Round 1 - Game 6 game thread - Clippers at Mavs 8:00pm ESPN/Bally

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's why I stopped posting here because this place just became twitter. Unfortunately, there really is no avoiding it anywhere on social media.

I'm fine discussing team/FO flaws as long as it's not the only thing people discuss.

I mean, based on this series, we should have game 7 in the bag.

A game 7/series win will change all of that.
The tone will be the complete opposite and the same ones will consider the Mavs as a legit contender until they lose the first game in the next round and the negativity will crank up again.
Emotions and passions are high now so that has to be taken under consideration.
Mavs will be playing for their PO lives for the first time this season so it will be interesting to see how they respond.

[Jack.Kerr]

Prediction: Carlisle's coaching blunder(s) in Game 6 will go down in Mavericks' history alongside Derek Harper dribbling out the clock against the Lakers with the game tied. Maybe worse.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by turin

Yeah, Luka doesn't have any issues at times with the genius that is Carlisle /sarc

Luka wasn't the only one pissed about this.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/...u-dont-need-it

In the 4th quarter of the game, Doncic asked his head coach to not use a timeout unless it was completely necessary. Well, Carlisle made the decision by himself and still called it. Naturally, this didn't sit well with Luka, who was spotted yelling at his coach on the bench.

Wow

I think he's growing tired of RC

This is not the 1st time Luka has looked pissed off with him.

But this might be the only way the MBT starts to put pressure on RC to win a playoff series again and real soon.

Anyone remember his decision to bench Roddy B vs the Spurs after that kid was playing his best basketball at that time and the spurs players themselves admitted they were happy RC pulled him from that crucial playoff game

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by FollowedKPtodallas

Lol. Totally agreed....this was ALWAYS gonna be 6 or 7 games!

I wish it was just 6

I put money on the mavs to close it out in 6

I'm too scared to bet on game 7 now lol

[tap2390]

Carlisle def screwed the pooch game 6 and deserves some blame, but it’s not his fault that Luka has no help outside of THJ. It’s not his fault our $30 mill a year star basically plays like a poor man’s Davis Bertans. Overall, Carlisle has probably overachieved considering how flawed this roster is. That doesn’t mean I think he should be here next year if we lose this series.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

D-M.com is toxic AF

We're tied with the higher-seeded Clippers and going to a game seven. We won more playoff games than we did in prior seasons (and more than the "exciting up-and-coming" Knicks) and yet every goddamned post here is trashing on the Mavs, the MBT, or wishing that we lose.

It’s really not that bad considering the slump during the season.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Carlisle def screwed the pooch game 6 and deserves some blame, but it’s not his fault that Luka has no help outside of THJ. It’s not his fault our $30 mill a year star basically plays like a poor man’s Davis Bertans. Overall, Carlisle has probably overachieved considering how flawed this roster is. That doesn’t mean I think he should be here next year if we lose this series.

Some media heads thought in game 3 when the Mavs had the clippers on the ropes early in that game they should have allowed luka to play out the entire 1st qtr and go for kill.

But RC pulled him and the Clippers were able to get momentum after luka sat.....

So that was a big decision IMO as well

But hey if they by chance win game 7 then none of that matters.

I just don't feel as confident anymore especially since the Clippers have won 3 out of last 4 matchups and really the Mavs are bone headed Terrence Mann decision away from losing 4 straight games if you think about it.

[purplefrog]

I am extremely frustrated also with the loss last night and perhaps some questionable coaching decisions. I also share the sentiment that the Mavs should be closer to being a contender and that the inconsistent performances by several rotation players make me shake my head in disbelief. But.......

The most fundamental problem is KP. His injuries and lack of contributions when healthy this season have held the team back from taking a more dramatic step towards greatness. Who do you blame for that? At the time of the trade most of us were thrilled that the MBT pulled it off. It was a great deal and we expected KP to be an excellent compliment to Luka. A real #2. However, he has only given us occasional glimpses of stardom that meet those expectations. I am not saying he is a bust but so far he is clearly not the contributor anyone thought he would be. It is possible that a more typical offseason will help him regain his competitive edge and become the player we imagined. But then again, maybe not. The point is, hindsight is 20-20.

A second case in point is the Josh Richardson trade. JRich is a similar story. Most of us applauded the MBT when the trade was made, but again he has not met our expectations. Who do you blame? I might suggest these types of trades happen all the time and sometimes they work out but sometimes they don't give the anticipated result.

The 2020-2021 Mavs are inconsistent on both sides of the ball. It might be RC, but it is more likely a good but not great roster that had incredible potential but have fallen short for a variety of reasons (including some that are difficult to nail down - e.g. JRich). A question you might want to ask yourself is "Would another coach have helped KP become a real #2 option this season?" And "Could another coach have elevated JRich's game?" I am skeptical on both accounts.

The Mavs are tied 3-3 in a series that virtually no expert thought they could win. In two of the three losses, it looked like the Mavs had the Clippers on the ropes. In the end, the strength of their roster 1-8 proved to be a difference maker. Not really surprising. In fact, the surprising thing is the Mavs are still competing AND they have an excellent chance to come away as the winner of this series. That is progress anyway you look at it.

My bottom line is that the MBT needs to make significant roster changes in the offseason (assuming the Mavs don't make a deep playoff run - which is still possible). In the meantime, we have a Game 7 vs a team many thought would be the 2021 NBA champions. Go Mavs!!

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's why I stopped posting here because this place just became twitter. Unfortunately, there really is no avoiding it anywhere on social media.

I'm fine discussing team/FO flaws as long as it's not the only thing people discuss.

I mean, based on this series, we should have game 7 in the bag.

Devin Harris, you’re a good poster— we could use your input. Traffic is way down here so I see any conversation as positive. This team needs some huge fundamental changes so it seems natural to me that we’d be discussing those possibilities.

Also, I see plenty of posts discussing Game 6 and strategies used or misused.
The timeout, using Maxi to close the game, not going back to Boban, waiting too long to get KP in, switching on Kawhi and not running enough traps/doubles at him. It’s not all slagging on the FO, though god knows they deserve every bit of criticism they get.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My problem with the draft is not who they drafted but why they drafted them.

They purposely drafted three guys they knew they wouldn't play. Just can't wrap my head around that one.

If they went BPA I have NO problem with the 3 they drafted. Drafting for need is how we got Shane Larkin over Giannis and Gobert.

[Zeus]

Sorry Erica. You are correct, since we have one more win than last year this season is a success even if Mavs lose on Sunday. Maybe next year we can take a 7 game series into overtime before losing. That will be even more progress. Somebody forgot to tell the Suns and the Hawks they cant win their first year in the playoffs.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I am extremely frustrated also with the loss last night and perhaps some questionable coaching decisions. I also share the sentiment that the Mavs should be closer to being a contender and that the inconsistent performances by several rotation players make me shake my head in disbelief. But.......

The most fundamental problem is KP. His injuries and lack of contributions when healthy this season have held the team back from taking a more dramatic step towards greatness. Who do you blame for that? At the time of the trade most of us were thrilled that the MBT pulled it off. It was a great deal and we expected KP to be an excellent compliment to Luka. A real #2. However, he has only given us occasional glimpses of stardom that meet those expectations. I am not saying he is a bust but so far he is clearly not the contributor anyone thought he would be. It is possible that a more typical offseason will help him regain his competitive edge and become the player we imagined. But then again, maybe not. The point is, hindsight is 20-20.

A second case in point is the Josh Richardson trade. JRich is a similar story. Most of us applauded the MBT when the trade was made, but again he has not met our expectations. Who do you blame? I might suggest these types of trades happen all the time and sometimes they work out but sometimes they don't give the anticipated result.

The 2020-2021 Mavs are inconsistent on both sides of the ball. It might be RC, but it is more likely a good but not great roster that had incredible potential but have fallen short for a variety of reasons (including some that are difficult to nail down - e.g. JRich). A question you might want to ask yourself is "Would another coach have helped KP become a real #2 option this season?" And "Could another coach have elevated JRich's game?" I am skeptical on both accounts.

The Mavs are tied 3-3 in a series that virtually no expert thought they could win. In two of the three losses, it looked like the Mavs had the Clippers on the ropes. In the end, the strength of their roster 1-8 proved to be a difference maker. Not really surprising. In fact, the surprising thing is the Mavs are still competing AND they have an excellent chance to come away as the winner of this series. That is progress anyway you look at it.

My bottom line is that the MBT needs to make significant roster changes in the offseason (assuming the Mavs don't make a deep playoff run - which is still possible). In the meantime, we have a Game 7 vs a team many thought would be the 2021 NBA champions. Go Mavs!!

eloquently stated & 100% dead on

[tap2390]

There is a middle ground between “drafting josh green over saddiq bey is the dumbest decision by a FO since Bowie over Jordan” and “Mavs fans are toxic for pointing out flaws.”

That middle ground is that this team has largely overachieved despite its mismatched pieces. Those mismatched pieces are the FO’s fault, but hindsight is 20/20. Like purplefrog said the vast majority of us applauded the moves that hurt the most today — trading for/ paying KP and Seth for JRich.

This off-season could set the stage for Luka’s career and whether he retires a Mav or leaves after his first extension. I don’t think whether this team is critically flawed is up for debate though. The Clippers have tried to hand us this series. If they win game 7 I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re swept by the Jazz. We need the Mavs BT to admit this team can not truly contend as built.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

That middle ground is that this team has largely overachieved despite its mismatched pieces. Those mismatched pieces are the FO’s fault, but hindsight is 20/20. Like purplefrog said the vast majority of us applauded the moves that hurt the most today — trading for/ paying KP and Seth for JRich.

But if we overchieved, then why is that a bad thing? That's where the argument drifts away.

When is it ever bad to overachieve? I suppose it puts a false sense of how good the team really is in the FO's mind, but otherwise we should be giving this team at least a decent round of applause.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But if we overchieved, then why is that a bad thing? That's where the argument drifts away.

When is it ever bad to overachieve? I suppose it puts a false sense of how good the team really is in the FO's mind, but otherwise we should be giving this team at least a decent round of applause.

I get your point.

I think we've overachieved given our circumstances -- KP never reaching his old self, Dwight's achilles injury, J-Rich trade not working out, Luka being responsible for such a large share of our offense, our COVID issues, etc.

I think we've underachieved given our talent level and cap situation. This is largely because of Porzingis/ Richardson. The FO should be judged by how it manages those situations this offseason.

I do think the team outside of KP and Richardson deserve props for how they've played given the natural ceiling of this squad with an unhealthy KP.

[Fuzz]

I was at the game and very vividly recall seeing Luka screaming at Carlisle after that timeout. He was signaling way before he called it not to call it. I was sitting behind the basket on the opposite end of the Mavs bench.

At that point, there was a building momentum, the crowd was into it, the players where into it. The timeout was absolutely inexplicable at the time and it still is. It was one of the moments where you FELT they were about to stomp on them and if we felt it as fans there is absolutely no way the players didn't feel it, especially a player like Luka that feeds from it.

I don't know if it was Rick trying to establish his control over the team. To not fold to his star player. But this is Luka Doncic. You fucking let him flow into the game. I haven't read anything about why Rick called that time out but it was truly a mistake in my view. To close the game, playing out if timeouts always doomed the Mavs everytime we had a lead.

In my opinion, that isn't a good look for Carlisle or the Mavs. Especially if they go on to lose this series. Luka is a generational talent. Still makes mistakes, but the guy dominates. The way the Mavs finished that fourth quarter was frankly the worst I've seen our of Carlisle. Why did he leave Kebler in there? Why did he allow Kawhi to be 1-1 with Luka on defense to close the game?

Our guys missed open shots, we had plenty of opportunities to put them away imo. But that entire 4th quarter and loss was on the coach's lack of trying. It's a closeout game. It was clearly not working. Go to what worked. Try ANYTHING ELSE. And I wouldn't hesitate to think that one way for Carlisle to see the exit is to butt heads with Luka.

I know y'all have discussed this to death. But I also wanted to vent.

[turin]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But if we overchieved, then why is that a bad thing? That's where the argument drifts away.

When is it ever bad to overachieve? I suppose it puts a false sense of how good the team really is in the FO's mind, but otherwise we should be giving this team at least a decent round of applause.

The overachieve/underachieve evaluation is completely subjective. Who exactly is deciding this? I don't buy the overachieve so much. I've watched pretty much every game, and there were entirely too many games lost this season due to a combination of poor coaching decisions and choking down the stretch.

Are the Mavs going to win them all? Of course not, but you expect to see some improvement year over year in these areas, especially in light of the fact that we are pretty much playing with the very same group we had last year.

I guess you could say that numbers-wise we choked away less games this year than last. How many less? 2? Maybe 3? Headscratching coaching decisions? Considering this is year 2 with basically the same group, quite a bit more than last year.

When I think about the overachieve/underachieve evaluation, I think about the roster and what the coach is getting out of it. Most know that I'm critical of RC. I think he makes head scratching decisions way too often, and he's late to the party at times with what appear to be "obvious" changes, even to fans. Also, I think most people would admit that he is stubborn and will continue to throw the same lineup out over and over again only to watch it fail in the exact same way almost every time.

The MBT has publicly said that they are very happy with this team and wouldn't want to disrupt this group, so either they are blowing smoke up our butts, or they really believe this. So the real question is, if they aren't lying to us, then why is RC not getting more out of the group because, imo, the MBT's stated expectations for this group doesn't match performance, at least, not in my eyes. Unless the MBT is lying to us, then they should be the first to admit the Mavs are underachieving based upon their implied expectations. I would agree with them on this point.

For example, the 2 bigs in a zone option has only been unveiled as an option of last resort beginning game 5 of this playoff series. I think this is ridiculous considering the composition of this roster. They have 2 of the 3 tallest bigs in the entire NBA! The coaching staff should be making adjustments on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball regardless of preferred system. The systems need to either be changed or tailored to the skillsets and talent of the actual players on the roster, not some theoretical, analytics-based, best-case, min/max scenario. I don't think this has been done well enough, and that is the job of the coaches, and the main reason that I don't think the Mavs have overperformed.

You may think I'm being hypercritical, but it cannot be overstated how important it is to NOT shoot oneself in the foot. Don't believe me? If Mann goes ahead and makes the layup at the open rim in front of him at the end of Game 5, the Clippers probably win, and the series is over now. What if RC doesn't call the the late game timeout in Game 6, and the Mavs keep playing through with momentum, not even mentioning the option of closing with Boban-KP in a zone? The Mavs may very well have won and the series is now over. EVERYTHING is magnified in importance during the playoffs. It only takes ONE blunder to cost your team a series. Players not executing is a very different thing than a coaching blunder. Mann's screwup was a player screwup. RC's was a coaching blunder. Between the 2, who should we expect to be LEAST LIKELY to screw up with the game on the line? Players or coach? I'd argue it's the HoF coach.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by turin

The overachieve/underachieve evaluation is completely subjective. Who exactly is deciding this? I don't buy the overachieve so much. I've watched pretty much every game, and there were entirely too many games lost this season due to a combination of poor coaching decisions and choking down the stretch.

Are the Mavs going to win them all? Of course not, but you expect to see some improvement year over year in these areas, especially in light of the fact that we are pretty much playing with the very same group we had last year.

I guess you could say that numbers-wise we choked away less games this year than last. How many less? 2? Maybe 3? Headscratching coaching decisions? Considering this is year 2 with basically the same group, quite a bit more than last year.

When I think about the overachieve/underachieve evaluation, I think about the roster and what the coach is getting out of it. Most know that I'm critical of RC. I think he makes head scratching decisions way too often, and he's late to the party at times with what appear to be "obvious" changes, even to fans. Also, I think most people would admit that he is stubborn and will continue to throw the same lineup out over and over again only to watch it fail in the exact same way almost every time.

The MBT has publicly said that they are very happy with this team and wouldn't want to disrupt this group, so either they are blowing smoke up our butts, or they really believe this. So the real question is, if they aren't lying to us, then why is RC not getting more out of the group because, imo, the MBT's stated expectations for this group doesn't match performance, at least, not in my eyes. Unless the MBT is lying to us, then they would have to admit that the Mavs are underachieving based upon their public stance. I would agree with them on this point.

For example, the 2 bigs in a zone option has only been unveiled as an option of last resort beginning game 5 of this playoff series. I think this is ridiculous considering the composition of this roster. They have 2 of the 3 tallest bigs in the entire NBA! The coaching staff should be making adjustments on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball regardless of preferrred system. Their play needs to be tailored to the skillsets and talent of the actual players on the roster, not some theoretical analytics-based, best-case hypothetical. I don't thing this has been done well enough, and that is the job of the coaches, and the main reason that I don't think the Mavs have overperformed.

You may think I'm being hypercritical, but it cannot be overstated how important it is to NOT shoot oneself in the foot. Don't believe me? If Mann goes ahead and makes the layup at the open rim in front of him at the end of Game 5, the Clippers probably win, and the series is over now. What if RC doesn't call the the late game timeout in Game 6, and the Mavs keep playing through with momentum, not even mentioning the option of closing with Boban-KP in a zone? The Mavs may very well have won and the series is now over. EVERYTHING is magnified in importance during the playoffs. It only takes ONE blunder to cost your team a series. Players not executing is a very different thing than a coaching blunder. Mann's screwup was a player screwup. RC's was a coaching blunder. Between the 2, who should we expect to be LEAST LIKELY to screw up with the game on the line? Players or coach? I'd argue it's the HoF coach.

A couple of comments...

An abundance of talent can make a mediocre coach look really good. Mediocre talent can make a good coach look bad on occasion. Truly great coaches can make mediocre talent look like a contender. So, where does that leave us?

I don't buy the idea that the Mavs roster has an abundance of talent because you really need a legitimate #2 superstar to be at that level. That's my opinion. Second, being 3-3 with the Clippers suggests this Mavs team is playing really well even though there have been occasions where they missed opportunities to clinch this series. So, I think that leaves us with two options: RC is a good or great coach. If the Mavs win this series and go on to contend with the Jazz then I think you can legitimately label RC as a great coach (even great coaches make mistakes from time to time). If they lose tomorrow, then maybe he is only a good coach. If you want to replace him, then you would hope you can find a great coach to take his place. I am not convinced a great coach is available at this time.

Finally, it is difficult (maybe impossible) to reconcile the idea that the MBT is "happy with the roster" and that RC is a great coach. I agree these two ideas seem to be at odds with each other. My question (assuming the Mavs do not win the championship) is do the Mavs change coaches or make significant roster changes? Both? Right now, it seems most logical to try and upgrade the roster and give a good, maybe great coach another opportunity to win a championship.

[turin]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

A couple of comments...

An abundance of talent can make a mediocre coach look really good. Mediocre talent can make a good coach look bad on occasion. Truly great coaches can make mediocre talent look like a contender. So, where does that leave us?

I don't buy the idea that the Mavs roster has an abundance of talent because you really need a legitimate #2 superstar to be at that level. That's my opinion. Second, being 3-3 with the Clippers suggests this Mavs team is playing really well even though there have been occasions where they missed opportunities to clinch this series. So, I think that leaves us with two options: RC is a good or great coach. If the Mavs win this series and go on to contend with the Jazz then I think you can legitimately label RC as a great coach (even great coaches make mistakes from time to time). If they lose tomorrow, then maybe he is only a good coach. If you want to replace him, then you would hope you can find a great coach to take his place. I am not convinced a great coach is available at this time.

Finally, it is difficult (maybe impossible) to reconcile the idea that the MBT is "happy with the roster" and that RC is a great coach. I agree these two ideas seem to be at odds with each other. My question (assuming the Mavs do not win the championship) is do the Mavs change coaches or make significant roster changes? Both? Right now, it seems most logical to try and upgrade the roster and give a good, maybe great coach another opportunity to win a championship.

Thanks for the feedback. Good comments. I think I would place the RC in the better than good but not great category.

The most perplexing question to be answered is not even whether or not to keep RC, but rather, what is the most important change to make going forward? Considering the fact that Cuban is the owner, and assuming that he's not the issue like Jones is with the Cowboys, then I think it's time to make a change at GM first and foremost, and then I let the new GM make the decision about RC.

If Cuban is the main issue, which I have a sneaking suspicion that's the case, then I don't think there will be any changes at all, and I'm not sure that it would make much of a difference anyway.

For me, this is the most frustrating thing about the Mavs, and unfortunately, since RC is the closest of the 3 of the MBT to the team that we see on a daily basis, he is going to receive the brunt of the criticism - deservedly so or not. It's because of this that I'm so critical of RC. The roster is what the roster is, and I want him to squeeze every last ounce of potential out of it. My preferred style of play for this roster is very different than his, and I think that's why I have such an issue with him.

In the end it's not really so much about RC as it is about Luka. I just hate to see the years pass and opportunities for advancement in the playoffs potentially missed when I think there are changes and adjustments to be tried that, while they won't guarantee a series win, give the Mavs a better opportunity to win than what's been tried so far.

Unfortunately, it's only in hindsight that we'll be able to truly know whether the MBT has done enough to keep Luka long-term, and that's really the most important thing to me. Bottom line for me, everybody is expendable and can move on, Cuban included, so long as that means Luka is happy and stays. Yes, I know Cuban isn't going anywhere, but that's how important I think it is to make Luka committed and happy to stay in Dallas.

[tap2390]

Honest question.

If we were (obviously) thrilled with the Luka/ Brunson draft, agree Green deserves a chance, and (at the time) agreed that the Porzingis and Richardson moves were no-brainers, can we single out Donnie as the issue? In hindsight, the roster doesn’t mesh. I think Donnie deserves a chance to fix it and Carlisle (most likely) deserves a chance to coach a new squad.

It’s crazy to think how much potentially rides on our game 7 performance.

Regardless of the back and forth and differing opinions I think we all agree that Luka is a demigod and GO MAVS.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by turin

Thanks for the feedback. Good comments. I think I place the RC in the better than good but not great category if there is one.

The most perplexing question to be answered is not even whether or not to keep RC, but rather, what is the most important change to make going forward? Considering the fact that Cuban is the owner, and assuming that he's not the issue like Jones is with the Cowboys, then I think it's time to make a change at GM first and foremost, and then I let the new GM make the decision about RC.

If Cuban is the main issue, which I have a sneaking suspicion that's the case, then I don't think there will be any changes at all, and I'm not sure that it would make much of a difference anyway.

For me, this is the most frustrating thing about the Mavs, and unfortunately, since RC is the closest of the 3 of the MBT to the team that we see on a daily basis, he is going to receive the brunt of the criticism - deservedly so or not. It's because of this that I'm so critical of RC. The roster is what the roster is, and I want him to squeeze every last ounce of potential out of it. My preferred style of play for this roster is very different than his, and I think that's why I have such an issue with him.

In the end it's not really so much about RC as it is about Luka. I just hate to see the years pass and opportunities for advancement in the playoffs potentially missed when I think there are changes and adjustments to be tried that, while they won't guarantee a series win, give the Mavs a better opportunity to win than what's been tried so far.

Unfortunateley, it's only in hindsight that we'll be able to truly know whether the MBT has done enough to keep Luka long term, and that's really the most important thing to me. Bottom line for me, everybody is expendable and can move on, Cuban included, so long as that means Luka is happy and stays. Yes, I know Cuban isn't going anywhere, but that's how important I think it is to make Luka committed and happy to stay in Dallas.

I agree. Standing pat is not the answer regardless of what happens in
Game 7. I too am concerned the post-mortem on the season will be "we are on the right track, so don't mess with the souffle we are creating".

[Fuzz]

✓

[turin]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Honest question.

If we were (obviously) thrilled with the Luka/ Brunson draft, agree Green deserves a chance, and (at the time) agreed that the Porzingis and Richardson moves were no-brainers, can we single out Donnie as the issue? In hindsight, the roster doesn’t mesh. I think Donnie deserves a chance to fix it and Carlisle (most likely) deserves a chance to coach a new squad.

It’s crazy to think how much potentially rides on our game 7 performance.

Regardless of the back and forth and differing opinions I think we all agree that Luka is a demigod and GO MAVS.

I wasn't thrilled with the Brunson pick to begin with. We didn't need another shortish point guard on the roster at the time imo. Those type of guys can always be picked up. At the time, I preferred taking a shot at a bigger, athletic player with more defensive and rebounding potential.

Currently, Brunson is showing himself to be a selection that only makes a difference during the regular season. Come playoff time, his effectiveness will be limited, and against length, he's horrible. We should've traded him this season before the TDL when his value was probably at an all-time high. I like the guy, he's professional, mature, but he's not a long-term building block imo.

Green? I was fine with the Green selection but only if he was going to get playing time during the regular season. I still think he may end up being fine, but this year has been a waste for him. There hasn't been much practice time, so by him not playing, I'm not exactly sure how he's supposed to improve and get better just because he is aging with each passing day. He should've played a lot more, and I still don't have any issues with him playing even 5-7 minutes in the right spots now in the playoffs with the right people for defensive purposes as a cutter and spark of energy off the bench, but we know how unlikely that is. It's just really sad that his entire rookie year was wasted.

I loved the KP trade and was a huge fan. I am still not as down on KP like most are. I honestly believe that his biggest issue is the offensive system in the same sense that Boban's biggest issue defensively is the defensive system. He is exposed in man coverage and needs to be in a zone for maximum effectiveness. Now, I'm not saying that the 2 are equal in ability or expectations, but there are problems inherent in forcing square pegs into round holes. The 5 out sucks as a system for KP because it doesn't provide enough opportunities to allow KP's skillset to make a difference. He ends up standing around the perimeter as a 7'3" shooting guard. The best thing the coaching staff has done lately is have him spotting up in the corner instead of behind the 3-pt line on either side of the top of the key. He's at least in a passing lane at times in the corners when Luka drives, but the 5 out is a poor system for his skillset becuase of where he has to be positioned in the overall scheme of the offense. Seth Curry would be almost as good of a fit as KP in the 5 out for a whole lot less money. That's how bad of a system fit it is for KP.

After 10 years of 1st round exits, I don't think Carlisle deserves anything other than to continue working at the discretion of Cuban and the GM. He is not owed anything. 10 years is a long time, and the style of play when he had his greatest success is very different than today.

As for Donnie? Should he get a chance? Based upon him getting overruled on the Giannis draft and putting the KP trade together, yes, I'd give him another chance. So where does that leave us? Exactly where we are now, and why my sneaking suspicion that Cuban is the problem ala Jerry Jones. I also think that his "billionaire" status reputation as a guy who will spend is a bit overstated. I think he has been much more miserly the last several years compared to his reputation. IIRC, forgoing the Giannis pick saved what $250K? SMH

We are in a rut, and continuing on the same path with the same people is not going to break us out of it. Something has to change imo, and the only 3 options are to change out Donnie, RC, or both; otherwise, we are having this very same discussion end of next year more than likely, and Luka is another year older.

Bottom line, I have lost trust in both the system and the process. Something needs to change for me to believe that something will actually change.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Sorry Erica. You are correct, since we have one more win than last year this season is a success even if Mavs lose on Sunday. Maybe next year we can take a 7 game series into overtime before losing. That will be even more progress. Somebody forgot to tell the Suns and the Hawks they cant win their first year in the playoffs.

Yeah I will never understand the argument that seems to somehow get thrown out there that the mavs are a young team and need experience 1st to win playoff series.

I've always felt when you have guys like Kleber, THJ, DFS, Boban, KP, WCS, Powell and Richardson all closer to 30 than they are 20 there is no way in hell this team should keep being labeled young or inexperienced.

But somehow you'll get a few posters who will continue to walk down that path going into the playoffs back to back years.

I brought up both Phoenix and Atlanta in another thread as two teams who quickly passed Dallas this year because they surrounded their star players with pieces via trades or FA that their FO evaluated properly and sort of made bolder moves than the mavs.

For example a lot of fans here would of told you Chris Paul had a terrible contract and didn't fit the timeline of Luka so there would be no need to make an aggressive move like that to win now.

Does Paul fit the booker/Ayton timeline?

On top of that they added a big wing defender like Crowder just for these playoff moments


The Hawks going after Bogdanovic was a smart move and one that I thought for sure last offseason the mavs would go hard after considering they were allegedly in love with him and needed another ball handler but they were waiting on Giannis a bigger fish pipe dream again

I thought A.Gordon would make a terrific fit on this team because they have been needing a serious big wing defender for years. I can't help but think if the mavs really wanted Gordon they could have got it done draft night for sure way before the trade deadline and even at the deadline if they weren't so in love with certain players already on this roster like a package built around Brunson/Kleber I think Orlando would've listened depending on what else you were adding to the deal.

Seems like small moves centered around guys like Wright, Richardson or Redick is what they are only willing to do in order to not disrupt much of the top rotation. It honestly wouldn't shock me if they make a similar deal this offseason for someone like Dragic.

They believed it was more worth the risk to stay intact and hope that a big fish finally lands here.

I agree with a few others even if they win this series they can't let that cloud their vision at some point you got to fix this defensive issue with bigger wing and get you a true secondary ball handler things that have lingered for 3 years now.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

In the 4th quarter of the game, Doncic asked his head coach to not use a timeout unless it was completely necessary. Well, Carlisle made the decision by himself and still called it. Naturally, this didn't sit well with Luka, who was spotted yelling at his coach on the bench.

Wow

I think he's growing tired of RC

This is not the 1st time Luka has looked pissed off with him.

But this might be the only way the MBT starts to put pressure on RC to win a playoff series again and real soon.

Anyone remember his decision to bench Roddy B vs the Spurs after that kid was playing his best basketball at that time and the spurs players themselves admitted they were happy RC pulled him from that crucial playoff game

Luka Doncic upset after Dallas Mavericks fail to call timeout late in loss to Milwaukee Bucks

"It's Coach's decision, but if we would have made the shot, everything would be good," said Doncic, who had 29 points, 9 rebounds and 13 assists in the loss, accounting for 61 of the Mavs' 81 points when he was on the floor. "... But I don't know. It's Coach's decision to call a timeout or no, so I think it's good."

LOL. And love how Carlisle returned the favor when Doncic blew the defensive assignment on game-losing shot a few games later. Who was that against again? Spurs, DeRosen. Doncic dozing in no-man's land.

Compiling quite a Greatest Hits album here.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah I will never understand the argument that seems to somehow get thrown out there that the mavs are a young team and need experience 1st to win playoff series.

I've always felt when you have guys like Kleber, THJ, DFS, Boban, KP, WCS, Powell and Richardson all closer to 30 than they are 20 there is no way in hell this team should keep being labeled young or inexperienced.

But somehow you'll get a few posters who will continue to walk down that path going into the playoffs back to back years.

I brought up both Phoenix and Atlanta in another thread as two teams who quickly passed Dallas this year because they surrounded their star players with pieces via trades or FA that their FO evaluated properly and sort of made bolder moves than the mavs.

For example a lot of fans here would of told you Chris Paul had a terrible contract and didn't fit the timeline of Luka so there would be no need to make an aggressive move like that to win now.

Does Paul fit the booker/Ayton timeline?

On top of that they added a big wing defender like Crowder just for these playoff moments


The Hawks going after Bogdanovic was a smart move and one that I thought for sure last offseason the mavs would go hard after considering they were allegedly in love with him and needed another ball handler but they were waiting on Giannis a bigger fish pipe dream again

I thought A.Gordon would make a terrific fit on this team because they have been needing a serious big wing defender for years. I can't help but think if the mavs really wanted Gordon they could have got it done draft night for sure way before the trade deadline and even at the deadline if they weren't so in love with certain players already on this roster like a package built around Brunson/Kleber I think Orlando would've listened depending on what else you were adding to the deal.

Seems like small moves centered around guys like Wright, Richardson or Redick is what they are only willing to do. It honestly wouldn't shock me if they make a similar deal this offseason for someone like Dragic.

They believed it was more worth the risk to stay intact and hope that a big fish finally lands here.

I agree with a few others even if they win this series they can't let that cloud their vision at some point you got to fix this defensive issue with bigger wing and get you a true secondary ball handler things that have lingered for 3 years now.

Don't even get me started on my wish list of picking up both Vuc and Gordon from Orlando over the last couple of years. :-( What's tough to swallow is that I don't think we ever made a serious attempt to go after either of them. :-/

Had we gotten Vuc, we probably wouldn't have made the KP deal, but then maybe we get Gordon, too. I'd prefer both Vuc and Gordon over KP. Yeah, I'm greedy. ;-)

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by turin

Don't even get me started on my wish list of picking up both Vuc and Gordon from Orlando over the last couple of years. :-( What's tough to swallow is that I don't think we ever made a serious attempt to go after either of them. :-/

Had we gotten Vuc, we probably wouldn't have made the KP deal, but then maybe we get Gordon, too. I'd prefer both Vuc and Gordon over KP. Yeah, I'm greedy. ;-)

I'm not sure about Vuc because I think the mavs were content with rolling out Powell prior to his injury and then they've always stated they have enough C's

Now Gordon's name was kind of out there for awhile even prior to this season starting.

I felt like the best time they could have closed a deal for him was on draft night and then when I saw what Denver gave up later it made me puke because I think Brunson was covered by several teams but on MMB they had article saying Brunson was practically untouchable because the mavs viewed him as a long term piece.

We made that mistake with Roddy B if I recall overrating his value to the franchise long term success.

But it was clear doing the season that JB struggled to his got vs teams with length on the perimeter and that wasn't going to change in the playoffs. I felt like him and burke were virtually the same players that's why I would have dangled him in a trade for someone like Gordon.

But hey they are where they are now....

I just hate to see them blow a 2-0 lead by losing 4 out of the last 5 games because that to me is a choke job considering how often teams have blown that type of lead in playoff history.

I'm praying RC will do two things tomorrow

1) post up Luka a little more possibly getting either PG or KL in early foul trouble

2) Close the game out if close with zone defense and Boban getting more 4th qtr minutes to give us an option to score beyond jacking up 3's every 4th qtr possession

Clippers haven't really shot the lights out from 3 vs the zone like some fans kept predicting on here. Which makes me upset because it took so long for the Mavs to even consider a zone knowing they lacked the perimeter defenders to man up vs LA going all the way back to last years playoffs

[turin]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm not sure about Vuc because I think the mavs were content with rolling out Powell prior to his injury and then they've always stated they have enough C's

Now Gordon's name was kind of out there for awhile even prior to this season starting.

I felt like the best time they could have closed a deal for him was on draft night and then when I saw what Denver gave up later it made me puke because I think Brunson was covered by several teams but on MMB they had article saying Brunson was practically untouchable because the mavs viewed him as a long term piece.

We made that mistake with Roddy B if I recall overrating his value to the franchise long term success.

But it was clear doing the season that JB struggled to his got vs teams with length on the perimeter and that wasn't going to change in the playoffs. I felt like him and burke were virtually the same players that's why I would have dangled him in a trade for someone like Gordon.

But hey they are where they are now....

I just hate to see them blow a 2-0 lead by losing 4 out of the last 5 games because that to me is a choke job considering how often teams have blown that type of lead in playoff history.

I'm praying RC will do two things tomorrow

1) post up Luka a little more possibly getting either PG or KL in early foul trouble

2) Close the game out if close with zone defense and Boban getting more 4th qtr minutes to give us an option to score beyond jacking up 3's every 4th qtr possession

Clippers haven't really shot the lights out from 3 vs the zone like some fans kept predicting on here. Which makes me upset because it took so long for the Mavs to even consider a zone knowing they lacked the perimeter defenders to man up vs LA going all the way back to last years playoffs

I hope RC sticks with Boban and KP in the zone. The more time that group has together, the better they will play. I wish the Mavs had one extra day, so RC could tweak the offense with that group a bit more, but I did like what he did prior to game 6. We just need Boban to hit more bunnies, and to have some of those entry passes to him in the lane be a bit better placed.

The Mavs were so close in my mind to really blowing both of those games wide open, but they just couldn't take that next step. I'm hopeful that they will find that next gear tomorrow. If they can do that, then the main concern is going to be their horrendous finishing. At least if Boban is in the middle down the stretch, there will be an inside option in addition to the overused Luka iso or a last second, poorly jacked up 3pt shot.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I think we'll have a good idea by the end of the first quarter tomorrow. I honestly expect the Mavs to have a double digit lead if they start the Boban-KP zone group again.

We'll see. Go Mavs!

[Dallas41]

Yeah I agree about Boban

I'm watching Brook Lopez and taking advantage of the size and strength advantage he has inside.

Boban just need to gather himself more and just power up the shot he's going to either dunk or get fouled that way.

Those 4-5 bunnies he missed especially in the 1st half really hurt.

But he looked much better finishing inside doing the 2nd half which is why I was a bit upset that RC pulled him in the 4th for Kleber and Powell.

Neither one of them defensively offers much more than Boban this series and Boban is clearly the more effective scoring option so you have to ride with best matchup until the dude proves you otherwise

Going back to Kleber just because you think he's a better switchable defender that 4th qtr hurt Dallas big time because Kleber hasn't defended well enough nor has he scored enough to justify closing ahead of Boban.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My problem with the draft is not who they drafted but why they drafted them.

They purposely drafted three guys they knew they wouldn't play. Just can't wrap my head around that one.

Are you saying that they drafted them because they wouldn't play?

[turin]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Are you saying that they drafted them because they wouldn't play?

I think he's saying that because of their state of development and being rookies, RC wasn't going to be playing them much at all their rookie season, and I completely agree with him.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[D_D_D]

Jesus Erica get over it. This is an online forum. Populated by hundreds of DIFFERENT people with DIFFERENT opinions. I've said it before too, that you are being a hypocrite. Plain and simple. I've seen you bash the Mavs, the FO, everything, many times when we lose or play horribly. You're no "better" than anyone here. We are all equal. Oh you're a moderator? Even worse lol. You have alot more posts? Who cares. We are all equal, in that we are Mavs fans. That's why we're here.

Shit I've been fed up with Carlisle for a year and a half or more. And I pray to Mark Cuban to get rid of him this off-season!

But hey, if you dont like things that are being posted, or think this forum has become "toxic" then either ignore or go somewhere else. Who fucking cares. Everyone has their thoughts and opinions. And again, you've been "toxic" with some posts in the past too, to use your word. Get over it and just realize it's a FORUM and just keep being a Mavs fan if you want in whatever way you choose.

I'm not even going to look at this thread again so if you have some choice words for me, they won't be seen. Just chill and be a fan and enjoy your life. Take care.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by D_D_D

Jesus Erica get over it. This is an online forum. Populated by hundreds of DIFFERENT people with DIFFERENT opinions. I've said it before too, that you are being a hypocrite. Plain and simple. I've seen you bash the Mavs, the FO, everything, many times when we lose or play horribly. You're no "better" than anyone here. We are all equal. Oh you're a moderator? Even worse lol. You have alot more posts? Who cares. We are all equal, in that we are Mavs fans. That's why we're here.

Shit I've been fed up with Carlisle for a year and a half or more. And I pray to Mark Cuban to get rid of him this off-season!

But hey, if you dont like things that are being posted, or think this forum has become "toxic" then either ignore or go somewhere else. Who fucking cares. Everyone has their thoughts and opinions. And again, you've been "toxic" with some posts in the past too, to use your word. Get over it and just realize it's a FORUM and just keep being a Mavs fan if you want in whatever way you choose.

I'm not even going to look at this thread again so if you have some choice words for me, they won't be seen. Just chill and be a fan and enjoy your life. Take care.

You preaching to the choir here.

Way too many sensitive fans that get upset over other fans on a sports forum who don't bring positivity to everything the mavs do.

You go into a barbershop and you'll get 10 different guys who disagree on something but no one ever really takes it personal when talking about sports

You listen to sports talk radio and the host will sit and listen to hundreds of callers who complain about their local teams.

On this particular site fans are so sensitive it's amusing at times. If you don't like what someone post just ignore them it's not that serious tbh

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Enough of this take. KP isn't involved because he can't do jack shit. He can't post up Batum, he can't take a wing off the dribble, he can't hit threes with a smaller player on him. KP is garbage.

This all the way. KP is MF garbage. Idc If he goes to another team and revives his career or not. We have a lot of not quite good enough and something needs to change. Donnie, Rick, draft choices, idk take your pick but KP isn't a not quite good enough. He would be not quite good enough if he were making 15mil a year.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah I will never understand the argument that seems to somehow get thrown out there that the mavs are a young team and need experience 1st to win playoff series.

I've always felt when you have guys like Kleber, THJ, DFS, Boban, KP, WCS, Powell and Richardson all closer to 30 than they are 20 there is no way in hell this team should keep being labeled young or inexperienced.

But somehow you'll get a few posters who will continue to walk down that path going into the playoffs back to back years.

I brought up both Phoenix and Atlanta in another thread as two teams who quickly passed Dallas this year because they surrounded their star players with pieces via trades or FA that their FO evaluated properly and sort of made bolder moves than the mavs.

For example a lot of fans here would of told you Chris Paul had a terrible contract and didn't fit the timeline of Luka so there would be no need to make an aggressive move like that to win now.

Does Paul fit the booker/Ayton timeline?

On top of that they added a big wing defender like Crowder just for these playoff moments


The Hawks going after Bogdanovic was a smart move and one that I thought for sure last offseason the mavs would go hard after considering they were allegedly in love with him and needed another ball handler but they were waiting on Giannis a bigger fish pipe dream again

I thought A.Gordon would make a terrific fit on this team because they have been needing a serious big wing defender for years. I can't help but think if the mavs really wanted Gordon they could have got it done draft night for sure way before the trade deadline and even at the deadline if they weren't so in love with certain players already on this roster like a package built around Brunson/Kleber I think Orlando would've listened depending on what else you were adding to the deal.

Seems like small moves centered around guys like Wright, Richardson or Redick is what they are only willing to do in order to not disrupt much of the top rotation. It honestly wouldn't shock me if they make a similar deal this offseason for someone like Dragic.

They believed it was more worth the risk to stay intact and hope that a big fish finally lands here.

I agree with a few others even if they win this series they can't let that cloud their vision at some point you got to fix this defensive issue with bigger wing and get you a true secondary ball handler things that have lingered for 3 years now.

Outstanding analysis! This Atlanta thing is driving me insane that their FO was able to pull together pieces like you mentioned in very short order. Cuban et al keep making the same mistake where they overestimate the talents of their current stable of nice loveable players e.g. Brunson, Maxi, DFS et al and ignore midlevel free agents that could actually fill needs all in the hope of landing the biggest of fish which will never happen. Operation dry powder part 2.

[Dallas41]

The belief was that the Clippers will fold late in games but these numbers are quite alarming for the Mavs


The Mavericks are struggling in the last period in this series, they’re shooting 34 percent from the floor and have been outscored by 29 points in the six games.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

The belief was that the Clippers will fold late in games but these numbers are quite alarming for the Mavs


The Mavericks are struggling in the last period in this series, they’re shooting 34 percent from the floor and have been outscored by 29 points in the six games.

We need another dude that can dribble and pass the frickin basketball (that isn’t a midget) in the worst way. We have no one besides Luka and to a much lesser extent THJ that can make a team pay. We may have to try Trey. He’s a little better on defense than Brunson. He can create separation and get his shot off. He just hasn’t played much.

I hope that they can get somebody legit for next season. Even Fournier would’ve helped, but ideally someone better.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

The belief was that the Clippers will fold late in games but these numbers are quite alarming for the Mavs


The Mavericks are struggling in the last period in this series, they’re shooting 34 percent from the floor and have been outscored by 29 points in the six games.

Yep I noticed it after game 4, and then thankfully the Mavs were up 15 in game 5, otherwise they lose that one too. And we saw how the fourth went in game 6.

Who chokes less moves on to the second round

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

We need another dude that can dribble and pass the frickin basketball (that isn’t a midget) in the worst way. We have no one besides Luka and to a much lesser extent THJ that can make a team pay. We may have to try Trey. He’s a little better on defense than Brunson. He can create separation and get his shot off. He just hasn’t played much.

I hope that they can get somebody legit for next season. Even Fournier would’ve helped, but ideally someone better.

I'm surprised Burke hasn't been used in this series. Rick must have forgotten how good he was in last year's series.
Wouldn't surprise me if Burke sees some minutes in this one if Brunson shows any signs of struggle.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Toxic?

Like a Republican appealing for 'civility'.

Like the Democratic Party in general