Round 1 - Game 6 game thread - Clippers at Mavs 8:00pm ESPN/Bally

[Jayinem]

Originally Posted by Zeus

He could sign the super max and still force his way out of town if this fucking organization cant make the right draft choice (Saddiq Bey) or free agent acquisition or have a coach in the 4th quarter not call an inexplicable time out right when your team is taking over the 4th quarter and then proceed to ice your team. Of course Luka could leave before a 3rd contract.

You don't sign then demand to leave until there's less than 2 years left on it, otherwise you have no leverage. The Mavs would just say no. The way AD did it is practically the way all of them do it. It is before the 3rd contract, but it's when the 2nd contract is about to expire. Otherwise the team will laugh at you.

There's no reason to consider Luka devious or anything like that if this team isn't a contender in 4-5 years from now, he is justified in wanting to leave. There comes a point where the team fails you.

[Zeus]

If, a big if, if we lose on Sunday and anyone here tries to say it was a successful season you are a moron. Failure to get past the first round going into Luka's 4th season is an organizational failure.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Stylistic

As much as people feel Carlisle needs to go, is it time for Donnie to go as well?

I think we can all agree that trade for Richardson was terrible

They could really use the extra shooter in Curry right now and Richardson's defense has been weak.

The midseason trade for Redick and Melli is also turning out to be a waist of a trade...

This entire offseason was a complete and last offseason was similar...

Donnie couldn't even convince Jae Crowder to come here and that says a lot

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Stotts out in Portland after FOUR 1st round exits in the last FIVE seasons.

Although they’ve done a lot better putting many players around Dame. Can’t have two undersized guards as your best players though.

I’ll take CJ, y’all take KP

Which is funny because RC hasn't got out the 1st round since 2011 and the year prior to the Championship he was bounced out the 1st round to

The year before they won the title that team was a very good team on paper and yet he made some questionable coaching decisions in the playoffs

Imo I just think a new voice sometimes is much better when a coach has been in one place for so long

Doesn't mean the coach isn't good just means players might need to hear a different voice

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Stylistic

As much as people feel Carlisle needs to go, is it time for Donnie to go as well?

Umm no way Carlisle should go, that’s hogwash. Never used that word before
Donnie can go as long as Cuban goes with him?

Give Masai full control and get rid of Donnie? Hell yes! But Smartest man in the room remains? It can only end badly. We’ve needs someone to get Cuban to stand down in the worst way for... forever. Donnie is just happy to be here. He let Cuban overrule him on Giannis to save 250,000 for FA Dwight Howard who never even signed here to draft Shane Larkin.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Umm no way Carlisle should go, that’s hogwash. Never used that word before
Donnie can go as long as Cuban goes with him?

Give Masai full control and get rid of Donnie? Hell yes! But Smartest man in the room remains? It can only end badly. We’ve needs someone to get Cuban to stand down in the worst way for... forever. Donnie is just happy to be here. He let Cuban overrule him on Giannis to save 250,000 for FA Dwight Howard who never even signed here to draft Shane Larkin.

I guess a championship 10 years ago buys you perma-tenure. Nothing to see here.

[Dallas41]

Mavs have lost two home games despite being up after the 1st qtr

They were undefeated in the regular season if that happened

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think we can all agree that trade for Richardson was terrible

They could really use the extra shooter in Curry right now and Richardson's defense has been weak.

The midseason trade for Redick and Melli is also turning out to be a waist of a trade...

This entire offseason was a complete and last offseason was similar...

Donnie couldn't even convince Jae Crowder to come here and that says a lot

Josh Green over Saddiq Bey

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I guess a championship 10 years ago buys you perma-tenure. Nothing to see here.

He’s a great tactical coach. An asset in any playoff series.

And I’m not some blind RC lover. He messed up tonight by not getting BoBi and KP back in. Maxi is doodoo and has been for awhile. He went for a defensive lineup so we could switch and only sent like one double at Kawhi while he got into a hella rhythm. And that lineup on the other end had one and a half(THJ) guys LAC even had to guard. Heck Maxi takes so long to wind up on his shots the closed out easily on his one missed 3 and blocked his shot like 3 times. RC was terrible down the stretch of this game. But he’s still a great coach and has been amazing for most of this series.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Josh Green over Saddiq Bey

Green over Maxey may wind up being the one we rue. Bey? He is what he is. I like that they went for the upside of Green. If Green isn’t playing 20-30 mins per game next season I’d be shocked, shot or no shot. We desperately need the level of athleticism he brings. I think Green in 5 years can be a legit All-Defense kind of guy. His movement skills are elite. At least to my admittedly untrained eye. He just needs to learn positioning, tendencies, get stronger and get reps.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Jayinem

You don't sign then demand to leave until there's less than 2 years left on it, otherwise you have no leverage. The Mavs would just say no. The way AD did it is practically the way all of them do it. It is before the 3rd contract, but it's when the 2nd contract is about to expire. Otherwise the team will laugh at you.

There's no reason to consider Luka devious or anything like that if this team isn't a contender in 4-5 years from now, he is justified in wanting to leave. There comes a point where the team fails you.

Harden forced his way out early in the 20-21 season on a contract that had him locked up through 22-23. So almost 3 seasons early.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Green over Maxey may wind up being the one we rue. Bey? He is what he is. I like that they went for the upside of Green. If Green isn’t playing 20-30 mins per game next season I’d be shocked, shot or no shot. We desperately need the level of athleticism he brings.

Delon didn't work, JRich didn't work, so we might as well try Green for that role next season.
He has the potential to be a much better defender and is much more athletic than both of them.
I think Green could become the perfect guy to put next to Luka if he can contribute even just a little on offense and become the defender that we expect him to be.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think we can all agree that trade for Richardson was terrible

They could really use the extra shooter in Curry right now and Richardson's defense has been weak.

The midseason trade for Redick and Melli is also turning out to be a waist of a trade...

This entire offseason was a complete and last offseason was similar...

Donnie couldn't even convince Jae Crowder to come here and that says a lot

I agree Jae Crowder would’ve helped this team immensely, even though I feel he’s an overrated defender. He would’ve given us one more switchable defender that can space the floor. What was the hangup with Jae again? I feel like we would give him multiple years because of Giannis or am I misremembering? If that was it it’s another example of MBT bungling, as Crowder is easily moveable and is actually exactly the kind of contract you want for trades, as Miami has proven over and over again.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Delon didn't work, JRich didn't work, so we might as well try Green for that role next season.
He has the potential to be a much better defender and is much more athletic than both of them.
I think Green could become the perfect guy to put next to Luka if he can contribute even just a little on offense and become the defender that we expect him to be.

I am the biggest Green— Stan around so I may be biased. I think he even works without the 3 point shot, but that he can develop it. Good ft shooter and good stroke, was good in college from 3, works hard. But like Thybulle with Philly he’ll just be too disruptive to keep off the floor even if he shoots 28% from 3 next season. He’s already a better passer than Brunson, DFS, Maxi, THJ, J-Rich! Like literally today at age 20.

[Zeus]

So let's play what if ladies and gents. What if we lose Sunday? Do we blow up the roster to the greatest extent possible and see if a random assortment of new parts give us a better chance to make it past the first round?

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think we can all agree that trade for Richardson was terrible

They could really use the extra shooter in Curry right now and Richardson's defense has been weak.

The midseason trade for Redick and Melli is also turning out to be a waist of a trade...

This entire offseason was a complete and last offseason was similar...

Donnie couldn't even convince Jae Crowder to come here and that says a lot

How is it Donnie’s fault a player decided to play for another team? Seems like Jae might have made the right decision too seeing as PHX finished second in the West.

I think most at the time (me included) thought the Richardson/Curry swap was a good move at the time. We needed perimeter defenders which is what Richardson was labeled as and he has shown he can score in this league. Turns out he’s a terrible fit for whatever reason.

Reddick and Melli had their moments. Johnson likely wouldn’t be playing much either this series if he was still on the team. He was pretty awful in his own right. We didn’t lose or gain much with that move.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Zeus

So let's play what if ladies and gents. What if we lose Sunday? Do we blow up the roster to the greatest extent possible and see if a random assortment of new parts give us a better chance to make it past the first round?

I think they will trade KP for what they can get at this point. He’s being the good soldier but he’s so marginalized that he’s not even really a part of the offense. He’s outta here.

What I would like to know, which we will never know, is how close we were to trading him to GS or some other team for a lot better than whatever we will likely get this summer. At this point a useable rotation guy and a top 5 first round pick would be a win. We have to make the $ match so a Wiggins or Bertans were always going to be a part of the equation, unless there is some team with cap space that wants him. Not many of those around.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I think they will trade KP for what they can get at this point. He’s being the good soldier but he’s so marginalized that he’s not even really a part of the offense. He’s outta here.

What I would like to know, which we will never know, is how close we were to trading him to GS or some other team for a lot better than whatever we will likely get this summer. At this point a useable rotation guy and a top 5 first round pick would be a win. We have to make the $ match so a Wiggins or Bertans were always going to be a part of the equation, unless there is some team with cap space that wants him. Not many of those around.

He has marginalized himself with inability to become an efficient post player and often lazy on the boards and defense. We also probably shouldn't fall in love with our current stable of roll players. Let THJ walk if they dont win Sunday. I am not a believer in slow incremental improvement each year. You need to change things up to make a step change - see Phoenix and Atlanta.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I think they will trade KP for what they can get at this point. He’s being the good soldier but he’s so marginalized that he’s not even really a part of the offense. He’s outta here.

What I would like to know, which we will never know, is how close we were to trading him to GS or some other team for a lot better than whatever we will likely get this summer. At this point a useable rotation guy and a top 5 first round pick would be a win. We have to make the $ match so a Wiggins or Bertans were always going to be a part of the equation, unless there is some team with cap space that wants him. Not many of those around.

If GSW would do Wiggins and #6 pick for KP the Mavs should consider making that trade.
I think Luka could get something out of Wiggins and he'd probably contribute more than KP is right now.
Then go aggressively after Collins in FA to have a very young core.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

If GSW would do Wiggins and #6 pick for KP the Mavs should consider making that trade.
I think Luka could get something out of Wiggins and he'd probably contribute more than KP is right now.
Then go aggressively after Collins in FA to have a very young core.

Better chance of getting Nurkic. Collins is a big piece of the hawks and they’re moving to the second round.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Better chance of getting Nurkic. Collins is a big piece of the hawks and they’re moving to the second round.

Great point. I am already sick of the Trae fans spinning the narrative that Trae has made it to the 2nd round before Luka.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Better chance of getting Nurkic. Collins is a big piece of the hawks and they’re moving to the second round.

Yeah, you're right about that.
Maybe even Markkanen.
Wonder if GSW and Wiz would consider this 3 way:

GSW trades: Wiggins/Wiseman/top pick in 2021 draft
Receives: KP/Maxi

Wiz trade: Beal/Filler
Receive: Wiseman/Wiggins/Brunson/GSW top 2021 pick/Future Mavs pick

Mavs trade: KP/Maxi/Brunson/Future Pick
Receive: Beal/Filler

Then sign Nurkic and somebody like Batum (MLE or Vet Min)

Luka/Burke/Terry
Beal/Green/Hinton
JRich/Batum/Bey
DFS/Powell/Vet Min or UDFA
Nurkic/WCS/Boban

[Rostick]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

If GSW would do Wiggins and #6 pick for KP the Mavs should consider making that trade.
I think Luka could get something out of Wiggins and he'd probably contribute more than KP is right now.
Then go aggressively after Collins in FA to have a very young core.

Warriors would never ever give up Wiggins for Porzingis even straight up, let alone attach a pick too. Wiggins (who fits great with them btw), for all his faults, is always available to play. They are in win now mode and are not trading that for a guy who might or might not be available when they need him.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Rostick

Warriors would never ever give up Wiggins for Porzingis even straight up, let alone attach a pick too. Wiggins (who fits great with them btw), for all his faults, is always available to play. They are in win now mode and are not trading that for a guy who might or might not be available when they need him.

Hmmm...I heard some rumors around TDL about a possible Wiseman/Wiggins for KP scenario. Heard they were one of a few teams that had great interest in KP and Wiggins was the center piece to match salaries.
Obviously just rumors so you could be right.

[Jayinem]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Harden forced his way out early in the 20-21 season on a contract that had him locked up through 22-23. So almost 3 seasons early.

Just stop Harden is 31 and has signed multiple max contracts. You don't have a point unless you forgot the point of what was original said which I think you did. You're trying too hard, Luka isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He may eventually if we don't win, and that is justified like I keep saying. He's not leaving next year or the next but if you want to have some delusion that he is feel free anyone can have any crazy idea they want to have regardless if it's based in reality or not. Harden is another example of my point that there does eventually come a point a player can force his way out but it's not at TWENTY TWO, TWENTY THREE or TWENTY FOUR anytime they chose like you seem to think. You're not paying attention. Harden went to a different team at that young age but that's because OKC chose not to pay him and traded him not because he forced his way out.

[Dallas41]

I think the mavs doomed themselves in the 4th qtr with some bad lineup decisions

This is do or die so imo Carlisle should have only played KP, Boban and WCS up front

I don't think Kleber and Powell should have seen the floor because those 3 were actually pretty solid especially on defense.

Kleber had no business playing over boban or WCS at that stage of the game and it seemed like KP really sat for awfully long time.

In game 7 as harsh is this might sound I believe you live and die with a 7 man rotation and yes that means luka is going to have be an iron man for one game in terms of minutes because you simply can't trust Brunson right now...

Luka
Kp
Boban
THJ
DFS
WCS
Brunson/Richardson spot minutes for both only to allow quick breathers for the 3 other wing players.

Don't really want to see Powell or kleber at this point I'd rather take my chances seeing if you can get a few more minutes out of Boban as starter with WCS eating up all the backup minutes remaining

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Yeah, you're right about that.
Maybe even Markkanen.
Wonder if GSW and Wiz would consider this 3 way:

GSW trades: Wiggins/Wiseman/top pick in 2021 draft
Receives: KP/Maxi

Wiz trade: Beal/Filler
Receive: Wiseman/Wiggins/Brunson/GSW top 2021 pick/Future Mavs pick

Mavs trade: KP/Maxi/Brunson/Future Pick
Receive: Beal/Filler

Then sign Nurkic and somebody like Batum (MLE or Vet Min)

Luka/Burke/Terry
Beal/Green/Hinton
JRich/Batum/Bey
DFS/Powell/Vet Min or UDFA
Nurkic/WCS/Boban

Portland fans are just as fed up with Nurkic

But seriously I don't think that team is any better especially if your starting Richardson and then moving DFS to the 4

Defensively with Beal you still got tons of defensive lineup issues if you look at that starting lineup you listed

I don't that team wins more than 40-42 games

[turin]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think the mavs doomed themselves in the 4th qtr with some bad lineup decisions

This is do or die so imo Carlisle should have only played KP, Boban and WCS up front

I don't think Kleber and Powell should have seen the floor because those 3 were actually pretty solid especially on defense.

Kleber had no business playing over boban or WCS at that stage of the game and it seemed like KP really sat for awfully long time.

In game 7 as harsh is this might sound I believe you live and die with a 7 man rotation and yes that means luka is going to have be an iron man for one game in terms of minutes because you simply can't trust Brunson right now...

Luka
Kp
Boban
THJ
DFS
WCS
Brunson/Richardson spot minutes for both only to allow quick breathers for the 3 other wing players.

Don't really want to see Powell or kleber at this point I'd rather take my chances seeing if you can get a few more minutes out of Boban as starter with WCS eating up all the backup minutes remaining

Agree

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[Melonhead]

Just overall disappointed. Mavs we’re that close and it took some bad lineup changes to start the fourth and Kawhi going nuclear in a win or go home situation.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Just overall disappointed. Mavs we’re that close and it took some bad lineup changes to start the fourth and Kawhi going nuclear in a win or go home situation.

The postgame show on the Ticket was really critical of RC's timeout when we had just turned the Clippers had just turned the ball over and we had a chance to take the lead after two straight buckets and a couple of stops on the D end. If you recall Luka was really surprised by the timeout and had a look of incredulity for Carlisle. We came out of that timeout with 3 straight empty possessions and the game was over. Outcome based logic perhaps but even at the time it seemed like a weird spot to take the TO.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Jayinem

Just stop Harden is 31 and has signed multiple max contracts. You don't have a point unless you forgot the point of what was original said which I think you did. You're trying too hard, Luka isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He may eventually if we don't win, and that is justified like I keep saying. He's not leaving next year or the next but if you want to have some delusion that he is feel free anyone can have any crazy idea they want to have regardless if it's based in reality or not. Harden is another example of my point that there does eventually come a point a player can force his way out but it's not at TWENTY TWO, TWENTY THREE or TWENTY FOUR anytime they chose like you seem to think. You're not paying attention. Harden went to a different team at that young age but that's because OKC chose not to pay him and traded him not because he forced his way out.

Yes agree there is no way we dont have him for several more years - next year plus the first 3 years of a Supermax but I can see him forcing his way out in age 26 season if the FO can't build around him. I hope he signs the super max. Can you imagine the craziness if he plays wait and see. Can't imagine he would leave that kind of money on the table

[Zeus]

After Luka's 2nd season who would have predicted the Hawks and Suns to be better positioned for a playoff run this season than Luka's Mavs. If you recall many of the prognosticators had the Mavs being a top 3 or 4 team in the west this year. Damn Covid played into the early season poor start but from a team building perspective I am just confused on how Trae's Hawks seem so much better set up around him than Luka's cast of misfit toys. They are also not trying to build in a vacuum. We have no idea what's going to happen around the West in terms of the next Super team popping up. Denver should keep improving with MPJ now coming into his own and Jokic just hitting his prime and I would expect GS to be better next year with Klay back. Phoenix looks strong with their core of young guys plus CP3. Clips will run it back if they progress in the playoffs and Jazz not going anywhere. Portland a big unknown with Dame getting frustrated.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I guess a championship 10 years ago buys you perma-tenure. Nothing to see here.

Yeah, Luka doesn't have any issues at times with the genius that is Carlisle /sarc

Luka wasn't the only one pissed about this.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/...u-dont-need-it

[turin]

Originally Posted by Zeus

The postgame show on the Ticket was really critical of RC's timeout when we had just turned the Clippers had just turned the ball over and we had a chance to take the lead after two straight buckets and a couple of stops on the D end. If you recall Luka was really surprised by the timeout and had a look of incredulity for Carlisle. We came out of that timeout with 3 straight empty possessions and the game was over. Outcome based logic perhaps but even at the time it seemed like a weird spot to take the TO.

I'd have to go back and look at the game, but I also seem to recall this was when RC pulled Boban, and I don't think he played anymore afterwards. RC blew the game right here, and he never gave the team a chance to recover from this blunder because he kept playing a useless Maxi in the 4th qtr instead of looking to close with the Boban-KP duo in a zone down the stretch, but yeah, you let the Mavs play here and keep the momentum rolling and make the Clippers call a timeout. Really effing stupid.

Yes, Boban missed some bunnies earlier in the game, but I have no problem with the Mavs pushing the ball inside to Boban on these attempts. People only bitch because he didn't make them all, but they were solid looks that I'd take all day long. Boban doesn't get cut any slack because of how crucial this game is and thus every single possession. Boban, also has precious little minutes playing in this lineup and especially in these situations, so it's understandable that he may not be as efficient as we'd hope he'd be right out of the gate. Whose fault is that? RC's! There were plenty of times during the regular season when 3-pt chucking midget ball was not working, and this lineup could've gotten some much needed reps together. THAT's one of the biggest unmentioned coaching blunders by RC in the entire season!

Even with the few minutes the starting 5 played together, they held their own in the 1st, had control of the game and a lead, and in the 3rd, this 5 was really starting to string some good plays together right before RC's stupid ass timeout and lineup change.

What a wasted opportunity. :-/

[EricaLubarsky]

D-M.com is toxic AF

We're tied with the higher-seeded Clippers and going to a game seven. We won more playoff games than we did in prior seasons (and more than the "exciting up-and-coming" Knicks) and yet every goddamned post here is trashing on the Mavs, the MBT, or wishing that we lose.

[turin]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

D-M.com is toxic AF

We're tied with the higher-seeded Clippers and going to a game seven. We won more playoff games than we did in prior seasons (and more than the "exciting up-and-coming" Knicks) and yet every goddamned post here is trashing on the Mavs, the MBT, or wishing that we lose.

If pointing out the obvious is toxic to you, then you might want to turn off any media coverage or analysis of the Mavs.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Josh Green over Saddiq Bey

My problem with the draft is not who they drafted but why they drafted them.

They purposely drafted three guys they knew they wouldn't play. Just can't wrap my head around that one.

[FollowedKPtodallas]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

D-M.com is toxic AF

We're tied with the higher-seeded Clippers and going to a game seven. We won more playoff games than we did in prior seasons (and more than the "exciting up-and-coming" Knicks) and yet every goddamned post here is trashing on the Mavs, the MBT, or wishing that we lose.

Lol. Totally agreed....this was ALWAYS gonna be 6 or 7 games!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

D-M.com is toxic AF

We're tied with the higher-seeded Clippers and going to a game seven. We won more playoff games than we did in prior seasons (and more than the "exciting up-and-coming" Knicks) and yet every goddamned post here is trashing on the Mavs, the MBT, or wishing that we lose.

That's why I stopped posting here because this place just became twitter. Unfortunately, there really is no avoiding it anywhere on social media.

I'm fine discussing team/FO flaws as long as it's not the only thing people discuss.

I mean, based on this series, we should have game 7 in the bag.

[Jack.Kerr]

Toxic?

Like a Republican appealing for 'civility'.