LAD - Life After Deron

[adonis]

Originally Posted by pepe

5/40 for Goran...I take it

Some team will massively overpay for him.

[sike]

So, other than interest in Nash, are there any other rumors or whispers from MBT or reporters close to the action that might give us any hints on what direction they could be heading?

I feel an unforeseen trade not far in the Mavs' future...I just can't see Cuban doing nothing after blowing it up for 2012 Big Time Free Agents so radically failed.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by dirk2003

Tyreke Evans anyone? Can stick him at the 1 or 2 and Kings don't want much for him.

He's a terrible basketball player. In order to be even somewhat remotely effective, he needs to pound the crap out of the ball for like 15 seconds, to see, and get where he wants to be, 2 reasons for that, his below average speed and his bad first step, and obviously, he's a terrible shooter. Not that we would have anything to trade for him, thankfully.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

He's a terrible basketball player. In order to be even somewhat remotely effective, he needs to pound the crap out of the ball for like 15 seconds, to see, and get where he wants to be, 2 reasons for that, his below average speed and his bad first step, and obviously, he's a terrible shooter. Not that we would have anything to trade for him, thankfully.

Agreed. Excellent scouting report.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sike

So, other than interest in Nash, are there any other rumors or whispers from MBT or reporters close to the action that might give us any hints on what direction they could be heading?

I feel an unforeseen trade not far in the Mavs' future...I just can't see Cuban doing nothing after blowing it up for 2012 Big Time Free Agents so radically failed.

I feel a trade is coming too. There are guys like Joe Johnson available for the cost of taking their financial burden. Other teams just have extraneous players (Tyreke Evans, etc) or guys on the block for some reason like Iguodala that may hit the bargain bin as the summer goes on. There are also a few underrated gems out there still that are due for an improved season. Dragic and Asik were unfortunately scouted already. There have to be a couple other gems out there too.

[Songbard]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

gimme this, cubes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qE8KqWgblI

he's worth it

I would love Dragic... seems like a team guy, hard worker, confident, won't disappear at important times, not afraid of taking a big shot.
He scared the crap out of me in some of those Mavs/Rockets games this year. I thought we were going to lose just based on what he would make happen.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I feel a trade is coming too. There are guys like Joe Johnson available for the cost of taking their financial burden. Other teams just have extraneous players (Tyreke Evans, etc) that may hit the bargain bin as the summer goes on.

There are also a few underrated gems out there still that are due for an improved season. Dragic and Asik were unfortunately scouted already. There have to be a couple other gems out there too.

Maybe Gasol? Looking around the league it hard to see many guys that'll be just there for the taking. Joe Johnson's was a special case. Rudy Gay, Iggy? Kevin Martin? Maybe some overpaid 2nd/3rd tier guy will fall from the sky. Unlikely just for cap space though. Aren't there teams that would give real assets for guys like Gay or Iggy?

[He15man]

Well now that I have had a few hours to think about all of it, missing out on Deron sucks but its not the end of the world.

Even with Deron, we weren't going to get past OKC or Miami in the playoffs. Deron is a great player but we're still an old team and we don't have the inside presence.

I hope the Mavs front office makes some moves, but looking at what little the Mavs have to offer in terms of trades and what free agents are out there I'm not getting my hopes up.

Who knows, maybe they find a way to get us Dwight Howard and Steve Nash or Dragic or Lin who knows.

Ill trust Mark Cuban who has made the Mavericks what they are.

You don't like it for Dirk's career, but there's really nothing this franchise could do.

Keeping the championship team in tact might have got them a little further in the playoffs but that team was old.

Cuban will build for the future and he will do what he can to build for the future. Even if Deron had signed with us we weren't going to get by OKC or Miami.

This team is just too old and its time to cut some of the baggage and build for the future.

Unlike the Sacramento Kings, we have an owner who will spend the money to make his team good.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dragic is definitely my top choice for PG, then Nash. No Lin - let someone else overpay for him...

I agree, no Lin.

[grndmstr_c]

Nash, Ray Allen, Camby. Two-year contracts all-around. That's my first choice. I realize it'd be the oldest core lineup in the history of forever, and I don't care. I'd love to see those guys on the floor with Dirk and Shawn closing out games. If you could keep 'em healthy (a decidedly non-trivial if, even accounting for how well 4 of those 5 have held up through most of their careers), I think they'd be special.

The news on Courtney is interesting. Wouldn't mind him if the price wasn't too high.

On the fence on Dragic. I like him. I wouldn't be pissed if the Mavs decided to bid on him. But I can understand their reluctance at his asking price. In addition to the very limited sample size on him as a starter, he's a different sort of player than what the Mavs seem to be looking for at point guard when you consider everyone else that they have confirmed interest in.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I feel a trade is coming too. There are guys like Joe Johnson available for the cost of taking their financial burden. Other teams just have extraneous players (Tyreke Evans, etc) or guys on the block for some reason like Iguodala that may hit the bargain bin as the summer goes on. There are also a few underrated gems out there still that are due for an improved season. Dragic and Asik were unfortunately scouted already. There have to be a couple other gems out there too.

Ilyasova

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'll have to respectfully disagree. You're getting him for what he can give you now and for what he can potentially give you in the future. To me, he's a guy who has been a great change of pace backup and has performed well in opportunities where he's been given more or actually started.

Last year (per 36 mins): 15.9 points, 7.2 assists with 46% shooting from the field. You can look at the stretch he had to finish the year, actual starter minutes with Lowry out and he averaged around 17 points, 7.7 assists with 48% shooting and 37% shooting from range. He saw a nice uptick in PER, as well.

I think he needs work from three-point land, but he's a fearless guy who will attack the basket.

He still needs more grooming, but I'm sold he's worth the money.

I wouldn't say signing Goran Dragic "reeks of desperation", but I still think the enthusiasm for Dragic on here is not looking at his potential to be a fluke a la Charlie Villanueva.

He really could "regress to the mean" after signing a 4/40 contract. We love thinking about guys like Dragic/Ilyasova because it is gamble that could really payoff. We look at Marcin Gortat and see how the gamble works. The downside would be filling up our cap on a middling PG.

Player A 4 Years of PER Player B 4 Years of PER
9.83 --------------------------------16.45
14.87--------------------------------15.82
13.21--------------------------------15.12
18.03--------------------------------18.64
Which is Dragic and which is Villanueva?

I like Dragic and would be excited to have him on the team. However he would take up all our cap unless we amnesty Haywood (which isn't happening unless a Superstar is coming). We'd lose the Odom TPE and our MLE exception. We'd have to fill the rest with minimum contracts. Maybe Kidd comes back for cheap…. maybe not. I think West will stay.

We'd be left with
Dragic Roddy
Carter West Cunningham
Marion FA Crowder
Dirk Wright
Haywood FA James

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Ilyasova

Good power forward with potential to still get better, terrible small forward unfortunately.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Nash, Ray Allen, Camby. Two-year contracts all-around. That's my first choice. I realize it'd be the oldest core lineup in the history of forever, and I don't care. I'd love to see those guys on the floor with Dirk and Shawn closing out games. If you could keep 'em healthy (a decidedly non-trivial if, even accounting for how well 4 of those 5 have held up through most of their careers), I think they'd be special.

The news on Courtney is interesting. Wouldn't mind him if the price wasn't too high.

On the fence on Dragic. I like him. I wouldn't be pissed if the Mavs decided to bid on him. But I can understand their reluctance at his asking price. In addition to the very limited sample size on him as a starter, he's a different sort of player than what the Mavs seem to be looking for at point guard when you consider everyone else that they have confirmed interest in.

This all day. I'd add Roy into the mix. Possibly Kidd as well. Then fill out the rest of the roster with athletes and defenders, which includes our three rookies. You have your veteran rotation guys in Dirk, Nash, Ray, Camby, Kidd, Roy and maybe Marion. West in the middle. Then your youthful half in Wright, Cunningham, Crowder, James, Randolph?, Lee?.

Need the breaks but gelling should be quick, we'd see a smart team go deep down the stretch if it gets the right matchups and the right breaks happen (health). Lots of fun atleast and then a clean reset in 2014. Not sure how our assets align especially for Nash since he is looking at 12 per probably (somehow unload VC/Roddy/DoJo contracts for space to sign him outright?). Camby for TE. Ray for MLE. West and Lee get BAE type contracts. Everybody else gets minimum.

Nash/Kidd/West
Lee/Ray/Cunningham
Matrix/Roy/Crowder
Dirk/Wright/Randolph
Camby/James

[JeffViggiano]

Originally Posted by He15man

Well now that I have had a few hours to think about all of it, missing out on Deron sucks but its not the end of the world.

yes,it is.fuck.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

This all day. I'd add Roy into the mix. Possibly Kidd as well. Then fill out the rest of the roster with athletes and defenders, which includes our three rookies. You have your veteran rotation guys in Dirk, Nash, Ray, Camby, Kidd, Roy and maybe Marion. West in the middle. Then your youthful half in Wright, Cunningham, Crowder, James, Randolph?, Lee?.

Need the breaks but gelling should be quick, we'd see a smart team go deep down the stretch if it gets the right matchups and the right breaks happen (health). Lots of fun atleast and then a clean reset in 2014. Not sure how our assets align especially for Nash since he is looking at 12 per probably (somehow unload VC/Roddy/DoJo contracts for space to sign him outright?). Camby for TE. Ray for MLE. West and Lee get BAE type contracts. Everybody else gets minimum.

Nash/Kidd/West
Lee/Ray/Cunningham
Matrix/Roy/Crowder
Dirk/Wright/Randolph
Camby/James

Our MLE becomes 3mill/year if we go below the cap to sign Nash. I also don't think you get a BAE if you go below the cap. And Lee isn't coming for minimum salary.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Nash, Ray Allen, Camby. Two-year contracts all-around. That's my first choice. I realize it'd be the oldest core lineup in the history of forever, and I don't care. I'd love to see those guys on the floor with Dirk and Shawn closing out games. If you could keep 'em healthy (a decidedly non-trivial if, even accounting for how well 4 of those 5 have held up through most of their careers), I think they'd be special.

The news on Courtney is interesting. Wouldn't mind him if the price wasn't too high.

On the fence on Dragic. I like him. I wouldn't be pissed if the Mavs decided to bid on him. But I can understand their reluctance at his asking price. In addition to the very limited sample size on him as a starter, he's a different sort of player than what the Mavs seem to be looking for at point guard when you consider everyone else that they have confirmed interest in.

We could field the ultimate veteran team, our starting lineup would be almost 200 years old. But then again, Nash is taking excellent care of his body, same with Allen, and Dirk, and Marion doesn't move like most 34 years old so... Why not? It would be a fun ride, even without the championship.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Now imagine this series in full strenght. (with Tyson, JJB, Dsteve and co.) WE HAD a serious chance to be in the finals again. Period.

No. With last year's Dirk, we didn't. That's not even arguable, he started the season out of shape, and was always playing catch up after that. And this would have happened even if we re-sign everybody.

[Murphy3]

Doesn't mean it happens in the playoffs Budapest..

[Skywalker]

guess I could live with that team, but I just cant see why Ray would sign with us

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Doesn't mean it happens in the playoffs Budapest..

Dirk wasn't nowhere near the player he was in last years playoffs. Dirk was a big reason we lost game 1 in this years playoffs with those 3 TO late in the 4th qtr. Game 2 he couldn't connect on his patent faded away or 3 to seal the game. Dirk didn't have his legs at all.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sike

I feel an unforeseen trade not far in the Mavs' future...I just can't see Cuban doing nothing after blowing it up for 2012 Big Time Free Agents so radically failed.

I agree. If you are going to put all your eggs in one basket again for next summer (Paul, Howard)...then LOSE again...that would put the FO in a very, very tough position...again. Not worth the risk unless you think Harden for a max deal as a back-up plan is worth it.

They need to reload and put together a championship team next season. I have faith because there is always a trade that can be made. Question is will they take on the salary?

[AO41]

I also feel like there is a decent size trade or maybe few coming up

[oilfieldtrash]

Sh@t happens. Back on the horse Cuban and Donnie.

[twelli]

Never liked Deron. Don't think the chemistry would have been great between him and Dirk. Think he's very talented but don't like his demeanor. Howard would be more to my liking. He's more like a big kid who needs some guidance. Coming to an organisation like the Mavs would be perfect for him. Dirk, Nash, Howard would be great.

[LonghornDub]

Wonder what the Mavs are doing right now. Waiting on Nash to decide if he wants to go to NY, I suppose.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Doesn't mean it happens in the playoffs Budapest..

He didn't play at that level in the playoffs he showed in the last 4 years, starting against the Hornets in 08 i think? 28-30 points, 60-64 TS%, unstoppable on offense. He did this for 4 straight years, even before we got Chandler, so imo no, he was simply not at that level this spring, regardless of the team outlook.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Wonder what the Mavs are doing right now. Waiting on Nash to decide if he wants to go to NY, I suppose.

You mean Toronto. Their offer destroys anything the Knicks can offer to him, not to mention, the Raps pretty much c**kblocked the Knicks with that ridiculous Fields signing, making it nearly impossible for the Knicks to do a s&t for Nash.

[rabbitproof]

Lin reportedly going to get an Asik-like backloaded 4/30M deal from the Rockets. A little pricy for my taste but Morey is the only GM who got a close up of both Dragic and Lin so I'm guessing it's a solid move.

If Nash goes to NY, we're left with Dragic - whom I can't tell if he's really #3 on the list or if the Mavs are just being coy. Regarding Nash, from the NY Post:

Nevertheless, the source said the Knicks are working on other sign-and-trade scenarios with the Suns, with Nash’s approval. Iman Shumpert may have to replace Fields in a package that also may include Dan Gadzuric’s $1.4 million non-guaranteed contract, Toney Douglas’ expiring pact, Jerome Jordan and Josh Harrellson. Nash could end up making up to $8 million.

So, at 8M, Dallas should definitely be getting in on that unless Steve is willing to sacrifice something to go to NY (this sounds familiar).

[Budapest Maverick]

The Raptors are the heavy favorite, i don't know why you guys keep mentioning New-York...

[rabbitproof]

Boston Globe:

When asked if he will sign with the Celtics, Terry responded “strong possibility” via text message. Terry, who officially can sign a contract July 11, will sign for the full mid-level exception that begins at $5 million per season. The Mavericks, according to the source, offered Terry more money per season to return but only a two-year deal.

---

Does that mean Dallas is not necessarily saving cap for next year but for 2014?

[Budapest Maverick]

Maybe it's because that's when Dirk's contract expires?

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Wonder what the Mavs are doing right now.

THAT is a pertinent question.

I wonder if having Nash does more to help land D12 in Dallas bc of his rep?

*Personally, I can't see Howard going to a non star market (like Dallas).*

Honestly, I don't know if the MBT can do this to their fans again (The "load up for landing a MAX player NEXT off season" maneuver). It just feels like it will have a massive backlash if attempted and failed twice.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Boston Globe:

When asked if he will sign with the Celtics, Terry responded “strong possibility” via text message. Terry, who officially can sign a contract July 11, will sign for the full mid-level exception that begins at $5 million per season. The Mavericks, according to the source, offered Terry more money per season to return but only a two-year deal.

---

Does that mean Dallas is not necessarily saving cap for next year but for 2014?

If I interpret that news correctly then they're willing to try to tool up with some vets for a possibly two-year run spanning the remainder of Dirk's contract. It may yet come down to rolling with one-year guys and saving cap space for next year if they can't get the guys they want to accept two year deals, but I'm glad to see that they're not settling for a rental year just yet. There are still enough quality names on the market to keep multi-season contention in play.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by sike

Honestly, I don't know if the MBT can do this to their fans again (The "load up for landing a MAX player NEXT off season" maneuver). It just feels like it will have a massive backlash if attempted and failed twice.

First of all, forget CP3. He will never ever play for the MAVS and Dirk. Cuban should not even mention his name. And Dwight will choose a team with a great PG. No doubt about it.

Right now Cuban should stop dreaming about MAX players and try to build a solid deep team instead.

[sike]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

So, at 8M, Dallas should definitely be getting in on that unless Steve is willing to sacrifice something to go to NY (this sounds familiar).

New York, LA, Miami....that is where most superstars want to play as long as the money is close.

Dallas is just a great place to raise a family. :/

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If I interpret that news correctly then they're willing to try to tool up with some vets for a possibly two-year run spanning the remainder of Dirk's contract. It may yet come down to rolling with one-year guys and saving cap space for next year if they can't get the guys they want to accept two year deals, but I'm glad to see that they're not settling for a rental year just yet. There are still enough quality names on the market to keep multi-season contention in play.

Exactly. I feel that it is time to start planning for what to do when you're no longer dropping 18mil a season on the Big German. EVERY career has it's arch, and Dirk's has been historically profound, but it is coming to a close in the not too distant future. And at the end of this contract, his max days will be behind him.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

New York, LA, Miami....that is where most superstars want to play as long as the money is close.

Dallas is just a great place to raise a family. :/

Why bother anymore? Why not just put 10 teams in NYC, 10 teams in LA, 1 in Boston and 1 in Chicago and call that your league?

How many Americans lost their jobs (or businesses) over that stupid lockout? Not only did the new CBA change absolutely nothing, but things seem to be getting exponentially worse...

[grndmstr_c]

Well, per Woj sounds like the Knicks are offering 3/27 - 3/30 to Nash, conditional on being able to work out a S&T with the Suns. If NY and Phoenix can find a deal that allows Steve to get 10 per for 3 years I'd say that probably beats anything the Mavs would offer. Dallas might still have a chance at him if the teams can only agree on a deal that limits Nash's pay.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why bother anymore? Why not just put 10 teams in NYC, 10 teams in LA, 1 in Boston and 1 in Chicago and call that your league?

I'd add Miami to that list.

It's funny how the drive to be "cool" seems to never really go away. Those are the "cool" cities...the cities of culture, sex, music, TV, and movies.

And really, I don't blame NBA players.

One could hope that if OKC wins like 4 or 5 rings it might help players see things differently...but then again you've got San Antonio with their 4 rings...and they haven't seemed to impact the ways players think.