05-30-2012, 07:26 PM
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#2441
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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"Basketball reasons"
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05-30-2012, 07:28 PM
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#2442
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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05-30-2012, 07:28 PM
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#2443
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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NetsDaily is hilarious.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-30-2012, 07:30 PM
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#2444
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Golden Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untitled
With my 1000th post, I'd like to welcome Deron Williams to the Mavericks organization.
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LOL
Portland has the 6th/11th pick they could swing for quality veterans on a cap squeezed team. People also forget Deron is friends with Wesley Matthews and was upset when he wasn't resigned in Utah..
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05-30-2012, 07:31 PM
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#2445
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
Nets got the 6th pick, which means they lose it. Portland will pick 11th and 6th. Lol @ Brooklyn.
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Do you think that gives Portland a legit shot at Williams?
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-30-2012, 07:33 PM
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#2446
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_o_r
LOL
Portland has the 6th/11th pick they could swing for quality veterans on a cap squeezed team. People also forget Deron is friends with Wesley Matthews and was upset when he wasn't resigned in Utah..
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I don't think people "forget" that, I think people realize it's pretty irrelevant.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-30-2012, 07:33 PM
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#2447
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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If Deron want to live in Portland and blow his knees
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05-30-2012, 07:39 PM
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#2448
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
not only does that mean they don't have a top pick this year, it also means that if they trade a future first rounder that team won't see any benefit until at least 2014 with all likelihood. Trading a card like Drummond, Davis or Kidd-Gilchrist is very appealing. Its quick and its certain. Trading a pick that won't likely be honored for two seasons in a draft that no one knows anything about is much much worse. Maybe it'll be another 1998 draft, but to a GM its less appealing to wait 2 years for a rebuild, particularly on how unknown it is.
Now Dallas has to turn 17th and 55th pick into something more appealing than New Jersey can with its 57th and Lopez.
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They do have Houston's first rounder in 2013. It's not like they have no trade ammunition at all.
But I don't see how they have enough to get Dwight.
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05-30-2012, 07:40 PM
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#2449
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
They do have Houston's first rounder in 2013. It's not like they have no trade ammunition at all.
But I don't see how they have enough to get Dwight.
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I believe Houston's 2013 pick is lottery protected. Maybe you were accounting for that, though.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-30-2012, 07:48 PM
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#2450
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Golden Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,209
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I wouldn't be shocked if Stern told the new Hornets owner if he buys the team he will give him the #1 pick...I see you Stern
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05-30-2012, 07:57 PM
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#2451
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I believe Houston's 2013 pick is lottery protected. Maybe you were accounting for that, though.
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Yeah, I meant to mentioned that. Top 14 protected through 2016.
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05-30-2012, 08:11 PM
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#2452
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas86
I wouldn't be shocked if Stern told the new Hornets owner if he buys the team he will give him the #1 pick...I see you Stern
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And the ASG
But Hornets had like 15%.
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05-30-2012, 08:13 PM
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#2453
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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I don't believe in the conspiracy theories when it comes to the draft, as bad as the NBA gets is the refs with their obious agendas imo. Hornets had a decent chance of getting number 1 pick either way. I can't wait to hear from nets fans how they trade for dwight with the trade assets they don't have.
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05-30-2012, 08:13 PM
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#2454
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_o_r
LOL
Portland has the 6th/11th pick they could swing for quality veterans on a cap squeezed team. People also forget Deron is friends with Wesley Matthews and was upset when he wasn't resigned in Utah..
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Nope, people just realize it is irrelevant.
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05-30-2012, 08:14 PM
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#2455
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
NetsDaily is hilarious.
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any direct links?
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05-30-2012, 08:15 PM
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#2456
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
any direct links?
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http://www.netsdaily.com/2012/5/30/3...ttery#comments
Just start at the top.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-30-2012, 08:31 PM
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#2457
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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hilarious "Wallace is highly likely to be better than every player in this draft other than Anthony Davis." Rumor is they will resign wallace to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. Even if you take contracts out of it I would rather have Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Thomas Robinson, Andre Drummond, Jarred Sullinger, Damian Lillard, and Jeremy Lamb once you consider rookie contracts compared to what gerald wallace would get there are about 15 players i would rather have.
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05-30-2012, 08:36 PM
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#2458
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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retards still not getting it.
And another huuuuge think for us: King is getting called out everywhere for this trade. deron will read this. And thats the GM he has to trust to build a team that is able to beat the Heat and Bulls the next years...just in the east.
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05-30-2012, 09:50 PM
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#2459
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
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Who's the fat chic?
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-30-2012, 10:00 PM
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#2460
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Who's the fat chic?
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Giggle. Those are pretty high standards!
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05-30-2012, 10:10 PM
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#2461
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: now, here
Posts: 7,720
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She likes him because she has no eyebrows.
Oh, nice lotto ball work, Mavs!
__________________
watch your thoughts, they become your words
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05-30-2012, 10:25 PM
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#2462
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitproof
She likes him because she has no eyebrows.
Oh, nice lotto ball work, Mavs!
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LOL glad I wasn't the only one eyein' them eyebrows thinking what in the f.
__________________
"What Dirk is doing is legendary stuff, this is a joke how good this man is" - JVG
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05-30-2012, 11:23 PM
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#2463
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitproof
She likes him because she has no eyebrows.
Oh, nice lotto ball work, Mavs!
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Lol'd
If a decisive factor in Deron going to Portland is really Wesley Freaking Matthews then oh well. That would make him sort of like the Billy King
of players, decision making wise.
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05-30-2012, 11:25 PM
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#2464
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Giggle. Those are pretty high standards!
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A.Davis' or SMC's??
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05-30-2012, 11:27 PM
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#2465
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
hilarious "Wallace is highly likely to be better than every player in this draft other than Anthony Davis." Rumor is they will resign wallace to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. Even if you take contracts out of it I would rather have Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Thomas Robinson, Andre Drummond, Jarred Sullinger, Damian Lillard, and Jeremy Lamb once you consider rookie contracts compared to what gerald wallace would get there are about 15 players i would rather have.
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Whats most strange is they couldve kept the lottery pick and gone out and overpaid Wallace this summer anyway. #6 pick is one expensive rental for a team not likely to make the playoffs anyhow. Quite baffling.
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05-31-2012, 12:28 AM
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#2466
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Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
None of what you said does anything to disprove Dub's point. He's absolutely unproven, and while he's a good bet to be wildly valuable relative to his contract, his floor is still way, way, WAY, WAY lower than the players you say you would prefer him over.
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I'm saying that despite the indisputable "unproven" term you and LDub can slap on him, he IS more valuable than Bynum at 18mill/year. If the Hornets have enough to cap space and the Lakers offer Bynum straight up for Davis, the Hornets say no.
Would you rather bank on Bynum at nearly 1/3 your cap, or on Davis on a rookie contract? Dwight is a different story. I only said maybe. If I were rebuilding a team with cap space I'd take Davis and then use the rest of the money I'd be spending on Dwight to go towards other players.
"unproven" is just a negative way of saying "rookie" and "young" and "potential".
I actually listened to the BS report after writing this and heard Chad Ford and Bill Simmons saying the same thing I was saying. They were saying that if the Nets won they should keep Davis and build around him. They said that the Nets should say no if they were offered Dwight straight up for only Davis. They also said that the Nets don't think through things enough and they'd probably take Dwight over him, but Ford and Simmons would take Davis and consider it the smart thing.
I know using Ford and Simmons as support for my view is weak, but I'm not alone in thinking Davis on his rookie contract never having played a game is more valuable than almost every player in the NBA(save the top 15 or so). Especially if you're rebuilding. If you only care about THIS year then yes you take Dwight/Bynum.
__________________
"Ager walks up to the stage in a triple-breasted, oversized beige suit, goes to shake hands with Stern and immediately gets whistled for a foul on Dwyane Wade." (Bill Simmons)
Last edited by Scott McGuire; 05-31-2012 at 03:08 AM.
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05-31-2012, 12:40 AM
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#2467
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
Look, you've made clear that you love Anthony Davis, and that's fine, but just like every other player ever who's never played in the NBA, he is totally unproven at the relevant level.
Plenty of fantastic college basketball players--all positions, all varieties--have been absolute busts in the NBA. Would I bet on that from Davis? Certainly not. But until he realizes his potential in the league (and I do think he has tons of potential), he is most certainly "unproven."
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He does possess more than a passing resemblance to
"Never Nervous" Pervis
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05-31-2012, 09:19 AM
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#2468
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott McGuire
I'm saying that despite the indisputable "unproven" term you and LDub can slap on him, he IS more valuable than Bynum at 18mill/year. If the Hornets have enough to cap space and the Lakers offer Bynum straight up for Davis, the Hornets say no.
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The Lakers would also say no. Because you're leaving a variable out of your hypothetical. Where the team is positioned matters, and not just for next season. A team wanting to compete for a championship over the next four seasons is going to take Bynum every single time, imo. And Dwight is an absolute no brainer.
I listened to that Simmons podcast, and it was classic Chad Ford, overrating prospects and talking about them as if they're already proven NBA players. Chad Ford is a worthless analyst who's never added anything to my knowledge of basketball. He's awful.
If the Nets are choosing between Deron/Howard or Deron/Davis, then the answer is CLEARLY Deron/Howard. If they're going to rebuild without Deron then I can maybe see the argument for keeping Davis rather than flipping him for Howard.
You can cite contract efficiency and outplaying your salary all you want (and I'm not saying it's not important, it is) but the most important asset in the NBA is superstars, and there's nothing close to a guarantee that Anthony Davis will be that.
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05-31-2012, 09:43 AM
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#2469
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Giggle. Those are pretty high standards!
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I'd hit it..but I wouldn't date it.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-31-2012, 09:44 AM
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#2470
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-31-2012, 10:22 AM
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#2471
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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money is going to have to be tighter all around. Rookie contracts are going to only be one element of that.
I think teams will be willing to overspend for a year or two until they realize just how much it hamstrings the rest of their teams. The good is that there will eventually be fewer guys with max and near-max contracts that arent absolute superstars.
In the mean time, it will be interesting to see what happens in free agency. I could see us offering a guy like Gordon 10m and having a more desperate team steal him away by offering a max at the last minute. I could also see the Mavericks land a guy at the max and regret it later.
Ultimately the average player has to come down to 4-6m, A few stars should get 7-10m and only the top crust of all-star should get a max deal. There are a lot of guys out there that are paid way more than they should be right now and I think a lot of agents will be looking for the biggest payday for their guys. I can also see a lot of desperate teams making unwise moves that will inflate the cost of this free agency period, despite the new CBA.
I could see a lot of teams with a history of dumb moves offering star contacts like Haywood has to average players and max contracts like Amare's going to players that are only borderline stars.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 05-31-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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05-31-2012, 11:25 AM
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#2472
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott McGuire
"unproven" is just a negative way of saying "rookie" and "young" and "potential".
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It's not "negative," as I'm not implying that he'll fail.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-31-2012, 11:48 AM
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#2473
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Unproven does mean rookie" and "young" and "potential".
It just also means that they aren't a bird in the hand, so to speak. Some will be superstars and hall-of-famers. Many will flame out after their rookie contract.
2007 lottery
1) Greg Oden
2) Kevin durant
3) Al hartford
4) Mike Conley
5) Jeff Green
6) Yi Jianlan
7) Corey Brewer
8) Brandan Wright
9) Jaokim Noah
10) Spencer Hawes
11) Acie Law
12) Thaddeus Young
13) Julian Wright
14) Al Thornton
There are some hall-of-famers in there, a lot of above-average guys, a few that are hanging in the league and a few that are falling out of it. Its not saying there isnt the next Kevin Durant in the 2012 draft, just that its not a sure thing-- yet.
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05-31-2012, 12:09 PM
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#2474
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,661
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ahh. Al Hartford! He's a great.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-31-2012, 12:26 PM
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#2475
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
money is going to have to be tighter all around. Rookie contracts are going to only be one element of that.
I think teams will be willing to overspend for a year or two until they realize just how much it hamstrings the rest of their teams. The good is that there will eventually be fewer guys with max and near-max contracts that arent absolute superstars.
In the mean time, it will be interesting to see what happens in free agency. I could see us offering a guy like Gordon 10m and having a more desperate team steal him away by offering a max at the last minute. I could also see the Mavericks land a guy at the max and regret it later.
Ultimately the average player has to come down to 4-6m, A few stars should get 7-10m and only the top crust of all-star should get a max deal. There are a lot of guys out there that are paid way more than they should be right now and I think a lot of agents will be looking for the biggest payday for their guys. I can also see a lot of desperate teams making unwise moves that will inflate the cost of this free agency period, despite the new CBA.
I could see a lot of teams with a history of dumb moves offering star contacts like Haywood has to average players and max contracts like Amare's going to players that are only borderline stars.
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This is what Cuban has said is the market correction that is coming next summer. Best option is to keep flexibility until 2013, if 3D is not possible now. We still have options with the amnesty, and the 17th pick to rid ourselves of long term deals. Toronto is sitting on 12 million, we make their selection and package it with either Marion or Haywood to clean one contract off the books, then amnesty the other.
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05-31-2012, 01:24 PM
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#2476
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Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
The Lakers would also say no. Because you're leaving a variable out of your hypothetical. Where the team is positioned matters, and not just for next season. A team wanting to compete for a championship over the next four seasons is going to take Bynum every single time, imo. And Dwight is an absolute no brainer.
I listened to that Simmons podcast, and it was classic Chad Ford, overrating prospects and talking about them as if they're already proven NBA players. Chad Ford is a worthless analyst who's never added anything to my knowledge of basketball. He's awful.
If the Nets are choosing between Deron/Howard or Deron/Davis, then the answer is CLEARLY Deron/Howard. If they're going to rebuild without Deron then I can maybe see the argument for keeping Davis rather than flipping him for Howard.
You can cite contract efficiency and outplaying your salary all you want (and I'm not saying it's not important, it is) but the most important asset in the NBA is superstars, and there's nothing close to a guarantee that Anthony Davis will be that.
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You are correct in that superstars are the highest denomination of NBA currency. I don't think Bynum is a superstar. He's not "proven" to be dependable and takes up 1/3 of the cap.
You are saying that every team in the NBA wanting to win a championship in the next 4 years would choose
A) Bynum at $16,473,002 18mill 20mill 22mill
over
B) Davis at $4,286,900 $4,479,800 $4,672,700 $5.8mill
Every GM trying to win a championship in a window of 4 years?
__________________
"Ager walks up to the stage in a triple-breasted, oversized beige suit, goes to shake hands with Stern and immediately gets whistled for a foul on Dwyane Wade." (Bill Simmons)
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05-31-2012, 02:01 PM
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#2477
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott McGuire
You are correct in that superstars are the highest denomination of NBA currency. I don't think Bynum is a superstar. He's not "proven" to be dependable and takes up 1/3 of the cap.
You are saying that every team in the NBA wanting to win a championship in the next 4 years would choose
A) Bynum at $16,473,002 18mill 20mill 22mill
over
B) Davis at $4,286,900 $4,479,800 $4,672,700 $5.8mill
Every GM trying to win a championship in a window of 4 years?
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I think you're a little off on your raise calculations. Max is 7.5%
But to your overall point, I think a GM that needs a center and a cornerstone of a team that must contend over the next four years would choose Bynum over Davis, yes.
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05-31-2012, 02:16 PM
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#2478
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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Bynum's not a superstar and at $16mm/year he's not a bargain. Anthony Davis is the more valuable player at $4 million a year.
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05-31-2012, 02:25 PM
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#2479
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Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
I think you're a little off on your raise calculations. Max is 7.5%
But to your overall point, I think a GM that needs a center and a cornerstone of a team that must contend over the next four years would choose Bynum over Davis, yes.
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Davis is a 4 so I'd pick Bynum if I had an entrenched 4 that didn't have enough bulk to be the man defender at the 5. Davis isn't a center, but he blocks shots like one.
The situation you describe doesn't fit every GM looking to win over the next 4 years. Plus salary cap situations would change the answer if choosing Davis gave you an extra 12million to spend on another player.
I'm asserting that most GMs in the situation they currently are in (some in win-now mode and some in rebuild mode) would pick Davis over Bynum.
Sorry about the 10% raise instead of the 7.5%. I wasn't trying to make it look worse by lying. I looked up Coon's FAQ and you are correct.
Bynum's 4 years should be
16.4 17.7 19.0 20.4
__________________
"Ager walks up to the stage in a triple-breasted, oversized beige suit, goes to shake hands with Stern and immediately gets whistled for a foul on Dwyane Wade." (Bill Simmons)
Last edited by Scott McGuire; 05-31-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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05-31-2012, 02:55 PM
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#2480
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeye
Bynum's not a superstar and at $16mm/year he's not a bargain. Anthony Davis is the more valuable player at $4 million a year.
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Davis is a bargain now, and probably a Laker in 5 years.
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