Official offseason 2013-2014 thread - Page 66 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-01-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, everyone is so focused on the fact that the Mavs struck out on getting a new Batman that they seem to be blinded to the potential of Ellis being the best Robin that Dirk has ever had...

Well and I also think that in the new age of have stars or don't bother showing up that people now somewhat dismiss depth. We have a ton of depth, especially at the guard position.

grndmstr_c · 08-01-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well and I also think that in the new age of have stars or don't bother showing up that people now somewhat dismiss depth. We have a ton of depth, especially at the guard position.

PG: Calderon + Harris as the likely backup early on provided he's rehabbed + the two rookies
SG: Monta + Ellington/Harris as the primary backups + Jae, VC, and possibly Jose situationally, (Ledo probably in D-league)
SF: Trix/VC/Jae
PF: Dirk + Blair/Trix/Wright and occasionally Jae
C: Daly/Wright at the top of the rotation + Sarge/Blair and perhaps Dirk situationally.

That is a versatile ton of usable depth. Shooters, attackers, passers, finishers, guys that excel with the ball in their hands, guys that play best off the ball, guys that don't make mistakes, guys that can bail an offense out of a broken play, shot-blockers, rebounders, defenders. They're all in there, and they're all worthy of rotation minutes. Rick should have a fun challenge in front of him figuring out how to get the most out of it all.

DTownKidd · 08-01-2013, 04:58 PM

Underdog · 08-01-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

PG: Calderon + Harris as the likely backup early on provided he's rehabbed + the two rookies
SG: Monta + Ellington/Harris as the primary backups + Jae, VC, and possibly Jose situationally, (Ledo probably in D-league)
SF: Trix/VC/Jae
PF: Dirk + Blair/Trix/Wright and occasionally Jae
C: Daly/Wright at the top of the rotation + Sarge/Blair and perhaps Dirk situationally.

That is a versatile ton of usable depth. Shooters, attackers, passers, finishers, guys that excel with the ball in their hands, guys that play best off the ball, guys that don't make mistakes, guys that can bail an offense out of a broken play, shot-blockers, rebounders, defenders. They're all in there, and they're all worthy of rotation minutes. Rick should have a fun challenge in front of him figuring out how to get the most out of it all.

If anybody is up to the challenge, it's Rick Carlisle... This is exactly the kind of team he loves - very reminiscent of 2011's squad, in terms of versatility.

j0Shi · 08-01-2013, 05:23 PM

That chart for Monta is gold, always have to smile about Kirks comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

PF: Dirk + Blair/Trix/Wright and occasionally Jae

I'm really interested how Carlisle handles the PF spot since Wright and Blair both doesn't seem to be a natural fit to the system. Wright lost the backup PF spot to Troy Murphy last year at times and Blair has always played better at C. He has no J whatsoever.

LSMF · 08-01-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

DALLAS MAVERICKS | GRADE: D+

Additions: Monta Ellis (FA), Jose Calderon (FA), Samuel Dalembert (FA), Brandan Wright (re-sign), Shane Larkin (draft), Ricky Ledo (draft), Devin Harris (FA), Wayne Ellington (FA), Gal Mekel (FA), DeJuan Blair (FA), Bernard James (re-sign)

Subtractions: O.J. Mayo (Bucks), Chris Kaman (Lakers), Darren Collison (Clippers), Elton Brand (Hawks), Anthony Morrow (Pelicans), Josh Akognon (Grizzlies), Nick Calathes (Grizzlies)

Two years ago, Mark Cuban made the unorthodox decision to break up a title team so that the Mavs could dip into the free-agent pool a year later and grab a superstar or two.

But Deron Williams and Chris Paul both re-signed with their respective teams, and Dwight Howard chose the Rockets. So instead of giving Dirk Nowitzki a high-priced running mate, two years later, Dallas ended up with Monta Ellis and Jose Calderon.

Best-laid plans, indeed.

Ellis is a high-volume scorer who can be electric getting to the basket, but lacks efficiency, basketball IQ or a well-rounded game. Like Ellis, Calderon's best days are behind him, and while he understands the game well, his ability to get by anyone or guard anyone has waned significantly. That the Mavs spent $54 million on these two speaks to how desperate they are to be relevant again.

Dalembert was their third big score, and frankly, he may be their best. The 32-year-old is still a force on the defensive end, and two years for $7.4 million was a bargain contract for a big man. The team also re-signed a key reserve in Wright, who shockingly didn't get bigger offers despite being 25 years old and coming off a season in which he had a player efficiency rating (PER) of 21.

Mekel is an NBA-ready prospect who intrigued several teams after a terrific season in Israel. Larkin is a great athlete who can really shoot the basketball (though his lack of size is a question mark). And Ledo has as much raw basketball talent as anyone they acquired, but he will need to make significant improvements in the maturity department if he's going to stick in the league; the Mavs should go find out what the Pacers did with Lance Stephenson and replicate it.

Despite the flurry of deals, the Mavs should have significant cap space next summer assuming Nowitzki is willing to take a big pay cut on his next deal. Perhaps fortunes will turn in 12 months, and the Mavs will land the free-agent stud they've been looking for. If not, this is what they are left with.

PER ESPN

I don't even know where to start with this one...this is such a crock of BS. The team got Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon, Devin Harris, Wayne Ellington, Sammy Dalembert, Re-signed Brandan Wright, Got two good rookies in Ricky Ledo and Shane Larkin, added a bruiser in Dejuan Blair and brought back Bernard James. To top it all off we have a healthy Dirk, and I'm sure he's motivated because we haven't had any success in the postseason since 2011. And after all of this we still got a D+...I know this guy's opinion doesn't mean anything, but it's just annoying how this organization gets no respect no matter what we do. Screw whatever anyone says, we had an excellent offseason. Respect to Cubes and the rest of the FO. I hope all the new guys are ready to work hard because this is a team that is always slept on and hated on for no reason. Man, I hope this Mavs team can come together this season...

LSMF · 08-01-2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

PG: Calderon + Harris as the likely backup early on provided he's rehabbed + the two rookies
SG: Monta + Ellington/Harris as the primary backups + Jae, VC, and possibly Jose situationally, (Ledo probably in D-league)
SF: Trix/VC/Jae
PF: Dirk + Blair/Trix/Wright and occasionally Jae
C: Daly/Wright at the top of the rotation + Sarge/Blair and perhaps Dirk situationally.

That is a versatile ton of usable depth. Shooters, attackers, passers, finishers, guys that excel with the ball in their hands, guys that play best off the ball, guys that don't make mistakes, guys that can bail an offense out of a broken play, shot-blockers, rebounders, defenders. They're all in there, and they're all worthy of rotation minutes. Rick should have a fun challenge in front of him figuring out how to get the most out of it all.

Well said, Grandmaster.

purplefrog · 08-01-2013, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

PG: Calderon + Harris as the likely backup early on provided he's rehabbed + the two rookies
SG: Monta + Ellington/Harris as the primary backups + Jae, VC, and possibly Jose situationally, (Ledo probably in D-league)
SF: Trix/VC/Jae
PF: Dirk + Blair/Trix/Wright and occasionally Jae
C: Daly/Wright at the top of the rotation + Sarge/Blair and perhaps Dirk situationally.

That is a versatile ton of usable depth. Shooters, attackers, passers, finishers, guys that excel with the ball in their hands, guys that play best off the ball, guys that don't make mistakes, guys that can bail an offense out of a broken play, shot-blockers, rebounders, defenders. They're all in there, and they're all worthy of rotation minutes. Rick should have a fun challenge in front of him figuring out how to get the most out of it all.

I agree 100%. I guess critics will argue there is no elite talent beyond Dirk and that you need at least two superstars to compete in the playoffs. However, I look at last years Spurs team and ask "How many elite superstars?" Parker and Duncan? Hmmmm.. Maybe..

j0Shi · 08-01-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I agree 100%. I guess critics will argue there is no elite talent beyond Dirk and that you need at least two superstars to compete in the playoffs. However, I look at last years Spurs team and ask "How many elite superstars?" Parker and Duncan? Hmmmm.. Maybe..

Ginobili is no longer a star, but Leonard replaced him. So their big three is still intact, sort of.

j0Shi · 08-01-2013, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

I don't even know where to start with this one...this is such a crock of BS. The team got Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon, Devin Harris, Wayne Ellington, Sammy Dalembert, Re-signed Brandan Wright, Got two good rookies in Ricky Ledo and Shane Larkin, added a bruiser in Dejuan Blair and brought back Bernard James. To top it all off we have a healthy Dirk, and I'm sure he's motivated because we haven't had any success in the postseason since 2011. And after all of this we still got a D+...I know this guy's opinion doesn't mean anything, but it's just annoying how this organization gets no respect no matter what we do. Screw whatever anyone says, we had an excellent offseason. Respect to Cubes and the rest of the FO. I hope all the new guys are ready to work hard because this is a team that is always slept on and hated on for no reason. Man, I hope this Mavs team can come together this season...

Well if you goal was to get a big free agent the last two years, then a D+ would seem reasonable. But we should rather compare this years team to last years and then a D+ is harsh - to say the least - bc we got better. I mean we can talk playoffs again!

Quote:

That the Mavs spent $54 million on these two (Monta+Calderon) speaks to how desperate they are to be relevant again.

On the other hand let's not fool ourselves, bc this is very much true.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-01-2013, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

And one costs less than half as much as the other.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-01-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

On the other hand let's not fool ourselves, bc this is very much true.

Isn't every team not in the Wiggins sweepstakes hoping to be relevant? Calderon made 10 mil last season and is making 6.7 mil to start this one. Ellis made 13 mil last season and is making 8 to start this one. All in how you choose to look at things.

spreedom · 08-01-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

That the Mavs spent $54 million on these two (Monta+Calderon) speaks to how desperate they are to be relevant again.

If by "desperate to be relevant again" you mean "They signed the best available FAs at the PG and SG," then I agree.

Underdog · 08-01-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

If by "desperate to be relevant again" you mean "They signed the best available FAs at the PG and SG," then I agree.

Yeah, I like how they make it sound like $54m over three years for two NBA starters is a lot of money...

marc9211 · 08-02-2013, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I like how they make it sound like $54m over three years for two NBA starters is a lot of money...

Exactly I'll take that kind of money for two starters in the NBA you add that with Dirk's cut salary, easily could sign any free agent next year. You look at the 2014 free agents and most of them the mavs would be interested in are either SF and C's anyways (at least the good ones of interest). They took the best two options they had at PG and SG and signed them. Monta Ellis fired his agent because he new the inevitable pay cut he was going to take when he didn't accept the bucks contract so obviously we got a good deal there and Calderon's deal isn't bad at all. The ESPN grade for the Mavericks is normal since they always hate them. Point being we are filled at the guard positions and PF postition just begging for a huge SF or C free agent pickup. I like it.

j0Shi · 08-02-2013, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

If by "desperate to be relevant again" you mean "They signed the best available FAs at the PG and SG," then I agree.

The Mavs don't agree with you: They went for Iggy then Harris for SG duties and only because it all fell apart (Iggy signed with GSW, Harris injured) they chose Ellis. "Best available SG" doesn't quite match a plan C.

Not much gripe about Calderon, his contract is fair for now, but odds are he'll decline rather fast at some point. He was never worth 10M+, Jennings and Teague both got 8M per this offseason.

spreedom · 08-02-2013, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

The Mavs don't agree with you: They went for Iggy then Harris for SG duties and only because it all fell apart (Iggy signed with GSW, Harris injured) they chose Ellis. "Best available SG" doesn't quite match a plan C.

Not much gripe about Calderon, his contract is fair for now, but odds are he'll decline rather fast at some point. He was never worth 10M+, Jennings and Teague both got 8M per this offseason.

For one thing, Iguodala is a SF. He played out of position last year because Denver had like 8 SFs on the roster. Offensively, he doesn't at all fit as a shooting guard.

For another, we signed Harris to be a backup, even when he was signed before Ellis. Just because he was signed first doesn't mean we preferred him to Ellis. It just means that we didn't get into the Ellis race until his price dropped. I'm not a fan of his game either but he was the best option on the market this summer for $8M per, unless you would have preferred to bring OJ back.

grndmstr_c · 08-02-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And one costs less than half as much as the other.

And the less expensive one has the higher cereer ts%, higher career pp36, higher career assist%, and lower career to%.

Underdog · 08-02-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And the less expensive one has the higher cereer ts%, higher career pp36, higher career assist%, and lower career to%.

But the only way to truly measure a Dallas Mavericks player on a Dallas Mavericks forum is to harp on their flaws and ignore their strengths... That way you can flex your muscles and talk about how "right" you are when we don't win a ring (because hating on your team is what being sports fan is all about - if you don't agree, then you're a cock sucking homer!)

I have stronger feelings on this issue if you're interested...

DGM · 08-02-2013, 11:12 AM

hoopshype is reporting that mavs are having ongoing discussions with mike james. say it ain't so, please say it ain't so.

Kante · 08-02-2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

hoopshype is reporting that mavs are having ongoing discussions with mike james. say it ain't so, please say it ain't so.

Awesome!

mac222b · 08-02-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

hoopshype is reporting that mavs are having ongoing discussions with mike james. say it ain't so, please say it ain't so.

Not mention of what the discussions are about though. Maybe they're having ongoing discussions about the final 8 episodes of Breaking Bad

j0Shi · 08-02-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But the only way to truly measure a Dallas Mavericks player on a Dallas Mavericks forum is to harp on their flaws and ignore their strengths... That way you can flex your muscles and talk about how "right" you are when we don't win a ring (because hating on your team is what being sports fan is all about - if you don't agree, then you're a cock sucking homer!)

I have stronger feelings on this issue if you're interested...

Ellis has a whole season to show me what stupid mofo I am. And if he does, I'll accept every Nelson there is. Monta is just the kind of player I cannot root for in advance and I truly envy others for their optimism. Kinda like Mike James last year.

j0Shi · 08-02-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And one costs less than half as much as the other.

For that matter: Thank god we didn't end up with Smith... I'd take Monta over him every time. Theoretically a much better fit next to Dirk by. a. mile.

oilfieldtrash · 08-02-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

hoopshype is reporting that mavs are having ongoing discussions with mike james. say it ain't so, please say it ain't so.

No chance unless they're looking to have him in a mentor role for the summer league or something like that. Tbh he was the most consistent guard the mavs had last year. And yes Mike James is a sub par nba player but if he was to go play hoops at the local YMCA he'd look like prime Jordan out there.

Underdog · 08-02-2013, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

hoopshype is reporting that mavs are having ongoing discussions with mike james. say it ain't so, please say it ain't so.

It ain't so... He expects to play for an NBA team, but not necessarily Dallas.

Sounds like we talked to him at the beginning of free agency (covering our bases), but we have 15 players under contract and plenty of more talented guards than Mike James. I'm guessing he was probably a fallback to Harris, but there's no room for him on this roster at this point.

And I have no idea where the "ongoing" part of that report comes from, unless he's having non-contract discussions with the Mavs FO... I dunno, maybe they like him enough to try to help him land somewhere else? It's not like we can use him in a sign and trade...

grndmstr_c · 08-02-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Monta is just the kind of player I cannot root for in advance...

We moved past the in-advance stage when he put pen to paper and signed the contract that made him Dirk's teammate.

Underdog · 08-02-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Ellis has a whole season to show me what stupid mofo I am. And if he does, I'll accept every Nelson there is. Monta is just the kind of player I cannot root for in advance and I truly envy others for their optimism. Kinda like Mike James last year.

Well, we went 16-7 with Mike James as our starter, so the odds of Ellis exceeding your expectations are pretty good... I think the fact that he's never played for a coach like Rick Carlisle -- or with a star like Dirk and a PG like Calderon -- is plenty of reason for optimism. No reason to think he can't elevate his game in this situation, especially since he's not going to be relied upon to be our leading scorer. That, alone, should help increase his efficiency.

grndmstr_c · 08-02-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It ain't so... He expects to play for an NBA team, but not necessarily Dallas.

Sounds like we talked to him at the beginning of free agency (covering our bases), but we have 15 players under contract and plenty of more talented guards than Mike James. I'm guessing he was probably a fallback to Harris, but there's no room for him on this roster at this point.

And I have no idea where the "ongoing" part of that report comes from, unless he's having non-contract discussions with the Mavs FO... I dunno, maybe they like him enough to try to help him land somewhere else? It's not like we can use him in a sign and trade...

My mind went to four possibilities: 1) outdated reporting, 2) agent bs, 3) backup PG insurance in the event of a trade, or 4) non-guaranteed deal to bring him in for training camp. My money's on the last of the four, given that as of right now the team only has two healthy point guards, and Mike knows the system and has the trust of the coaching staff.

Underdog · 08-02-2013, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

My mind went to four possibilities: 1) outdated reporting, 2) agent bs, 3) backup PG insurance in the event of a trade, or 4) non-guaranteed deal to bring him in for training camp. My money's on the last of the four, given that as of right now the team only has two healthy point guards, and Mike knows the system and has the trust of the coaching staff.

Training camp fodder is the only thing that makes sense... Although I do think he could have value on an NBA roster - just not ours.

Melonhead · 08-02-2013, 12:44 PM

Stein tweeted mavs are interested in Amundson...

oilfieldtrash · 08-02-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Stein tweeted mavs are interested in Amundson...

We're low on our white guy quota.

yahyes · 08-02-2013, 02:28 PM

Did someone say white guy! Cole Aldrich is better than Amundson.

spreedom · 08-02-2013, 02:38 PM

Absolutely. I wish we had the roster space to add Aldrich.

Dirk's Knee · 08-02-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Absolutely. I wish we had the roster space to add Aldrich.

The FO choose Blair over him. Seeing as he's still out there, likely going to go for the min if anyone picks him up.

Rick41 · 08-02-2013, 03:33 PM

We can have up to 20 contracts coming into camp but have to trim it by the beginning of the season to 15 which is what we have now.

Are all of the contracts we have right now guaranteed? Yes right?

spreedom · 08-02-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

We can have up to 20 contracts coming into camp but have to trim it by the beginning of the season to 15 which is what we have now.

Are all of the contracts we have right now guaranteed? Yes right?

We haven't been told otherwise on any of our recent 1-year guys, so I'd assume that they are.

Rick41 · 08-02-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

We haven't been told otherwise on any of our recent 1-year guys, so I'd assume that they are.

So assuming they are guaranteed, why bring in more bodies to camp (Amundson, Carmichael) if everyone is guaranteed?

Trades?

Dirk's Knee · 08-02-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

So assuming they are guaranteed, why bring in more bodies to camp (Amundson, Carmichael) if everyone is guaranteed?

Trades?

At this point, the only reason Dallas would bring more guys into camp is in order to have more realistic scrimmages in which you can try out different rotations/substitutions. You can't trade a player you sign until Dec 15th, which means they'd have to make the roster. Anyone signed at this point for guaranteed money guarantees someone will be waived prior to the start of the season. Only exception is "Make Good" contracts intended just for camp. Honestly, I'd look at the roster as set at this point. Remember, Cuban has been on record stating almost everything you hear about the Mavs are lies as they are tight lipped about everything. Look at the Ellis, Ellington, Harris, and Blair signings. Absolutely nobody saw them coming.

BGMaverick9 · 08-02-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

So assuming they are guaranteed, why bring in more bodies to camp (Amundson, Carmichael) if everyone is guaranteed?

Trades?

Because it's common?