NBA Season 14-15: General Thread - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dirt_dobber · 01-04-2015, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

As for Josh smith... (it's still early but) HA HA HA

After just five games with Rockets, Josh Smith is removed from starting lineup
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...artner=ya5nbcs

tap2390 · 01-04-2015, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I'd hate to hear what you must think of Dirk, then.

Dirk is one of the greatest offensive players ever. He's efficient and probably the toughest matchup we'll see in our generation. He's also clutch in the playoffs and wants to take the last shot. I have no qualms about saying both Kobe and Lebron are better two-way players, but there's no player I'd rather have on the Mavs. This is partially sentimental and partially because he's also a much better person than Kobe or Lebron.

Edit: That you think me taking Kobe over Lebron implies something about how I feel about Dirk doesn't make a lot of sense.

spreedom · 01-04-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Dirk is one of the greatest offensive players ever. He's efficient and probably the toughest matchup we'll see in our generation. He's also clutch in the playoffs and wants to take the last shot. I have no qualms about saying both Kobe and Lebron are better two-way players, but there's no player I'd rather have on the Mavs. This is partially sentimental and partially because he's also a much better person than Kobe or Lebron.

Edit: That you think me taking Kobe over Lebron implies something about how I feel about Dirk doesn't make a lot of sense.

Taking Kobe over LeBron solely on the basis of "RINGZZZZZZ" (BTW, it's debatable whether Kobe was the best player on any of those championship teams) doesn't make any sense.

grndmstr_c · 01-04-2015, 02:23 PM

Kobe may be the most talented player I've ever seen. But I rank him no higher than 2nd best of his generation behind Duncan because he's spent entirely too much of his career tripping over his own ego, on and off the court. LeBron…he's a douche, but I think you probably have to go back at least to prime Shaq to find somebody who could match him at his best.

sefant77 · 01-04-2015, 09:34 PM

Epic fail...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/sp...ightmares.html

jthig32 · 01-04-2015, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Taking Kobe over LeBron solely on the basis of "RINGZZZZZZ" (BTW, it's debatable whether Kobe was the best player on any of those championship teams) doesn't make any sense.

I'm not sure it's real debatable on the last two. Kobe was still pretty freaking awesome in 09 and 2010.

Agree with GMC that Kobe vs Lebron is a debate for 2nd best behind Duncan.

spreedom · 01-04-2015, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not sure it's real debatable on the last two. Kobe was still pretty freaking awesome in 09 and 2010.

Agree with GMC that Kobe vs Lebron is a debate for 2nd best behind Duncan.

Kobe was great, but I think Pau was better back then. Especially in the Finals, when Kobe was chucking up numerous <40% shooting nights.

jthig32 · 01-04-2015, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Kobe was great, but I think Pau was better back then. Especially in the Finals, when Kobe was chucking up numerous <40% shooting nights.

I dunno. Gasol was great, especially in 2010. But you're still talking about Kobe being the focal point of the defense and the primary creator and ball handler. You have to be careful how much credit you give to the complimentary player in that situation.

spreedom · 01-04-2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I dunno. Gasol was great, especially in 2010. But you're still talking about Kobe being the focal point of the defense and the primary creator and ball handler. You have to be careful how much credit you give to the complimentary player in that situation.

The complementary player flat-out carried the team in consecutive Finals appearances... Kobe was the focal point in the offense in that he was the primary scoring option, but starting in about 2008 he started shooting his teams out or more games than he shot them back into. I honestly think his prime ended like nine years ago.

Just the fact that he occasionally goes on these 3-4 game runs where he totally changes his style of play and flirts with triple doubles (in games where the team looks way better than his nights gunning for 30) tells me all I need to know about him. His career has basically been a vanity project since the Mavs destroyed the Lakers in the 2nd round in 2011.

Kobe's the ultimate "good from far, far from good" player IMO, and he's been that way for at least five years.

tap2390 · 01-05-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

The complementary player flat-out carried the team in consecutive Finals appearances... Kobe was the focal point in the offense in that he was the primary scoring option, but starting in about 2008 he started shooting his teams out or more games than he shot them back into. I honestly think his prime ended like nine years ago.

Just the fact that he occasionally goes on these 3-4 game runs where he totally changes his style of play and flirts with triple doubles (in games where the team looks way better than his nights gunning for 30) tells me all I need to know about him. His career has basically been a vanity project since the Mavs destroyed the Lakers in the 2nd round in 2011.

Kobe's the ultimate "good from far, far from good" player IMO, and he's been that way for at least five years.

Do you see why this argument isn't coherent? If he started shooting them out of games how did they win the 2010 Finals with Kobe averaging 10 more ppg than Gasol?

Kobe doesn't win that series without Gasol, but the same could be said for any number of scenarios. Let's not forget what Gasol did without Kobe (got swept by us every year, then we'd lose to the Kings).

P.S. I agree with everyone who says Duncan > Kobe & Lebron by the way.

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Do you see why this argument isn't coherent? If he started shooting them out of games how did they win the 2010 Finals with Kobe averaging 10 more ppg than Gasol?

Kobe doesn't win that series without Gasol, but the same could be said for any number of scenarios. Let's not forget what Gasol did without Kobe (got swept by us every year, then we'd lose to the Kings).

P.S. I agree with everyone who says Duncan > Kobe & Lebron by the way.

Kobe shot 40% from the field and less than 32% from three and had exactly as many turnovers as assists. The Lakers won despite him leading the team in scoring. No team has ever won the Finals with their lead scorer playing so inefficiently... that Finals was an anomaly. Gasol was the best player on that team.

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 09:25 AM

Gasol was the clear Finals MVP 2010....even most of Lakers fan admit this. Downgrade Gasol to an average PF and Kobe not even sniff on the ring...

jthig32 · 01-05-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Gasol was the clear Finals MVP 2010....even most of Lakers fan admit this. Downgrade Gasol to an average PF and Kobe not even sniff on the ring...

Being the Finals MVP doesn't make you the MVP of the whole playoffs. Bryant was pretty damn good leading up to the Finals. The idea that the Lakers won in spite of Kobe that year is pretty far fetched.

jthig32 · 01-05-2015, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

The complementary player flat-out carried the team in consecutive Finals appearances... Kobe was the focal point in the offense in that he was the primary scoring option, but starting in about 2008 he started shooting his teams out or more games than he shot them back into. I honestly think his prime ended like nine years ago.

Just the fact that he occasionally goes on these 3-4 game runs where he totally changes his style of play and flirts with triple doubles (in games where the team looks way better than his nights gunning for 30) tells me all I need to know about him. His career has basically been a vanity project since the Mavs destroyed the Lakers in the 2nd round in 2011.

Kobe's the ultimate "good from far, far from good" player IMO, and he's been that way for at least five years.

What you're saying rings much more true post-2011 than it does for the 2009 and 2010 championship seasons.

tap2390 · 01-05-2015, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Kobe shot 40% from the field and less than 32% from three and had exactly as many turnovers as assists. The Lakers won despite him leading the team in scoring. No team has ever won the Finals with their lead scorer playing so inefficiently... that Finals was an anomaly. Gasol was the best player on that team.

You fail to mention the whole team shot about 40% in one of the most defense-orientated finals series ever. You also fail to mention Kobe's injuries that playoff run including having his knee drained.

It makes sense a post/ mid-range PF would be more efficient than a SG. They aren't asked to create off the dribble. Gasol especially usually receives the ball on the low block.

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

You fail to mention the whole team shot about 40% in one of the most defense-orientated finals series ever. You also fail to mention Kobe's injuries that playoff run including having his knee drained.

It makes sense a post/ mid-range PF would be more efficient than a SG. They aren't asked to create off the dribble. Gasol especially usually receives the ball on the low block.

That doesn't excuse Kobe having a usage rate approaching 40%. That means that not only was he horribly inefficient (like he is today) but he was also shooting way too much (like today!). And he's been a miserably lazy team/off-the-ball defender since at least 2008. The dude has been coasting off his resume for a decade.

Edit: I'm bored with this topic and don't want to extend it at all. I think your point is well-stated and we can just agree to disagree.

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 07:22 PM

On an unrelated note, does any NBA player have a lower basketball IQ than Dion Waiters? Holy shit that guy is a chucker.

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

On an unrelated note, does any NBA player have a lower basketball IQ than Dion Waiters? Holy shit that guy is a chucker.

Speak of the devil... three-team trade pending:

OKC gets Dion Waiters (LOL)
Knicks get Reggie Jackson(!)
Cavs get JR Smith (LOL) and Iman Shumpert

OKC absolutely giving Reggie away... I hate Waiters' game. Great-looking trade for the Knicks though.

bunkmoreland · 01-05-2015, 08:10 PM

OKC managing to get fleeced by two teams in one deal. Wow.
Giving away the best player in the deal and getting back the worst.

EricaLubarsky · 01-05-2015, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Speak of the devil... three-team trade pending:

OKC gets Dion Waiters (LOL)
Knicks get Reggie Jackson(!)
Cavs get JR Smith (LOL) and Iman Shumpert

OKC absolutely giving Reggie away... I hate Waiters' game. Great-looking trade for the Knicks though.

Whoa. Jackson is a pimp. He just didn't want to play second fiddle and he was an @sshat in the lockerroom apparently. Still, I'd LOVE to have Jackson.

grndmstr_c · 01-05-2015, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Speak of the devil... three-team trade pending:

OKC gets Dion Waiters (LOL)
Knicks get Reggie Jackson(!)
Cavs get JR Smith (LOL) and Iman Shumpert

OKC absolutely giving Reggie away... I hate Waiters' game. Great-looking trade for the Knicks though.

OKC's front office is like the anti-Mavs. Great in the draft, but not a clue when it comes to trades and the amnesty provision.

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 08:40 PM

Reggie is expecting a huge payday next summer. Thunder being cheap as usual...they gave away Harden because of 3-4 million a year when they still had the amnesty for Perkins available...duh

BPo001 · 01-05-2015, 09:13 PM

Ken Berger: Reggie Jackson goes nowhere in this deal, sources say, so OKC poised to acquire Dion Waiters without giving up any significant assets. Twitter @KBergCBS - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.JPZ68YBb.dpuf

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 09:35 PM

OKC sending a future 1st to the Cavs

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Reggie is expecting a huge payday next summer. Thunder being cheap as usual...they gave away Harden because of 3-4 million a year when they still had the amnesty for Perkins available...duh

The Thunder really ought to be able to afford Jackson this summer. Perk, mercifully, finally comes off of their books, and even if you overpay Jackson at like $12M, that's going to be a bargain if you can make it through next season before the salary cap skyrockets.

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 10:17 PM

Harden is such a joke of a "superstar" - the moment he doesnt get the cheap whistles...he vanish

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Harden is such a joke of a "superstar" - the moment he doesnt get the cheap whistles...he vanish

https://vine.co/v/Od0JvLnLthx

Melonhead · 01-05-2015, 10:50 PM

Im shaking my head at the revisionist history clutchfans are doing on their forum. There is a thread about how much better their offense was when CP was there. Of course everyone is commenting things like "duh" or "of course" or "that was apparent last year when he missed games, the offense died". Calling Ariza "brick" Ariza. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA talking so much shit in the offseason about Ariza being a better fit anyway. They want to trade Howard. Glorious.

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

https://vine.co/v/Od0JvLnLthx

Its sad/amazing how he is in full acting modus the second Butler touches the ball...

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Im shaking my head at the revisionist history clutchfans are doing on their forum. There is a thread about how much better their offense was when CP was there. Of course everyone is commenting things like "duh" or "of course" or "that was apparent last year when he missed games, the offense died". Calling Ariza "brick" Ariza. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA talking so much shit in the offseason about Ariza being a better fit anyway. They want to trade Howard. Glorious.

ClutchFans is, for the most part, the worst YouTube comments but in basketball forum form.

Melonhead · 01-05-2015, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

ClutchFans is, for the most part, the worst YouTube comments but in basketball forum form.

I always wonder why there arent more Mavs fans that post on here, but I'd never want it to be in such volume as Clutchfans is. So many bad posters there.

spreedom · 01-05-2015, 11:30 PM

The full, official trade:

Cleveland gets Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, OKC's 2015 lottery-protected 1st (if OKC makes the playoffs, Cavs get the pick)
OKC gets Dion Waiters
New York gets Lou Amundson (waived), Alex Kirk (waived), Lance Thomas, future 2nd-round pick from Cavs, and two trade exceptions ($5.9M from JR, $2.6M from Shumpert) and $20M in cap/luxury tax savings.

Definitely hoping the next domino to drop here is that Amar'e Stoudemire (or, for some crazy reason, Cole Aldrich) is waived so the Mavs can add him.

EricaLubarsky · 01-06-2015, 12:02 AM

Actually really like that for NYK and Cleveland.

NYK ditches the worst teammate/player in the NBA in Smith and picks up a lot of cap relief for a team that is in full rebuild/freefall.

Cleveland gets Shumpert, who may be a top-5 defensive guard in the league and a pick for the dumbest guard in the NBA.

OKC? I have no idea why they did it unless they think they can coach the dumb out of Waiters.

spreedom · 01-06-2015, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Actually really like that for NYK and Cleveland.

NYK ditches the worst teammate/player in the NBA in Smith and picks up a lot of cap relief for a team that is in full rebuild/freefall.

Cleveland gets Shumpert, who may be a top-5 defensive guard in the league and a pick for the dumbest guard in the NBA.

OKC? I have no idea why they did it unless they think they can coach the dumb out of Waiters.

Apparently OKC's reasoning is that with all of the young guys on the roster, they didn't feel like they had room to add another rookie, and Waiters was the best value they could get from an early-20s type of pick. Makes sense, but I do think Waiters (at least up to this point) is one of the worst players in the NBA. If OKC can get his head right (LOL Scotty Brooks) that's probably a good trade for them.

tap2390 · 01-06-2015, 09:20 AM

IMO Knicks are clear winners. Reggie Jackson & Melo is not a bad place to start. Shumpert has his redeeming qualities (D) but is still one of the dumbest players I've ever seen with the ball. JR Smith can dunk occasionally.

Cavs got will make the most of Shumpert, turning him into strictly a defender and spot up guy. They'll prob let Smith languish on the bench.

I have no idea what the hell the Thunder are doing. I'm guessing the thinking is Westbrook/Waiters is more palatable then Westbrook and a short PG, and that they wouldn't be able to sign Jackson, but they should have signed-and-traded Jackson this offseason. To give up a pick is inexcusable. Durant is going to bolt the first chance he gets.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-06-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO Knicks are clear winners. Reggie Jackson & Melo is not a bad place to start. Shumpert has his redeeming qualities (D) but is still one of the dumbest players I've ever seen with the ball. JR Smith can dunk occasionally.

Cavs got will make the most of Shumpert, turning him into strictly a defender and spot up guy. They'll prob let Smith languish on the bench.

I have no idea what the hell the Thunder are doing. I'm guessing the thinking is Westbrook/Waiters is more palatable then Westbrook and a short PG, and that they wouldn't be able to sign Jackson, but they should have signed-and-traded Jackson this offseason. To give up a pick is inexcusable. Durant is going to bolt the first chance he gets.

Reggie Jackson isn't part of the trade unless I missed something.

tap2390 · 01-06-2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Reggie Jackson isn't part of the trade unless I missed something.

Ahh you're right! I combined the initial reports and the corrected reports lol. Thanks.

EricaLubarsky · 01-06-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO Knicks are clear winners. Reggie Jackson & Melo is not a bad place to start. Shumpert has his redeeming qualities (D) but is still one of the dumbest players I've ever seen with the ball. JR Smith can dunk occasionally.

Cavs got will make the most of Shumpert, turning him into strictly a defender and spot up guy. They'll prob let Smith languish on the bench.

I have no idea what the hell the Thunder are doing. I'm guessing the thinking is Westbrook/Waiters is more palatable then Westbrook and a short PG, and that they wouldn't be able to sign Jackson, but they should have signed-and-traded Jackson this offseason. To give up a pick is inexcusable. Durant is going to bolt the first chance he gets.

NYK didn't get Reggie Jackson

GhostFace · 01-06-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

NYK didn't get Reggie Jackson

A shame. I'm all for the Thunder declining honestly.

TripleDipping · 01-06-2015, 01:55 PM

I'm interested to see how JR Smith turns out in Cleveland. I hope he gets playing time 'cuz if Lebron is pissed at the state of the Cavs now, wait until he teams up with that knucklehead.