damp traded for tyson chandler - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Yes, it is a bit chaotic. I'd love to dump Terry to free up some more minutes.

define "dump" lol

bobatundi · 07-13-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Hey! Najera had bench 10... Stevenson had bench seat 11. Get it right, Hollinger!

Can someone explain how we're getting the TEs?

I get we get something for Najera, the swap-a-TE thing. Where is the other 3-4M coming from?

I believe it's the difference in salary between Damp + Carroll vs. Chandler + Ajinca.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Hey! Najera had bench 10... Stevenson had bench seat 11. Get it right, Hollinger!

Can someone explain how we're getting the TEs?

I get we get something for Najera, the swap-a-TE thing. Where is the other 3-4M coming from?

This is Charlotte we're talking about...for all we know, Carroll and Najera may be in the starting lineup next year.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 06:49 PM

Yes, I ranted about Lin in the sml thread. Not to totally undermine JJ's contributions and what he still obviously has over Jeremy Lin in the experience department but, I would rather have him than JJB. At the very least we would HAVE to rely on Roddy more.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 06:50 PM

I wonder how much of Chandler's fall-off (injury aside) had to do with not having Chris Paul around?

Imagine Kidd & Chandler connecting like this...

(that painful memory could be a bright future!)

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

define "dump" lol

Trade him far, far away. Charlotte would have been a perfect sucker, but that didn't work out. He does have a contract that is somewhat expiring...

I don't think its going to happen, but I wish it would. Harrington can do what JET does and some, while playing better defense and rebounding a little.

LonghornDub · 07-13-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I wonder how much of Chandler's fall-off (injury aside) had to do with not having Chris Paul around?

I tend to think that CP3 basically made Chandler, which is one of the biggest reasons why I don't think the guy is very good.

Underdog · 07-13-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I tend to think that CP3 basically made Chandler, which is one of the biggest reasons why I don't think the guy is very good.

But could Kidd "re-make" Chandler?

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But could Kidd "re-make" Chandler?

Offensively, why not. Kidd has shown he can still make the absolutely brilliant pass if it's there. They already set up that wicked misdirection screen-lob for a Roddy dunk. The potential is there.

There is still the defensive aspect to Chandler's game to remember as well.

BGMaverick9 · 07-13-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Trade him far, far away. Charlotte would have been a perfect sucker, but that didn't work out. He does have a contract that is somewhat expiring...

I don't think its going to happen, but I wish it would. Harrington can do what JET does and some, while playing better defense and rebounding a little.

I meant you could easily dump him or a second round pick or something to a team who has cap space...that's a dump for sure...

Kidd Karma · 07-13-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Offensively, why not. Kidd has shown he can still make the absolutely brilliant pass if it's there. They already set up that wicked misdirection screen-lob for a Roddy dunk. The potential is there.

There is still the defensive aspect to Chandler's game to remember as well.

No doubt, maybe he'll resurrect the 2006 Diop in Dallas.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Just think...this deal would've never happened if Charlotte didn't back out of their deal with Toronto.

Just shows you shouldn't jump off a cliff if a trade doesn't happen like the Jefferson one. If we get Harrington, then Chandler/Harrington with those money savings and expirings included is a damn good back-up plan.

bobatundi · 07-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Having gone to ten Knicks games this past season, I'll offer this on Harrington: he's a pure chucker, a black hole with the basketball. That said, when nobody else is scoring (as frequently happened in NY last year), the guy could come off the bench for 20 any day of the week. I can see a role for him on the Mavs, for sure.

twistaeffect2004 · 07-13-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Having gone to ten Knicks games this past season, I'll offer this on Harrington: he's a pure chucker, a black hole with the basketball. That said, when nobody else is scoring (as frequently happened in NY last year), the guy could come off the bench for 20 any day of the week. I can see a role for him on the Mavs, for sure.

Harrington would be a nice pickup for the Mavs. I see him in the role that Keith Van Horn played upon him becoming a Mav. He's instant offense, he can hit the trey and he's a big guy that runs like a gazelle. I personally think he's a bargain for the MLE.

He's definitely a chucker, but to be fair to him, the Knicks didn't exactly have many options last year. I also think sometimes when a guy comes to a winning team and he's accepted a different role, that chucker type of mentality is dropped. For as much as Stackhouse was scrutinized in his last few years year, he played a huge role for us and really toned the shooting down. He's doing the same for the Bucks now. I have no doubt Harrington would do the same.

CadBane · 07-13-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

This is Charlotte we're talking about...for all we know, Carroll and Najera may be in the starting lineup next year.

Uh, Charlotte was one of the best home teams in basketball. They've had an awful offseason, but last year they sported a starting 5 of:

Felton
SJax
GDub
Diaw
Theo

Aside from Theo, those are good players. Two of them all-stars. The Bobcats had a better home record than us, fyi. Not sure why you think sorry scrubs like MC and Najera would start for them. They won't.

CadBane · 07-13-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

There isn't a debate. As for your ? 2007-2008. I like the chances of Kaman being available if Jordan and Griffen devolop and Clippers are bad like they always are

You're right there's not a debate. Dampier is a much better basketball player than Chandler. You can like the trade, but calling Chandler an upgrade from Damp, player wise, is laughable.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You're right there's not a debate. Dampier is a much better basketball player than Chandler. You can like the trade, but calling Chandler an upgrade from Damp, player wise, is laughable.

Chandler hasn't played one game yet for the Mavs. If and when he sucks, then you can keep being a jackass. Until then, try a little optimism.

CadBane · 07-13-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Chandler hasn't played one game yet for the Mavs. If and when he sucks, then you can keep being a jackass. Until then, try a little optimism.

Are you oblivious? I don't even mind the trade right now. And if Chandler is healthy, he's a very very solid back-up center...I'm simply correcting someone who seems to think Chandler is a better PLAYER than Damp. He's not. I watched them both last year. And the year before. It's not a big deal, because we weren't keeping Damp, and we have Wood. I'm just saying it's not a roster upgrade.

xrobx · 07-13-2010, 08:13 PM

i actually like harrington. he can have off shooting nights but he can just as easily blow up and score 30 or 40 points. we need as many scoring threats as possible on this team. plus he's a good rebounder.

LonghornDub · 07-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But could Kidd "re-make" Chandler?

He's definitely got the eye to set up up in good places with the ball. What he lacks is the ability to penetrate into the paint or run the pick and roll into the lane, which seemed to be the most effective ways to set up Chandler. That's my concern there.

It's certainly a good thing we have Kidd, though.

RareMilk · 07-13-2010, 08:48 PM

Is Chandler's past injuries a real concern I should be worried about? Remember how Kidd just lobbed the ball in the air for Hollins to catch and finish? I'm hoping we get something like that.

Thespiralgoeson · 07-13-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Donnie really stuck his neck out saying that Chandler is "Healthy as a horse"...and reiterated that they were VERY thorough in making sure of it.

Is that horse Barbaro?

LonghornDub · 07-13-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Is that horse Barbaro?

Too soon?

....nahhhh.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Are you oblivious? I don't even mind the trade right now. And if Chandler is healthy, he's a very very solid back-up center...I'm simply correcting someone who seems to think Chandler is a better PLAYER than Damp. He's not. I watched them both last year. And the year before. It's not a big deal, because we weren't keeping Damp, and we have Wood. I'm just saying it's not a roster upgrade.

It's just different, not an upgrade per se. It could be a better fit though, which in turn, is an upgrade. We'll see....

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RareMilk

Is Chandler's past injuries a real concern I should be worried about? Remember how Kidd just lobbed the ball in the air for Hollins to catch and finish? I'm hoping we get something like that.

You mean this?

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Uh, Charlotte was one of the best home teams in basketball. They've had an awful offseason, but last year they sported a starting 5 of:

Felton
SJax
GDub
Diaw
Theo

Aside from Theo, those are good players. Two of them all-stars. The Bobcats had a better home record than us, fyi. Not sure why you think sorry scrubs like MC and Najera would start for them. They won't.

First of all, I was joking, so let's not get all defensive here. Second of all, if I was taking a shot at anybody, it would be Michael Jordan and his front office...they are moronic enough to pull something off like that.

And Stephen Jackson is not an all star. Never has been. He's an OK shooter, if you can get by the fact that he takes as many shots as Kobe. I'd take him for our starting shooting guard. But he's not an allstar.

tcat075 · 07-13-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's just different, not an upgrade per se. It could be a better fit though, which in turn, is an upgrade. We'll see....

I'd say your onto something here. Dampier was the fundamentally sound, big unmovable guy, not that mobile and poor hands, but had a little bit of skill when putting up shots. Chandler is much more athletic, not as strong or as big, can run some, will dunk the ball, but makes more stupid plays on defense and really just throws the ball up near the basket when he's shooting. Its very possible that with Dirk occupying attention in the post, and Kidd running the point, and Roddy able to easily penetrate, that Chandler will be able to thrive where Dampier was just able to survive (I know, corny as hell).

Thespiralgoeson · 07-13-2010, 09:19 PM

Let me start off by saying that I fully understand the logic behind this move, and that under the circumstances, this was probably the best option. I certainly like this a hell of a lot better than going all-in for Al Jefferson, whom I never thought was a good fit.

That being said, this has to be considered the most disappointing offseason in recent history. I'm not holding my breath for some amazing trade to happen before the deadline, and I think our championship window has effectively closed. The "dustchip" and the free agent class this offseason was our Hail Mary pass, wing and a prayer, deus ex machina, last ditch effort to put this team back in the title picture, and it didn't work. The odds of Dirk Nowitzki winning a championship in Dallas are slim to nil at this point.

Even IF we managed CP3, I'm not sure that would be enough (and seriously, does anybody here honestly expect that to happen?)

jayC · 07-13-2010, 09:31 PM

A single not a homerun, anyone would take Tyson Chandler for Erick Dampier especially when Chandler has one year left on his contract. And you get rid of albatross contracts like Najera and Carroll.

This off season taught us one thing cap space is the most important thing. Teams that are good and have cap space can make things happen.

an excerpt from John Hollinger"
First, however, we have to discuss the alternative: Dallas could have gone for the home run and traded Dampier, along with two first-round picks, to Minnesota for Al Jefferson. This would have been a classic Mavs move, akin to recent trades for Jason Kidd, Caron Butler and Shawn Marion, but the pieces didn't fit. Jefferson and Dirk Nowitzki would have been terrible partners on the defensive end, and offensively Jefferson was never going to get the rock enough in the post with all the scoring-minded players around him.

What Dallas really needs to vault itself to elite status is a first-rate perimeter player; at the moment, the Mavs man those positions with several 30-something former stars but no current ones. With none available to be had with the Dampier contract, they did the next best thing.

By adding Chandler, the Mavs retain the rights to a top defensive center. Additionally, he has a $12 million expiring contract, which gives the Mavs maximum flexibility to pursue other trades during the course of the season. No, it isn't quite as alluring as being able to waive Dampier and clean the books entirely, but it's a useful asset.

Additionally, two other factors have been underrated. First, dumping Carroll and Najera helps the Mavs' flexibility going forward by subtracting $6.5 million in dead weight from the 2011-12 payroll. If somehow things go off the rails this year, Dallas could very easily get itself well under the cap next summer -- words that have been rarely spoken around Big D in the Mark Cuban era.

Second, the Mavs walk away with two trade exceptions worth a combined $6.4 million.

So it's not the Pau Gasol trade. But it's something. The Mavs have a top-notch defensive frontcourt with Chandler and Brendan Haywood, and they've left open a number of options for pursuing roster upgrades during the course of the season.

Thomas86 · 07-13-2010, 09:48 PM

I'm happy with Chandler

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 09:51 PM

i understand the reasoning behind what Hollinger and others are saying. cap space is all well and good. but next summer's free-agent class isn't that good. Carmelo, Tony Parker, David West, Caron Butler(!)are about the best of it. CP and Deron aren't until 2012. and that's all a big "if". no guarantees.
we may have better luck trying to pry O.J. Mayo from Memphis by taking on the Zach randolph mess or something. but seriously the chances of the Mavs landing CP or Carmelo are slim to none. and would Deron even be enough? thats a long ways off.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 09:52 PM

Usually Lurkin · 07-13-2010, 09:53 PM

to mix a couple of metaphors for a point: we're down double digits with an inning or so left of Dirk's career. Singles really don't help a whole heckuva lot.

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 09:53 PM

we have to hope Roddy turns into the reliable second scorer and Caron has a bounce back year. those two things would ease the pressure on Dirk some

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

to mix a couple of metaphors for a point: we're down double digits with an inning or so left of Dirk's career. Singles really don't help a whole heckuva lot.

i think this is why some people were ready to pull the trigger on the Al Jefferson deal. he's not a perfect fit by any means. but if you don't double him he can make you pay. and that seems to be one of this teams primary goals.
making things easier to Dirk. getting some easy buckets when things slow down in the halfcourt.

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

to mix a couple of metaphors for a point: we're down double digits with an inning or so left of Dirk's career. Singles really don't help a whole heckuva lot.

but you always want to continue to fine-tune and tweak the roster wherever you can. i don't fault the FO for that. it's just that our options to hit a grand slam are more and more limited

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

but you always want to continue to fine-tune and tweak the roster wherever you can. i don't fault the FO for that. it's just that our options to hit a grand slam are more and more limited

unless you happen to be at a Denny's w/ Tim Thomas

SMC0007 · 07-13-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

to mix a couple of metaphors for a point: we're down double digits with an inning or so left of Dirk's career. Singles really don't help a whole heckuva lot.

You need a F ing miracle if your down double digits with 8 innings left, much less and inning or so...

mac222b · 07-13-2010, 10:07 PM

omg i just realized i quoted myself. it's a small step from that to regularly referring to myself in the third person& announcing to everyone on the board that im "taking my talents to South Beach". which is also a euphemism for 9:30am pick-up game with #41MVP in DG. two balls

ocelot_ark · 07-13-2010, 10:08 PM

I don't have anything against Chandler. I can appreciate that when he's, seldomly, healthy he's a good defensive center. I can see how he might benefit from some Kidd lobs and such.

I just SEVERELY hope there is SOMETHING else in the works between now and training camp. I mean, do you guys think Cuban and Nelson sat down to talk to Dirk and convinced him to re-sign with the notion of adding Chandler? You HAVE to think they were confident they'd be able to lure SOMEONE that could take the pressure off.

If the offseason plays out like this with no other changes...give up. I mean, we had a slim-to-nil chance of winning a championship before the exodus to Miami. Don't prolong the inevitable while wasting away your tradeable assets.

Do something big NOW, or stop wasting our/Dirk's time.