Mavericks vs. Spurs Gameday Thread

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Duncan rarely guards Dirk. Garnett rarely guards Dirk. Duncan rarely guards TD and vice versa.

So yeah, you can count on Dirk to be the leading rebounder, scorer and the guy who guards Duncan but at some point you have to give the guy a break. When you give the guy a rest, the other players on the team have to hold together so that the break isn't cut short after about a minute of play.


With that being said, dirk doesn't get a free pass tonight. He played a mediocre game. Yes, three of hte TO's weren't his fault by any means (the traveling call by the official and the charge call were nothing short of horrendous and then Howard just wasn't paying attention when Dirk almost drilled him in the head with a pass)..but 5 TO's is too many. Plus, he didn't attack the rim enough in the 4th. It's hard to fault him for taking jumpers when he finally did get an open look, but take the ball to the rack if it's there.

Dirk also didn't guard Duncan much tonight. It seemed like he started guarding him more when he got hte 4 fouls which i'm not sure why that happened.

[dude1394]

Nah dirk did cover duncan quite a bit tonight. However dirk should have been able to make plays against the guys covering him.

But we don't push the ball worth a crapola anymore it seems, all one on one.

[sike]

tonight was poop

[bernardos70]

We're almost 1/4 of the way into the season, and the passing is sucking big time. How long are we giving this team till they "gel" and get passing? This isn't and1 basketball, this is the NBA.

[bloodyhell]

We'd be better off with raef lafrentz back in as center. Yep you heared me right. Raef would at least be moving quicker and making some nice passes. We'd be better off going pedal to the metal at this point. Damp had better step it up and our pg's had better learn to CREATE or we're sunk. Personally I think we need to do some trading.

[TVI]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
Could you imagine what this team would be doing if we had kept Nash and developed Harris and our defense? We'd be leading the league. If we had an inside presence and a couple of perimeter defenders to compliment Nash, we'd be going to the finals. As it stands now, we're looking at another 1st round exit.

I think it's really hard to say where Dallas would be with Nash.

If he had stayed with the Mavs, there's no reason to believe that he would be playing at the same level he's playing at right now. In an interview I read, he said he just felt like one of a dozen players in Dallas, but in Phoenix, he's been forced to assume the role of veteran leader on a team full of young players. He's the unquestioned leader of that team, and does not have to defer to anyone. He's free to do exactly what he feels is right, and it's paying off big time.

If he were still with the Mavs, he would definitely be an improvement over any other pg on the team, and I'm sure he'd still be playing really well (like he always did) but in his current situation (especially with Kidd injured) he's the best pg in the league right now, and Phoenix is rolling with him there. I'm not sure he'd have ever reached that level if he had stayed.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: bloodyhell
We'd be better off with raef lafrentz back in as center. Yep you heared me right.

Say it again.

I'm almost sure that you said you wanted back one the man with the lowest basketball IQ in the history of the Mavs. Of course he was moving around - he was always lost. Raef was as sharp as a bag of wet leather.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
If Daniels and Finley are 100% we would truly have a chance, BUT, again, blame Cuban for letting Nash go. What a bone-headed decision. Could you imagine what this team would be doing if we had kept Nash and developed Harris and our defense? We'd be leading the league. If we had an inside presence and a couple of perimeter defenders to compliment Nash, we'd be going to the finals. As it stands now, we're looking at another 1st round exit.

Where are you EL? I thought that we were going to be so much better without Nash?

That's just it. This team wouldn't be better defensively if they had Nash. You can't have both. Either you keep Nash and be a bad defensive team or get rid of Nash and become a better defensive team with poor play at the pg position.

[bloodyhell]

That's how sad dampier is At this point. Wih raf you at least had some hustle and decent passing. I don't think damp is going to step it up.
We're in serious trouble.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Damp is not as bad as you guys are making him out to be. He's been playing poor but that is for his standards. We would've killed last season to have the Damp we have right now and he's not even playing his best. Damp's size alone was a good acquisition this season.

[MavsFanFinley]

Anyone see Finley confront the fan?

DALLAS (AP) -- As much as the San Antonio Spurs love beating the Dallas Mavericks, this pounding was less satisfying than usual.

In defeating their division rivals 107-89 Tuesday night, the Spurs also ruined the pseudo-coaching debut of Avery Johnson, one of the most beloved players in San Antonio history.

Johnson's Mavericks never led, but were close at the start of the fourth quarter until Devin Brown sparked a victory-sealing spurt with two three-point plays and two dunks. He finished with 14 of his season-high 16 points in the period, leaving Johnson sulking as he walked off the court, merely nodding and waving to Gregg Popovich, San Antonio's coach and a good friend.

``I didn't coach against Avery, I just coached my team,'' Popovich said. ``It wasn't about that.''

Johnson, the hand-picked successor of Dallas coach Don Nelson, ran the game as if the job was already his. Nelson was there, too, but offered only suggestions. This was the first of about six such training sessions Nelson hopes to have.

``It felt great, you are just mad that you lost,'' Johnson said. ``It doesn't sit well with me. ... We have a very good basketball team here, but you didn't see that tonight.''

Nelson picked this game to start breaking in Johnson because he played most of his 16 seasons for the Spurs, including starting on their 1999 championship club. This was the Spurs' fourth straight win and the second time in a week that they've easily handled the Mavericks.

``Avery was pretty into the game,'' said Tim Duncan, who had 20 points, 13 rebounds and five blocks. ``He knew what we like to do and I thought he did a real good job.''

Duncan made jumpers on San Antonio's first two possessions and the Spurs were ahead the rest of the way. They were up at least 10 for most of the first three quarters.

Dallas got within 69-65 going into the fourth, but the comeback fizzled quickly. Brown's first layup and free throw restored a nine-point lead, and his second three-point play capped a 10-0 run that made it 88-71 with 7:20 left. When the Mavericks finally scored, Brown answered with a breakaway dunk.

Beno Udrih also had 16 off the bench, while Tony Parker scored 17 and Manu Ginobili added 11 as San Antonio scored its second-most points of the season one game after putting up a season-best 109 against Utah. And after holding the Jazz to 10 points in the first quarter of their last game, the Spurs held the Mavs to 14 in the opening period and 40 at halftime.

Maybe Dallas could've used Johnson running the offense on the floor, not the sideline. The Mavs had a season-worst 22 turnovers and a paltry 10 assists. They also played lousy defense, with all seven of Parker's baskets coming on layups.

``We've played better games,'' Johnson said. ``We got on our heels a little bit and never really could get it in gear.''

Dallas lost for the fourth time in six games. The Mavs are 3-5 since opening the season 7-1 and already have lost three home games after dropping only five all of last season.

Nowitzki had 21 points, 13 rebounds and a team-best four assists. He also had five turnovers, as did Erick Dampier. Josh Howard scored 17, Marquis Daniels had 15 and Jason Terry 10.

``This is probably the toughest loss of the season,'' Terry said. ``They took us out of what we wanted to do. We couldn't get into a rhythm offensively.''

There was even a lack of rhythm courtside, as Johnson opened the game by giving Nelson the main coach's seat on the bench, only to swap spots after three possessions. Old habits die hard, though: Nelson was the first off the bench to argue a questionable foul, and he stayed up longer and yelled louder than Johnson. Nelson also seemed to be biting his lip to keep from talking during the first few timeouts.

Johnson developed a close bond with Nelson and others in Dallas while with the club in 2002 and '03. The Mavs made him an assistant coach during the 2002 playoffs after leaving him off the postseason roster. He signed this summer to be a player-coach but retired in the preseason.

Notes

This was Dallas' third 20-plus turnover game after having the fewest turnovers in the league last season. ... Although Johnson was in charge, the game still counted as Nelson's 864th career loss. ... As Dallas left the court after the game, injured forward Michael Finley confronted a fan who was loudly taunting him. When the fan wouldn't repeat his harshest comment to Finley's face, Mavs owner Mark Cuban calmly got Finley to head back to the locker room.

[LordOfTheMavs]

How did Stack score only 6pts in 35mins????

Where was Bradley????

This loss was not Damps fault.

Harris was out of his league tonight. Not his fault...He's just a rookie.

Good thing Daniels and Howard came to play tonight, or things could have gotten really ugly.

Officiating was deplorable at times.

Spurs are deeper than the Mavs.

Would Finley have helped them tonight??? I'm not sure he would have.

[bloodyhell]

>Damp is not as bad as you guys are making him out to be. He's been playing poor but that is for his standards.

I "KNOW" dampier was better in g.s. but he's just not showing it here! What can we do? Maybe you should ask him to play better. If these are his standards than we made a mistake and need to make some trades soon.

>We would've killed last season to have the Damp we have right now and he's not even playing his best. Damp's size alone was a good acquisition this season.

Possibly but we would have also of had steve nash if we go back to last year. Damp is NOT the only problem by any means. Our pg situation is far worse thus far

I'd take stefanson back too if i could. he's playing in moscow from what i've heard. At least he can create and be fearless.

[bloodyhell]

>Where was Bradley????

Dunno, he should have started imo.

>This loss was not Damps fault.

He is partially to blame imo. But not just his.

>Harris was out of his league tonight. Not his fault...He's just a rookie.

Yes and therefore we need some better players. Cuban or nelsen will need to make some moves.

>Spurs are deeper than the Mavs. Would Finley have helped them tonight??? I'm not sure he would have.

We will need some new faces. Finley won't be enough.

[ddh33]

I expected the passing to take a turn for the worse this season. I think we all did. It's still hard to watch, even though I prepared myself for it.

My big question is when it's going to get better? Is the team going to get more comfortable soon? Is the rook going to step up and start getting the ball to the right people at the right time? Is Terry going to lead a team? Are the Mavs going to get as frustrated watching this as some of us and make a move?

I'll say this. I believe with every 8 assist game this team has, Jason Kidd looks more and more appealing. Mark is paying way too much money to not go all out to win.

[FilthyFinMavs]

As Dallas left the court after the game, injured forward Michael Finley confronted a fan who was loudly taunting him. When the fan wouldn't repeat his harshest comment to Finley's face, Mavs owner Mark Cuban calmly got Finley to head back to the locker room.

Please Dallas don't start this crap. This isn't Detroit.

[bernardos70]

Mavs sucked, officiating sucked, and we played Spurs ball aka the ugly game.

[bloodyhell]

>I'll say this. I believe with every 8 assist game this team has, Jason Kidd looks more and more appealing. Mark is paying way too much money to not go all out to win.

I'll say this, kidd would do wonders in the passing and creating dept. Imagine how many more easy looks and openings our players would get. Yes i'm saying our guards aren't cutting it. No one is taking over and stepping up. Proof that harris just isn't ready and will take at least a year and proof that terry and stack aren't all that. It's simply not enough.

Does anyone think cuban is listening or going to make a move? Place your bets.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I just saw the post game there was some fan saying something to Finley and Finley was calmly talking back to him. Cuban had to turn him around and take him to the locker room. Not sure what the fan said though but if I had to put money on it i'm sure it was something along the lines of "Why are you earning a paycheck for sitting on the bench". It's unfortunate a fan would rather go at a player who didn't partcipate in the mess that occurred tonight.

[dude1394]

Wonder which fan it was. Spurs or mavs. Spurs fans were numerous out there. Barf...

[FINtastic]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

As Dallas left the court after the game, injured forward Michael Finley confronted a fan who was loudly taunting him. When the fan wouldn't repeat his harshest comment to Finley's face, Mavs owner Mark Cuban calmly got Finley to head back to the locker room.

Rumor has it that Stephen Jackson came out of nowhere to assist Finley in confronting more fans.

[MavsFanFinley]

Finley, fan exchange words after loss

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

Michael Finley had a brief postgame confrontation with a fan at American Airlines Center, an incident that involved heated words, but no physical contact.

Finley was accompanying the rest of the Mavericks off the court after the 107-89 loss to San Antonio when a fan yelled something that caught Finley's attention.

Finley stepped back toward the court from the tunnel leading to the locker room and asked the unidentified fan what he said.

The fan said he wanted Finley to "hurry back and get in uniform because we need you."

Finley said: "What did you say after that?"

The fan said: "I said, 'Stop being a wimp.' "

Finley at that point was pulled back toward the tunnel by owner Mark Cuban, Marquis Daniels and security and the situation was over. Mavericks' security personnel questioned the fan.

"It could have been ugly," Daniels said. "Mike's frustrated right now because he wants to help us. And anybody who knows him knows he's a warrior.

"I thought the guy was way out of line."

The incident became an issue in light of the fallout from the brawl in Detroit two weeks ago between the Indiana Pacers and spectators.

Cuban did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment.

[FreshJive]

I saw the Finley thing. It was a big fat dude in a Mavs t-shirt. What a stupid thing to call one of the real iron men of the NBA.

[#41]

Stack just can't be effective with little shots and Harris needs some more years to be ready for the league. Dirk, JHO and Quis just couldn't do it all. Where is last years Damp, he averages like half the rebounds this year...

Who was guarding Ginobili?

, must have done a good job!

[FilthyFinMavs]

LOL, I had a feeling it was something about Fin's injury. Good thing it wasn't anything more severe.

[FreshJive]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

That's just it. This team wouldn't be better defensively if they had Nash. You can't have both. Either you keep Nash and be a bad defensive team or get rid of Nash and become a better defensive team with poor play at the pg position.

The Mavs would still have improved defensively this year by virtue of the improvement of Howard, the consistent playing of a real center vs Walker or Dirk, and having a couple of decent defending pgs off the bench. If you look at the stats Phoenix and Dallas are allowing an almost identical opposing fg% and are near the top of the league. If you'll notice, SA's points walked all over our defense, so our improvement in defense is not entirely due to the loss of Nash, and Phoenix seems to be putting up a decent amount of defense despite Nash.

[Evilmav2]

Unfortunate picture of the night:



The folks over at Spurs-report had a really good chuckle about this 'Dampier Meeting Duncan's Pit' pic from tonight's debacle...

[sike]

Damp was late coming off his man....Unfortunate is right.

[GermanBlitzkrieg]

The world is not ending! Give the team until mid-January. Some good things happened. Down by only 4 going into the 4th. Finley not playing. AND THE REFS OUGHT TO BE FIRED.

Dallas was stymied by the refs during any little comeback. Not that the refs are totally to blame, but they had a HUGE impact.

And, Dirk was underutilized on offense AND acted tentative at times.

Finally, Damp has given us some good games and some bad games. This was a bad game. Guys, they played and looked scared most of the night. The stupid turnovers are proof of this to me. And as I said, the refs did what they could to end ego-building drives.

One game in late November. Too early to judge. And PLEASE, no knee jerk trades.

[bloodyhell]

That's all the fan said? Lame. Finley's a hot head. We have something called freedom of speech in this country. Perhaps if no one likes it, they should leave and move to canada or something or even germany where you don't have it.

Players need to use what's left of their brains.

[dude1394]

There is no freedom of speech when it comes to staying in someone elses store. There is only freedom of speech with respect to government harrassment. I wish cubes would have had the sob thrown out and never allowed to return. Idiot fan.

[MavsFanFinley]

Taken from today's FWST:

Finley flap dismissed

An NBA spokesman said the league has looked into an incident involving Mavs guard Michael Finley and a fan, and has decided to drop the matter.

A fan shouted "stop being a wimp" to Finley after the Mavs' 107-89 home loss to the Spurs on Tuesday. TV cameras caught the incident -- it occurred near one of the American Airlines Center tunnels -- which was brief and was broken up by owner Mark Cuban, Marquis Daniels and security personnel.

The NBA suspended nine players for more than 140 games, including Indiana's Ron Artest for the rest of the season, after players went into the stands to fight with fans near the end of a Nov. 19 game between Detroit and the Pacers.

"We looked into it," NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre said. "There's nothing there."

The Mavs also investigated the incident and discovered that the man is a season-ticket holder.

Finley, who had no physical contact with the fan, has missed the past 11 games with a sprained right ankle.



(Posted by ChicagoJK on the LMF board)

Cuban joking about the Finley thing on ESPN radio. Cuban says he knows the fan and the fan called Cuban last night and apologized. Cuban says the fan is a good guy. He said the fan will apologize to Finley tonight. Said the fan called Finley a wimp and Fin asked the fan what he said and then turned around and left on his own power. Again much ado about nothing.

[sike]

Cuban says he knows the fan and the fan called Cuban last night and apologized.
does every season ticket holder get Cuban's phone number? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[bernardos70]

This has been blown completely out of proportions. We shouldn't even have heard about this.

[sike]

Originally posted by: bernardos70
This has been blown completely out of proportions. We shouldn't even have heard about this.

true. Nothing out the ordinary at all...except for perhaps Finley's reaction...which was still not out of line.

[endtroducing]

ummm...'why is Dampier averaging half the rebounds?' duh. last year he played next to Cliff Robinson...the WORST rebounding forward in the NBA. this year he plays next to Dirk...one of the best rebounding forwards in the NBA. I think virtually everyone knew his rebounding numbers would drop...his defensive presence is what is important.

[DubOverdose]

Originally posted by: sike

true. Nothing out the ordinary at all...except for perhaps Finley's reaction...which was still not out of line.

I don't think his reaction was out of line. Everyone knows Finley will play if he can. He has a huge heart for the game and for the Mavericks and for someone to doubt his comittment to the team is harsh. Finley was voted like one of the top 5 toughest NBA players. If he had resorted to getting in a fight with the player, verbal or physical, it would have been out of line.

[madape]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
ummm...'why is Dampier averaging half the rebounds?' duh. last year he played next to Cliff Robinson...the WORST rebounding forward in the NBA. this year he plays next to Dirk...one of the best rebounding forwards in the NBA. I think virtually everyone knew his rebounding numbers would drop...his defensive presence is what is important.

Which is why everyone should have expected his numbers to drop to about 8 points, 7 boards... which is about what he's averaging now... which is about his career averages... which is why you don't pay him 72 MILLION BUCKS!

[rakesh.s]

dampier needs to be consistent...

it seems like if he can't make a bucket or two he just decides to take the game off

why the hell is he afraid of duncan??? he is supposed to be a force down low...i agree with what bob ortegel said...go up for the jam..if you get blocked you get blocked...don't wuss out..

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: madape

Which is why everyone should have expected his numbers to drop to about 8 points, 7 boards... which is about what he's averaging now... which is about his career averages... which is why you don't pay him 72 MILLION BUCKS!

okay so he's overpaid. So why are you WANTING HIM TO FAIL?