2nd round- Utah Jazz Vs Golden State Warriors - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MFFL · 05-08-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cwebb

Is the only reason Deron Williams played so well today because he's been given such a long leash in his first two years (because the Jazz had no other options), or is he just that much better of a #5 draft pick then Devin Harris? Not dogging Harris at all, just curious about the thoughts of others.

Not to be a heretic or anything but Harris just hasn't improved. He played more minutes this year and his assists to turnover ratio is WORSE than last year. He can't pass very well - he didn't log even ONE double digit assist game this year. His shooting isn't any better - his field goal percentage is warped by the number of layups he has. His rookie year was his best year for 3 point percentage and it was only 33%.

He's just a one trick pony on offense.

chumdawg · 05-08-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

What if Utah doesn't turn the ball over 20 times and Boozer shoots better than 6-15? What if Al Harrington doesn't finally show up for the playoffs?

Each game is is own unique entity so you can't just say "we'll continue to do all the good things, cut down on the bad and we'll win the series? Because Jazz fans could use that same logic.

D2, I think it was pretty clear that the Warriors played just a little less than they can play. I fully expect them to win Game Two. It won't be easy, but it will happen. At the very least, it will be another coin toss.

purplefrog · 05-08-2007, 01:23 AM

I agree the Jazz have no chance in this series. I mean all they have is superior rebounding, above average post play, a pretty good playmaking PG, and a defensive stopper in AK. No doubt they will lose in 5.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Not to be a heretic or anything but Harris just hasn't improved. He played more minutes this year and his assists to turnover ratio is WORSE than last year. He can't pass very well - he didn't log even ONE double digit assist game this year. His shooting isn't any better - his field goal percentage is warped by the number of layups he has. His rookie year was his best year for 3 point percentage and it was only 33%.

He's just a one trick pony on offense.

Agreed. Harris seems to lack overall basketball IQ and court sense, which Deron Williams has in spades. That's something that you kind of have or don't have. Harris won't ever be the player that Williams will be.

And one more thing, Williams was the #3 pick in that draft, not the #5. Raymond Felton was the #5 pick in that draft, and I can see him having a better career than Harris as well.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

D2, I think it was pretty clear that the Warriors played just a little less than they can play. I fully expect them to win Game Two. It won't be easy, but it will happen. At the very least, it will be another coin toss.

Or maybe they played over their heads during the series against us, and they have fallen back to a more realistic level.

dirno2000 · 05-08-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cwebb

Yep, and he even outplayed Baron Davis.

Is the only reason Deron Williams played so well today because he's been given such a long leash in his first two years (because the Jazz had no other options), or is he just that much better of a #5 draft pick then Devin Harris? Not dogging Harris at all, just curious about the thoughts of others.

Williams was a better prospect then Harris so it's no suprise that he's a better player.

I do, however, think he's a much better player then he was last year and the year before. The numbers may not show it but i trust my eyes more.

Now he's developing at a slower pace than most of us would like but I attribute that to the fact they he's never been given the reins to the offense. He's always had to look over his shoulder and sacrifice his game for the greater good.

dirno2000 · 05-08-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

D2, I think it was pretty clear that the Warriors played just a little less than they can play. I fully expect them to win Game Two. It won't be easy, but it will happen. At the very least, it will be another coin toss.

Actually I thought they played pretty well. The only player who was off was Stephen Jackson but he was long overdue.

Also, it's going to be tough to win giving up 18 more rebounds. The shooting will go up and down on both sides but Utah will have that advantage all season.

MFFL · 05-08-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Or maybe they played over their heads during the series against us, and they have fallen back to a more realistic level.

Or maybe Nellie had worked all year on devising a game plan against us. He probably had the team practicing ways to beat us for weeks before the playoffs. Now he has to work up a game plan in a standard fashion.

I think Nellie's championship was beating us - I don't think GS will win more than one game in this series.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:34 AM

I kinda get the feeling that Golden State shot their load against us, kinda like we did against the Kings in 2003. They may give the Jazz a little bit of a scare, but overall I think the Jazz will be able to handle this series.

chumdawg · 05-08-2007, 01:42 AM

If anything, you should take notice of who dictated the pace and style of this game.

What was the score Saturday night, against the Rockets?

The Warriors hold the upper hand in this series. The Jazz will have to win four in a row at home to beat them.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-08-2007, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Williams was a better prospect then Harris so it's no suprise that he's a better player.

I do, however, think he's a much better player then he was last year and the year before. The numbers may not show it but i trust my eyes more.

Now he's developing at a slower pace than most of us would like but I attribute that to the fact they he's never been given the reins to the offense. He's always had to look over his shoulder and sacrifice his game for the greater good.

I feel the same way, I thought Harris has looked a lot better this year, his passing and ball handling seem to have improved, he's taking the jumper more confidently and hitting it more often, and is finishing around the rim better as well (as evidenced by his higher FG%) and is shooting FT's almost 10% better than last year. He has improved, and he's doing it slowly but surely.

chumdawg · 05-08-2007, 01:47 AM

Are you sure Dirno was talking about Harris?

My eye tells me that Harris is completely without the kind of awareness an NBA point guard needs. He's good for iso's, and that's about it.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If anything, you should take notice of who dictated the pace and style of this game.

What was the score Saturday night, against the Rockets?

The Warriors hold the upper hand in this series. The Jazz will have to win four in a row at home to beat them.

Kinda like the when the Spurs played "at the Sun's pace" two years ago in the Western Conference Finals.

And this Golden State home court advantage thing is being blown out of proportion. They have a nice home crowd and all, but they don't turn into the 1972 Lakers at home. Give me a break.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Are you sure Dirno was talking about Harris?

My eye tells me that Harris is completely without the kind of awareness an NBA point guard needs. He's good for iso's, and that's about it.

Dirno has to be talking about Harris or else he got his facts mixed up. Deron has only been in the league two years.

4cwebb · 05-08-2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

And one more thing, Williams was the #3 pick in that draft, not the #5. Raymond Felton was the #5 pick in that draft, and I can see him having a better career than Harris as well.

That's right. My bad.

One thing in Williams' favor from an offensive perspective is that he's been placed into a rigid offensive system, and he has one of the best PG mentors of all time in John Stockton to help him learn the ropes.

chumdawg · 05-08-2007, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Kinda like the when the Spurs played "at the Sun's pace" two years ago in the Western Conference Finals.

And this Golden State home court advantage thing is being blown out of proportion. They have a nice home crowd and all, but they don't turn into the 1972 Lakers at home. Give me a break.

'72 Lakers? Sorry, but that one went over my head.

All I know is that the Dubs win at a VERY high clip at home...including 3-0 against our Mavericks so far this year.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

'72 Lakers? Sorry, but that one went over my head.

Well here's a little NBA History lesson - http://www.nba.com/history/72lakers.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

All I know is that the Dubs win at a VERY high clip at home...including 3-0 against our Mavericks so far this year.

Winning their last 3 games at home makes them automatically invincible at home? Come on chum, you're better than that...

dirno2000 · 05-08-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Are you sure Dirno was talking about Harris?

My eye tells me that Harris is completely without the kind of awareness an NBA point guard needs. He's good for iso's, and that's about it.

The problem is, it's hard to develop your court awarness as a PG when you're playing the two. He's not consistent but I've seen enough to knw it's there.

I firmly believe that if he ever gets his own team to run, he'll be and all star.

cchen39 · 05-08-2007, 01:56 AM

Actually, I think the equalizer for the series will be Deron making Baron work on defense. If you notice, Baron missed couple wide out threes that he killed the Mavs in the 4th quarter. I know its hindsight 20/20 but I think Mavs inability to make Baron work on the both ends of the court ultimately cost them the series.

FINtastic · 05-08-2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The problem is, it's hard to develop your court awarness as a PG when you're playing the two. He's not consistent but I've seen enough to knw it's there.

I firmly believe that if he ever gets his own team to run, he'll be and all star.

I'm kind of on chum's side in this one. I think Harris become a really good player, but I don't really see him becoming an all-star. I'm thinking he'll turn into a 17 and 5 player at his peak. He seems to lack the passing ability that you want out of a point guard, and his lack of a jump shot doesn't help matters either.

chumdawg · 05-08-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The problem is, it's hard to develop your court awarness as a PG when you're playing the two. He's not consistent but I've seen enough to knw it's there.

I firmly believe that if he ever gets his own team to run, he'll be and all star.

Trouble is, I don't want to hope that a four-year starter in the Big Ten (or was it three? hell, I don't know) and a guy with this much experience in the NBA can still somehow develop court sense. Not when I see rookies stepping up and doing it.

Harris has had plenty of opportunities to run the point. Hell, he started in the NBA as a freshman. What I have seen of him is some entirely inexcusable play for a guy who purports to be a point guard.

The kid has extraordinary quickness and can certainly get to the basket. But that is almost entirely it.

dirno2000 · 05-08-2007, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Trouble is, I don't want to hope that a four-year starter in the Big Ten (or was it three? hell, I don't know) and a guy with this much experience in the NBA can still somehow develop court sense. Not when I see rookies stepping up and doing it.

Harris has had plenty of opportunities to run the point. Hell, he started in the NBA as a freshman. What I have seen of him is some entirely inexcusable play for a guy who purports to be a point guard.

The kid has extraordinary quickness and can certainly get to the basket. But that is almost entirely it.

How many rookies do you see playing the point really well? They're few and far between. Deron looked like a bust for most of his rookie season.

At Wisconsin he was a three year starter but he didn't take over the point until his junior year.

Nellie talked glowingly about the kid for most of pre-season then was benched at halftime of his second game. He wasn't given much of an opportunity to work through his mistakes and that’s essential for a young player…especially one still learning the position. By his second season, Terry had established himself as the starter.

Last year Devin was supposed to finally take over the point. Unfortunately, Jet isn't as effective of the ball and if he isn't effective, the team isn't as effective.

Kind of hard to argue about something as abstract as court presence. I'm not saying he's where he should be but I've seen enough to convince me that if given the chance he could refine it and be really good.

That's not to say he'll be Steve Nash but Tony Parker's and all-star too.

Lor20 · 05-08-2007, 03:47 AM

warriors outrebounded by 20 and outshot in FG% and still they only lost by 4 on the road. this will get a tough series for the jazz...

Steve13 · 05-08-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

'72 Lakers? Sorry, but that one went over my head.

All I know is that the Dubs win at a VERY high clip at home...including 3-0 against our Mavericks so far this year.

So do the Jazz. They have not lost at home in the playoffs thus far. Why will it start now? why is GS unbeatable at home and Utah isn't?

Lor20 · 05-08-2007, 05:50 AM

well it was very close in game 1. we will see- lets just watch how the series unfolds

sike · 05-08-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Williams was a better prospect then Harris so it's no suprise that he's a better player.

I do, however, think he's a much better player then he was last year and the year before. The numbers may not show it but i trust my eyes more.

Now he's developing at a slower pace than most of us would like but I attribute that to the fact they he's never been given the reins to the offense. He's always had to look over his shoulder and sacrifice his game for the greater good.

well said. I especially like the comment about trusting our eyes...there is simply no way to NOT see the growth to Harris's game...this was the first season he got his speed under control and he started making passes that actually looked like point guard passes. His shot is so totally frustating...it MUST improve for next season or he will begin to lose some support from me...but overall, I still have hope for something good for DH.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-08-2007, 09:30 AM

The Warriors sold their soul to the devil to beat the Dallas Mavericks, but they should of went ahead and sold their soul to win an NBA Championship, oops.

kg_veteran · 05-08-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

What if Utah doesn't turn the ball over 20 times and Boozer shoots better than 6-15? What if Al Harrington doesn't finally show up for the playoffs?

Each game is is own unique entity so you can't just say "we'll continue to do all the good things, cut down on the bad and we'll win the series? Because Jazz fans could use that same logic.

Exactly. Of course, you are looking at the situation objectively.

I don't know how much we can gather from Game 1, but I do think that the Warriors blew a pretty good chance to win on the road. I don't think they'll have as good of a chance in Game 2.

DubOverdose · 05-08-2007, 09:57 AM

Last nights game was a pretty good ending. I really thought the Warriors had it though.

Five-ofan · 05-08-2007, 09:59 AM

Look i like to consider myself somewhere in the middle of the chum/ape side and the everyone who roots purely for the mavs and forgets all the players/coaches once they are gone side. I think utah is gonna win this series but i want gs to. Honestly as long as one of the 3 western conference teams besides utah wins the title ill be happy. I dont pine for nash or fin or nellie nor do i come close to preferring them winning over the current mavs winning BUT once the mavs are out(as they are now) Id love to see one of those 3 guys win a title. I cant decide which one id most prefer to see win one. First you have nellie. Id LOVE to see him win one but i hate stephen jackson. He just rubs me the wrong way. Plus i know baron davis is going to miss those idiotic shots he takes eventually so it really has no prayer. That leaves you with nash or fin. Love em both. Dont want amare to win one but dont want ginobili to win another one either. That said ill be very happy to see any of those 3 be presented with a trophy. Not even in the same stratosphere of happiness i would have been if I was watching dirk be presented a trophy but happy none the less.

vjz · 05-08-2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some-dude

Harpring is a Warrior killer, has been his whole career. And if the Warriors continue to attack the basket without realizing AK is on the floor, he might average a good 5 blocks for the series. AK is back.

AK was a force. Not only did he get 7 blocks (which is a 14-20 point swing including easy fast-break point at the other end), it put doubts in the mind of the Warrior guards.

DirkGoesNuclear · 05-08-2007, 12:52 PM

Derek Fisher did not suit up for Game 1. Not that he is all world but he is a wily veteran and the Jazz were down a starter on their team.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Utah needed otherworldly performances from a couple of guys, just to eke this one out in the end. This series could still very well go only five games. I think it will go six, but five would not at all shock me.

The Dubs were just a little bit off tonight. Too many turnovers. If they get that straightened out, the Jazz will have to continue to see Okur and Williams play like all-pros in order to push it to seven.

Well, it's not like Boozer had a great game offensively. I'd expect him to shoot around 60% the rest of the series... Plus, the Warriors got a great game from Harrington. I suppose you're counting on that to occur each game. It goes both ways. You look at some of the things that probably won't happen in the Jazz favor most of the time going forward yet you refuse to do the same for the Warriors....

rakesh.s · 05-08-2007, 10:29 PM

i think the warriors steal game 2 and win this one in 6..just like they did against the mavs by stealing game 1

DirkGoesNuclear · 05-09-2007, 08:40 PM

Jazz doing some serious damage in the paint.

The Crippler · 05-09-2007, 08:48 PM

all you got to do to beat the warriors is get tough and take it to the hole over and over and over...

It's too bad the Mavs never got this thru their thick skulls.

some-dude · 05-09-2007, 08:50 PM

Jazz killing them on the boards 23-9.

Flacolaco · 05-09-2007, 08:50 PM

I'm glad to see Utah doing well, I have nothing against them. But this is kind of depressing me a little.

The Crippler · 05-09-2007, 08:53 PM

it's straight-up pissing me off, not depressing me...

rabbitproof · 05-09-2007, 08:55 PM

I hope the Jazz expose and annihilate the Warriors and then get annihilated in the WFC for making this so cake-ish, yes, even at the expense of our rivals Phoenix or SA going to the Finals.