Nerlens Noel

[Murphy3]

Absolutely fine with Mejri as the backup..

[EricaLubarsky]

Teams that can offer Noel Max (estimated to be 25.8mill a year)
Denver - (Plumlee QO/RFA, Jokic)
Minnesota - (Anthony-Towns, Dieng, Pekovic)
Philadelphia - (Embiid, Okafor)
Brooklyn - (Lopez, Hamilton)
Phoenix - (Len QO/RFA, Chandler, Bender)
Indiana - (Turner, Jefferson)
Boston - (Olynyk, Zeller)
Sacramento - (Koufos, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere)

I'd say that Boston, Sacramento, and Brooklyn are going to be our biggest risks of offering big money. Maybe not max, but at least 15mil

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Teams that can offer Noel Max (estimated to be 25.8mill a year)
Denver - (Plumlee QO/RFA, Jokic)
Minnesota - (Anthony-Towns, Dieng, Pekovic)
Philadelphia - (Embiid, Okafor)
Brooklyn - (Lopez, Hamilton)
Phoenix - (Len QO/RFA, Chandler, Bender)
Indiana - (Turner, Jefferson)
Boston - (Olynyk, Zeller)
Sacramento - (Koufos, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere)

I'd say that Boston, Sacramento, and Brooklyn are going to be our biggest risks of offering big money. Maybe not max, but at least 15mil

Yeah, big difference between can and (possibly) will :

Den - their 2 bigs now seem to really mesh well ... zero need for another big money big
Min - KAT is their guy, should spend money on other positions for more team need
Phi - lol, yeah, no.
Bro - Lopez is their guy for one more year ... they need so much more than another big
Pho - Isn't Len their future big guy?
Ind - they will be rebuilding after PG leaves so who knows
Bos - possibly, but they need offense right now and are overloaded on defense
Sac - they don't really have a direction right now ... Buddy Hield??

I think Ind and Sac possibly but even then, I don't see them offering big money to an unknown Noel at this point. Given the public knowledge that the Mavs will match anything, I'm guessing there won't be another team forcing us to pay more than what we want.

[saclare]

I could see Phoenix and Boston as the most likely. If Len is the answer in Phoenix, that's understandable. He was playing very similar to Noel towards the end of last season and showed he should get more minutes. Boston could use an athletic, defensive minded center such as Noel to free up Horford to do more at PF. I wouldn't be surprised there. Sacramento may be possible, but with 3 bigs already, 2 of which are very young and promising, I don't see them crowding the minutes.

All in all, if we can lock up Noel for less than $20M/year, you call it a win.

[tap2390]

Anyone have buyer's remorse if Noel is earning $20 mill/ year?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Anyone have buyer's remorse if Noel is earning $20 mill/ year?

Maybe a better question:

What would be better

A) Noel gets offered 20mill a year. We match and pay him. Money probably wouldn't get spent elsewhere, but its a possibility. Might end up paying an injured player 20mill or 20 mill to a guy whose development has stalled and we're overpaying like Powell.

B) we fail to match. Lose three second rounders and our center spot looks like crap.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Maybe a better question:

What would be better

A) Noel gets offered 20mill a year. We match and pay him. Money probably wouldn't get spent elsewhere, but its a possibility. Might end up paying an injured player 20mill or 20 mill to a guy whose development has stalled and we're overpaying like Powell.

B) we fail to match. Lose three second rounders and our center spot looks like crap.

Ugh. I was trying to avoid thinking about the lose-lose scenario. We'll match and let's hope he develops.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Ugh. I was trying to avoid thinking about the lose-lose scenario. We'll match and let's hope he develops.

EL just Jedi mind-tricked your ass.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Anyone have buyer's remorse if Noel is earning $20 mill/ year?

Definitely buyer's remorse on Matthews yet it seems you have to pay players ridiculous contracts these days.

I think such things makes the D League far more important than it used to be. And structuring multi-year contracts on potentials from that talent pool so you don't have to pay them big bucks if they develop.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think such things makes the D League far more important than it used to be. And structuring multi-year contracts on potentials from that talent pool so you don't have to pay them big bucks if they develop.

Yep, searching for diamonds in the rough landed us Yogi, Mejri, Finney-Smith, Brussino, and Uthoff... We can bring all of those guys back on the cheap next season (or beyond) if we want to.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Anyone have buyer's remorse if Noel is earning $20 mill/ year?

You have a better idea for center?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You have a better idea for center?

And that's the real catch. Mavs have a horrible time trying to find a decent center. You don't just give up on a 22 year old lottery pick because of money.

Plus, I think Anderson is going to be better than people think. Would look at least reasonably bad to give him up for nothing.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You have a better idea for center?

One thing to think about is the draft too. Not suggesting anything but there are a few centers like Allen, Patton and Bam that could be options if we were to trade down for whatever reason.
If we can address other areas through trade or FA there is that slight possibility we could let him walk if someone offers him crazy money and our money might be better spent elsewhere.

None of that is likely though.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

One thing to think about is the draft too. Not suggesting anything but there are a few centers like Allen, Patton and Bam that could be options if we were to trade down for whatever reason.
If we can address other areas through trade or FA there is that slight possibility we could let him walk if someone offers him crazy money and our money might be better spent elsewhere.

None of that is likely though.

We have in our hands most likely the closest thing to Tyson Chandler(@23yo), and we would let him walk over an extra 5m a year and draft a center instead...draftee would not see the court this season so it doesnt address the center position so we'd be patchworking a center in FA again... And we'll still need to address the PG position in FA too.(no one would come after letting Noel walk)

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Definitely buyer's remorse on Matthews yet it seems you have to pay players ridiculous contracts these days.

And yet the Mavs could easily trade him in the summer. Expiring + 2nd rounder and he is gone.

So its not such a horrible contract because Wes still has his value as veteren glue guy etc

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And yet the Mavs could easily trade him in the summer. Expiring + 2nd rounder and he is gone.

So its not such a horrible contract because Wes still has his value as veteren glue guy etc

Nope, two more years unfortunately. His final year is a player option that I'd be shocked if he got out of. Guess stranger things have happen though.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

We have in our hands most likely the closest thing to Tyson Chandler(@23yo), and we would let him walk over an extra 5m a year and draft a center instead...draftee would not see the court this season so it doesnt address the center position so we'd be patchworking a center in FA again... And we'll still need to address the PG position in FA too.(no one would come after letting Noel walk)

Like I said, not suggesting it but that is another option on getting a center. I agree Noel is a keeper but if another Barnes situation happens to present itself and someone offers a max on Noel there could be other options for this team.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

EL just Jedi mind-tricked your ass.

That is the center you are looking for.

[hayth.james.g]

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl...12680_24051715

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl...12680_24051715

stopped reading after "writes Mike Fisher".

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

stopped reading after "writes Mike Fisher".

Yeah he's a clown.

I think we should let Noel test the market for himself. This is a concept I think the Patriots do really well (see their deals with McCourty/ Hightower). They allow their free agents to test the market and see what's out there for them before negotiating a deal. I think we can get Noel for less than the max, and it's a no-risk situation considering he's an RFA.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

With Fisher, you have to try and read through the cracks to get something of value.

I will say that it is pretty irrelevant whether multiple teams are willing to max out Noel. All it really takes is just one...which I think is possible.

It seems like every FA, some fans convince themselves that teams aren't willing to spend. Yet every summer in recent memory...they do.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Yeah he's a clown.

I think we should let Noel test the market for himself. This is a concept I think the Patriots do really well (see their deals with McCourty/ Hightower). They allow their free agents to test the market and see what's out there for them before negotiating a deal. I think we can get Noel for less than the max, and it's a no-risk situation considering he's an RFA.

This is so far from the nfl when it comes to contracts. NFL players rarely have control. NBA players have all the control. Its a players league. Lets not screw around and have him leave. One team will for sure offer max, and then the Mavs match.

[Bryan_Wilson]

To me it's pretty simple. If the Mavs traded for a RFA in his last year then that means we were willing to match any and all offers for him. Especially considering this is a market where Steven Adams got a 4year extension worth 100m. He got that extension after posting averages of 8pts/6.7rbs/1.1blk/.5 stls on 25mins. Noel last year for us was 8.5pts/6.8rbs/1.1blk/1stl on 22mins. He's the same age Adams was when he got that extension and Noel has a much much higher ceiling. Given that his age lines up with Barnes I think the Mavs are expecting him to get the max and anything less is gravy. I don't need “A source from another NBA team" to tell me that someone we have who is more talented than someone who just got a max extension will get a max offer. -_- ugh Fish.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl...12680_24051715

“I’m not allowed to talk about [negotiations] but all I can tell you is he’s one of a bunch of guys who came in, they all got together and said ‘Let’s go down to the practice facility and start working out together,'” Cuban said, per SportsDay. “So they’re down there now and so that’s exciting to see, and he’s part of that group.”

That's the important bit right there... Noel is developing his game with our players, preparing for his future. Sounds like he wants to be here, and we can offer him more money than anyone else, so you can pretty much pencil him in as our starting center next season.

Is he worth max? TBD. I don't care how the game evolves, there will always be a premium on bigs in the NBA. It is what it is... If Erick Dampier was worth 20% of the cap, then a budding talent like Nerlens Noel is probably worth 25%. At least the Mavs would have the opportunity to mold him into a player that can realize his potential, a la Barnes... And it looks like they're already putting the work in.

[EricaLubarsky]

UD, mostly on point but we don't need to pay more than other teams. He's an RFA, not UFA.

If he was a UFA, sure. But we just have to match the smaller contract that other teams can offer. Still max but shorter

[spreedom]

Personally, I'd rather lock him up for 5 years than risk some team throwing a 3-4 year max contract at him that includes a player option... Could lead to us losing him in two seasons.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If Cuban is willing to spend the money, then why wouldn't you? We all have to realize that the Mavs likely aren't going to be any good for at least the next two seasons. And Noel is part of the investment of youth. Who cares if the cap is taken up?

And I think I'm one of the few that isn't fully on board with paying Seth Curry big money, so I don't really care much if that eats into trying to keep him. Noel's potential>Curry's potential IMO.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

UD, mostly on point but we don't need to pay more than other teams. He's an RFA, not UFA.

If he was a UFA, sure. But we just have to match the smaller contract that other teams can offer. Still max but shorter

Well, we can pay him "more" if you take state income tax into account.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, we can pay him "more" if you take state income tax into account.

And no reason we shouldn't. This so often gets overlooked its wild.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

And no reason we shouldn't. This so often gets overlooked its wild.

Someone has done the math. Not sure if it was here or for the Cowboys/Rangers coverage I follow.

Between homes games and then another 4 at San Antonio and Houston, you're playing ~55% of your games at no state income tax. Then the Mavs are bound to play at Miami usually once a year.

Anyone have any in depth insight or study into this?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Someone has done the math. Not sure if it was here or for the Cowboys/Rangers coverage I follow.

Between homes games and then another 4 at San Antonio and Houston, you're playing ~55% of your games at no state income tax. Then the Mavs are bound to play at Miami usually once a year.

Anyone have any in depth insight or study into this?

This article: http://www.slamonline.com/nba/state-...yXP4yHB413Z.97

For others, such as LeBron James, paying state taxes is perhaps less important than going back home to play where you were born. After showcasing his skills in South Beach for four years and winning two Championships, King James decided to leave the warm weather and no tax state of Florida to take his talents back to Cleveland and play in his home state. Which, by the way, has a top tax rate of 5.39 percent.

With his current two-year contract worth almost $47 million, he is essentially paying roughly $2 million of tax dollars to play in front of his North East Ohio peeps. Most people if given the choice of living in Miami and saving millions of tax dollars or moving to Cleveland might have chosen differently.

And this one: http://fansided.com/2016/06/30/state...ncy-advantage/

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

This article: http://www.slamonline.com/nba/state-...yXP4yHB413Z.97

Awesome comment from that article ..

... NBA2K series is getting so realistic I cant wait for this tax detail to become a feature in 2K19?! O_o

[saclare]

Interesting. So it definitely makes a difference. But I'd assume that taxation is still well low on the totem pole of decision making for a free agent.

Are players paid per game, or per day/week/month? I think it is an interesting debate on how certain cities/states can charge a "duty tax" even if the game is played the next day or two (certainly more so if they're paid per game).

I also forgot about Memphis and Orlando in my earlier post.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by saclare

Interesting. So it definitely makes a difference. But I'd assume that taxation is still well low on the totem pole of decision making for a free agent.

Are players paid per game, or per day/week/month? I think it is an interesting debate on how certain cities/states can charge a "duty tax" even if the game is played the next day or two (certainly more so if they're paid per game).

I also forgot about Memphis and Orlando in my earlier post.

Pretty sure its by game(at least NFL is). Regardless, the tax issue has never helped the Mavs land a top free agent, and Ive never heard of a player choosing a destination based on taxes, so its all moot anyway.

[Underdog]

I mean, this dude is sticking around, right?

@NerlensNoel3: LET'S GOO !! It's Lit @Dennis4Smith welcome to the family !!

[sefant77]

He is playing in Dirks Heroes game too...he isnt going anywhere. He isnt stupid, he knows this is a perfect fit and place for him

[NeedlesKane]

Seeing him attend the Summer League, sitting next to Carlisle, reassures all of us. He's a Maverick for sure. It's just a matter of finalizing things.

[sefant77]

Hawks signing Dedmon...if Brooklyn doesnt do something stupid i see him signing tomorrow. Probably they settle to meet in Vegas for the signing

[EricaLubarsky]

https://twitter.com/nbasummerleague/...51073663864835