Official offseason 2013-2014 thread - Page 63 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

The British Texan · 07-25-2013, 01:36 AM

I think Mekel could become a real power sixth man over a short period of time. Calderon may well find himself down the pecking order if that happens; judging by recent opinion, that's a real possibility...?

grndmstr_c · 07-25-2013, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogle

Remember that an empy cap hold of about $490k is only mandatory if you have 12 or fewer players on the roster. In that situation, Ledo's cap hit is minimal ($816k minus $490k = $326k). That is the wrong assumption some people have been making in this thread.

You're counting and/or reasoning wrong.

Ignoring Mekel and Ledo, by my count the Mavs are currently slated to have only 6 players with guaranteed money on the books after this year: JC, Larkin, Ellis, Ellington, Brandan, and Daly. They've also got Jae's contract as a team option (we'll assume that's as good as guaranteed money just to keep things simple), and might have a first-rounder if they don't finish high enough in the standings. They will go into the summer with Bird Rights on VC, Trix and Dirk. However, all those guys are going to make less than their cap holds when they sign their next contract, so if Dallas goes under the cap to sign a big name free agent, they'll have to renounce Bird Rights on those guys anyway. So for all practical intents and purposes when it comes to next summer's free agency, that's at most 8 players/above-min-cap-holds before we get to the two rookies in question. Translation: as of right now, the most probable cap hit associated with the guaranteed money earmarked for Gal and Ledo is not, as you have repeatedly claimed, their full salary amount, but is instead only the amount by which their contracts exceed the minimum cap hold.

j0Shi · 07-25-2013, 06:48 AM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...ern-conference

Quote:

10. Dallas Mavericks (2012-13 finish: 10th)
After two years of patience, Mavericks owner Mark Cuban opened his wallet this summer, paying Jose Calderon, Monta Ellis and Samuel Dalembert a combined $64.5 million. It's not clear that investment made Dallas a better team.

A Calderon-Ellis backcourt presents major defensive issues, and the Mavericks will continue to rely heavily on the aging Dirk Nowitzki. Dallas was a playoff-caliber team after Nowitzki got healthy last season, but again can't afford injury to its star.

Don't know why Pelton ranks the Blazers, Wolves and Nuggets higher than us. It's a close race for 7-8 behind the top 6 but we're definitely not the worst of that pack. Denver at 7 is really confusing, they got considerably worse and in a packed Western Conference the playoffs should be a longshot for them.

Lakers at 12 btw.

j0Shi · 07-25-2013, 06:49 AM

On another note: Has/Will Oden work out for us? So far I've only read Heat/Pelicans/some other team. No mention about Dallas.

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...ern-conference

Don't know why Pelton ranks the Blazers, Wolves and Nuggets higher than us. It's a close race for 7-8 behind the top 6 but we're definitely not the worst of that pack. Denver at 7 is really confusing, they got considerably worse and in a packed Western Conference the playoffs should be a longshot for them.

Lakers at 12 btw.

Healthy Gallinari.

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 07:25 AM

I really like the new direction the mavs are taking regarding young players. Seems they are putting more importance on developing our own and keeping them. I'm sure out of Larkin, Mekel, Ledo one of those is going to pan out and if not they've shown enough promise that another team would take a flyer on them.

He15man · 07-25-2013, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...ern-conference

Don't know why Pelton ranks the Blazers, Wolves and Nuggets higher than us. It's a close race for 7-8 behind the top 6 but we're definitely not the worst of that pack. Denver at 7 is really confusing, they got considerably worse and in a packed Western Conference the playoffs should be a longshot for them.

Lakers at 12 btw.

I think we're in the 6 to 8 range, we got a better team this year on paper, we'll see how they play.

I think these "experts" are under estimating Dirk

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by He15man

I think these "experts" are under estimating Dirk

Same sh!t, different year - except now they say he's "fading" instead of "soft."

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Same sh!t, different year - except now they say he's "fading" instead of "soft."

Most I've heard has been pretty accurate. Not going to be the 2011 guy that can put a team on his back but can be a great 1a or 2 option at the highest level.

LonghornDub · 07-25-2013, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogle

I think if I had said that the Mavs "bet on Ledo" instead of "gambled on Ledo" then maybe some people wouldn't have reacted the way they did. And it would have saved this thread from a lot of unnecessary drama and wasted bandwidth. Which is funny, because the words "bet" and "gamble" mean the same thing.

It's not "drama," bro. We're a pretty nitty bunch around here. We'll drill into semantics, minor details, etc. That's just how it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

In other words, I agree completely with the first thing you said. But not the last thing.

Though for slightly different reasons than chum, I agree with this.

NeedlesKane · 07-25-2013, 10:00 AM

Any idea what kind of deal we should be expecting Bernard James to sign?

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Any idea what kind of deal we should be expecting Bernard James to sign?

1 or 2 years (team option) at league minimum.

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

It's not "drama," bro. We're a pretty nitty bunch around here. We'll drill into semantics, minor details, etc. That's just how it is.

More like "thought police".... and outsiders are never welcome.

dude1394 · 07-25-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If Ledo's contract is a gamble, then what's your definition of a sure-shot?

Rodrique beaubois

dude1394 · 07-25-2013, 11:06 AM

Sounds like a gamble to me, maybe a good one but the point is that most second rounders do not get guaranteed contracts nor do they make the nba.

I don't get the animosity towards what is almost by definition a gamble.

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogle

I think if I had said that the Mavs "bet on Ledo" instead of "gambled on Ledo" then maybe some people wouldn't have reacted the way they did.

I think the easiest way to cut through semantics is to figure out what motivated the Mavs to give Ledo a four year contract in the first place... I mean, if we're talking about the FO taking a "gamble," then drafting Ledo at all qualifies. Although I don't know who would have been a better pick at #43 than a top-3 high school prospect.

I totally understand where you're coming from when it comes to the amount of cap space he'll eat up, but that's only relevant if he fizzles out... If Ledo happens to break out as a rotation player (or better) in the next couple seasons, then locking him up for four years at that price is only going to play in the Mavericks favor... And I can only assume that our coaching staff has seen enough out of him in Summer League and practice to think that he'll outperform his contract in short order.

Is it a gamble? Sure... But it's a low-risk, high-reward gamble.

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

More like "thought police".... and outsiders are never welcome.

Well as long as said outsiders opinion fits the criteria they'll make an exception.
Usually posts like Cuban=Gawd, plan powder=genius, Chandler was over paid, etc.. will earn extra brownie points.

Melonhead · 07-25-2013, 11:07 AM

Any idea when the schedule is released? Ready to plan a trip to see the mavs in LA

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

More like "thought police".... and outsiders are never welcome.

He has a lot of green boxes for an "unwelcome outsider" with only 83 posts.

LonghornDub · 07-25-2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

More like "thought police".... and outsiders are never welcome.

"Thought police" is just an angry term for "I say baseless or unpersuasive things and then get mad when other people don't buy it." Post things that are smart and be ready to substantively back up what you say, and you won't have any reason to worry about it.

The second thing you said is just flatly untrue. Homeboy has a ton of rep already (including a bunch from me) and he's not even posted 100 times. I don't agree with a couple things he's said, but I actually like him and think he's a nice addition to the board. Erica's criticism of him was uncalled for, I thought.

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Rodrique beaubois

(trying to get max-mileage out of this pic!)

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Thought police" is just an angry term for "I say baseless or unpersuasive things and then get mad when other people don't buy it." Post things that are smart and be ready to substantively back up what you say, and you won't have any reason to worry about it.

Discussion forums are not product placement time shares. You aren't trying to "sell" anyone on anything. And you aren't trying to get others to "buy it" as well.

Quote:

The second thing you said is just flatly untrue. Homeboy has a ton of rep already (including a bunch from me) and he's not even posted 100 times. I don't agree with a couple things he's said, but I actually like him and think he's a nice addition to the board. Erica's criticism of him was uncalled for, I thought.

People really care about green boxes next to someone's name?

Quote:

He has a lot of green boxes for an "unwelcome outsider" with only 83 posts.

So does oilfieldtrash and there are a ton of posters that are always hostile to him.

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Discussion forums are not product placement time shares. You aren't trying to "sell" anyone on anything. And you aren't trying to get others to "buy it" as well.

People really care about green boxes next to someone's name?

So does oilfieldtrash and there are a ton of posters that are always hostile to him.

A few posters (thought police crew) consistently give me negative rep so I don't know how I have green boxes.

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

People really care about green boxes next to someone's name?

Probably not, but the fact that he has so many with a low post count means that people certainly don't view him as an "unwanted outsider." Just because folks don't agree with his use of the word "gamble," doesn't mean they're ganging up on him and trying to run him out - which is your assertion.

EricaLubarsky · 07-25-2013, 11:35 AM

edit: not even worth debating

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

A few posters (thought police crew) consistently give me negative rep so I don't know how I have green boxes.

Right, it's all about people being "thought police" and not about you posting stupid shit like "I'm smarter than everybody on this board."

And I find it interesting that everyone who uses terms like "thought police" talks more about the posters on this forum than about basketball...

BGMaverick9 · 07-25-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

edit: not even worth debating

This board is going to get crappy for the next few weeks, isn't it?

As for the schedule question, things are already starting to get leaked. I think it's going to be announced within the next week or two.

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

And I find it interesting that everyone who uses terms like "thought police" talks more about the posters on this forum than about basketball...

As opposed to three pages over the word gamble?

Well let's create some more threads to get back to basketball.

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 11:50 AM

As for the Mavs basketball schedule... I really hope their first game is not nationally televised.

Melonhead · 07-25-2013, 11:52 AM

So apparently Jermaine o Neal was 2 hours away from signing with the mavs before changing his mind and going with the warriors. Source was some warriors tweet when I twitter search "mavs".

Would've been nice to add him. Very well spoken, thoughtful, and articulate player

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 11:54 AM

I'm not sure that O'Neal at this stage is better than Sarge. And with O'Neal's medical history.... I think gambling on Sarge is the better bet.

Melonhead · 07-25-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

As for the schedule question, things are already starting to get leaked. I think it's going to be announced within the next week or two.

Sweet. Thanks

oilfieldtrash · 07-25-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Would've been nice to add him.

No.

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

As opposed to three pages over the word gamble?

I tried to kill that semantic debate earlier on this page (post #2496), but it got buried is the discussion we're having now... My only hope is that moogle sees my post and responds to it, because I think it's probably closer to the discussion he wanted to have than debating the word "gamble."

LonghornDub · 07-25-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Discussion forums are not product placement time shares. You aren't trying to "sell" anyone on anything. And you aren't trying to get others to "buy it" as well.

Sure you are. That's implicitly what you're doing anytime you offer your thoughts on an issue to another person, whether in real life or here.

I mean, sure, you can pretend otherwise--spit that trite line about how you're just "saying you think" and you "don't care" if anybody else accepts it or is moved by it. But everybody knows that's a lie. In fact, the folks who say that are usually the ones who want validation the most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

People really care about green boxes next to someone's name?

"Care"? I don't know what that means in this context. It's evidence against your bald claim that "outsiders are never welcome." I doubt that anybody takes their green boxes to bed every night.

Melonhead · 07-25-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

I'm not sure that O'Neal at this stage is better than Sarge. And with O'Neal's medical history.... I think gambling on Sarge is the better bet.

I just watched a 12 min interview with him and some warriors journalists and he talked about how he went to Germany last year and had the Kobe procedure, and how's he's fully healthy. Changed his whole diet with body cleansing and doing cross fit etc. Just seems like a really humble dude. Said he hated his time in Boston because of his injury and how he let the team down. You may be right though. All this gambling the mavs have been doing lately...

Underdog · 07-25-2013, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

So apparently Jermaine o Neal was 2 hours away from signing with the mavs before changing his mind and going with the warriors. Source was some warriors tweet when I twitter search "mavs".

Would've been nice to add him. Very well spoken, thoughtful, and articulate player

Meh, I'd rather roll with Sarge - the last time O'Neal cracked 70 games in a season was 09-10, and he's never played a full 82 in his 17-year career (also: 17-year career!!)

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 12:06 PM

Quote:

I just watched a 12 min interview with him and some warriors journalists and he talked about how he went to Germany last year and had the Kobe procedure, and how's he's fully healthy. Changed his whole diet with body cleansing and doing cross fit etc. Just seems like a really humble dude. Said he hated his time in Boston because of his injury and how he let the team down. You may be right though. All this gambling the mavs have been doing lately...

Well, the plus side of him coming would be Carlisle pretty much knows what he will get. Albeit in much smaller quantities. I'm hoping they still try and pry Asik or Gortat away this year though.

spreedom · 07-25-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

So apparently Jermaine o Neal was 2 hours away from signing with the mavs before changing his mind and going with the warriors. Source was some warriors tweet when I twitter search "mavs".

Would've been nice to add him. Very well spoken, thoughtful, and articulate player

I think JO is actually a really comparable player to Dalembert. Not as durable as Dally obviously but I think he would have been a great backup. Just as happy to have Sammy here though.

Bayliss · 07-25-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

I think JO is actually a really comparable player to Dalembert. Not as durable as Dally obviously but I think he would have been a great backup. Just as happy to have Sammy here though.

One isn't ever healthy but when he plays... he is steady
The other is one of the most frustrating big men in the game because he has so many highs and lows.

Think I'd rather have the gray hairs because the highs is what the Mavs need with this roster.