Chris Kaman to the Mavs

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

No, I think Kaman is a below average defensive center.

I find him to be acceptably average. Not stunningly good or bad.

When I've watched him, which admittedly hasn't been much since he's been in NO, I remember thinking that he made up for lack of amazing athleticism with size and effort.

Nothing great, mind you....but I'd have him at average.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Obviously, we'll have to see how the season plays out.

Everyone needs to remember this point. Its all just a crapshoot until we see how the pieces fit.

[markus1234]

Should be so fun to bump this thread next year.

Wood is a 2/10 on offense and a 4/10 on defense (slow).
Kaman is a 8/10 on offense and a 5/10 on defense (moves better than Wood).

10/10 = Dwight

See you in February.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

I'm betting Brand alone will cause you to forget the 21min a night from Haywood.

This I agree with completely. Brand is the true difference maker we've acquired for the front court.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This I agree with completely. Brand is the true difference maker we've acquired for the front court.

I challenged someone who was questioning the overall quality of our frontcourt quality...

Who currently has a better frontcourt on paper than the Mavs? (Assuming health)

I'm too lazy to look at rosters...who comes to mind?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sike

I challenged someone who was questioning the overall quality of our frontcourt quality...

Who currently has a better frontcourt on paper than the Mavs? (Assuming health)

I'm too lazy to look at rosters...who comes to mind?

Lakers arguably. That's about it.

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Lakers arguably. That's about it.

LA was the only team that came to mind...and them ONLY bc Bynum is such a two way beast. (when he wants to be)

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Should be so fun to bump this thread next year.

Wood is a 2/10 on offense and a 4/10 on defense (slow).
Kaman is a 8/10 on offense and a 5/10 on defense (moves better than Wood).

10/10 = Dwight

See you in February.

So, what is Dirk? a 12/10 offensively?

Your rating scale is...odd

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

LA was the only team that came to mind...and them ONLY bc Bynum is such a two way beast. (when he wants to be)

But with the addition of Brand, you can say we're deeper... Who plays center for LA when Bynum is out, Gasol? He's gonna hate banging with our bigs around the basket.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So, what is Dirk? a 12/10 offensively?

Your rating scale is...odd

Compared to Dwight 15/10 on offense and 4/10 on defense sounds good to me.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Underdog

But with the addition of Brand, you can say we're deeper... Who plays center for LA when Bynum is out, Gasol? He's gonna hate banging with our bigs around the basket.

Jordan Hill plays center-ish at times for them. I'm not too worried.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Compared to Dwight 15/10 on offense and 6/10 on defense sounds good to me.

Oohh, ok. Now we're clear. Thanks/.

[markus1234]

4/10

Dirk's rebounding numbers were pretty bad lately.

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by sike

I challenged someone who was questioning the overall quality of our frontcourt quality...

Who currently has a better frontcourt on paper than the Mavs? (Assuming health)

I'm too lazy to look at rosters...who comes to mind?

OKC, I'll take Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins over what we have.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by aexchange

OKC, I'll take Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins over what we have.

Yeah, I'll have to pretty strongly disagree here, and that's with me conceding that Durant is at least somewhat better than Dirk at this point.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So, what is Dirk? a 12/10 offensively?

Your rating scale is...odd

Presumably it's a scale from half a Haywood to Dwight.

Which means Dirk would be like a 45/10, and Bynum a 20/10.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by aexchange

OKC, I'll take Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins over what we have.

Ugh. Perkins is weak to quite weak. Thats a two man list.

[jthig32]

I'm with Aexchange on OKC. Ibaka's defense is overrated, but he's still pretty damn good.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm with Aexchange on OKC. Ibaka's defense is overrated, but he's still pretty damn good.

I don't think either of those guys are better than either of Brand or Kaman, and I would have said that before either was a Mav.

That's just me, though.

[Murphy3]

I assumed that they were just talking about the PF and Center spots..

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I assumed that they were just talking about the PF and Center spots..

Yeah I was in the same boat before he mentioned OKC. But I still put the Mavs above them.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by aexchange

OKC, I'll take Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins over what we have.

NY is also pretty good. It all depends on Dirk. let's hope he will be motivated.

[grndmstr_c]

Can't forget Collison when you're talking about that OKC frontcourt.

I'll say Dallas' frontcourt has a very real chance to be better than the OKC frontcourt this year if Captain Kaveman can find his groove. Which is good, because the Thunder definitely have the advantage in the backcourt.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't think either of those guys are better than either of Brand or Kaman, and I would have said that before either was a Mav.

That's just me, though.

You'd rather have Kaman than Ibaka????

I, in all seriousness, am not sure I've ever disagreed with you more on anything.

[sike]

Originally Posted by aexchange

OKC, I'll take Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins over what we have.

I agree. But I was thinking just PF/C Combos.

[Bayliss]

Jthig, have you disagreed less? There you again.

Ibaka's shotblocking is why I'd rather have him over Kaman. That skill is more important for the Mavs than Kaman's offensive ability. And Ibaka does have a decent 10-15 footer and he can finish alley oops.

[markus1234]

Wright=Ibaka

Or at least it should be easier for him to become a poor man's Ibaka than a poor man's Kaman.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You'd rather have Kaman than Ibaka????

I, in all seriousness, am not sure I've ever disagreed with you more on anything.

Yeah....give me Ibaka. It's not really that close in my book as to who I'd rather have.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You'd rather have Kaman than Ibaka????

I, in all seriousness, am not sure I've ever disagreed with you more on anything.

Factoring age in? Absolutely not.

Without age? Yeah, probably. Obviously it depends on the needs of the team, since their skillsets are drastically different. But from a quick look at the stats, Kaman's got a better TRB, and then they're each better in the areas you'd expect.

But it's really not even fair for me to answer that question. If I had a roster with good scoring and wanted to strengthen my weakside defense, I'd obviously take Ibaka in a heartbeat. If I had a middling, plodding offense that suffered seriously in the half court--like the Mavs last year--I'd take Kaman.

I don't think that's so unreasonable....

*edit* It's a bad comparison anyway since they don't even play the same position (both in name and in practice). But I was responding to some of the points above that basically aggregated skill.

[Murphy3]

Well, it also depends on whether or not you're factoring in Kaman's outstanding ability to miss games via injury.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Can't forget Collison when you're talking about that OKC frontcourt.

I'll say Dallas' frontcourt has a very real chance to be better than the OKC frontcourt this year if Captain Kaveman can find his groove. Which is good, because the Thunder definitely have the advantage in the backcourt.

Durant/Ibaka/Perkins/Collison vs. Dirk/Marion/Kaman/Brand? I'd say we look better on paper, but that really depends on which version of Kaman and Brand we get this season and how healthy they can stay.

When it comes to the back court, well, it's a good thing we're not done roster-building yet... The right additions could at least give us an edge in depth, which is how we beat the likes of Westbrook and Harden in the past.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Well, it also depends on whether or not you're factoring in Kaman's outstanding ability to miss games via injury.

Everything I say about him right now is on the assumption that he's playing, which of course is a very shaky assumption.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Ibaka's shotblocking is why I'd rather have him over Kaman. That skill is more important for the Mavs than Kaman's offensive ability.

It's pretty tough to evaluate the importance of shotblocking versus the boost in the offense at the position. Brand and Kaman should average 3+ blocks between them either way.

I still think some are underestimating how big of a difference it will be offensively. When was the last time the team got a combined 20+ ppg from that position?

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't think either of those guys are better than either of Brand or Kaman, and I would have said that before either was a Mav.

That's just me, though.

You are not alone. It will be interesting to see how OKC utilizes Ibaka against us when he actually has to guard someone and can't play free safety out there. Getting both Brand and Kaman is huge. Both guys can be lineup busters for the opposition. If the opponent goes small, you have the ability to match, and then some with Brand at the 5. If they go big, you have the chance to match with post scoring with Kaman and length at the 4 even when Dirk is off the floor.

I am sure that Carlisle is thrilled with all of the tools that are showing up in his toolbox so far, and there is nothing to suggest that there won't be even more for him to work with in the next few days.

[Murphy3]

I've heard rumors that Carlisle is going to go for a 3 center/pf/pg lineup from time to time.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

I think Greece's economy would be a better analogy.

Lol'd. Right on

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That still leaves Kaman ahead in this simplistic comparison, but his health history is the other factor that must be accounted for.

Last season, Chris Kaman averaged 29.2 MPG in 47 games while struggling with injuries.

Meanwhile, Brendan Haywood averaged 21.2 MPG in 54 games while struggling with both injuries and ineptitude.


Just making sure we account for ALL the factors when comparing the two...

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I've heard rumors that Carlisle is going to go for a 3 center/pf/pg lineup from time to time.

I like it... slow the game down, rebound the hell out of the ball, and dare them to beat you from the outside. I'd guess that lineup would be something like Collison/Marion/Dirk/Brand/Kaman? If Collison can hit the outside shot and make the entry pass, that would be a tough lineup for opponents.

[rabbitproof]

Ibaka >> Kaman

No doubt. Ibaka is a blocking Da Vinci with a developing offensive game. Kaman is a good center but not really elite anywhere and super injury-prone.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Ibaka >> Kaman

No doubt. Ibaka is a blocking Da Vinci with a developing offensive game. Kaman is a good center but not really elite anywhere and super injury-prone.

I think there's plenty of doubt. What else you got?