T-Pups at Mavs Game Day Thread - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LoveMyMavs14 · 11-30-2003, 04:33 PM

Not that injuries are an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help. Some things to remember when looking at our record that doesn't appear to be too hot...

Looking back at road losses:

@LA Lakers-Did anyone expect us to win this game? The team had been together for ONE WEEK. The Lakers wanted to show off. Our team was in disarray. I say erase this from memory.
@Washington-Nash goes out, a team that is still learning to play together loses their floor general.
@Toronto-Nash out for his first full game for almost three seasons. Team has been together about two weeks.
@Memphis-Nothing to be ashamed about with this game, tough overtime loss--Dallas could have won if it wasn't for a couple of calls that went the Grizz's way (again, not claiming bias or conspiracy, that's just how it happened).
@Phoenix-Dirk goes out, the team self-destructs. A lot of the blame lies with the team just not playing well, but as the year goes on they will become better equipped to handle when a player goes out.
@Denver-Another close game, missing our all-star forward and best player on the team, lose to a team that has been nearly impossible at home.

IMO, the record looks much worse than it actually is.

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav
Nice win. It exemplifies two trends I've noticed so far this season; one good, one bad.

The good trend is that unlike last season, we seem to be saving our best performances for our rivals. So far have wins over Minnesota, Portland, and Houston, plus two wins over the Spurs. The only loss to a big rival was the opening night loss to the Lakers. This is really important because it gives us the tie-breakers, plus it keeps the records of our rivals down. Even though we don't have a great record right now, the fact that we're giving up losses to teams like the Raptors, and keeping the Spurs and Rockets records down, has kept us on top of the Midwest standings.

The bad trend is that we can only seem to win at home. I think just two years ago we were the best road team in the league. What happened? I hope it is only a case of new personnell still trying to fit it and getting flustered on the road, but that excuse is starting to wear thin, especially when we've all seen how the new unit can play in home games.

Interesting about that rotten record, leading the midwest and all. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

But I think you make some astute points. They do seem to be getting a little bit of regular-season-itis. But I also think that will continue for a while as well. I believe that unlike last year we will be stronger at the end than at the beginning.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-30-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
Kind of funny how when Juwan leaves Denver they become much better, and when he gets to Orlando they are the bottom dwellers in the league. Is he overrated or what? Good thing Dallas recognized this and traded him.

Oh, by the way, props to our Howard for an incredible game from a rook. He definitely was the spark we needed in the third.

Denver has a much better roster than it had last year. All it had was Juwan Howard. The rest of the players were unexperienced players. They have added Carmelo, Andre Miller and not to mention a healthy Marcus Camby and guys like Rodney White, Chris Andersen, Nene, and a bunch of others have a year of experience on their resumes. There a bunch of young players on that squad.

grndmstr_c · 11-30-2003, 04:49 PM

FFM, don't forget about Boykins and Barry. That is a tough tandem of second string guards to have to deal with.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-30-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
FFM, don't forget about Boykins and Barry. That is a tough tandem of second string guards to have to deal with.

'Hey, I thought i'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

But yea, that guy Boykins is incredible. They have alot of guys who contribute off of that bench. Doesn't Chris Andersen get like 2.5 blocks a game? Boykins averages 13 a game. They are going to be a great team when they get some experience under them. Not that they are a bad team now.

The announcers brought up a great statistic on Jon Barry. Every team he plays for the bench is atleast a top 3 team in scoring. He is another one of those guys that you just can't understand why he is a traveler.

LRB · 11-30-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LoveMyMavs14
Not that injuries are an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help. Some things to remember when looking at our record that doesn't appear to be too hot...

Looking back at road losses:

@LA Lakers-Did anyone expect us to win this game? The team had been together for ONE WEEK. The Lakers wanted to show off. Our team was in disarray. I say erase this from memory.
@Washington-Nash goes out, a team that is still learning to play together loses their floor general.
@Toronto-Nash out for his first full game for almost three seasons. Team has been together about two weeks.
@Memphis-Nothing to be ashamed about with this game, tough overtime loss--Dallas could have won if it wasn't for a couple of calls that went the Grizz's way (again, not claiming bias or conspiracy, that's just how it happened).
@Phoenix-Dirk goes out, the team self-destructs. A lot of the blame lies with the team just not playing well, but as the year goes on they will become better equipped to handle when a player goes out.
@Denver-Another close game, missing our all-star forward and best player on the team, lose to a team that has been nearly impossible at home.

IMO, the record looks much worse than it actually is.

A few things to remember.

@Washington-Nash goes out, a team that is still learning to play together loses their floor general.

Washingtons best player, Stackhouse, was in street clothes the entire game. Also we were getting beat pretty good before Nash went out. We definitely did not lose the game because of Nash's injury, although it certainly didnt' help.

@Toronto-Nash out for his first full game for almost three seasons. Team has been together about two weeks.

Nash being out hurt, but again Toronto had some injured. The long and short was that we just didn't have intensity in this game. We played on our heels the entire game. Can't realistically blame that on Nash or on the team being new. If we're playing agressive and getting killed by mistakes like TO's and such yeah I can see that, but playing with less agression that a bunch of 6th grade girls, no, I don't buy that.

@LA Lakers-Did anyone expect us to win this game? The team had been together for ONE WEEK. The Lakers wanted to show off. Our team was in disarray. I say erase this from memory.
This game I definitely think it would have been an upset for us to win, but I would like to have seen us play a little more agressively though we we're anywhere near as bad as in other games.

Quote:

@Memphis-Nothing to be ashamed about with this game, tough overtime loss--Dallas could have won if it wasn't for a couple of calls that went the Grizz's way (again, not claiming bias or conspiracy, that's just how it happened).

Playing so bad that you let a game get close enough to where a couple of bad calls can lose it and it takes a miracle shot just for you to get to overtime when you could have blown the team out with a consistent effort throughout the game is not what I call "nothing to be ashamed of." We should have and would have beat the grizz with 75% of the effort that we showed last nigth. Maybe even less since we had Dirk for most of the game. Far too much whining by the Mavs to the and about the officials and not enough sucking it up and playing like a man.

@Phoenix-Dirk goes out, the team self-destructs. A lot of the blame lies with the team just not playing well, but as the year goes on they will become better equipped to handle when a player goes out.
Dirk's going out is an excuse. We flat out didn't bring it that night even before Dirk went out. And the Suns were playing w/o Marion. Again Dirk's going out didn't help, but that's not what lost the game for us. We got our @$$es handed to us by a team that put forth more than twice our effort.

@Denver-Another close game, missing our all-star forward and best player on the team, lose to a team that has been nearly impossible at home.
We actually gave one of our better on the road efforts in this game. If we'd had an outstanding effort like last night we probably would have one this game. Instead we had a pretty good effort. Pretty good doesn't cut it though when your best player is out, you have one of your few bigs suspended, and you flat out sucked on effort the previous night. Only in the context of losing the previous nights game to Phoenix and needing to come out with a super effort do I fault the Mavs on this loss.

Bottom line is that we need more and harder effort from the Mavs on the road. Over 82 games, there will be nights where the team just won't have that great of an effort. That's understandable. But one thing that seperates the good from the elite teams is that the elite teams have few and far inbetween of these lackluster efforts. Right now the Mavs aren't playing like an elite team in that aspect.

Mavs Rule · 11-30-2003, 04:59 PM

Yes, obviously there are many factors to be considered other than just where Juwan is, but I thought it interesting enough to point out the rise of the Nugs, and the fall of the Magic, and how the common factor is Juwan.

LoveMyMavs14 · 11-30-2003, 05:33 PM

LRB, I wasn't by any means saying that could excuse those losses. But it is the truth that these circumstances helped in working against Dallas' effort. Not excuses, just my explanation of why I think the record looks worse than this team is.

As for Stackhouse/Nash, I understand, but I also think it's much more difficult to lose a pointguard of Nash's caliber during a learning and adjustment period (the guy who gets the other guys the ball) than it is to lose someone like Stackhouse.

Hope that makes more sense now! Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

LRB · 11-30-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LoveMyMavs14
LRB, I wasn't by any means saying that could excuse those losses. But it is the truth that these circumstances helped in working against Dallas' effort. Not excuses, just my explanation of why I think the record looks worse than this team is.

As for Stackhouse/Nash, I understand, but I also think it's much more difficult to lose a pointguard of Nash's caliber during a learning and adjustment period (the guy who gets the other guys the ball) than it is to lose someone like Stackhouse.

Hope that makes more sense now! Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

LoveMyMavs14, I don't disagree that injuries do affect a teams performance. However the Elite teams find ways to overcome all but the most devastating of injuries. The injuries to Nash and Dirk are certainly not trivial as we depend upon those 2 players more than any others on the team. Still, especially when playing the injury plagued Leastern conference teams and Western Conference lottery teams we should be able to overcome the loss of one of these players. I think a good example of an elite team stepping up was SA in their 1st game against us playing without Duncan and Parker. That team put up one hellacious effort against us. We won on pure and simple talent, because they out hustled us and gave more effort. When teams lose key guys, everyone else needs to step up their effort temporarily to make up for it. My complaint is that the Mavs are currently doing an overall poor job of this when on the road.

And I would certainly say that Nash is more valuable to this team than Stackhouse is to the Wizards. Still with Fin, Walker, Jamison, Dirk and our great bunch of role players we should have been able to do tons better against the Wizards.

All I ask is for our guys to give great efforts. Sometimes you will still lose even if you give a great effort. So far we've been losing primarily because we're bring piss poor efforts. The Denver game would be an exception, although I think we could have done a little better. We did give a good effort late in the Memphis game, but it was negated by a horrible effort to start the game.

When you're short a superstar due to energy it's time to seriously crank up the energy and effort, not the reverse.

The Mavs are still learning as a team to play hard as a team and how to best feed off each other's abilities. The coach is still learning how best to use his team. But individually these guys need to be more consistent with their efforts when on the road. I'm sure that this is a mental block, and I'd rather try and work it out now than late in the season or during the playoffs. But the long and short of it is that we need to solve this effort problem that we have on the road.

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 07:43 PM

Interesting comments. For a counter-balance I would look at the spurs. If they are not now they WILL be an elite team later and they are having the same (if not worse) issues than the mavs.

I think there are a couple of things going on.
1. Getting a team to "gel" is a lot harder than fans think. The teams roll of 14 straight last year is as much a testament to NO CHANGES as anything.
2. I'm starting to think that the west (as tough as it was last year) is a heck of a lot tougher. Portland hasn't gone away, denver is much better, houston is better, memphis is much better, even seattle looks as tough and utah isn't chopped liver either. Boy it's going to be really tough to have much more than a 500 record against the west. Not to mention minnesota/lakers.
3. Injuries to dirk/steve (our all-stars) hasn't been helpful, but there it is.

I still feel many times that the players really don't instinctively know what to do and where to be. It took last years team a full half-season and off-season to really gel. It will be a pretty interesting year in the west.

LRB · 11-30-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
Interesting comments. For a counter-balance I would look at the spurs. If they are not now they WILL be an elite team later and they are having the same (if not worse) issues than the mavs.

I think there are a couple of things going on.
1. Getting a team to "gel" is a lot harder than fans think. The teams roll of 14 straight last year is as much a testament to NO CHANGES as anything.
2. I'm starting to think that the west (as tough as it was last year) is a heck of a lot tougher. Portland hasn't gone away, denver is much better, houston is better, memphis is much better, even seattle looks as tough and utah isn't chopped liver either. Boy it's going to be really tough to have much more than a 500 record against the west. Not to mention minnesota/lakers.
3. Injuries to dirk/steve (our all-stars) hasn't been helpful, but there it is.

I still feel many times that the players really don't instinctively know what to do and where to be. It took last years team a full half-season and off-season to really gel. It will be a pretty interesting year in the west.

Dude I would only say that with SA, usually there is a lot of effort. They still lose the games, but they have the effort. Also no one, and probably no two, players on the Mavs mean as much to the Mavs as Duncan does to the Spurs.

I think the west has definitely gotten tougher. That's why it's even more important to bring a huge effort to each game and take no team for granted. Yes this jelling thing can take a while, but individual effort and be put in place immediately. It's not so much for the games that we play now, but habits that have been ingrained into a team over an 82 game schedule are very hard to break during the playoffs. I'd much rather have the habit of our players bringing the effort every game, than a handful of more wins in it's place if it meant that we develop the habit of not bringing it everygame. Now is the time for the Mavs to start working on those habits which will be the little things that make them or break them come the playoffs.

LoveMyMavs14 · 11-30-2003, 08:39 PM

I still find it encouraging that they have been able to take out some good teams--apart from LA, what really good team have they lost to? LRB is right in that they need to play harder, bring it every night. It seems like they almost aren't taking the games vs. weaker teams seriously at all. You can't do that if you want to keep winning. I think this will get better with time.

Also...Nash to Dirk is instinct. It's not to that point with Jamison or Walker yet. They are learning the plays, learning their roles and positions...but until they can be across the court, and all they can see is the defender in front of them, but they STILL know when and where the ball is coming to them, we will not see offense like last year. I actually think these struggles will make them better off later on, they've had to learn how to win without shooting 60% and making 5 threes.

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 10:15 PM

Hmmmm.. So where is the lack of effort coming from??

- Walker - Nope, he's busting it out there.
- Nash - Nope, I never really see him taking a play off.
- Dirk - Maybe
- Finley - Maybe
- Bradley - I actually haven't seen it. Out of shape yes, but loafing I haven't seen it.
- Jamison - Maybe
- Fortson - Never
- Najera - Never
- Delk, Howard, Daniels - Nope...

So from my estimation its' been dirk, jamison, finley.

dallas_esq · 11-30-2003, 10:19 PM

Jamison- nah
Finley- no
Dirk-maybe
Fortson-who cares unless he shows me he can stand up to shaq and hold him to 20 or less

LRB · 11-30-2003, 10:26 PM

Dude I would say that the worst offenders have been Dirk, Fin, and Jamison. Since Dirk and Fin are two of the leaders on this team that's troubling. Even more troubling is when the teams best player sets a bad example.

But I would say that most of the players have been guilty of some lapses. Let's face it, when the other teams runs a steady layup drill or outrebounds you 2 to 1 or more on their offensive glass, you know that that it's a team lack of effort.

But the stars have to set the example. I really haven't been critical of Dirk a lot this year, but it really seems that he's taken a step or more back in his intensity. I sincerely hope that he can correct that.

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 10:37 PM

LRB: I obviously agree with your list. Dallas_Esq even nellie called out finley/jamison in either the denver/phoenix game ( I can't remember which). That was a rarity as he ususally just likes to call out the role players.

And yes I agree that everyone has to take a little sip of the cool-aid on the effort.

I've sort of wondered about dirk, my buddy thinks he's gotten involved with a lady-friend that is taking some of his concentration. Sounds like a wacky theory to me, but he's pretty adamant about it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

LoveMyMavs14 · 11-30-2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

I've sort of wondered about dirk, my buddy thinks he's gotten involved with a lady-friend that is taking some of his concentration.

Awwww, maaan![img]i/expressions/brokenheart.gif[/img]

Lol, okay so I knew he had a girlfriend (I'm pretty sure I heard that), but you never like to find that your hero is taken.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

MavsFanFinley · 11-30-2003, 11:48 PM

Not sure how many are familar with Franz Kafka over at the LMF board, but I thought this was a pretty cool account of a certain play last night. Franz is probably one of the most enjoyable posters I've come across. He'll praise and he'll criticize every and anything. Not to mention full of humor.

Did anyone else notice this?

Quote:

For me, the event that signalled Dirk's 'coming out' was when he failed to shoot an open 18-footer in his 2nd season and was roundly chided by Fin all the way back to the huddle when a timeout was called. Dirk patted his chest [my bad] and nodded his head, he understood that his game had reached a level that the team not only trusted his judgement, but NEEDED his game to have free reign in order to take the next step, free reign from even his own conscience. The leash removed, Dirk never looked back.

I don't know what Josh is gonna turn out to be but the kid has talent and moxie. Should he become a Mav staple in the years to come, I'll always look back to the 3-pointer he hit in the midst of the Mav 2nd half surge vs the Pups. Pups up 66-60, 2 mins to go in the 3rd Q, Josh gets the rebound and the Mavs run. Josh dribbles to the top of the key with Fin as his wingman to the right. Fin surveys the Pups' transition D and screams encouragingly at Josh, who promptly pulls up for the bomb, the crowd explodes. I don't know exactly what Fin screamed at Josh, but I'll always believe it was "Shoot that ball, boy, they don't think you can hit it!" or words to that effect.

Dirk's balk and Josh's bomb had one thing in common: Fin sux.

'Too many chiefs and not enough indians' keeps running thru my head watching the Mavs struggle. I'm right there with you - more scrap and less crap.

Someone then asked how he heard what Fin screamed and this was the follow up post.

Quote:

Wasn't at the game, watched on TV. I didn't mean to intimate that I could hear what Fin yelled - body-language and the situation are my clues. I noticed it live, but replaying the moment on tape ... you can see Fin read the D as Josh dribbles up court to his left, spot the weakness, recognize that Josh might need a very positive demonstrative suggestion to exploit the moment, and finally you can see Josh pull up and do what I WILL ALWAYS BELIEEEEEVE Fin screamed at him to do, "Shoot that ball, BOY!" [basically, right before Josh hoisted, Fin balled up his fists, hunched his shoulders, and screamed something at Josh - I think my guess is pretty good]

One cool thing from the TV broadcast is that the camera immediately went to Dirk's face when Josh's 3 dropped thru and you can see him looking from Josh to Fin, back and forth, eating up the moment. Dirk knew what just happened.

LRB · 12-01-2003, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
LRB: I obviously agree with your list. Dallas_Esq even nellie called out finley/jamison in either the denver/phoenix game ( I can't remember which). That was a rarity as he ususally just likes to call out the role players.

And yes I agree that everyone has to take a little sip of the cool-aid on the effort.

I've sort of wondered about dirk, my buddy thinks he's gotten involved with a lady-friend that is taking some of his concentration. Sounds like a wacky theory to me, but he's pretty adamant about it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

Well if all Nellie needs to do is buy Dirk a chastity belt and throw away the key, that's an easy solution. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LRB · 12-01-2003, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LoveMyMavs14

Quote:

I've sort of wondered about dirk, my buddy thinks he's gotten involved with a lady-friend that is taking some of his concentration.

Awwww, maaan![img]i/expressions/brokenheart.gif[/img]

Lol, okay so I knew he had a girlfriend (I'm pretty sure I heard that), but you never like to find that your hero is taken.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

But if Dirk is concentrating more on screwing her than the other team, then it's the Mavs fans who get screwed in the end.

Mavs Rule · 12-01-2003, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

But the stars have to set the example. I really haven't been critical of Dirk a lot this year, but it really seems that he's taken a step or more back in his intensity. I sincerely hope that he can correct that.

After all the interviews I have heard Dirk give before and through the playoffs last year, I believe that he has changed his beliefs with regard to the regular season. I don't think he now gives the importance to the games earlier than January that he used to. He watched the Spurs start rolling in January '03 and build momentum for the playoffs. By the time they reached the playoffs they were playing at an incredibly high level. I believe that he believes that the Mavs must do the same this year to win it all.

The regular season is a marathon and most players believe that you have to pace yourself or you won't make a statement in the playoffs, where the real games begin. I have seen Dirk say many times that the playoffs are what really matters to him. Last year the Mavs were not playing well right before the playoffs (Fin hurting was part of that) and they struggled to get past the first two rounds. I think this year, he wants to get up for the big rivals in the west during the season and really be focusing as we get to March/April. He is content to let the others take the limelight until then.

Dirk has averaged 25/9 in his career playoff games. We know that he brings it bigtime when it counts. This year I expect the same, but these early games will not see his best ball IMO.

LRB · 12-01-2003, 09:39 AM

Mavs Rule I really hope that this isn't true. I have never been an opponent of slacking through the season and then "turning it on" for a late season tune up and playoff run. And unless you're a 7'1" lardass with exceptional athletic ability for your height and size, this usually doesn't work. The MJ's, Magic's, Bird's, Duncan's, and other great players who've let their teams to championships, with the noted exception of the fatass freak of nature mentioned above, have brought great intensity for 82 games AND the playoffs. Now during the regular season they might sit out an extra game or two with a gimby ankle or flu that they would have sucked it up for in the playoffs. But when they played it was with great intensity.

While the Spurs did have a slow start last year and ended up finishing better than anyone else, the slow start wasn't because Duncan was standing around playing grab ass instead of playing hard. The same can be said for the Spurs slow start this year. There is no excuse for Dirk to lay off on the intensity because these are before January games. It's the coaches job not to play the players extended minutes during the regular season to pace them for the playoffs. It's the players job to bust his ass whenever he's on the court.

Mavs Rule · 12-01-2003, 10:34 AM

LRB, I hope it isn't true also. But I think there will be a noticable pickup in his game after the all-star break. Last year toward March/April do you remember how he dominated? He was averaging something like 28ppg toward the end! Of course Fin was hurt and he had to pick it up to cover for him, but he still lit everyone up unmercifully.

Dirk has a different mindset IMO than the other superstars that you mentioned in your post. Dirk is a much more laid back, take it easy kind of guy, who I believe must meter out his emotional intensity. It is by getting to know himself better that he has learned this. It is too hard on him psychologically too do too much of this too often. This is why we don't see Dirk become the leader that we all think he should be, unlike the other superstars. So IMO, he has to pick his spots.

LRB · 12-01-2003, 12:54 PM

Mavs Rule, I see what you're saying about Dirk's personality and I agree somewhat. I would counter that Dirk's personality and Duncan's aren't really that different. The biggest difference is there coach. Can you really see Pop in a timeout with a few minutes to go and the score tied telliing his team to hang in there because they still have a change to win the game? This is one of the biggest reasons that I wonder if Nellie can be the coach to get us the ring. I think that we might possibly need a coach with more, as the hispanics would say, juevos, than Nellie. I hope not, but I still fear this. If Dirk wasn't so naturally passive, Nellie's style might not be so bad. But the two together really limit what could be a truely dominating player under the right conditions. If only the Tuna coached Basketball. *sigh*

Walkerforthree · 12-01-2003, 04:01 PM

Shaq's only getting 20 ppg, i guess he isn't showing intenisity. I haven't noticed any lack of effort from dirk, walker or fin this year. In fact, the guy i have noticed it in, besides jamison, is nash.

ReDIRKulous · 12-01-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Mavs Rule, I see what you're saying about Dirk's personality and I agree somewhat. I would counter that Dirk's personality and Duncan's aren't really that different. The biggest difference is there coach. Can you really see Pop in a timeout with a few minutes to go and the score tied telliing his team to hang in there because they still have a change to win the game?

I will never understand why Nellie isn't given the benefit of the doubt in situatuions like this. The guys has an incredible amount of experience. Do you honestly think he didn't have some alterior motive when he said that? You are also taking his statement out of context. He had just said how the Mavericks weren't getting ANY breaks from the officials. Bradley had gotten 4 fouls in 4 minutes... for absolutely nothing. And that wasn't all. Also, if I was Popovich I wouldn't feel like an underdog either when I had 2 of the best big men to ever play the game on the same team. It is pretty unbelieveable that he didn't win more than 2 championships in 5 years with those 2.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-01-2003, 05:30 PM

I don't think it's lack of effort from any of these guys I just think it is struggling to find their own roles. It isn't as easy as some would think. I found this out looking at the Spurs, Kings, T-Wolves, and Mavs this season and even somewhat the Lakers.

dude1394 · 12-01-2003, 10:04 PM

I can be talked into the idea that it's not a lack of effort. But it does appear that way. I do think that uncertainty many times looks like a lack of effort or basically being tentative which looks the same.

LRB · 12-02-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I can be talked into the idea that it's not a lack of effort. But it does appear that way. I do think that uncertainty many times looks like a lack of effort or basically being tentative which looks the same.

Tentative, lack of effort, not having our happy face on, I really don't care what you call it, but we need our guys coming out with more fire and agression instead of laying back with their thumbs up their butts waiting for something to happen which doesn't. If it ain't happening like you want it, then by golly make it happen or get a bloody nose trying.