Dallas @ Hawks GameDay Thread

[dude1394]

Ouch Jason Terry 4 assists, 6 turnovers. Who was griping about armstrong playing??

[Bayliss]

Ouch Jason Terry 4 assists, 6 turnovers. Who was griping about armstrong playing??

But half of those assists came in the 4th quarter when he was trying to "spark" the Mavs. Jason Terry is not the reason why the Mavs lost. And btw, Darrell Armstrong after sitting for two games played all of the minutes as the backup 2. What does that prove? Devin Harris wasn't having a horrible game when he played in the first so why bench him the rest of the game? Why not stick to what worked the last two games? Why is it that when Dampier went to the bench, Nellie went to small ball? Why is it that Nellie believes Marquis Daniels can an fd'n point guard?

Those questions caused more of the loss than Terry's 6 turnovers.

[Simon2]

Doesn't matter what his stats were. The he needs to play and Harris should be getting the backup minutes. Armstrong only comes in if Terry and Harris are on stretchers. Why? He isn't the future of the team. Terry and Harris are.

Originally posted by: dude1394
Ouch Jason Terry 4 assists, 6 turnovers. Who was griping about armstrong playing??

[dude1394]

Why are you guys so dogmatic. If a guy comes in and stinks it up, why do you continue to let him play? I dont' get it. Like Jason Terry is an all-star point guard or something that will snap out of it.

I'm not saying that Jason Terry is the "reason" that the mavs lost, but it's just as valid as the dogmatic ripping of nellie for rotation? So the "rotation" is the reason that the mavs got their rear ends handed to them by the hawks for goodness sakes.

You are a coach, and your team is out there scratching their rear ends instead of competing. I guess you can just let 'em lose by 30 or you try to shake them up. I agree that nellie should use a "set lineup" but it's insane when that set lineup is getting it's read end handed to it.

So "it doesn't matter what his stats are". Well then to hell with winning this year, just play harris for 42 minutes. Sorry, I don't enjoy watching a permanent rebuiliding team, nor should dirk/finley and the rest of the guys. 24 turnovers, sheesh. 6 by our "starting" point guard.

[Turkey]

When will you guys ever get it.
We were never a good team.
2002-2003 was just a fluke.
We shot a high percentage of 3's and lived by it.
It was just a fluke.
It was just a fluke.
It was just a fluke.

[dude1394]

Turkey, quit being a turkey. We shot a lot of 3's but we also fast-breaked our rear off, out-assisited the other team, out turnover'ed the other team and played good enough defense.

SCOREBOARD.

[Simon2]

Dude. What I'm saying is find your point guard and stick with him. You think Armstrong can lead the Mavs to the ring? Hell no. He can't shoot himself out of a barrel. Harris? He isn't Magic that for sure. Maybe someday but not today. Logically, the one who has the best chance to brign the Mavs to the finals is Terry. Why is Nellie screwing around with who is the starting pg. My personal choice is Terry because he's the best of what the Mavs had. If Terry is having a bad night, let him play because all players will have a bad night. You can't compare Terry, Harris and Armstrong. Harris is a rookie and Armstrong is old and can't shoot. Give Terry a chance to shine. So what if Terry had 6 turnovers last night? You can't expect a guy to play perfectly every night. Especially if he isn't being given a set time or rotation. It really hard for a pg to play like that. How can a pg be the court general if he doesn't even know when he's coming in? He isn't like Steve Nash who will not turn the ball over. So you have to live with it. The guy who doesn't turn the ball over is with the Suns now. We can't cry over spilt milk.

Originally posted by: dude1394
Why are you guys so dogmatic. If a guy comes in and stinks it up, why do you continue to let him play? I dont' get it. Like Jason Terry is an all-star point guard or something that will snap out of it.

I'm not saying that Jason Terry is the "reason" that the mavs lost, but it's just as valid as the dogmatic ripping of nellie for rotation? So the "rotation" is the reason that the mavs got their rear ends handed to them by the hawks for goodness sakes.

You are a coach, and your team is out there scratching their rear ends instead of competing. I guess you can just let 'em lose by 30 or you try to shake them up. I agree that nellie should use a "set lineup" but it's insane when that set lineup is getting it's read end handed to it.

So "it doesn't matter what his stats are". Well then to hell with winning this year, just play harris for 42 minutes. Sorry, I don't enjoy watching a permanent rebuiliding team, nor should dirk/finley and the rest of the guys. 24 turnovers, sheesh. 6 by our "starting" point guard.

[dude1394]

Well I think you have to find him first don't you? Here is what I expect.

1. Terry is a 6 year veteran who obviously is used to playing like stevie franchise. Shoot first (semi-point guard). He's not pushing the ball and not getting it done.
2. Harris is a rookie and I expect him to make mistakes.

I don't expect a guy to play perfectly but when dirk is stinking it up, nellie yanks him. If terry is stinking it up (and 4 assists/6 to's for your point guard IS stinking it up) he gets yanked as well. All nellie can do is show displeasure by not playing guys. He can yell at them until the cows come home, but that only works in football and then only for 1 or 2 seasons.

Guys on a TEAM have to earn playing time. Terry is inconsistent at the point, harris is inconsistent at the point, why do you expect consistency in their playing time.

Now if you are griping about nellie yanking them too quickly, I agree with that, that is counterproductive. But what I saw of terry last night was the same old slow-it-down game from him. He just HAS to be more aggressive and more assertive than that in our offense. He either WILL do that or nellie will sit his rear end down. Harris will then take his minutes and if he can't get it done, then armstrong will get their mintues.

They have responsiblities, just like damp/dirk/fin do. They are NOT getting it done, it's painfully obvious.

[dude1394]

Also terry started last night didn't he? Where is this o woe is terry because he doesn't know when he will get in. He played one of his best games against the knicks and then (imo) reverted to form against his old team.

Now again, I DO NOT blame last night on terry, he was one of many,many poor performances last night.

I'm also starting to think that if josh howard doesn't bring it every night, this team loses. I'll have to go check on those numbers. But if he's not playing well then this team looks different.

[Simon2]

Nellie never yanks Dirk for stinking it up. For that matter, he doesn't pull Fin or Stack even though they are going 2-10 or something like that.

You don't think Terry has earned his playing time? Look at his stats:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 ATL 82 77 37.7 .436 .395 .846 .50 2.80 3.30 4.9 1.27 .15 2.91 2.50 19.7
01-02 ATL 78 78 38.0 .430 .387 .835 .50 2.90 3.50 5.7 1.85 .17 2.32 2.00 19.3
02-03 ATL 81 81 38.0 .428 .371 .887 .50 3.00 3.40 7.4 1.56 .17 3.07 2.20 17.2
03-04 ATL 81 78 37.3 .417 .347 .827 .60 3.50 4.10 5.4 1.53 .20 2.83 2.40 16.8
04-05 DAL 26 3 24.4 .495 .417 .767 .50 1.80 2.30 3.6 1.46 .12 1.58 1.70 9.5

Look at Nash's stats
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 DAL 70 70 34.1 .487 .406 .895 .70 2.50 3.20 7.3 1.03 .07 2.93 2.30 15.6
01-02 DAL 82 82 34.6 .483 .455 .887 .60 2.50 3.10 7.7 .65 .05 2.79 2.00 17.9
02-03 DAL 82 82 33.1 .465 .413 .909 .80 2.10 2.90 7.3 1.04 .07 2.34 1.60 17.7
03-04 DAL 78 78 33.5 .470 .405 .916 .80 2.20 3.00 8.8 .86 .10 2.68 1.80 14.5
04-05 PHO 25 25 34.2 .532 .400 .892 .60 2.80 3.40 11.0 1.04 .00 3.24 2.20 15.7

In 02-03, he had more assists than Nash by .1. Scoring is comparable. The stats are similar so why jack around with this guy's head?

I'd say his stats in Atlanta already earned him the starting position and playing time. No need to compete with a rookie or a has-been. I've seen Terry push the ball. He doesn't do it like Nash but nobody pushes the ball like Nash. Same argument as no one plays the inside game like Shaq or Duncan. The bottom line is the Mavs don't have Nash, Shaq or Duncan and it been an excuse for too long now. The Mavs have 3 pg and 3 centers and Nellie has ended several games now with no pg and no center. Why? I think a player becomes consistent with consistent playing time. Give him more leeway. If Nellie would just hand over the reigns to Terry, he will flourish and we will forget about Nash. Everyone will be saying that Terry is a much better defender. Right now, he can't show his stuff because he's playing 13 mins less than what he's used to. If Nellie can give the reigns to Avery on an important game like SA, he can definitely spare a few games for Terry to get used to the system. By the way, I thought Nellie's handing over the reigns to Avery in the SA game was BS.

Originally posted by: dude1394
Well I think you have to find him first don't you? Here is what I expect.

1. Terry is a 6 year veteran who obviously is used to playing like stevie franchise. Shoot first (semi-point guard). He's not pushing the ball and not getting it done.
2. Harris is a rookie and I expect him to make mistakes.

I don't expect a guy to play perfectly but when dirk is stinking it up, nellie yanks him. If terry is stinking it up (and 4 assists/6 to's for your point guard IS stinking it up) he gets yanked as well. All nellie can do is show displeasure by not playing guys. He can yell at them until the cows come home, but that only works in football and then only for 1 or 2 seasons.

Guys on a TEAM have to earn playing time. Terry is inconsistent at the point, harris is inconsistent at the point, why do you expect consistency in their playing time.

Now if you are griping about nellie yanking them too quickly, I agree with that, that is counterproductive. But what I saw of terry last night was the same old slow-it-down game from him. He just HAS to be more aggressive and more assertive than that in our offense. He either WILL do that or nellie will sit his rear end down. Harris will then take his minutes and if he can't get it done, then armstrong will get their mintues.

They have responsiblities, just like damp/dirk/fin do. They are NOT getting it done, it's painfully obvious.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Why are you guys so dogmatic. If a guy comes in and stinks it up, why do you continue to let him play? I dont' get it. Like Jason Terry is an all-star point guard or something that will snap out of it.

I'm not saying that Jason Terry is the "reason" that the mavs lost, but it's just as valid as the dogmatic ripping of nellie for rotation? So the "rotation" is the reason that the mavs got their rear ends handed to them by the hawks for goodness sakes.

You are a coach, and your team is out there scratching their rear ends instead of competing. I guess you can just let 'em lose by 30 or you try to shake them up. I agree that nellie should use a "set lineup" but it's insane when that set lineup is getting it's read end handed to it.

So "it doesn't matter what his stats are". Well then to hell with winning this year, just play harris for 42 minutes. Sorry, I don't enjoy watching a permanent rebuiliding team, nor should dirk/finley and the rest of the guys. 24 turnovers, sheesh. 6 by our "starting" point guard.

Word, brutha. Word.

Is it so hard to accept that currently Nellie is in the situation of trying to figure who the least of three evils is at the PG spot? Or four, if you count Daniels.

Oh my goodness, how different this team would look with a top-notch point guard. You know, the kind of guy who makes everyone around him better. The way I see it, everyone is suffering from our horrendous point guard play.

And we're going to get killed soon enough if we can't keep from turning the ball over. Why would there be any reason to believe that Terry's game last night is not indicative of his true ability?

[DallasFan1980]

Originally posted by: sike

no, both of us are making sense, one of us is a Boston homer who loves Walker and the other is trying his best to be objective...

excellent point, if your point is that sometimes people lie

ok

you, again are not really saying anything of substance....just what IS your point

thanks for totally proving my point

I have not "accsued" him of anything, using words like "accuse" in refering to my posts it makes you sound much more like a bias fan than an objective thinker

now your post reaches the height of its lunacy...if Walker would have even tried for a moment to do this he would have been gone so fast it would have made your Boston loving head spin

not so much [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Face the facts. Walker out played the entire Mavericks team last night. It is a fact. You are just going to have to get over that fact.

I am far from a Boston homer but unlike you I can admitt when a team out plays another. You are obviously blinded by your Mavericks homerism and you refuse to give credit where credit is due.
Basketball fans like you give the Mavericks fans a bad name. Not all of us Mavs fans feel the need to bully everyone in order to get them to agree with you.

The more you wrote above the more it proves me right because you don't know what you are talking about. You have no clue about how Boston was run pre Ainge and you are even more clueless about how it is working now but if you feel the need to make things up about situations you know nothing about to make yourself feel better knock youself out.

Dallas deserved to lose last night because they thought they were better then they were because they were playing the Hawks. Our team is still soft and will never get anywhere without playing defense and catering to Dirk wanting the ball.

[dude1394]

Now walker played a very good game last night...That however doesn't change the fact that he is vastly over-rated and not a very good basketball player.

[dude1394]

Dirk knows the score.

"We weren't ready to play," Nowitzki said. "Now we have to try to have a merry Christmas with this on our back. Maybe it's good to sit down and see that we have to play a lot harder than this. We all know we're not where we want to be. We've lost a lot of home games, and to lose one here is ridiculous.

"I don't know how good we can be or how good we are with outings like this."

[PubaNWO]

Originally posted by: sike

the second you said, "we" I realized this conversation was going nowhere [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Why can't I say "we"?

I believe fans are apart of the team.

If you don't feel that way about your Mavericks, that's your business.

[PubaNWO]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
You said this:

If the home losses speak volumes about this current Mav team than what in the hell does our road record speak? And the DA acquistion was just insurance. Any team that wouldn't pull a 2nd rounder/Dickau for DA move is either a liar or an idiot.

The road wins against the lesser teams speak that the Mavericks did what they should have done. But they did not do that against the Hawks, and that's a bad sign.

Also when I talk about the home losses, that should be the biggest concern. Mavs have always been great at home. They feed off the crowd. But I can see that many of the Mavs fans are unsure of themselves now that Nash is gone. The team is also unsure of themselves even at home.


Is Finley still the leader of the Mavericks or has Dirk taken charge of that role? Somebody better take charge and real soon.


And about that idiot crack for thinking poorly on the Darrell Armstrong trade??

I thought you guys wanted to get YOUNGER at the point guard???? If you wanted an older vet you could have just signed Nash back. Talk about an illogical trade...stunting Harris' growth and development.

ACtually having Nellie as your coach will stunt your growth no matter what in some form.

[PubaNWO]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Now walker played a very good game last night...That however doesn't change the fact that he is vastly over-rated and not a very good basketball player.

Who pray tell vastly over-rates Walker??

I say it's 50/50. Half of everyone hates Walker's game, the other half really love his game.

It's tough to over-rate a player with those odds.

Now if you want to talk about Vince Carter or Nascar?? Yup, OVERATED!!!

Also, Walker is a very good basketball player with a few major flaws in his game, but hey, no one is perfect. He brings more positives to the table when all is said and done. Like for instance, Walker is way better and vastly superior to Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse brings more negatives to the table than positives. Stackhouse is like Glenn Robinson. If you guys can get rid of Stackhouse....Daniels will relax more and he'll play much better. Quise is obviously feeling the pressure of the big contract he signed, but knowing Stack is around.....probably makes Quise more nervous.

[PubaNWO]

Sike, I still don't understand why you had to start this up and attack Walker.

Because you brought the thing up...maybe that's why someone thought you were bitter or something.

You can just let it go. That Maverick team is long gone. And you can thank Cuban and the Mavs front office for that season and this current season too.


The thing is, if the Mavericks had done their job and won the freaking game.....Walker and the Hawks would be just another Maverick victim. But because your Mavericks lost and allowed Walker to "show the great things he can do when winning doesn't matter"......well then that's the messy bed the Mavericks made, not Walker.

It's blantantly obvious that Walker was doing all those great things in an effort to WIN.....so winning does matter to Walker.

With an effort the Mavericks gave against the Hawks....seemed like winning did not matter to the Mavericks.

[PubaNWO]

I agree with Simon that Jason Terry is your best bet at PG. But he's not a real PG and he's serious downgrade from Nash.

Truthfully, Steve Nash was the Mavericks best bet for winning an NBA championship. Not getting to the Finals was not Nash's fault. Nash did everything he could.

Why did you guys get rid of Nash?? I still can't believe it.

Ok so you guys were not so enamored with Walker's game...I can believe that, even I, a Walker homer can see that there was something wrong with Walker and the Mavs.

But Nash and the Mavs??? That doesn't translate to wrong, in my opinion.

Cuban's got a ton of money. Don't tell me it was because of the money.

I can buy the health arguement, but Nash has never really ever been that injured....sure he gets tired, who doesn't?

Back to the money, it can't be about the money...because reason number 1.....you guys got rid of Raef's contract....so there should have been money to spend on Nash.

Dampier is reason number 2. Why pay him?

Why pay Raef and why pay Dampier....but not Nash???

I don't get it.

Maybe Cuban felt that having Daniels was going to be enough insurance or something. I dunno. I don't get why Nash is a Phoenix Sun right now. Steve should have been a Maverick for life.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: PubaNWO

Who pray tell vastly over-rates Walker??

I say it's 50/50. Half of everyone hates Walker's game, the other half really love his game.

It's tough to over-rate a player with those odds.

Now if you want to talk about Vince Carter or Nascar?? Yup, OVERATED!!!

Also, Walker is a very good basketball player with a few major flaws in his game, but hey, no one is perfect. He brings more positives to the table when all is said and done. Like for instance, Walker is way better and vastly superior to Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse brings more negatives to the table than positives. Stackhouse is like Glenn Robinson. If you guys can get rid of Stackhouse....Daniels will relax more and he'll play much better. Quise is obviously feeling the pressure of the big contract he signed, but knowing Stack is around.....probably makes Quise more nervous.

Well I disagree.. I think walker brings more negatives than positives, in fact you almost agree with the statement of a "few major flaws". I liked the guy in dallas because for all of his basketball faults he is a hard worker and a pretty good rebounder. But his inability to hit ft's, his clunking up 3pt's makes him a detriment in my mind.

If I were walkers personal coach I would work on the following:
1. Somehow, somehow get him to at leat 70% ft shooting. That would allow him to play inside (which he's quite good at doing) and draw fouls instead of trying like heck to avoid them.
2. Get him off that3pt line... He's terrible at it.
3. Continue working low-post and 12foot in...

He has the ability to get almost anywhere with the ball, but his inability to hit ft's severely limits his effectiveness.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: PubaNWO
I agree with Simon that Jason Terry is your best bet at PG. But he's not a real PG and he's serious downgrade from Nash.

Truthfully, Steve Nash was the Mavericks best bet for winning an NBA championship. Not getting to the Finals was not Nash's fault. Nash did everything he could.

Why did you guys get rid of Nash?? I still can't believe it.

Ok so you guys were not so enamored with Walker's game...I can believe that, even I, a Walker homer can see that there was something wrong with Walker and the Mavs.

But Nash and the Mavs??? That doesn't translate to wrong, in my opinion.

Cuban's got a ton of money. Don't tell me it was because of the money.

I can buy the health arguement, but Nash has never really ever been that injured....sure he gets tired, who doesn't?

Back to the money, it can't be about the money...because reason number 1.....you guys got rid of Raef's contract....so there should have been money to spend on Nash.

Dampier is reason number 2. Why pay him?

Why pay Raef and why pay Dampier....but not Nash???

I don't get it.

Maybe Cuban felt that having Daniels was going to be enough insurance or something. I dunno. I don't get why Nash is a Phoenix Sun right now. Steve should have been a Maverick for life.

I dunno....Mystery to me.

[endtroducing]

I saw this shit from the sixth row. I have never been more embarrassed in my entire life than when I walked out of Philips Arena with my Mavs jersey on as Josh Childress hits a putback slam.

when Bradley was in the game, we played 10 times better...but that doesn't fix anything. Make a trade, get Abdur-Rahim, get Van Exel, get someone that has a fucking KILLER INSTINCT that won't lay down and let the fucking ATLANTA HAWKS beat them by double digits. I'm sick of this shit...we're the softest team in the NBA. KEVIN WILLIS SCORED IN DOUBLE DIGITS. KEVIN WILLIS. this has to be fixed, or we WON'T make the playoffs. Maybe Kerr was right.

[chumdawg]

Now that's what I call a Hot Sports Opinion! [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

[vinnieponte]

I must admit, you have a good point in the last post. We can't expect to make it into the playoffs with such inconsisent playing such as we have had lately. Blow out Hawks, Blow out Knicks, Then it's like we don't show up after such a great run. Secondly we can't even beat our most fierce competition like the spurs, suns, sonics, shall I continue? And not to mention we get beat by the golden state warriors, whats next the hornets? Something needs to happen.

[sike]

Originally posted by: DallasFan1980
Face the facts. Walker out played the entire Mavericks team last night. It is a fact. You are just going to have to get over that fact.

quite misrepresenting my comments, I never said anything about the game specific...my comments were directed at Walker the player not one single game

I am far from a Boston homer but unlike you I can admitt when a team out plays another.

once again you are changing the discussion to fit your lack of valid argumentation...I if you want to discuss anything with me, please refrain from twisting my words[/quote]
You are obviously blinded by your Mavericks homerism and you refuse to give credit where credit is due.

you obviously live in a fantasy world

Basketball fans like you give the Mavericks fans a bad name. Not all of us Mavs fans feel the need to bully everyone in order to get them to agree with you.

All I have done is addressed your comments, if you take that as being a bully you may need to develop some thicker skin, as for me being a homer or refusing to give credit to whom it is due that is simply an untrue statement

The more you wrote above the more it proves me right because you don't know what you are talking about. You have no clue about how Boston was run pre Ainge and you are even more clueless about how it is working now but if you feel the need to make things up about situations you know nothing about to make yourself feel better knock youself out.

you are making little to no sense. What did I say that was GM specific?

Dallas deserved to lose last night because they thought they were better then they were because they were playing the Hawks. Our team is still soft and will never get anywhere without playing defense and catering to Dirk wanting the ball.

ok, this fairly onesided conversation is over unless you wish to carry on

[sike]

Originally posted by: PubaNWO
Sike, I still don't understand why you had to start this up and attack Walker.

Because you brought the thing up...maybe that's why someone thought you were bitter or something.

You can just let it go. That Maverick team is long gone. And you can thank Cuban and the Mavs front office for that season and this current season too.


The thing is, if the Mavericks had done their job and won the freaking game.....Walker and the Hawks would be just another Maverick victim. But because your Mavericks lost and allowed Walker to "show the great things he can do when winning doesn't matter"......well then that's the messy bed the Mavericks made, not Walker.

It's blantantly obvious that Walker was doing all those great things in an effort to WIN.....so winning does matter to Walker.

With an effort the Mavericks gave against the Hawks....seemed like winning did not matter to the Mavericks.

Puba, I appreciate the tact with which you handle our little misunderstanding...some find tact a rare item [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I in no way meant for this thread to turn into a smash Walk-fest, If you read my original posts I think it is clear that it was meant a passing comment at best. I do however feel that I have a pretty good handle on what type of player Walker is...a very talented guy who will never be the #1 option with a contending team...and Walker sees himself as a #1 type guy. My comment was meant to point out that IN THE LONG HUAL of an entire season, he can put up good numbers but that his team will not be a winner. I am not disagreeing with the fact that he played a good game and led his team to victory against the Mavs...but in the long run(and history proves this) a team with Walk as its #1 option will not go far. That is all, if you still don't understand my intentions, PM me.

I'm done with this dead topic.

[MightyToine]

Okay...I have to say something here :


Walker is the #1 option on the Hawks? Sort of. Now that it seems that the Rookies and Harrington have started to play better, it would make Walker more trusting of his teammates unlike when he was in boston. I noticed that the Team played consistently better when Walker was on the bench so if that's the case, I'd think about cutting down on Walker's minutes if I were the Hawks Coach. Walk could be effective in Limited minutes(and I don't mean the now-infamous 'I cannot give you anything in 18 minutes'...lol).

[dude1394]

MIghty Toine?? Is that you?

[DallasFan1980]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Now walker played a very good game last night...That however doesn't change the fact that he is vastly over-rated and not a very good basketball player.

So what does that make the Mavericks then? If we can't beat a player and team like him.

Your biased. PERIOD, You prove it every time you open your mouth.

[dude1394]

Biased about what? Basketball players?

[PubaNWO]

Jiri Welsch is a bad basketball player.