2019 Mavs Free Agency - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Cousins on a 2-year with a team option for 3...I’m into it. If we don’t have some kind of toughness with a star-level player, I think the team would be too soft as a whole. If you have a lineup with Beverley and Cousins, I think that’s enough edge, though. I like Vucevic, but that much money for that many year for a guy who has no truly elite skills....Dampier esque (not that bad but still). Cousins has the potential to move the needle to truly elite offensive status. The pick and pops...the screens...the passes...hose me down

Did you watch Vuce this year? Dude is also shooting 38% from downtown and has 4 APG on a shitty team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2VaoxUBmw

EricaLubarsky · 02-08-2019, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Did you watch Vuce this year? Dude is also shooting 38% from downtown and has 4 APG on a shitty team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2VaoxUBmw

Yeah dude has range to about 23' and like many Euros, has an underrated passing game. He makes a lot of smart passes like Nurkic and keeps the offense crisp. He would help keep the ball flowing in the flow. He also has good footwork and has a decent eurostep.

The only hit on Vuc is his defense which isn't amazing. Not Jordan bad, but not great. Having KP to block shots next to him would make up for some of that though.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-08-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What the hell... bro, you need to be hosed down. You just used Dampier and Vucevic in the same sentence. Not as BAD as Dampier?? Vucevic is bad... badass. He is truly elite. He can do it all offensively and he is aggressive on both ends. He can beat guys off the dribble going left and right. Can finish with either hand. Has great post skills with a nice touch. Rebounds with the best. Passes at a high level. Shoots .381% from 3..which I believe would lead our team. Vuce is much much closer to a Marc Gasol and Cousins hybrid than Dampier.

Don't underrate Dampier though. Remember, he was the 2nd best center in the league behind Shaq. XD

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-08-2019, 11:09 AM

It is an interesting discussion though about how Vuc would fit next to Taps in an NBA that is so guard heavy. I generally think it's probably not a good idea to go big because they can't keep up with the guards.

However, Luka/KP/Vuc are ALL supremely talented and pretty fleet of foot when healthy. I do think they can force teams to alter to them because of this. And it really works because of Luka's size at the pg position being able to distribute.

It will likely have some defensive issues, but man, offensively, it's no question a juggernaut.

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It will likely have some defensive issues, but man, offensively, it's no question a juggernaut.

Yeah, the spacing would be awesome because both KP and Vuce are able to drag the defender out to the perimeter. Vuce shooting 38% from downtown and KP 40% in the season he went down is pretty nuts because both are also strong finisher at the rim. The spacing for Doncic would be insane. Rebounding too....Luka 6-8, KP 7-3, Vuce 7-0, DFS 6-8 (but able to defend guards)

Then you move THJ for sure to the bench and fill the S5 with good/strong roleplayer defender because you dont need more offense

Beverley (40% from downtown the past years)
Doncic
DFS
KP
Vuce

THJ/Kleber/Brunson from the bench. Maybe you sub KP or Vuce early out, so you got the entire game always at least one on the floor. That gives you also plenty minutes with a KP/Kleber or Vuce/Kleber lineup with better defense.

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 11:34 AM

Both Boogie and Vuc will be 29 when next season starts. Its not ideal that they are almost a decade older than Luka but they are young enough that a 4 year deal should be ok. 5 would be excessive though

EricaLubarsky · 02-08-2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Both Boogie and Vuc will be 29 when next season starts. Its not ideal that they are almost a decade older than Luka but they are young enough that a 4 year deal should be ok. 5 would be excessive though

That's kind par for the course with bigs. There aren't a lot of super gifted 19-20 year olds that can play center.

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 11:37 AM

Vuce would be fresh 29....and im fine with handing out four years to any under 30 guy. Our rebuild is over.

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Vuce would be fresh 29....and im fine with handing out four years to any under 30 guy. Our rebuild is over.

Vuce has played 15,290 minutes in his career. Boogie has played one more season and 17,482 minutes. About the same

I like Boogie because he draws fouls - 7.6 per game over his career. Vuce only 2.1

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 12:15 PM

I just dont wanna ruin a good thing with a proven asshole. Im not that desperate anymore with Luka and KP. Cousins can fuck off to Lebron or whoever wants him

Like he almost ruined his rookie teammate Stauskas: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment..._nik_stauskas/

Or bullying an old as dirt sacramento reporter because he wrote stuff he didnt like
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-c...121429187.html

endtroducing MASKED · 02-08-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What the hell... bro, you need to be hosed down. You just used Dampier and Vucevic in the same sentence. Not as BAD as Dampier?? Vucevic is bad... badass. He is truly elite. He can do it all offensively and he is aggressive on both ends. He can beat guys off the dribble going left and right. Can finish with either hand. Has great post skills with a nice touch. Rebounds with the best. Passes at a high level. Shoots .381% from 3..which I believe would lead our team. Vuce is much much closer to a Marc Gasol and Cousins hybrid than Dampier.

There was never a comparison made or intended to be made to them as players....the reference was to being like Dampier because you’d be overpaying by a lot for for a guy who wasn’t elite at any particular skill (and that’s usually a very bad idea with free agents). Obviously it wouldn’t be as big of an overpay (which is what I said)

EricaLubarsky · 02-08-2019, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I just dont wanna ruin a good thing with a proven asshole. Im not that desperate anymore with Luka and KP. Cousins can fuck off to Lebron or whoever wants him

Like he almost ruined his rookie teammate Stauskas: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment..._nik_stauskas/

Or bullying an old as dirt sacramento reporter because he wrote stuff he didnt like
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-c...121429187.html

Personality is a significant factor and it shouldn't be ignored, particularly as we are just barely developing a core.

When we had Fin, Nash, Dirk, and others we were able to pick up malcontents and drama queens (NVE, etc.) and absorb their personalities into something positive. Right now the only core piece we have is Doncic. KP could be good, but he's got a shaky record. I want the two of them to gel into a solid core before I introduce someone like Boogie into the equation. Plus, I think Boogie has a track record of jumping around, having no loyalty, and leaving destruction in his wake.

Both Vuj and Boogie can rebound, pass, spread the floor, etc. One of those guys has already said that he wants to be here. The other is a potential headcase.

endtroducing MASKED · 02-08-2019, 01:05 PM

If Boogie will take 2 years with a PO 3rd and expires as Giannis becomes a FA...what do you say? I feel like Vucevic wants 4 years and becomes kind of a hard asset to move on a long deal, while if Boogie agrees to a more favorable deal that’s easier to move if things didn’t work out...idk. People will forever want to take fliers on him.

Simon2 · 02-08-2019, 02:57 PM

Vuc is the one they should go for. Not just from a skill level but personality as well. He also is a fan of Dirk's. Dirk should play one more year.

Mavs should also try to target a stud defensive swing man that can guard the pg, sg and sf positions.

saclare · 02-08-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Vuce has played 15,290 minutes in his career. Boogie has played one more season and 17,482 minutes. About the same

I like Boogie because he draws fouls - 7.6 per game over his career. Vuce only 2.1

Not really the "about the same" at all - both tread on the tires and developmentally. Also, one of those two has a massive injury he's coming off of...

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 03:31 PM

Julius Randle is a player that I would also consider. Player option for next year and there is no way he's opting in for only $9m

Big, strong, gets to free throw line, and best of all would only be 25 when next season starts

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Not really the "about the same" at all - both tread on the tires and developmentally. Also, one of those two has a massive injury he's coming off of...

And the talent level is not anywhere close to the same at all either. The injury doesn't seem to be affecting him much at the moment and will get better as the season goes on

particleman · 02-08-2019, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Julius Randle is a player that I would also consider.

Big, strong, gets to free throw line, and best of all would only be 25 when next season starts

Co-sign. I think he would be a great fit with Porzingis and Doncic.

EricaLubarsky · 02-08-2019, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

Co-sign. I think he would be a great fit with Porzingis and Doncic.

Actually think the opposite. Wanted him earlier this year with Smith, but now that Doncic has proven himself and we got Doncic, I think he'd have a really tough time.

All three players enjoy playing in the same spots on the floor so there may be congestion. Randle is also much more of a Barnes-type player. In many ways, he's what we were trying to make Barnes into. There was a time and place for that, but Randle is so much about the ISO and drive that I think he would flouder just like Barnes did in our offense.

particleman · 02-08-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Actually think the opposite. Wanted him earlier this year with Smith, but now that Doncic has proven himself and we got Doncic, I think he'd have a really tough time.

All three players enjoy playing in the same spots on the floor so there may be congestion. Randle is also much more of a Barnes-type player. In many ways, he's what we were trying to make Barnes into. There was a time and place for that, but Randle is so much about the ISO and drive that I think he would flouder just like Barnes did in our offense.

Hmm... Honestly I haven't seen him play much, it just seems like he always tears the Mavs up inside. In my mind he's a low-post bruiser, well above average rebounder, and moves the ball better than Barnes... but I trust your take.

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 03:53 PM

Except Randle is GOOD at ISO ball.

Barnes is shooting 40% for the year. Randle is shooting 54%

Barnes is getting 4 fts per game. Randle is getting 6.5

Barnes PER is a very average 13.3, Randle is almost 22

Barnes is getting 1.3 assists per game. Randle is getting 3

Having someone that is a ISO heavy player is not bad. In fact some nights it is necessary. Just have someone who is GOOD at it

EricaLubarsky · 02-08-2019, 03:58 PM

I understand that Randle is better than Barnes, but the similarity of their games is what scares me in addition to how crowded it could get.

SMC0007 · 02-08-2019, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

And the talent level is not anywhere close to the same at all either. The injury doesn't seem to be affecting him much at the moment and will get better as the season goes on

I think many people would beg to differ. They aren't that far apart even when Cousins is healthy. Right now Vuc would be a better fit here and it's not anywhere close considering Vucevic has no history with team wrecking negativity and getting tossed out of games. Obviously the durability is in his favor as well.

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I understand that Randle is better than Barnes, but the similarity of their games is what scares me in addition to how crowded it could get.

Porzingis is more of a stretch player. A pretty high percentage of his shots are long 2's and 3's

Luka certainly scores from the post but he also shoots 3's, drives to the basket, and scores many other ways

Randle is a bull in the china shop. He just knocks people out of his way and bullies his way to the basket. But also shoots 3's at a rate of 2 per game and hits on a respectable clip of 34%. He also plays with Davis and seems to share the low post pretty effectively

Randle's skill set would be unique with the Mavs and would be very effective on the days when the 3's aren't falling

Underdog · 02-08-2019, 04:37 PM

I actually think Randle would be a good fit with Luka & KP on offense, but that interior defense would be atrocious...

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually think Randle would be a good fit with Luka & KP on offense, but that interior defense would be atrocious...

This

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-08-2019, 05:09 PM

Randle is very much a "we couldn't get a third star" move that many players would fill. I could argue that Kenneth Faried is a much better fit and much cheaper. Lots of those guys could fill in next to KP.

Vuc, however, is at least a borderline star. I mean, I still think it's smart to go after a star regardless of fit.

MFFL · 02-08-2019, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually think Randle would be a good fit with Luka & KP on offense, but that interior defense would be atrocious...

Randle's defense is greatly improved. He's not a rim defender, but Porzingis is

https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/1712...randle-defense

https://medium.com/@ericspyros/the-c...e-27fa9c717b42

turin · 02-08-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yeah, the spacing would be awesome because both KP and Vuce are able to drag the defender out to the perimeter. Vuce shooting 38% from downtown and KP 40% in the season he went down is pretty nuts because both are also strong finisher at the rim. The spacing for Doncic would be insane. Rebounding too....Luka 6-8, KP 7-3, Vuce 7-0, DFS 6-8 (but able to defend guards)

Then you move THJ for sure to the bench and fill the S5 with good/strong roleplayer defender because you dont need more offense

Beverley (40% from downtown the past years)
Doncic
DFS
KP
Vuce

THJ/Kleber/Brunson from the bench. Maybe you sub KP or Vuce early out, so you got the entire game always at least one on the floor. That gives you also plenty minutes with a KP/Kleber or Vuce/Kleber lineup with better defense.

You read my mind. Good stuff. I also agree with you on the Cousins point to take a pass on him. I have always loved his physical talents, but I really don't want to risk him potentially upsetting the chemistry of the Mavs. I think Vuc would be a much, much better fit personality wise.

turin · 02-08-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually think Randle would be a good fit with Luka & KP on offense, but that interior defense would be atrocious...

That would be my concern. If Randle played some really strong D I'd be on board, but I'd prefer some more solid defenders out there to roam if we are going with a base of Vuc, Luka, and Porzingas potentially. DFS and another 3 and D guy who could cover guards would be nice.

sefant77 · 02-08-2019, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Vuc, however, is at least a borderline star. I mean, I still think it's smart to go after a star regardless of fit.

You also wanna keep KPs minutes in the really low 30s...he is no work horse and probably never will be. So there will be plenty of minutes where Vuce has to be the "man" in the frontcourt so KP can rest. Not going after another star big because we got KP isnt an argument.

mac222b · 02-08-2019, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

You also wanna keep KPs minutes in the really low 30s...he is no work horse and probably never will be. So there will be plenty of minutes where Vuce has to be the "man" in the frontcourt so KP can rest. Not going after another star big because we got KP isnt an argument.

I agree with this. Get the BPA within reason that fits. KP should be right around 30 mins per night and give him b2b off too. I’m all for the Spurs model of scheduled rest and maintenance. Also prefer Vuc over Cousins.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-08-2019, 11:19 PM

On top of that, KP is going to most likely be an outside shooter/high post guy much like Dirk. That will open things up for Vucevic down low when they play together. And you can rotate KP early and keep Vuc in to move out himself. The versatile possibilities are endless.

saclare · 02-08-2019, 11:43 PM

I guess my overarching question when discussing this, is why would Orlando want to let him go? The injury to Bamba doesn’t sound very serious, but it would scare me enough to try and keep a guy that has flourished for them. I mean, there’s a reason why most of us want him. IMO they would be smart to move one of Gordon, Isaac, or Bamba for guard or wing to help alleviate some of the redundancy, but Vucevic is clearly the best of the bunch. It does help that it seems Vucevic might want out of that organization and helps he’s an UFA. But if I’m Orlando, I want him long term.

BPo001 · 02-08-2019, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I guess my overarching question when discussing this, is why would Orlando want to let him go? The injury to Bamba doesn’t sound very serious, but it would scare me enough to try and keep a guy that has flourished for them. I mean, there’s a reason why most of us want him. IMO they would be smart to move one of Gordon, Isaac, or Bamba for guard or wing to help alleviate some of the redundancy, but Vucevic is clearly the best of the bunch. It does help that it seems Vucevic might want out of that organization and helps he’s an UFA. But if I’m Orlando, I want him long term.

He’s a UFA, so doesn’t matter what Orlando wants he can go wherever he wants. I think Orlando is moving forward with their youth with the names you mentioned. Add in Fultz and hope he, Bamba, and Isaac can grow together.

nodir41 · 02-09-2019, 09:41 AM

Do you think we can land klay?
We only have enough cap if KP takes the QO right?

MFFL · 02-09-2019, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodir41

Do you think we can land klay?
We only have enough cap if KP takes the QO right?

I would love Klay. He is the best fit of all the free agents IMO. From everything I've read he's either staying at Golden State or going the the Lakers

KP doesn't have to take the QO for us to have cap. BUT the timing has to be right. We have a cap hold on him for $17m (or thereabouts). We can sign him to his big contract but it has to be AFTER we sign a free agent

quietsavant · 02-09-2019, 10:50 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SiriusXMN...33905746038787

saclare · 02-09-2019, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

He’s a UFA, so doesn’t matter what Orlando wants he can go wherever he wants. I think Orlando is moving forward with their youth with the names you mentioned. Add in Fultz and hope he, Bamba, and Isaac can grow together.

Can't they offer an additional year and more money, though, with rights? I'm only saying that since he's clearly the best big they have. But like I said and you said, not necessarily on the same timeline as their other young pieces.

hayth.james.g · 02-09-2019, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

https://mobile.twitter.com/SiriusXMN...33905746038787

Would love to see this catch on once the summer is here. People overhype the rejections we have faced in the past. Luka + KP is a different ball game.