The Obama Boom.

[Mavdog]

tell them what? they already know they lost their job.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

tell them what? they already know they lost their job.

tell them how great the economy is going and how barry's stimulus has helped them keep a job. Even though it's not stimulating anything.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

tell them how great the economy is going and how barry's stimulus has helped them keep a job. Even though it's not stimulating anything.

don't believe anyone uses the word "great" in respect to the economy, at least for the last 24-30 months.

the statistics say you are wrong about the "stimulating", as do the economists quoted in the article.

but I don't expect the facts to change your perspective.

[dude1394]

The only economist that touted the stimulus package was barry. The cash for clunkers will hit home next month. There has been no stimulus from his program because little if any has been spent.

From what I gather the semiconductor industry is refilling lost inventory like a normal business cycle. Nothing that the porkulus bill has anything to do with it, especially with the overseas stuff. The overseas economies are picking up without a massive credit card charge, (they were smarter than barry).

[Mavdog]

there has been a positive affect, auto sales is one example, another is the money sent out last month for renewable energy projects.

the point is the economy bottomed out in 2Q 2009, and is now on a positive trend. this corresponds to the implementation of the stimulus.

foreign economies? britain is still contracting, as is italy and spain. germany has done some stimulus, as has china, and they are growing just like america.

[dude1394]

The barry boom and stimulus plan keeps on clunking along. 26 year high....starting to get into the worst prez in history category here. Maybe should have given us 700billion in tax cuts...

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. unemployment rate jumped to a 26-year high of 9.7% in August as nonfarm payrolls fell by 216,000, the 20th consecutive monthly decline, the Labor Department estimated Friday.

[dude1394]

Well said imo.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/10402

Unemployment Sky Rocketing As Stimulus Bill Goes Bust

Published by AJStrata under All General Discussions, Measuring The Recovery

Don’t have time for a long post on this not surprising news, but the unemployment rate jumped in August to a 26 year high:

U.S. employers cut a fewer-than-expected 216,000 jobs in August, while the unemployment rate rose to a 26-year high, the government said on Friday in a report showing a still fragile labor market.
The Labor Department said the unemployment rate rose to 9.7 percent after dipping to 9.4 percent in July and the decline in payrolls was the smallest in a year. The department revised job losses for June and July to show 49,000 more jobs lost than previously reported.

The problem is while the layoffs are slowing, they are not stopping. And we are still, each month, losing more jobs than gaining new ones. Obama’s stupid promise to ‘create or save’ millions of jobs with the liberal deficit busting, pork laden, kick back stimulus bill has been proven to be based on liberal fiction. The government can’t run to the rescue unless and only if it goes with tax cuts.


Another disturbing number is how many people are on extended and emergency unemployment stipends. This ever expanding number can be seen in the weekly Dept of Labor reports, such as yesterday’s. The number of people on Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) is stunning:

States reported 3,029,668 persons claiming EUC (Emergency Unemployment Compensation) benefits for the week ending Aug. 15, an increase of 85,570 from the prior week. There were 1,550,093 claimants in the comparable week in 2008. EUC weekly claims include both first and second tier activity.

The economy has shed 6.9 million jobs since December 2007 – with 3 million of those people sitting on these emergency extended benefits. This month’s report tried to find a ray of light with 70,000 new jobs, but it is delusional to think we have turned around the economy with a paltry 70,000 jobs while losing 216,000 and over 3,000,000 needed to get people off the EUC roles!


The liberal myth that government spending can impact or help the economy is now dead and busted. The so called emergency stimulus bill has yet to even kick in (see here for latest numbers showing 98% of the money STILL stuck in the bureaucracy). Don’t let anyone ever try and resurrect this naive myth again.



The only way government can help the economy is to get its greedy fingers out of the private sector and reduce its burden. We should all be thanking the knuckleheads in DC for finally proving that liberal economic theory is all fantasy-fiction. Sadly so many good people had to suffer to learn that lesson.

[dude1394]

Ouch....gonna be tough for dems to run on this record of "achievement" next year.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...l-Rate-Now-9.7

[dude1394]

This one isn't any better.

[Mavdog]

pro⋅jec⋅tion  /prəˈdʒɛkʃən/ [pruh-jek-shuhn]
noun
1. a projecting or protruding part.
2. the state or fact of jutting out or protruding.
3. a causing to jut or protrude.
4. the act, process, or result of projecting.
5. Cartography. a systematic construction of lines drawn on a plane surface representative of and corresponding to the meridians and parallels of the curved surface of the earth or celestial sphere.
6. Photography. a. the act of reproducing on a surface, by optical means, a remote image on a film, slide, etc. b. an image so reproduced.
7. the act of visualizing and regarding an idea or the like as an objective reality.
8. something that is so visualized and regarded.
9. calculation of some future thing

[Murphy3]

So you're saying you don't like Obama? No one really does. But, I suppose it's all about whether you're a democrat or a republican. Hell, I'm sure democrats would have chosen just about anyone else other than Obama.. but, for some reason, they settled on the pro baby killing terrorist supporter.

But hey, at least he's doing a damn fine job leading the country out of this recession.... oh, scratch that.

[chumdawg]

I don't know about you, but I'm all about the terrorists. We could use some more of that.

[dude1394]

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/10411

Update: Seems the faux Stimulus Bill is running out of gas (since it has not spent much money) and one time examples of its success are now examples of its failure:

It was just five months ago that Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. made the New Flyer bus factory here a symbol of the stimulus.
…
But last month, the company that administration officials had pictured as a stimulus success story began laying off 320 people, or 13 percent of its work force, …

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The barry boom and stimulus plan keeps on clunking along. 26 year high....starting to get into the worst prez in history category here. Maybe should have given us 700billion in tax cuts...

Dude, I am sorry.... (well not really)... but since you keep on beating this horse I will too.

you sound like a boogar eating moron.

the 26 years ago... hmmm ... that was Reagan, right? the last president to take over in the midst of a large recession. Do you blame HIM for the exorbitantly high unemployment rate in his first year? I am sure that is the basis for your vote for Reagan as the OTHER candidate for worst Prez in history... Right?

no?

no, that is right, THAT recession was purposely created by Paul Volker and the fed to kill inflation. THIS recession? well... other than being MUCH worse, and not purposely generated, has the same basic story:

-- economies turn slowly (at least in the upward direction), they are tankers, not speed boats.

-- employment is a lagging indicator. Sooooo even WHEN the taker has turned, employment stats will lag and continue to sag for a while.

[dude1394]

I'm glad that you agree feel with me that obama's political stimulus package is a colossal waste of taxpayers dollars.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ouch....gonna be tough for dems to run on this record of "achievement" next year.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...l-Rate-Now-9.7

it is interesting that the author of this graph chose to seperate 1980 and 1981 into two seperate recessions.... I wonder why they chose to do that?

[Mavdog]

odd but there's nothing in the sluggo's post that says anything about a "colossal waste of taxpayer's dollars".

on the contrary, imagine how much more employment would have been reduced if the $80-$90B in stimulus funds had not been invested, and how much more of a hit retail sales would have been reduced without the $40B or so in tax cuts.

a disciplined approach to how these $ are spent, with an approach that prioritizes the most bang for the buck , as opposed to trying to push the $ out as fast as possible leading to waste/graft/inefficieny seems to be better don't you agree?

if there had not been the stimulus monies being spent for the buses on order at New Flyer, they might just be totally out of business as opposed to reducing their workforce by 13%. 100% is worse than 13%, right?

really, it seems that there are some who want to look at the glass as empty as possible instead of the glass as full as possible. negativity is so easy of a trap to fall into.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

odd but there's nothing in the sluggo's post that says anything about a "colossal waste of taxpayer's dollars".

I was infering since sluggo doesn't think barry has any impact at all on any numbers. Since he can't impact it, then the "stimuls" must be a waste of time. Barry passed the stimulus in early Febuary. Since then nothing but more job losses...and he's not responsible for anything. I just have to infer a collosal waste of dollars.

Unless he IS responsible for something, which I cannot seem to find on the left-side of this argument. Except for jobs saved when jobs are continuing to be lost? Someone might say scoreboard...

[dude1394]

Here is something else that Barry is not responsible for I guess. Hmm...direst employment landscape since the great depression, Barry's political stimulus is a collossal waste of time and dollars...but as usual he's voting present.

Great gig I tell ya'.

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/10519

The to be expected bad news friday data dump from barry.

News is out today painting an even bleaker job/economic picture than I wrote about just yesterday. It seems we will have years of poor jobs and too few jobs due to the fact the liberals in DC refuse cut spending and lower taxes and get our economy moving again:

The president’s chief economic adviser warned Friday that the nation’s unemployment rate could stay “unacceptably high” for years to come — a situation that would seriously complicate Barack Obama’s ability to convince Americans that he’s beating back the recession.

Time covers the long version:

… policymakers figured the most chilling scenario for unemployment in 2009 was 8.9% — a figure we breezed past in May. From December 2007 to August 2009, the economy jettisoned nearly 7 million jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That’s a 5% decrease in the total number of jobs, a drop that hasn’t occurred since the end of World War II. The number of long-term unemployed, people who have been out of work for more than 27 weeks, was the highest since the BLS began recording the number in 1948. Jobless figures released Sept. 4 showed a 9.7% unemployment rate, pushing the U.S. — unthinkably — ahead of Europe, with 9.5%.


America now faces the direst employment landscape since the Depression. It’s troubling not simply for its sheer scale but also because the labor market, shaped by globalization and technology and financial meltdown, may be fundamentally different from anything we’ve seen before. And if the result is that we’re stuck with persistent 9%-to-11% unemployment for a while — a range whose mathematical congruence with that other 9/11 is impossible to miss — we may be looking at a problem that will define the first term of Barack Obama’s presidency the way the original 9/11 defined George W. Bush’s.

The finishing comments are spot-on...This guy is a complete cluster...

That idiocy was never going to turn around an economy the size and scope of America’s. It was a fool’s errand proposed by fools (of course). And the reason we will have the same dismal results for years? Because we are going to stick with the same dismal policies for years – until we vote out the liberals in DC and turn this nation around.
Hopefully, California can also wake up from its nightmare and dump its failed leaders as well.

[Mavdog]

It seems we will have years of poor jobs and too few jobs due to the fact the liberals in DC refuse cut spending and lower taxes and get our economy moving again

using what seems to be the favorite phrase of the right these days, "you lie"....

President Signs Massive Stimulus Bill; Nearly $300 Billion in Tax Relief
http://tax.cchgroup.com/Legislation/...y-Act-2009.pdf

it's amazing to read from the critics about how the actions of the current administration are a failure because unemployment has increased over the last 3 quarters, when anyone with a lick of objectivity would look at the situation and conclude that the situation would have been much, much worse if not for the actions of the current administration.

This analysis indicates that the ARRA and other policy actions caused employment in August to be slightly more than 1 million jobs higher than it otherwise would have been.

[dude1394]

Hey barry's not responsible for anything...I'm starting to get it. He's not responsible for putting the other 600billion to work immediately, or removing other obstacles to job creation. He's just not responsible for anything...

He's become sorta like climate change. Temps go up---climate change...temps go down----climate change. Unemployment goes up....not barry's fault...unemployment doesn't go up....barry's (hmm..I think we'll find a change in that story...once that occurs).

It's amazing for someone to hear barry tout jobs saved while the unemployment rate runs to 10%+. Ignore the scoreboard, ignore the numbers...we meant well and are pushing liberal policies with your tax dollars, isn't that good enough?

[Mavdog]

let's see, as was pointed out above obama is responsible for a tax cut that your link was wrong about.

according to the council of economic advisors the obama administration is responsible for actions that have lessened the number of job losses over the last 3Q.

there's plenty of responsibility to talk about, why do you choose to ignore it?

oh yeah, I get it....you only want to recognize the negatives, the right can't bring themselves to acknowledge anything positive the obama administrion has done. in fact, as shown in the article you linked, the right would just as soon lie about what the obama administration has done in their attempt to distort the record.

not very attractive. rather ugly to say the least.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I was infering since sluggo doesn't think barry has any impact at all on any numbers. Since he can't impact it, then the "stimuls" must be a waste of time. Barry passed the stimulus in early Febuary. Since then nothing but more job losses...and he's not responsible for anything. I just have to infer a collosal waste of dollars.

Unless he IS responsible for something, which I cannot seem to find on the left-side of this argument. Except for jobs saved when jobs are continuing to be lost? Someone might say scoreboard...

Dude, I honestly can't figure out if you are trying to PROVE that you are a complete moron, or if you are trying to be cute. Really I can't. And I really would like to know, actually.

Are you REALLY soooo stupid as to be unable to understand the difference between a marginal effect (influencing something) and a deterministic effect (having complete control over something). I am starting to think that you ALWAYS painting everything in broad black or white, fatally overly simplistic strokes isn't just a sophomoric straw-man oriented debate ploy, but actually the way you view the world... and if that is the case, I am actually shocked.

[alexamenos]

this is what depression looks like

The biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history lies at anchor east of Singapore. Never before photographed, it is bigger than the U.S. and British navies combined but has no crew, no cargo and no destination...

Governments can crank up the printing presses and crank down the cpi calculations and call it a recovery (a jobless recovery, no less), but they can't pretend empty cargo ships aren't idle.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Dude, I honestly can't figure out if you are trying to PROVE that you are a complete moron, or if you are trying to be cute. Really I can't. And I really would like to know, actually.

Are you REALLY soooo stupid as to be unable to understand the difference between a marginal effect (influencing something) and a deterministic effect (having complete control over something). I am starting to think that you ALWAYS painting everything in broad black or white, fatally overly simplistic strokes isn't just a sophomoric straw-man oriented debate ploy, but actually the way you view the world... and if that is the case, I am actually shocked.

Hmm...barry is out touting that his stimulus package is doing a great job...but the numbers show that it is not. You tell me who's correct.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hmm...barry is out touting that his stimulus package is doing a great job...but the numbers show that it is not. You tell me who's correct.

what "numbers" are you referring to?

the vast consensus is the economy has stopped it's downward spiral and begun to grow again, so is that not in itself "doing a great job"?

or are you under the mistaken belief that there is a magic wand that will make the recession just go "poof" and disappear?

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

this is what depression looks like



Governments can crank up the printing presses and crank down the cpi calculations and call it a recovery (a jobless recovery, no less), but they can't pretend empty cargo ships aren't idle.

Globally, it doesn't qualify as a recovery yet, it qualifies as as a stemming of much of the hemorrhaging, and of things NOT falling off the cliff as far as had been worried.

At this stage this can be viewed allegorically like a fight against cancer. The patient isn't signing up for any marathons right now, but it doesn't appear that the cancer has not spread to the liver and bone marrow. But yeah.... the patient still has cancer, and is undergoing chemo.

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Globally, it doesn't qualify as a recovery yet, it qualifies as as a stemming of much of the hemorrhaging, and of things NOT falling off the cliff as far as had been worried.

At this stage this can be viewed allegorically like a fight against cancer. The patient isn't signing up for any marathons right now, but it doesn't appear that the cancer has not spread to the liver and bone marrow. But yeah.... the patient still has cancer, and is undergoing chemo.

The cost of pumping borrowed liquidity into the system hasn't hit yet. I certainly hope we managed to strike an acceptable balance between cushioning the pain and extending it.

[dude1394]

Barry begins to copy Swedish economic policies...er...nevermind. We just cannot get ahead of those swedes....dang it!!

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/024554.php

Sweden Slashes Income Taxes to Promote Job Growth

Share Post Print
September 19, 2009 Posted by John at 7:16 AM
<a href='http://agahe.net/~openx/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?n=ac276629&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_ HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://agahe.net/~openx/openx/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=2&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_H ERE&n=ac276629' border='0' alt='' /></a>
We noted here that the United States has the most progressive income tax system in the developed world. That's right--embarrassingly enough, more progressive than Sweden's.
Actually, a generation of economic stagnation has taught the Swedes a lesson. They've learned that government does not produce wealth, and if they want more people to work, jobs have to pay better, after taxes. Sweden is therefore in the midst of a series of tax cuts aimed at preserving the long-term viability of its economy. Today's headline: "Sweden slashes income tax further to boost jobs."
It's an interesting comparison: Sweden experimented with the nanny state, learned that it was devastating to the economic and moral health of its people, and is moving back toward individualism. Here in the U.S., we had the world's most dynamic economy, and the lesson we took away from that--some of us, anyway--was that we were doing something wrong and needed to socialize everything. Curious.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by aquaadverse

The cost of pumping borrowed liquidity into the system hasn't hit yet.

The s--- most certainly has not yet hit the fan.

[dude1394]

You go barry...nice...89,000 car...

WSJ: A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.

The award this week to California startup Fisker Automotive Inc. follows a $465 million government loan to Tesla Motors Inc., purveyors of a $109,000 British-built electric Roadster. Tesla, like Fisker, is a California startup focusing on high-end hybrids, with a number of celebrity endorsements that is backed by investors that have contributed to Democratic campaigns.

The awards to Fisker and Tesla have prompted concern from companies that have had their bids for loans rejected, and criticism from groups that question why vehicles aimed at the wealthiest customers are getting loans subsidized by taxpayers.

"This is not for average Americans," said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. "This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It's status symbol thing."

[dude1394]

That Barry stimulus keeps on keeping on....sort of like that bridge to nowhere. You go boys and girls...remember elections have consequences.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...qsXMuIlGONNX1K

The unemployment rate for young Americans has exploded to 52.2 percent -- a post-World War II high, according to the Labor Dept. -- meaning millions of Americans are staring at the likelihood that their lifetime earning potential will be diminished and, combined with the predicted slow economic recovery, their transition into productive members of society could be put on hold for an extended period of time.
And worse, without a clear economic recovery plan aimed at creating entry-level jobs, the odds of many of these young adults -- aged 16 to 24, excluding students -- getting a job and moving out of their parents' houses are long. Young workers have been among the hardest hit during the current recession -- in which a total of 9.5 million jobs have been lost.
...
Al Angrisani, the former assistant Labor Department secretary under President Reagan, doesn't see a turnaround in the jobs picture for entry-level workers and places the blame squarely on the Obama administration and the construction of its stimulus bill.
"There is no assistance provided for the development of job growth through small businesses, which create 70 percent of the jobs in the country," Angrisani said in an interview last week. "All those [unemployed young people] should be getting hired by small businesses."
There are six million small businesses in the country, those that employ less than 100 people, and a jobs stimulus bill should include tax credits to give incentives to those businesses to hire people, the former Labor official said.
"If each of the businesses hired just one person, we would go a long way in growing ourselves back to where we were before the recession," Angrisani noted.

Nah...too busy paying off his buds and moving social issues down the pipe.

As someone said...Nero fiddles....
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/10790


And the obviouis effect of Barry's stimulus package. The dotted line is when the "barry political stimulus package" passed.

[dude1394]

It is getting REALLY bad when the NYTimes starts telling the truth...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/bu...BMvBUdsl14NKrg

Despite signs that the economy has resumed growing, unemployed Americans now confront a job market that is bleaker than ever in the current recession, and employment prospects are still getting worse.





Job seekers now outnumber openings six to one, the worst ratio since the government began tracking open positions in 2000. According to the Labor Department’s latest numbers, from July, only 2.4 million full-time permanent jobs were open, with 14.5 million people officially unemployed.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It is getting REALLY bad when the NYTimes starts telling the truth...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/bu...BMvBUdsl14NKrg

yes, glad to read that you agree with "the truth", that the economic initiatives/policies of the current administration have been successful in halting the recession. about time you gave credit to the obama economic team for their positive stewardship thru a very difficult time.

as is always the case, job growth comes after the economic contraction is stopped, and the economy begins to increase its production of goods and services. let's hope we see some positive trends in job growth soon.

[dude1394]

Yup...he's kicking it allright. That's why he's getting so much credit for it.

[Mavdog]

you gave him credit. see post 273.

are you now saying that the economy isn't growing?

[Tokey41]

Not that I care how badly America wants to mess up their economy... but didn't Obama inherit all of these problems he's trying to fix?

[dude1394]

He inherited a recession and instead of putting dollars back into the economy by giving it back to the people, he gave to his pet political causes....and the unemployment just continues to go up.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

He inherited a recession and instead of putting dollars back into the economy by giving it back to the people, he gave to his pet political causes....and the unemployment just continues to go up.

it's getting to be truly funny how you avoid answering questions.

you refuse to concede that the recession has ended as that would require you to give some credit to the obama economic team. so instead of admitting their success, you just ignore the obvious. maybe underdog could find a photo of an ostrich for your avatar...

it would be really interesting to read how the recession has been ended by the current administration "putting dollars...to his pet political causes".

well? if the $ went to "pet political causes" we wouldn't have the success in ending the recession, would we?

how do you explain this contradiction?

btw are tax cuts "pet political causes"? accelerated depreciation schedules for small businesses? increased loans to college students? just what are these "pet political projects"?

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Not that I care how badly America wants to mess up their economy... but didn't Obama inherit all of these problems he's trying to fix?

While it's become popular to think that Bush has taken a golden age and thoroughly and ignorantly messed it up, the dot bomb implosion had taken a toll, 9/11 and dealing with reorganizing intelligence and defenses that were still primarily oriented with a sovereign nation enemy was a pretty full plate and little to suggest it was seen coming during the campaign. Little doubt he screwed up some things and did well on others, but it's hard to justify Obama had a bigger problem during his first nine months. I have my testicles ascending into my body at the thought of Obama in the position of Bush during his first 9 months.

Obama made audacious promises he couldn't possibly keep. It's to his credit he adjusted to the reality of the situation, but he ran as more of centrist and seems stuck in the campaign mode of needing winners and losers. The people who think everything he does is crap and the people who voted for the symbol haven't budged much. The biggest hammering is from the moderates and independents who are not happy with the results so far from the stimulus and dubious of his health care reform.

His Party has a commanding majority in both Houses of Congress, problems like health care reform that everyone agrees need to be addressed immediately and he overreached badly. His own Party is a bigger barrier than the opposition.