To Melo or not to Melo

[yahyes]

Dirk's on board!

[tap2390]

Eh... defense and cohesiveness are the keys to a championship, Melo brings neither. That being said, of course if he's willing to come you have to take him.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

"1-Would you trade Cap space for Chandler or Wright / Elington / James for Chandler with no picks attached ?" What happened to Mekel? Wasn't he in your hypothetical trade? I mean removing a young, high ceiling player from a trade proposal changes things abit.

Mekel is not a high ceiling player. He's roster filler. If he fulfills all of his potential he's a decent backup PG.

"2- Would you trade 2 1st Round picks for Melo?" Sure, but we don't have to. Overpaying for Chandler can't and won't be justifiable just because we have Melo.

With those kinds of assets you mentioned, there will be other options for us. Okafor is going to be MUCH cheaper.. why give away all that for Chandler? I am not one to think that NY is going to try to "stick it to us" just because we get Carmelo. Why would they? Carmelo is going to make his own decision, and I seriously doubt they are going to risk not being able to get something for Chandler just because they are mad they didn't keep Carmelo. Without Carmelo, the Knicks are in full rebuild mode, and Chandler offers very little.

I think you're vastly overstating what kind of offer that is for Chandler. I'm actually not convinced New York wouldn't get more for Chandler. Wright is an ok rotation player. Given his contract he's an asset. But not a huge one. Mekel, Ellington and James are not assets in an any real sense.

The picks are definite assets, but I hardly think Wright plus two picks is a huge overpay for Chandler.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I haven't been on the site in a while, but I see that Carmelo Anthony is still a major topic of discussion. I'm still curious as to why.

I get it that he puts up excellent numbers. I understand that he's probably going to be the most talented player available. Still, does anybody really believe he's the guy that would put this team into title contention? Has he ever played on a legitimate title contender? One would think that, by now, if he were really an elite player, he'd have taken his teams somewhere of substance.

He's an elite scorer and rebounder. He's taken a team to the WCF. He's certainly had attitude issues and questionable motivations at times, but I certainly think he's elite.

Now, the issue is, there are levels of elite. He's not Lebron/KD/Paul. So giving him the mega-max is questionable for building a roster. But Dirk's a good bet to be significantly underpaid for a couple of seasons, so it could balance out.

I think it's moot, because I don't think he's signing here. But I'd be pretty excited if the Mavs somehow signed Carmelo and then turned around and cashed in on Monta's elevated value in a quality trade (Melo and Monta clearly wouldn't fit in my eyes).

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's an elite scorer and rebounder. He's taken a team to the WCF. He's certainly had attitude issues and questionable motivations at times, but I certainly think he's elite.

Now, the issue is, there are levels of elite. He's not Lebron/KD/Paul. So giving him the mega-max is questionable for building a roster. But Dirk's a good bet to be significantly underpaid for a couple of seasons, so it could balance out.

I think it's moot, because I don't think he's signing here. But I'd be pretty excited if the Mavs somehow signed Carmelo and then turned around and cashed in on Monta's elevated value in a quality trade (Melo and Monta clearly wouldn't fit in my eyes).

For sure... if we add another premiere, high-volume scorer I definitely want to try to move Monta for a quality defensive complement to the Dirk/Melo scoring tandem.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's an elite scorer and rebounder. He's taken a team to the WCF. He's certainly had attitude issues and questionable motivations at times, but I certainly think he's elite.

Now, the issue is, there are levels of elite. He's not Lebron/KD/Paul. So giving him the mega-max is questionable for building a roster. But Dirk's a good bet to be significantly underpaid for a couple of seasons, so it could balance out.

I think it's moot, because I don't think he's signing here. But I'd be pretty excited if the Mavs somehow signed Carmelo and then turned around and cashed in on Monta's elevated value in a quality trade (Melo and Monta clearly wouldn't fit in my eyes).

I don't think he's signing here, either. And I'm okay with that. Beyond the points you raise, I think a Dirk/Carmelo forward pair would be pretty rough defensively. Combine that with a Monta/Calderon backcourt? I don't think they'd be able to guard anybody.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's an elite scorer and rebounder. He's taken a team to the WCF. He's certainly had attitude issues and questionable motivations at times, but I certainly think he's elite.

Now, the issue is, there are levels of elite. He's not Lebron/KD/Paul. So giving him the mega-max is questionable for building a roster. But Dirk's a good bet to be significantly underpaid for a couple of seasons, so it could balance out.

I think it's moot, because I don't think he's signing here. But I'd be pretty excited if the Mavs somehow signed Carmelo and then turned around and cashed in on Monta's elevated value in a quality trade (Melo and Monta clearly wouldn't fit in my eyes).

Chris Paul isn't remotely in the same tier as the first two. Other than that small quibble, spot on with everything else.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I haven't been on the site in a while, but I see that Carmelo Anthony is still a major topic of discussion. I'm still curious as to why.

I get it that he puts up excellent numbers. I understand that he's probably going to be the most talented player available. Still, does anybody really believe he's the guy that would put this team into title contention? Has he ever played on a legitimate title contender? One would think that, by now, if he were really an elite player, he'd have taken his teams somewhere of substance.

If you are going to limit your options to guys who have been the best player on a legit contender, That eliminates every "star" in the nba outside of the old guys(dirk, Kobe, Duncan,wade, kg ), the two best guys in the league(Lebron, durant) and guys who have been lucky to be in the east(Dwight).

No one else active has ever been the best player on a legit contender.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

If you are going to limit your options to guys who have been the best player on a legit contender, That eliminates every "star" in the nba outside of the old guys(dirk, Kobe, Duncan,wade, kg ), the two best guys in the league(Lebron, durant) and guys who have been lucky to be in the east(Dwight).

No one else active has ever been the best player on a legit contender.

I didn't say that. I just don't want Carmelo because he would require a max contract and would not be a good fit with the current team.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I didn't say that. I just don't want Carmelo because he would require a max contract and would not be a good fit with the current team.

I respect that opinion, but I disagree. I think he's the most natural fit of any of the non centers with the possible exception of ariza

[LonghornDub]

If Houston can shed Asik/Lin, I'm increasingly convinced that's where Melo will go.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If Houston can shed Asik/Lin, I'm increasingly convinced that's where Melo will go.

And if they can't?

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If Houston can shed Asik/Lin, I'm increasingly convinced that's where Melo will go.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Underdog

And if they can't?

I would think they will if they pursue that avenue this summer... they'll probably have to trade a pick or two in the process, but I would be very surprised if they couldn't move both of those guys. They're still good players.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Agreed.



I would think they will if they pursue that avenue this summer... they'll probably have to trade a pick or two in the process, but I would be very surprised if they couldn't move both of those guys. They're still good players.

I was extremely surprised they didn't pick up the option on Parsons for the reason that his $1 million salary would have been a nice asset to throw in on any deal moving Asik and/or Lin.

They basically bought themselves some time. Knowing they'd have a week to match anything Parsons receives, they'll push hard to get an answer from Melo while they try to move Asik & Lin.

[BPo001]

I think Houston will have a tougher time shipping out Lin and Asik than most people think. I believe they have to take back no salary to be able to offer Melo the max. While I think Melo may view playing with Howard and Harden as his back chance at competing I'm not convinced Melo would play in a "small" market. At least not if Chicago has the means to acquire him.

[BGMaverick9]

To me, Houston and their assets >>>>> Houston without the assets + Melo.

Personally, I don't think it'll be that harder for Houston to find takers. Hell, Golden State and Utah pulled off a terrible deal for Andris Biedrins and Jefferson for picks. Houston does have first-rounders at their disposal, so that can easily facilitate a deal.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

To me, Houston and their assets >>>>> Houston without the assets + Melo.

Personally, I don't think it'll be that harder for Houston to find takers. Hell, Golden State and Utah pulled off a terrible deal for Andris Biedrins and Jefferson for picks. Houston does have first-rounders at their disposal, so that can easily facilitate a deal.

I disagree, I think there's a sentiment around NBA GMs that they don't want to be seen as being "used" by the Rockets, especially in light of all the praise Morey has been receiving.

Houston would only have about $14 million in cap space if they got rid of Asik and Lin. Melo can get a contract starting at about $22 million.

If the Mavs can swoop in quick and sell Melo on the Mavs strong performance in the playoffs + being the face of the franchise (without sharing the limelight like he would in Htown) + getting the full max contract in a st. with no income tax we have a real shot at him.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

To me, Houston and their assets >>>>> Houston without the assets + Melo.

Personally, I don't think it'll be that harder for Houston to find takers. Hell, Golden State and Utah pulled off a terrible deal for Andris Biedrins and Jefferson for picks. Houston does have first-rounders at their disposal, so that can easily facilitate a deal.

Depends what you mean. I think the current roster right now is better than it would be if they lost Asik/Lin/Parsons (depending what minimum-level guys they were able to sign). But if the price for Melo is trading just Lin/Asik, and they're able to re-sign Parsons... they're a lot better. Mostly because Asik plays such a small role on the team as constructed.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's an elite scorer and rebounder. He's taken a team to the WCF. He's certainly had attitude issues and questionable motivations at times, but I certainly think he's elite.

Now, the issue is, there are levels of elite. He's not Lebron/KD/Paul. So giving him the mega-max is questionable for building a roster. But Dirk's a good bet to be significantly underpaid for a couple of seasons, so it could balance out.

I think it's moot, because I don't think he's signing here. But I'd be pretty excited if the Mavs somehow signed Carmelo and then turned around and cashed in on Monta's elevated value in a quality trade (Melo and Monta clearly wouldn't fit in my eyes).

I want to politely disagree that Anthony is anything close to an elite player. Maybe he's a prolific scorer, but to my eye he puts up big numbers by sucking opportunities away from his teammates. He has inflated stats, but he doesn't create opportunity for his teammates, and the teams he has played on are not better because of what he does. They have pretty much been limited to whatever Anthony can shoot them to.

Also, saying that he has taken a team to the WCF as a metric for his bona fides as an 'elite' requires some additional context. In eleven years, Anthony's teams have been knocked out of the playoffs in the first round 8 times, in the second round 1 time, and in the WCF one time. (This last year with the Knicks, they failed to make the playoffs.) I'm willing to give Anthony some slack because of the mess that the Knicks franchise is in, but his overall record is only marginally successful--yeah, getting to the playoffs every year says something, but so does getting knocked out all those times in the first round.

I'm not sure that I would consider him an elite rebounder either. My sense is that with the NYKs Woodson had him playing a lot of minutes as an undersized 4. Anthony feasted offensively against slower 4s, and grabbed some offensive rebounds in the mismatches. But whatever he gained offensively, he and the NYKs sacrificed defensively because he is not a dominant defender or defensive rebounder. (And yeah, I'm willing to cut him slack here too, in that like Harden, he tries to conserve his energy on defense, because the NYKs have been some over-reliant on him for offense.)

Anthony just turned 30, and has had separate shoulder injuries the last two years--left shoulder in 2013, right shoulder in 2014. He has NEVER had elite athleticism, neither a leaper, or a speed guy--doesn't appear to have the genetics for it, and doesn't appear to prioritize improving/maintaining himself physically. Ever since he's been on the NYKs, he has looked right on the verge of being overweight. He has been a very skilled scorer, highly productive as a high-volume shooter, but not a particularly efficient scorer, certainly not the last 3 years with the Knicks. I would be extremely nervous about giving him a max contract, then watching him decline physically over the next 3-4 years, and see his productivity fall off as well.

Overall, he reminds me somewhat of Mark Aguirre--skilled and productive with the ball, but one-dimensional because of average athleticism and his mental approach to the game. Also, like Aguirre when he went to Detroit, I could see Anthony being a valuable contributor on an already-established team, with strong personalities and already-defined leaders. A situation that allows him to be a mono-focused scorer would seem to give him the best shot at success. If you need him to carry a team as a dominant scorer, while creating opportunities for teammates, and holding his own as a defender, you're probably asking too much from him at this point in his career. He's definitely on the downslope of his career, with zero chance of improving his overall game significantly. I'm not even sure I see evidence of him developing aspects of his game that would allow him to be a top contributor as he ages into his 30s. He'll score, or he'll do nothing.

Definitely a bad value on a max contract. I'd rather see the Mavericks start a teardown and a rebuild than take on Anthony.

[hayth.james.g]

@Jack.kerr

I am inclined to agree with you overall, but I would say that you might be under rating Carmelo's skill set. My main question in what you said is the following sentence:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

He has been a very skilled scorer, highly productive as a high-volume shooter, but not a particularly effecient scorer, certainly not he last 3 years with the Knicks.

I guess I am somewhat understudied in the realm of analytics, but last year he shot 45%/40%/85% while averaging 27ppg/8rpg/3assists. This doesn't indicate "chunker" status to me? I don't mean the question rhetorically.. I am simply hoping you can elaborate on the point so that I can better understand your view of his game. Sure, he is a ball stopper of sorts with average passing, but from what I know of his game he IS an elite scorer in this league, not simply a volume shooter.

Like I said.. I am inclined to agree overall. He is a ball stopper of sorts with average defense and investing 20+ mill a year for 5 years or whatever is quite a bill for a guy with such question marks.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I guess I am somewhat understudied in the realm of analytics, but last year he shot 45%/40%/85% while averaging 27ppg/8rpg/3assists. This doesn't indicate "chunker" status to me? I don't mean the question rhetorically.. I am simply hoping you can elaborate on the point so that I can better understand your view of his game. Sure, he is a ball stopper of sorts with average passing, but from what I know of his game he IS an elite scorer in this league, not simply a volume shooter.

First of all, nobody in the league takes more field goal attempts than Melo, which is an important factor when it comes to "volume shooting"... Really, basic stats like FGA vs. FG% can give you a pretty good measure on how much of a ball-stopper a player can be... For comparison, LeBron scored about the same PPG on far less attempts per game:

Carmelo: 27.4 PPG / 9.6-21.3 FGM-A / 45.2 FG%
LeBron: 27.1 PPG / 10.0-17.6 FGM-A / 56.7 FG%

That's the kind of efficiency you want to see from a max-money player... But comparing a guy to LeBron isn't exactly fair, so let's look at someone else with comparable stats:

Carmelo: 27.4 PPG / 9.6-21.3 FGM-A / 45.2 FG%
Harden: 25.4 PPG / 7.5-16.5 FGM-A / 45.6 FG%

Similar PPG, similar FG%, but 5 less shot attempts per game AND he's only making an average of $15m/year... I mean, if you're paying a one-dimensional player like Melo 1/3 of your cap to do nothing but score, then you probably want him to be far more efficient at it.

[EricaLubarsky]

If you are going to compare offensive efficiency, you should use TS%

LeBron 64.8%
Harden: 61.8%
Carmelo 56.1%

Melo's TS% puts him at 17th best among SFs and 101st among all NBA players

Then again, Carmelo has always been the one and only scoring option on the team, and his second scorer last year was JR Smith. Hard to imagine that he wouldn't improve when given a solid 2nd/3rd option and a coach with any knowledge of team basketball.

Also, even with an aging Dirk, Ellis went from 49.3% to 53.2% in a single year. If Melo had the same gains, he'd be almost on par with the best scorers in the league.

Also, the dude is an underrated defender and one of the best rebounders at his position.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If you are going to compare offensive efficiency, you should use TS%

But it's not just about shooting efficiency - it's about taking the ball out of his teammates hands as well. That's why I focused on field goals attempted instead of true shooting percentage (and free throws don't factor into the point I'm trying to make).

Even if Melo shot the ball a little more efficiently, he takes so many damn shots that the entire concept of team play is rendered moot when he's on the floor. Last I checked, max-money/franchise players are supposed to make everyone around them better... Melo does not because he's a ball hog.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

But it's not just about shooting efficiency - it's about taking the ball out of his teammates hands as well. That's why I focused on field goals attempted instead of true shooting percentage (and free throws don't factor into the point I'm trying to make).

Even if Melo shot the ball a little more efficiently, he takes so many damn shots that the entire concept of team play is rendered moot when he's on the floor. Last I checked, max-money/franchise players are supposed to make everyone around them better... Melo does not.

So when it's Dirk on a crappy roster, the roster is bad. When it's Carmelo on a crappy roster, Carmelo just doesn't improve his teammates?

Who else is going to take those shots for the Knicks? You honestly think he'd be happier taking more than 21FGA a game on a mediocre team rather than 14-16 on a playoff team? Who does he have around him that can score? I heard the same argument about Ellis and dozens of others and it simply doesn't work out in reality. FGA is listed under player stats, but it might as well be a measure of the roster.

Carmelo isn't the next Magic Johnson, but he's also a legitimate superstar who does improve those around him and does make his team better. You subtract Carmelo from that roster and they may have been lucky to win 18 games. They are so bad, they signed Lamar Odom to a 2-year deal. Now, Carmelo isn't coming to Dallas and you may be bringing up the "volume scorer" trope just to keep your feelings from being hurt when he goes to Houston, but the whole "volume scorer" argument is and has always been silly. Melo is a top-10 if not top-5 player in the league. FGA is a terrible measure of a player, and "volume scorer" has always been an NBA fan trope without merit.

Value added: Carmelo is 3rd among all players
Wins added: Carmelo is 4th among all players
PER: Carmelo is 9th among all players
Rebound rate: Carmelo is 9th among SFs (and ahead of Marion)

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So when it's Dirk on a crappy roster, the roster is bad. When it's Carmelo on a crappy roster, Carmelo just doesn't improve his teammates?

Who else is going to take those shots for the Knicks? You honestly think he'd be happier taking more than 21FGA a game on a mediocre team rather than 14-16 on a playoff team? Who does he have around him that can score? I heard the same argument about Ellis and dozens of others and it simply doesn't work out in reality. FGA is listed under player stats, but it might as well be a measure of the roster.

Carmelo isn't the next Magic Johnson, but he's also a legitimate superstar who does improve those around him and does make his team better. You subtract Carmelo from that roster and they may have been lucky to win 18 games. They are so bad, they signed Lamar Odom to a 2-year deal. Now, Carmelo isn't coming to Dallas and you may be bringing up the "volume scorer" trope just to keep your feelings from being hurt when he goes to Houston, but the whole "volume scorer" argument is and has always been silly. Melo is a top-10 if not top-5 player in the league. FGA is a terrible measure of a player, and "volume scorer" has always been an NBA fan trope without merit.

Value added: Carmelo is 3rd among all players
Wins added: Carmelo is 4th among all players
PER: Carmelo is 9th among all players
Rebound rate: Carmelo is 9th among SFs (and ahead of Marion)

It should be noted that the "two-year contract" was actually a one-day contract at the end of this season and a team option (to my knowledge, fully unguaranteed if waived before the start of the regular season) for next year.

EDIT: But also, I totally agree that some people are severely underrating Melo's game.

[MavzMan]

Bottom line is if you have a chance at a legit super-star in a league driven by them, you sign him. His (potential) positives on the Mavs team far outweigh the negatives. Gotta roll the dice and let the MBT put a quality team around him and Dirk.

On a side note ... give me a percentage of the chance that Lebron is done with the Heat and 1) would leave Miami and also 2) sign with the Mavs. I'm giving the first a 50/50 shot because I think he's truly about winning championships in order to be labeled as The Greatest. He was the only one on their team that looked pissed that they lost. Everyone else seemed to be like "Oh well, we won two in a row so I'm good."

[sig]

Count me in on Melo. A Melo, Dirk, Ellis trio for a year looks really good to me. Part 2 is Ellis will certainly opt out of his contract next summer if he repeats this past season's performance. I see no reason he won't. It might be easier to see ellis leave the Mavs if Melo is on the team. If the Melo, dirk, Ellis trio has to many faults then replace Ellis with more defense in the backcourt next summer. If dirk wants him then I'm on board even more.

[Murphy3]

I'm fine with bringing in the idiot.. but, I don't think the idiot will sign here.. I also don't think Houston will have much difficulty shedding contracts.

[sig]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I'm fine with bringing in the idiot.. but, I don't think the idiot will sign here.. I also don't think Houston will have much difficulty shedding contracts.

I agree it is a long shot he chooses Dallas. I think he prefers to stay in the East and would deem the Bulls his favorite place to land. I think the bulls will chase Love 1st. Will that hurt his feelings?

I think'd prefer to stay in NY than go to Houston or Dallas unless Phil has already hurt his feelings. THe prospects of players joining him in the summer of 15 in New York city have to be enticing for him especially if Lebron has indicated to him that he'd like to play in NY so he can go to Yankee games on the side.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So when it's Dirk on a crappy roster, the roster is bad. When it's Carmelo on a crappy roster, Carmelo just doesn't improve his teammates?

When Dirk is on a crappy roster, his team goes .500 in the West even though he misses 1/3 of the season. When Carmelo is on a crappy roster, his team can barely muster a 37-45 record in one of the worst Eastern Conferences I've ever seen... Switch those two around and I bet the Knicks make the playoffs this year. Why? Because max-contract/franchise players can will their team into the playoffs season after season, no matter what their squad looks like. A guy like Melo can fill up a stat sheet enough to earn a big payday, but where are the wins?

My argument isn't about whether Carmelo Anthony could contribute here in Dallas - it's about whether he deserves $20m/year on ANY team. He's a really good scorer, but I don't see a guy that you can build a contender around after you dedicate 1/3 of your cap space to him.

[hayth.james.g]

Somewhat of a side point, but who else thinks its absolutely insane that Dallas is a viewed as last on the list for these "superstars". We have a top 5 organization in todays NBA and top 5 coach. Why are players so insistent on playing with other superstars? The 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs just proved that the Heat formula is not a guaranteed recipe for rings, and I would argue the Heat have been the recipient of a extremely favorable conference... not to mention game 6 of last years finals. I also think the Heat could of been upended by the Bulls one of these years if Rose didn't have such bad luck.

Maybe I am crazy, but to me, if I was Carmelo, I wouldn't even consider Houston over the likes of the Bulls or Mavs. To me the clear front runners should be Bulls, Mavs, and a possibly Celtics depending on what they pull off in free agency.

[erdubya]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

They said the same thing about Monta, and Vince too... This system and chemistry is too strong for one player to mess it all up. I think he'd buy into the Carlisle system and get in where he fits in!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Somewhat of a side point, but who else thinks its absolutely insane that Dallas is a viewed as last on the list for these "superstars". We have a top 5 organization in todays NBA and top 5 coach. Why are players so insistent on playing with other superstars? The 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs just proved that the Heat formula is not a guaranteed recipe for rings, and I would argue the Heat have been the recipient of a extremely favorable conference... not to mention game 6 of last years finals.

Does the blame lie on the players or the sports writers? Are all these superstars really clamoring to team up with another superstar, or is it just more fun to write about superteams than boring, defense-first teams like the Spurs?

We've had 3 big-name FA's since LeBron signed with the Heat: Deron Williams, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard... Both Chris Paul and Deron Williams stayed with the team they were already with. You could argue that CP3 was already teamed with a superstar in Griffin, but Deron Williams? There are a hundred million reasons why D-Will stayed in Brooklyn, and Joe Johnson ain't one of them. Only Dwight tried to form a superteam when he joined Harden - but a year after everybody pegged them to make the Finals, Houston is talking about needing yet another superstar in Melo to truly compete.

Of course superstars have always wanted to team up with other superstars, but the overall monetary cost can end up killing a team's balance and depth - two aspects that both Dallas and San Antonio have proven are essential to winning a championship in today's NBA... Sure, you can load up on ring-chasing veterans to fill out your roster, but what happens when Father Time finally catches up to those vets? See the 2013-14 Miami Heat for details.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by erdubya

They said the same thing about Monta, and Vince too... This system and chemistry is too strong for one player to mess it all up. I think he'd buy into the Carlisle system and get in where he fits in!

The difference is that Monta was an $8m risk, whereas Melo is a $20m risk... Also, a max-money/franchise player shouldn't ever need to be "coached-up" in order to justify their paycheck.

[EricaLubarsky]

Underdog, you may be the only person who doesn't think that a top-10 or even top-5 player isn't worth 20m

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by sig

Count me in on Melo. A Melo, Dirk, Ellis trio for a year looks really good to me. Part 2 is Ellis will certainly opt out of his contract next summer if he repeats this past season's performance. I see no reason he won't. It might be easier to see ellis leave the Mavs if Melo is on the team. If the Melo, dirk, Ellis trio has to many faults then replace Ellis with more defense in the backcourt next summer. If dirk wants him then I'm on board even more.

The problem with this idea ...


Say Dirk signs for $9 Million no raises
Melo signs for $21 Million no raises
Harris Room exception

And Wright / Ellington / Mekel + Picks traded for Chandler


And Ellis opts out

Then Dallas will have

Calderon / Harris / Larkin
_______/_______/ Ledo
Melo / Crowder /_______
Dirk/________/ ________
______/_______/________


They also have this years 34th Pick assuming #51 is traded or doesn't make the team maybe stashed overseas.

The Salary for those 8 players comes to $45 Million + 4 Cap holds $1.9 Million = $46.9 Million in Salaries or $16.3 Million in Cap space

So $16.3 Million in Cap space to replace

Ellis
Backup SG
Backup PF
Starting C
Backup C


So if you replace Ellis with the players you suggest only leaves $8-10 Million ( depending on what that player gets ) to replace the other 4 positions .


I think the best route with a Melo signing is

1-Trade for Chandler also with Wright / Ellington / Mekel this year . Then next either re-sign Chandler and Dalembert both with Bird rights or use them in a SNT

2-Sign Harris 2 year Room exception


3-Sign Carter 2 year Vet Min ( maybe just 1 year )

4-Ellis opts out then re-signs with Early Bird rights


The key is we can plan on every year letting go of key players to try to sign another player . We need to add Melo and Chandler and let this team play together the next 2-3 years

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Underdog, you may be the only person who doesn't think that a top-10 or even top-5 player isn't worth 20m

I said the same thing when Melo signed his last $100m contract, and boy did he prove me wrong by winning all those rings!

He might be a top 5-10 player in this league, but he's not a guy who you can build a contender around (and you definitely don't pay a guy 1/3 of your cap unless he can serve as the core of a championship contender).

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I said the same thing when Melo signed his last $100m contract, and boy did he prove me wrong by winning all those rings!

He might be a top 5-10 player in this league, but he's not a guy who you can build a contender around (and you definitely don't pay a guy 1/3 of your cap unless he can serve as the core of a championship contender).

These words make no sense to me.
1) One star isn't going to win you a championship. You need at least 5-6 players and a decent coach. Your (facetious?) claim that him not winning a championship is absurd, because the Knicks are a mess. Their roster was crap, their coaching has been crap, and they don't have leadership that is willing to tell JR Smith (who just recentently threatened on Twitter to shum Melo) to go f@#$ himself.

2) All stars are by their very nature guys you build championship rosters around. Again, not one guy but a roster to complement them.

Melo isn't coming. Melo may not be a guy who fits the kind of culture we have here, but he is most definitely a guy you can build around and for the most part there aren't guys who can't win championship and those who can-- there are only good and bad players with a variety of different personalities and skills who either have a good roster or they don't. Karl Malone ended without a championship, but that wasn't because he's not a championship player, but because his organization never got him the right roster/coach.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

1) One star isn't going to win you a championship.

So I'll stop you right there and ask why you'd be willing to dump 1/3 of your cap space into ONE player (especially on a guy who is clearly a tier below LeBron and Durant)?

Hell, if the Spurs just proved anything, it's that you don't need a $20m "superstar" to win a ring - their highest-paid player was Tony Parker, and he only made $12.5m this season... I'd rather spend $20m on a putting together a winning team than dumping it into Carmelo Anthony's checking account.

[EricaLubarsky]

Spurs are your entire argument?

One team?
One team who haven't won a championship for 7 years before this year? A team who since 2008 have won as many championships as we have?
One team who won in 2007 with three stars? (Duncan, Ginobli, Parker) and before that they also won with three stars as well (Robinson, Duncan, Parker)?
One team who have miraculously been successful despite being known for breaking every rule of GMing?

I love the Spurs and I love how they can draft well (we need to do better, keep a good coach (I hope to keep Carlisle), and sign stars for cheap (something we may never do, because we don't have the prestige), but they are the exception, not the rule.

So my question for you is: if we can't draft like we have an honest-to-god psychic working for us and we can't talk players into signing for half the money they'd get elsewhere, then how DO we improve? That seems to be the real question, because I don't see us turning into the Spurs. If we just offer every free agent 50% of what their people want, we are going to lose out on a LOT of players and our reputation as a winning franchise will be even more buried in the annals of history. "we won back in 2011," probably won't attract many stars to Dallas in 2017 when Dirk is retired and we have Ellis playing pre-Dirk, pre-Nash Finley and we're winning at a .300 pace.