2017 NBA Draft

[rimrocker]

I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of Jackson. I'm sure he'll be gone by the time we pick but he is beginning to really impress and put the Jayhawks on his back. His shot is looking good and he is asserting himself into a leadership role even over their 2 upper class PGs.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of Jackson. I'm sure he'll be gone by the time we pick but he is beginning to really impress and put the Jayhawks on his back. His shot is looking good and he is asserting himself into a leadership role even over their 2 upper class PGs.

Last four games for J. Jackson:

20pts, 7reb, 3ast, 2stl 54% FG, 55% from three (10/18),

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Last four games for J. Jackson:

20pts, 7reb, 3ast, 2stl 54% FG, 55% from three (10/18),

The last 2 games were against #4 Kentucky (at the time) and #2 Baylor.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of Jackson. I'm sure he'll be gone by the time we pick but he is beginning to really impress and put the Jayhawks on his back. His shot is looking good and he is asserting himself into a leadership role even over their 2 upper class PGs.

NBA athlete and length. Shot is still awkward, low release, no follow through. But that can be fixed.

I just pray we take BPA wherever we pick. I don't care where we pick or if we're stacked at SF etc. just take the best player

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

NBA athlete and length. Shot is still awkward, low release, no follow through. But that can be fixed.

I just pray we take BPA wherever we pick. I don't care where we pick or if we're stacked at SF etc. just take the best player

It appears this draft will be rich with 6'7"-6'10" SF/PFs so there is a good chance when we pick the BPA will be one of those guys.
Right now I think I'd take Jackson over any of them and maybe even any player other than Smith or Fultz. Doubt we will finish low enough to get him though.

If we do take a SF I could see Anderson being moved to address another area of need.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

If we do take a SF I could see Anderson being moved to address another area of need.

Given JA's playing time, we might as well move him for whatever we can get. I'm really disappointed in both him and RC. I was expected and was super excited to see him come out strong this season, much improved.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Given JA's playing time, we might as well move him for whatever we can get. I'm really disappointed in both him and RC. I was expected and was super excited to see him come out strong this season, much improved.

He is still the youngest player on the team (I think) so there is still some upside. But if we end up getting someone like Isaac, Jackson, Giles, Tatum, etc... I could see us moving Anderson.
I still think Anderson could have a future on this team....especially after Dirk retires and Barnes becomes primarily a 4 and Wes' game starts to decline.

[Bryan_Wilson]

How I wish we could just combine DFS's feel for the game with Simba's athletic gifts. The biggest complaint with Simba I have is his feel for the game. Knowing when to switch on defense, when to play aggressive and just where to be on the floor in general. I still think the best way for him to learn these things is to be on the floor playing. We aren't a good enough team though to try to win and put him on the floor to learn.

They need to decide what to do with him by this off season though. I don't even think it's DFS who is keeping Simba off the floor. When he's been on the floor he's definitely trying to attack the paint and many times he's given the ball on the wing to initiate a play call, which tells me that the coaching staff wants him to do more than be a "3 and D" guy and entirely an off ball player. DFS to me is a "3 and D" off ball player. So while they may play the same position I think it's the platoon of ball handling guards standing in his way. We use/will use Dwill, JJ, Seth, Harris, and now Yogi all before Simba. If we had a true 30+ min pg and 1 true backup pg instead of a platoon of guys I think he'd be on the floor more consistently.

Actually out of curiosity I went ahead and looked at his pre draft weaknesses again.

Jack of all trades, master of none. He’s good at many aspects of the game, but doesn’t excel in one particular area ... Ball-handling abilities can improve ... Lack of ball-handling skills limits his ability to create for himself on offense ... Does not engage his defender with advanced moves or fakes ... Relies on his teammates to get him open looks more than he should ... Has shown his ability to be a playmaker for his teammates, but needs to show that he can do it more often (averaged 1.8 assists per game during collegiate career) ... Needs to continue to work on developing consistency in his jumper. Somewhat unproven ... Lacks a soft touch around the rim ... Needs to work on dribble penetration and finishing at the rim with his right hand more ... Needs to develop a more consistent pull-up game ... Despite his athleticism and length, he hasn’t put up the kind of rebounding numbers one would expect ... Does not get to the free throw line as much ... Sometimes forces up contested or bad shots around the basket ... Would rather use his athleticism to go up for boards than getting in position and boxing out ... Can sometimes get caught sleeping on defense, resulting in him being out of position...

Basically that whole paragraph we still saw quite regularly from him earlier in the year. I think the Mavs want bigger things from him than he's showing. And his benching is just them trying to get him to seize the potential he has. But as long as we are trying to put the players on the floor that most help us win he's not going to see much time with this current roster. But I think he has the tools to be a 14-15ppg 5-7reb 3 assist good defense type player if he can ever just put it all together. I think he has the potential to be a more offensive Aminu player. Aminu was 12/7/1 for us in the playoffs his final year. Last year Aminu was 14/8/2 in the playoffs for the Blazers. And I definitely think Simba has the tools to be better than Aminu because Aminu never had an ounce of playmaking to his game.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

How I wish we could just combine DFS's feel for the game with Simba's athletic gifts. The biggest complaint with Simba I have is his feel for the game. Knowing when to switch on defense, when to play aggressive and just where to be on the floor in general. I still think the best way for him to learn these things is to be on the floor playing. We aren't a good enough team though to try to win and put him on the floor to learn.

They need to decide what to do with him by this off season though. I don't even think it's DFS who is keeping Simba off the floor. When he's been on the floor he's definitely trying to attack the paint and many times he's given the ball on the wing to initiate a play call, which tells me that the coaching staff wants him to do more than be a "3 and D" guy and entirely an off ball player. DFS to me is a "3 and D" off ball player. So while they may play the same position I think it's the platoon of ball handling guards standing in his way. We use/will use Dwill, JJ, Seth, Harris, and now Yogi all before Simba. If we had a true 30+ min pg and 1 true backup pg instead of a platoon of guys I think he'd be on the floor more consistently.

Actually out of curiosity I went ahead and looked at his pre draft weaknesses again.


Basically that whole paragraph we still saw quite regularly from him earlier in the year. I think the Mavs want bigger things from him than he's showing. And his benching is just them trying to get him to seize the potential he has. But as long as we are trying to put the players on the floor that most help us win he's not going to see much time with this current roster. But I think he has the tools to be a 14-15ppg 5-7reb 3 assist good defense type player if he can ever just put it all together. I think he has the potential to be a more offensive Aminu player. Aminu was 12/7/1 for us in the playoffs his final year. Last year Aminu was 14/8/2 in the playoffs for the Blazers. And I definitely think Simba has the tools to be better than Aminu because Aminu never had an ounce of playmaking to his game.

I'm thinking Anderson might just be a late bloomer and the Mavs should be patient with him yet let him play. I do agree the 2 PG lineups that Rick plays, pushing Wes to the 3, has made Anderson the odd man out of the rotation and is hurting his development. So I think it is both DFS and Curry that are keeping Anderson off the court with their surprisingly rapid development in Rick's system. It will be interesting to see what happens when DWill and JJ comes back. DFS and Yogi will probably be the two that will be the most impacted, and Mejri when Bogut comes back, and then we'll revert back to old slow boring vet ball.

As I mentioned, I do think Anderson's PT will increase as Wes ages and at 23 he has plenty of time if the Mavs will be patient enough with him.
I do think a lot of that will depend on who we draft this year. If it is one of the tier 1 or tier 2 SFs in this draft I'd say the Mavs will move on from Anderson. If they draft a PG or Center I'd say the Mavs will be able to be patient and let him develop into a rotational player.

[sefant77]

Its way too early to give up on Anderson. But its pretty obvious that there are no reasons anymore to re-sign Deron or Harris. Time to move on with the young guys in the backcourt. And if we need veterans on the court, we still can throw out Barea and Wes.

Yogi/Barea
Seth/Anderson
Wes/DFS/Brussino
Barnes/Powell
Dirk

Since Rick loves 2-PG / 3 Guad Lineups i would even bring PJ back on a two year deal. Draft should be anyway BPA and then go after the missing pieces in the FA, probably center.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I know I mentioned him before but with us really not looking like a top 8-10 pick team anymore... Luke Kennard might be the most efficient perimeter player I've seen in a while. Giles isn't playing yet and he does have Tatum and Allen on the team so I'm sure he isn't seeing super tough defense. But I have absolutely never heard of a perimeter player who takes 13 shots a game scoring 20ppg on 68% TS. Yeah .... 68%. Malik Monk, who might be top 5-8 is 63% on 18 shots so that's impressive as well. But Kennard is currently expected to go in the top 20 not top 5. Not saying he's my favorite pick or that we need a SG... but I'm just trying to amp myself up for a 12-15 pick by seeing this really is a nice draft. I want a 2nd 1st round pick so badly.

[hayth.james.g]

Spend 4 years pleading with best FA available to come help us, only to whiff each time. Opportunity comes to pick in the top 5 of the deepest draft in 10 years and we decide the illusion of an 8 seed is worth getting swept for and losing any shot at a franchise player.

I know the counter to this is, "Well if they "try" to lose you are creating the wrong culture that is hard to turn around". I get it, but you can still make better decisions to "help" your time in the right direction.

#BitterFan

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I know the counter to this is, "Well if they "try" to lose you are creating the wrong culture that is hard to turn around". I get it, but you can still make better decisions to "help" your time in the right direction.

#BitterFan

No, the counter to this is that Mavs' fans want one more season of Dirk.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Spend 4 years pleading with best FA available to come help us, only to whiff each time. Opportunity comes to pick in the top 5 of the deepest draft in 10 years and we decide the illusion of an 8 seed is worth getting swept for and losing any shot at a franchise player.

I know the counter to this is, "Well if they "try" to lose you are creating the wrong culture that is hard to turn around". I get it, but you can still make better decisions to "help" your time in the right direction.

#BitterFan

They are legitimately in a tough place. It's hard to "tell" guys to lose on purpose. These are all hyper competitive guys who are in the league in part because of that. Even playing meaningless pick-up games can seem like game7 of the nba finals if you have a court filled with competitive guys who want to win.

The flipside: one year of tanking probably isn't going to create a "losing culture". Heck, Barnes, our best foundation piece, won a championship already. Our other best asset(Carlisle aside) is this draft pick. In that way it is irresponsible to not treat it as such in a quixotic quest to get swept(assuming they even get the 8th spot!)

It's a shame that Cuban took so long to learn- Mr. I Know the New CBA!-but at least he has in part finally learned to get out of the way some and develop youth. Worst part is they had the model all along down the road in San Antonio.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Spend 4 years pleading with best FA available to come help us, only to whiff each time. Opportunity comes to pick in the top 5 of the deepest draft in 10 years and we decide the illusion of an 8 seed is worth getting swept for and losing any shot at a franchise player.

I know the counter to this is, "Well if they "try" to lose you are creating the wrong culture that is hard to turn around". I get it, but you can still make better decisions to "help" your time in the right direction.

#BitterFan

I just don't see it that way. We are winning with the young guys right now so the culture has already changed in the best way possible. We are winning with youth so we should be happy that guys like Barnes, Curry, DFS and Yogi have taken their games to much higher levels than were expected. This puts us several years ahead in the rebuild process and with guys like Curry and Barnes in their mid-20s we need to be even more happy about the winning ways of this team right now.

If we are playing for draft picks to blow this thing completely up and start at the bottom we might as well trade Curry and Barnes right now and spend the next 4 to 5 years competing with Philly and Minny for the BPA in the next 4 or 5 drafts. IDK about you but I'd rather not go down that path.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Its way too early to give up on Anderson. But its pretty obvious that there are no reasons anymore to re-sign Deron or Harris. Time to move on with the young guys in the backcourt. And if we need veterans on the court, we still can throw out Barea and Wes.

Yogi/Barea
Seth/Anderson
Wes/DFS/Brussino
Barnes/Powell
Dirk

Since Rick loves 2-PG / 3 Guad Lineups i would even bring PJ back on a two year deal. Draft should be anyway BPA and then go after the missing pieces in the FA, probably center.

Pretty much agree with all of this but I would be willing to give up Anderson in the right situation. If we can bring back a mid-round pick by including Anderson with one of our old vets then I'm all for it. For instance if Portland becomes desperate to dump some salary and would offer their 1st and Crabbe for Bogut/Harris/Anderson/2nd I'd be somewhat interested in that deal. Crabbe would be a great fit in our system and we could probably go big with that pick (perhaps Patton). I'd also be open to moving him for a young big with some upside.

I can't see any scenario where I'd be happy with Bogut, DWill and Harris on this team next year. I'm fine with Barea, Wes and Dirk as our only 30+ vets but we simply can't have a half dozen of them because we know Rick will play them over youth more often than not which will absolutely kill us long-term.

[Thebo]

How exactly would Crabbe fit in a system where you have Curry, Matthews, Barnes and DFS? Add to that, RC loving to use point guard on SG position because they penetrate and pass well. Crabbe is also playing well enough not to be considered as a salary dump and I do not see that any team is getting him without giving 1st round pick back.

I do not think anyone is expecting Bogut to be back for next season. Hard to see him finishing this season. I do not mind moving Harris or Barea (if Yogi is able to keep producing). I am willing to see DWill back on cheaper contract, which he seems to be going to do. He will only join Cavs or Warriors for championship. I doubt he is interested in joining a contender that is not necessarily able to beat either of those two teams (like Raptors, LAC, Boston and so on).

I do think that it is time to move on from 3-headed injury dragon. Harris-Barea-DWill are either playing and taking minutes from potential youngsters or they are injured and taking up roster spots. One can argue that Mavs have a lack of rotation on front court because 2 out of these 3 are constantly injured and taking roster spots from potential center fillers.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Thebo

How exactly would Crabbe fit in a system where you have Curry, Matthews, Barnes and DFS? Add to that, RC loving to use point guard on SG position because they penetrate and pass well. Crabbe is also playing well enough not to be considered as a salary dump and I do not see that any team is getting him without giving 1st round pick back.

Not necessarily suggesting that particular trade as much as trying to come up with an example of a situation where I'd part with Anderson.
But anyone that shoots nearly 45% from the 3 would be a fit in Rick's or anyone's system.

[sefant77]

Im not a fan of moving Barea because he has a bargain contract.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Im not a fan of moving Barea because he has a bargain contract.

I'd like for Dirk, JJ and Wes to stay on the team as vets. I'm ok with Mejri too in a limited backup role.
I'm sure we'll have a chance at getting DWill on a bargain deal too but my concern is that too many of these vets will perpetuate an old core strategy that is becoming boring and ineffective. It's very refreshing to watch this young group play and bring some spunk back to the team.
I'm beginning to have a little hope and kinda excited about our future.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I love Harris but he more than any of the guards I think should be traded. Idk if anyone wants him and he may not be wanting to leave but he is a winner to me. Dwill has moments but he can be the biggest reason we lose as well as a reason we win. Harris I think belongs on a contender, he just plays winning basketball that doesn't show up in the box score. That's not really being discussed here but I thought I'd throw it out there. I want Devin to have a chance at a ring, Idk if he wants to leave Dallas though.

[Heezzi]

I think they should trade Bogut & Harris*in a package deal...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If Ferrell is the real deal, then I don't think Barea has a spot on this team anymore. And I LOVE what Barea has done the past two seasons, but you can't keep two short guards if Rick intends on continuing the multi-guard lineups.

I actually think Jose could help out a contender as much as anyone. But at some point the team will have to address the injury issues at the guard position. He has only played 18 games this season because his body just can't hold up to how hard he plays on the court anymore.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If Ferrell is the real deal, then I don't think Barea has a spot on this team anymore. And I LOVE what Barea has done the past two seasons, but you can't keep two short guards if Rick intends on continuing the multi-guard lineups.

I actually think Jose could help out a contender as much as anyone. But at some point the team will have to address the injury issues at the guard position. He has only played 18 games this season because his body just can't hold up to how hard he plays on the court anymore.

+1

Totally. This is only reason why I do not mind trading JJ. I love what he has given to Dallas but injuries are wearing him down and if Yogi is able to keep up, you can not have both. Someone has to go, otherwise, who is going to be sitting on the bench when everyone is healthy? Yogi?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Thebo

+1

Totally. This is only reason why I do not mind trading JJ. I love what he has given to Dallas but injuries are wearing him down and if Yogi is able to keep up, you can not have both. Someone has to go, otherwise, who is going to be sitting on the bench when everyone is healthy? Yogi?

Yogi could be my very favorite story of 2016-2017, but dude has to show a lot more than he has for me to say that he makes Barea obsolete.

Barea has shown that he can step up and make a huge difference at every single level-- including on a championship team, including 15 and 17 pts in the two games we needed to close out the Heat in the finals.

Yogi is awesome, but Barea is both awesome and a proven commodity.

[rimrocker]

It doesn't really matter which one of the vet PGs remain on the team as long as it is only one or maybe two.
There's a place for Yogi and Barea together on this team and Barea is under contract so I give him the nod over DWill and Harris. I could live with Harris next season too in a limited role but signing DWill would be a bad idea for the development of our youth imo. If he shows any signs of being healthy Rick will play him 30+ minutes and quite frankly I don't think he has the desire and heart at this stage of his career to fit with this team. It's as if he is just riding out his career and has found a good place to do it.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Yogi is awesome, but Barea is both awesome and a proven commodity.

I agree but shouldn't we be using our commodity to get draft picks or move to a younger team? JJB and DH both would be huge for a team like Cleveland.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

You can't let sentimentality get in the way of reality. Barea hasn't been 100% the whole season and has only played in 18 games.

The young guys show up to play every night even if they aren't as talented.

Injuries have had as much of a negative impact as the lack of talent on this team.

The only vets I actually care about keeping are Dirk, for obvious reasons, and Matthews because he shows up to play every night.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You can't let sentimentality get in the way of reality. Barea hasn't been 100% the whole season and has only played in 18 games.

The young guys show up to play every night even if they aren't as talented.

Injuries have had as much of a negative impact as the lack of talent on this team.

The only vets I actually care about keeping are Dirk, for obvious reasons, and Matthews because he shows up to play every night.

No Barnes?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

No Barnes?

Barnes is only 24 years old... Seems like "veterans" in this league tend to be pushing 30 (like, 27-28 seems to be the cutoff point).

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yeah, I was more talking about the old hat vets. I wasn't including Barnes or Curry.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Lonzo Ball's brother Lamelo scored 92 points in a high school game. He's listed at 6'3, which means he's probably 6'1. Probably still too tall for us?

[saclare]

I think someone is going to get a steal with Adebayo in the mid-1st round. But if we are top 10, it would be hard to justify, as of now. Kid has shown some improvement, but he has yet to find a way to stay out of foul trouble consistently.

I also keep seeing Caleb Swanigan anywhere from late 1st to mid 2nd. If we talk about addressing needs, it would be nice to get him as a back-up 4/5 to help shore up some rebounding.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

I think someone is going to get a steal with Adebayo in the mid-1st round. But if we are top 10, it would be hard to justify, as of now. Kid has shown some improvement, but he has yet to find a way to stay out of foul trouble consistently.

I also keep seeing Caleb Swanigan anywhere from late 1st to mid 2nd. If we talk about addressing needs, it would be nice to get him as a back-up 4/5 to help shore up some rebounding.

Bam is tough. Dude is almost a lock to be a decent starter/top reserve. He just has no chance of being a star. Teams just don't take guys who have no potential to be stars in the lottery, but his current talent level is as good as any of them. His cap is just way lower than guys like Ntilinka.

Dude could go as high as 8-10, but I foresee him dropping to the 20-30 range where he's an absolute steal, because teams would rather buy a lottery ticket to win a million than take a guaranteed $500.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Watching Florida State vs NC State. Smith and Isaac on the floor. Prolly won't be high enough to get either of them but man... Isaac to me has such a crazy ceiling.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Watching Florida State vs NC State. Smith and Isaac on the floor. Prolly won't be high enough to get either of them but man... Isaac to me has such a crazy ceiling.

Dennis Smith Jr is struggling. Held scoreless in the 1st half.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Dennis Smith Jr is struggling. Held scoreless in the 1st half.

Yeah I missed the 2nd half, but it looks like it didn't get better for him. 8pts 6ast for a top 5 player ain't good. Florida St has a really good defense and they are all long, and they took him away entirely.

Isaac looked great start to finish though it looks like. Bacon looked good too, He's projected as an early 2 late 1 but if Florida St keeps playing this way he's not going in the 2nd.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Lonzo Ball's brother Lamelo scored 92 points in a high school game. He's listed at 6'3, which means he's probably 6'1. Probably still too tall for us?

https://twitter.com/nballaccess/stat...949952/video/1

I take it back, the 92 points might be the cheesiest thing I've ever seen. His defense is only slightly better than James Harden.... who I blame entirely for this.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yeah I missed the 2nd half, but it looks like it didn't get better for him. 8pts 6ast for a top 5 player ain't good. Florida St has a really good defense and they are all long, and they took him away entirely.

Isaac looked great start to finish though it looks like. Bacon looked good too, He's projected as an early 2 late 1 but if Florida St keeps playing this way he's not going in the 2nd.

They had full court pressure on him all game and were double teaming him right as he crossed midcourt. Clearly FSU had a gameplan to not let him get going. You could tell by his body language he was frustrated.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Bam is tough. Dude is almost a lock to be a decent starter/top reserve. He just has no chance of being a star. Teams just don't take guys who have no potential to be stars in the lottery, but his current talent level is as good as any of them. His cap is just way lower than guys like Ntilinka.

Dude could go as high as 8-10, but I foresee him dropping to the 20-30 range where he's an absolute steal, because teams would rather buy a lottery ticket to win a million than take a guaranteed $500.

That's a good analogy. There are definitely guys with higher ceilings, I'm just not sold on how low his has been set.