Kidd to a team in the East," said an Eastern Conference GM, referring to the Nets president. "They're going to want to get Kidd as far away from Dodge as possible. Dallas is a legitimate option." -- New York Daily News

# The Lakers are not expected to be a player in a trade for New Jersey's Jason Kidd, a source said. -- Los Angeles Times

Caseman · 01-30-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Most of you probably dont have Insider, so I'm gonna post part of this writeup so you can see it.

God, I really don't want this trade. Plus, don't they say this every year about Kidd?

LonghornDub · 01-30-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

God, I really don't want this trade. Plus, don't they say this every year about Kidd?

This is a bit more serious than it's been in years past. This is the first time the Nets FO has confirmed that they're looking to trade him.

Flacolaco · 01-30-2008, 03:26 PM

http://mavs.beloblog.com/archives/20...dd_rumors.html

Quote:

Knowing that, a deal that makes sense for two teams is Kidd to the Mavericks. To make the salaries match, the Mavs could offer Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, DeSagana Diop, Juwan Howard and Devean George. The latter three all have expiring contracts, which would clear about about $5 million off the Nets' books this summer, free them of paying Kidd $21-plus million next season and give them a pair of solid guards in Harris and Stackhouse. (Mark Cuban, however, doesn't see it this way. When I asked him via e-mail if the above proposal had any substance, he replied: "Step away from your crack dealer." I'm taking that as a no, he doesn't see that deal happening.)

Windmill360 · 01-30-2008, 03:28 PM

I really would not like to see Diop to go.

endtroducing MASKED · 01-30-2008, 03:31 PM

I don't care about what Harris COULD potentially do. no matter what, the guy is just not going to develop into Chris Paul or Steve Nash. at best, he's Kevin Johnson. I care about winning a world title NOW, and Kidd gives you that. as long as we still have one solid bench scorer, do that deal. would you rather win a title or see Devin maybe turn into a 20 and 6 player? I know what I want...