2014 Offseason Thread

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by CapitanObvious

I guess it helps that one of your newest acquisition is a cutie and can sell stuff....to...women... WHAT?!

?

[EricaLubarsky]

Hard to compare apples to oranges, but I would put Rick as #2 active coaches (behind Pops) and perhaps in the top 10 all-time. Lots of different skills to master

1) Defense Xs/Os - Rick is probably the best in the league at this and even better than Pops
2) Offense Xs/Os - Ramsay/Riley are probably best all-time. Carlisle merely average.
3) Talent development/selection - Pops is the best who ever lived at this
4) Inspiration - Jackson triumphs, but Auerback is probably still best of all time
5) building chemistry - Lots of good coaches and Rick could be up there with them
6) Melding egos - Jackson is the best of all time
7) Dealing with difficult players/frustration - probably another Rick strength.

[yahyes]

Just imagine how much arsenal the Mavs offense can have once Jameer gets back into his game.

[ocelot_ark]

I fully expect him to have a great year. The Dirk effect is real. He'll get incredible looks. He'll get attack opportunities all of the time. Just an awesome signing. I have always just loved the way he competed. And all accounts are that he's a great guy & leader. Sounds like a typical Mavs vet.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hard to compare apples to oranges, but I would put Rick as #2 active coaches (behind Pops) and perhaps in the top 10 all-time. Lots of different skills to master

1) Defense Xs/Os - Rick is probably the best in the league at this and even better than Pops
2) Offense Xs/Os - Ramsay/Riley are probably best all-time. Carlisle merely average.
3) Talent development/selection - Pops is the best who ever lived at this
4) Inspiration - Jackson triumphs, but Auerback is probably still best of all time
5) building chemistry - Lots of good coaches and Rick could be up there with them
6) Melding egos - Jackson is the best of all time
7) Dealing with difficult players/frustration - probably another Rick strength.

I agree that RC in number two on the list of actives. Notice that I only compared him to Pop.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Kante

Could not care less what someone did for the military, to be honest.
...

Pointless comment.

[Jproxursoxoff]

Originally Posted by LSMF

?

CapitanObvious is clearly either gay or a female. What's your problem?

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DGM

Using his whole roster is not a RC strength. He has a tendency to ignore inexperienced players. I saw many times where Sarge would have been a better fit than B. Wright (like vs. the Spurs in the playoffs) yet he languished on the bench. He couldn't figure how to use Ellington last year. That's a big difference between him and Popovich. Pop plays all of his guys all year and has them ready when needed. It's going to be interesting to see how RC handles a deep roster.

This will be something to look for. Because almost everyone on this new roster deserves some minutes if the effort/chemistry is there. Thought there were times where Ellington couldve came in and contributed, but rarely got minutes.

Also like to add that Im drunk and my pug will not stop giving me the guilty eyes.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Just imagine how much arsenal the Mavs offense can have once Jameer gets back into his game.

Let's not act like we signed Chris Paul. Nelson is a very average NBA player at this point, with one good season like five years ago. He might be better than Harris at this point, but that doesn't say much. It's very-very naive to expect anything above average from Nelson at this point in his career, and unfortunately the same is true about Harris. Chances are, we'll have one of the worst PG rotations in the NBA next season. I'm very excited about the Chandlers, but man, our guard rotation is absolutely terrible.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

DGM, to be fair Rick Carlisle is a very good coach, but he's simply not on the same level as Gregg Popovich and Phil Jackson. Luckily, Jackson is not coaching right now, and Carlisle has more talent than Pop.

Originally Posted by dude1394

Pointless comment.

Dito.

[Budapest Maverick]

Lmao at Carlisle having more talent than Pop. Popovich is a genius, but the sad truth is that the Spurs roster is much better than ours.

[Budapest Maverick]

double post (i swear i only clicked once)

[Twenty4sevenn]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Let's not act like we signed Chris Paul. Nelson is a very average NBA player at this point, with one good season like five years ago. He might be better than Harris at this point, but that doesn't say much. It's very-very naive to expect anything above average from Nelson at this point in his career, and unfortunately the same is true about Harris. Chances are, we'll have one of the worst PG rotations in the NBA next season. I'm very excited about the Chandlers, but man, our guard rotation is absolutely terrible.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

9,7/3/5,6 on 39% shooting, 31% from three, on 47%TS

7,9/2,1/4,5 on 37% shooting, 30% from three, on 51%TS

12,1/3,4/7 on 39% shooting, 34% from three, on 51% TS



All of those guys are past 30, and they have one thing in common, having one good season in their career, which to two of them led to all-star appearances. Devin's impact in his all-star season was terrible, i might add. And don't even start saying Nelson will turn into an all-star next to Dirk, playing for Carlisle. It's not 2011 anymore.

Did Devin turn into a good player last year? No, he was terrible. Many forgot that because he played two good games in the playoffs. That's all it was, two good game. Did Calderon turn into an all-star last season?

No, he didn't. Again, i'm very optimistic about the Chandlers, and i think we will better this year than we were last season, but being optimistic about point guard rotation, really? Why?

[Drouche]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Let's not act like we signed Chris Paul. Nelson is a very average NBA player at this point, with one good season like five years ago. He might be better than Harris at this point, but that doesn't say much. It's very-very naive to expect anything above average from Nelson at this point in his career, and unfortunately the same is true about Harris. Chances are, we'll have one of the worst PG rotations in the NBA next season. I'm very excited about the Chandlers, but man, our guard rotation is absolutely terrible.

It's not about video game ratings. It's about fit and what we need. They all fit extremely well with out system, they're all veterans, and they can shoot well enough.

"Worst guard rotations in the league."

I'm going to ignore that, seeing as how our 2 guard is arguably top 5 in the league.

Is PG our weakest spot? Sure. But you don't look at it as PG on our team to PG on other teams.

You look at it from "weakness on our team" compared with weakness on others. And from that vantage point, if Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris, and Raymond Felton make for your weakest position, and by far at that, then your team is in great freaking shape.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Drouche

It's not about video game ratings. It's about fit and what we need. They all fit extremely well with out system, they're all veterans, and they can shoot well enough.

"Worst guard rotations in the league."

I'm going to ignore that, seeing as how our 2 guard is arguably top 5 in the league.

Is PG our weakest spot? Sure. But you don't look at it as PG on our team to PG on other teams.

You look at it from "weakness on our team" compared with weakness on others. And from that vantage point, if Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris, and Raymond Felton make for your weakest position, and by far at that, then your team is in great freaking shape.

Oh please, don't be condescending, i always look at our team from a "fit" and chemistry standpoint, and i try to build a quality argument even when i'm not as optimistic as you guys. You guys always go crazy when somebody takes off their rose-colored glasses.

Our point guard rotation will be one of the weakest in the NBA next season, period. Those guys are past their best years, they are injury prone, inconsistent, and no, they are not particularly good fits, they don't excel at anything that would make us better, and what's important for us.

They are not particularly good at spacing the floor, they're not particularly good at passing, and they're poor defensive fits, even Devin at this point in his career. They will one of the oldest, smallest, worst shooting point guard rotation next season, unless Nelson can miraculously turn back the hands of time.

Honestly, I don't even know how you guys can call this rotation adequate with a straight face, but when i see a poster implying that Nelson - for some reason - will carve up the league next season, i have to say something, because it's ridiculous. It's a terrible point guard rotation, and those guys were consistently terrible in the last 2-3 seasons.

[Twenty4sevenn]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

9,7/3/5,6 on 39% shooting, 31% from three, on 47%TS

7,9/2,1/4,5 on 37% shooting, 30% from three, on 51%TS

12,1/3,4/7 on 39% shooting, 34% from three, on 51% TS



All of those guys are past 30, and they have one thing in common, having one good season in their career, which to two of them led to all-star appearances. Devin's impact in his all-star season was terrible, i might add. And don't even start saying Nelson will turn into an all-star next to Dirk, playing for Carlisle. It's not 2011 anymore.

Did Devin turn into a good player last year? No, he was terrible. Many forgot that because he played two good games in the playoffs. That's all it was, two good game. Did Calderon turn into an all-star last season?

No, he didn't. Again, i'm very optimistic about the Chandlers, and i think we will better this year than we were last season, but being optimistic about point guard rotation, really? Why?

If you really think Devin Harris was "terrible" last season, you should consider laying off the booze and actually watching a basketball game for the first time in your life.

[Budapest Maverick]

Also, i absolutely loved the other acquisitions, i always thought Aminu had nice potential. I think Parsons will be great for us, and although Chandler had an unfortunate injury last year, his knees and ankles are in good shape, so with a little bit of luck, he could stay healthy. I fully expect Parsons to have a borderline all-star season, but again, i just cannot not hate that point guard rotation, for 2014. If it were 2008, i'd be ecstatic.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

If you really think Devin Harris was "terrible" last season, you should consider laying off the booze and actually watching a basketball game for the first time in your life.

Are you serious? Please, educate me, what did he do outside of those two playoff games? Has he consistently helped our defense? Guards killed us last season, and we had a pathetic defense. Floor spacing? He shot terribly, all season long. Penetration? He was nowhere near as effective as he was during his peak years, Monta had to all the heavy lifting in that department. I like Devin too btw, he's a nice guy, one of my favorite Maverick ever, but he was terrible last year.

[jthig32]

If you think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by age, ok. Then he's a marginal NBA PG.

If he think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by lack of talent around him, and think he can return previous form, then he's likely to shoot 38-40% from three while providing stability at the PG spot.

Our PG's aren't going to set the world on fire, but I'm not sure how many more examples we have to see of guys scuffling before getting here and then righting themselves due to playing for a quality organization with a generational offensive player and a great coach before we stop making emphatic assumptions based on a player's recent history.

[jthig32]

Also, Devin was coming off a pretty weird injury last year. He had to re-learn a lot of things related to running, planting, etc.

I expect a noticeable uptick in his productivity this year.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by age, ok. Then he's a marginal NBA PG.

If he think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by lack of talent around him, and think he can return previous form, then he's likely to shoot 38-40% from three while providing stability at the PG spot.

Our PG's aren't going to set the world on fire, but I'm not sure how many more examples we have to see of guys scuffling before getting here and then righting themselves due to playing for a quality organization with a generational offensive player and a great coach before we stop making emphatic assumptions based on a player's recent history.

Preach.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by age, ok. Then he's a marginal NBA PG.

If he think Jameer's last two seasons were caused mostly by lack of talent around him, and think he can return previous form, then he's likely to shoot 38-40% from three while providing stability at the PG spot.

Our PG's aren't going to set the world on fire, but I'm not sure how many more examples we have to see of guys scuffling before getting here and then righting themselves due to playing for a quality organization with a generational offensive player and a great coach before we stop making emphatic assumptions based on a player's recent history.

I would generally agree with you, but unfortunately, all three of those players had very little success in the NBA as focal points. Remember, even when Devin was so promising for us, let's face it, he failed when they've tried to make him a focal point, and our starting point guard.


Nelson had many seasons with Howard and some relatively good talent, yet he had that really good season he could never really recreate, and unfortunately, this is a trend with the other two as well. The outlier with those, was a single good season, with some average thrown in, and 5-6 below average. And we are talking about 10 season veterans.


It's not nearly the same as it was with Ellis imo. Ellis was healthy in the last couple years, and still on the better side of thirty. Now, these guys looked close to being done for the better parts of the last 3-4 seasons. I do think Nelson could be a serviceable floor spacer though, he's the only one who has a chance to do that from that rotation. Giving us anything else though? I highly doubt it, but of course i'd love to be wrong.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Also, Devin was coming off a pretty weird injury last year. He had to re-learn a lot of things related to running, planting, etc.

I expect a noticeable uptick in his productivity this year.

I hope you are right, but he didn't look good between 2009 and 2011 either. His 2011/2012 campaign was solid, although he only played 63 games. If Devin could shoot, he would be a perfect role player for us...

[dude1394]

I do not understand "focal point"? I expect my points to control the game, hit open shots and corral the guys when they get out of sorts. I expect them to give up the ball quickly and purposefully.

Jameer looks to be an average point. Felton I don't know about and devin is below average to me because he still just cannot freaking shoot after a decade in the league. Hopefully he will make sure he takes a few steps into the circle instead of shooting threes off the dribble.

That said we won't have a bunch of boneheads out there and will have an average point guard rotation.

Average is average.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I do not understand "focal point"? I expect my points to control the game, hit open shots and corral the guys when they get out of sorts. I expect them to give up the ball quickly and purposefully.

Jameer looks to be an average point. Felton I don't know about and devin is below average to me because he still just cannot freaking shoot after a decade in the league. Hopefully he will make sure he takes a few steps into the circle instead of shooting threes off the dribble.

That said we won't have a bunch of boneheads out there and will have an average point guard rotation.

Average is average.

In that sense, you are right, Devin, Nelson, and even Felton, usually take care of the ball, they won't have many turnovers. The problem is, they're still flawed players, Nelson is a consistently bad defender, Devin can't shoot, and Felton is very average at everything, although capable of scoring in bursts, wouldn't be surprised if Rick would use him as a scorer for the second unit, playing with Harris, off-ball. Also, yes, they won't be expected to be focal points here, that's obvious, and i'm glad for that, because that just gives them a little bit higher chance to contribute.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I would generally agree with you, but unfortunately, all three of those players had very little success in the NBA as focal points. Remember, even when Devin was so promising for us, let's face it, he failed when they've tried to make him a focal point, and our starting point guard.


Nelson had many seasons with Howard and some relatively good talent, yet he had that really good season he could never really recreate, and unfortunately, this is a trend with the other two as well. The outlier with those, was a single good season, with some average thrown in, and 5-6 below average. And we are talking about 10 season veterans.


It's not nearly the same as it was with Ellis imo. Ellis was healthy in the last couple years, and still on the better side of thirty. Now, these guys looked close to being done for the better parts of the last 3-4 seasons. I do think Nelson could be a serviceable floor spacer though, he's the only one who has a chance to do that from that rotation. Giving us anything else though? I highly doubt it, but of course i'd love to be wrong.

I guess I don't really understand what your baseline is for "good". We need one or two of these guys to be our 5th or 6th best player. If Tyson returns to form we currently have four starters that are each somewhere between elite and solidly above average at their positions. We have bench rotation players that possess elite singular skills (RJ as three point threat, Aminu rebounding, Wright efficient scoring).

In Dirk, Monta, Parsons and Tyson we also have guys that are all well above average in their ability to see the floor and move the ball at their position. We don't NEED a dynamic PG to complete this offense.

I agree that that the fit could be better. The ideal fit at PG would be a defensive ace that can drain from three. But having a middling PG rotation is just not going to sink this team, imo.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

So strange to focus so negatively on the PG position when some of you clearly aren't looking at the makeup of the team. If you want a better defensive or three point shooting pg (as thig said), fine, you win. Otherwise, the playmaking should be quite substantial. Remember that Parsons averaged 4 apg last year. That is a whopping .7 less than Calderon. And Nelson, Felton, Monta, and Harris can get you plenty of assists on a given night. I just think it's greedy to want a huge upgrade at this position when there is only so much cap space to spend on a roster. If we had other glaring holes, then I'd happily agree. We don't. And one of Harris, Nelson, and Felton are due for a nice come back season anyway.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hard to compare apples to oranges, but I would put Rick as #2 active coaches (behind Pops) and perhaps in the top 10 all-time. Lots of different skills to master

1) Defense Xs/Os - Rick is probably the best in the league at this and even better than Pops
2) Offense Xs/Os - Ramsay/Riley are oribably best all-time. Carlisle merely average.
3) Talent development/selection - Pops is the best who ever lived at this
4) Inspiration - Jackson triumphs, but Auerback is probably still best of all time
5) building chemistry - Lots of good coaches and Rick could be up there with them
6) Melding egos - Jackson is the best of all time
7) Dealing with difficult players/frustration - probably another Rick strength.

Yikes! Some "dear Lord" level sort of yikes in here. The perspective is so naively narrow, to be ranking things in terms of "all time." (It's like only about six coaches even got consideration.) And still at that, Pops as the best who ever lived at talent development and selection? Oh, dear. This misses Pops by so, so far.

[Thespiralgoeson]

I think Budapest Maverick is being a tad bit harsh, but I tend to agree with his overall sentiment. Our PG rotation is pretty lousy. Not the worst in the league, but in the bottom half. I'm not expecting much out of them.

But as jthig pointed out, we don't need a dynamic point to be successful this season. We only need merely adequate production out of that position.

[grndmstr_c]

With the Nelson signing I see the Mavs as strong at backup PG and, provided Jameer starts and benefits from the move to Dallas like I think he can, adequate at starting PG, which is to say near the bottom among playoff teams, but with some nicely complementary strengths on the offensive end of the court and in the context of the remaining roster makeup. The lack of size/defense in the starting backcourt might ultimately bite the team in the ass, but my concern there is dwarfed by my satisfaction with the upgrades that the team made at starting SF and C.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Yikes! Some "dear Lord" level sort of yikes in here. The perspective is so naively narrow, to be ranking things in terms of "all time." (It's like only about six coaches even got consideration.) And still at that, Pops as the best who ever lived at talent development and selection? Oh, dear. This misses Pops by so, so far.

Is it really that much of a stretch? If he isn't the best, I think he certainly deserves to be in the discussion. I'm trying to think of other coaches that have had more success finding diamonds in the rough and leading groups of previously unknown players to multiple championships. I'm drawing a blank.

[SeriousSummer]

I don't see much of an issue with the point guards on offense. With Dirk, Monta, Parsons to make plays and Tyson to finish if his man leaves him, Dallas should have plenty of offense--and there is enough off the bench as well.

The point guard just needs to get the ball up the court and give to one of those guys, and not be such a nonfactor on offense that his man can't go double team with paying a penalty. I think any of Nelson, Felton and Harris are good enough to fulfill that function. There are only so many shots anyway, and the Mavs have enough guys to take them.

Defense worries me. With such short guards there's a risk of the other team posting up or just shooting over the Maverick's guards. Switching on the pick and roll isn't even much of an option. Some bigger guards may just be able to pull up and shoot over the Mavs defender who won't be tall enough to bother their shot.

Of course, if they can just stay in front of the man they're guarding, that may be an improvement over some of what we've seen in the past. Winning 135 to 120 is still winning, and probably good enough in the regular season. Maybe not in the play offs.

Remember Eric Snow who paired up with Iverson in some of his best years? Snow wasn't fast, couldn't shoot and wasn't a great playmaker, but he was big, a good defender, and didn't turn the ball over. I think that's the kind of point guard that would pair best with Ellis.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Yikes! Some "dear Lord" level sort of yikes in here. The perspective is so naively narrow, to be ranking things in terms of "all time." (It's like only about six coaches even got consideration.) And still at that, Pops as the best who ever lived at talent development and selection? Oh, dear. This misses Pops by so, so far.

Perhaps you'd like to contribute then. Who is better at finding and developing guys than he is?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Remember Eric Snow who paired up with Iverson in some of his best years? Snow wasn't fast, couldn't shoot and wasn't a great playmaker, but he was big, a good defender, and didn't turn the ball over. I think that's the kind of point guard that would pair best with Ellis.

That's why I wish we still had Jason Kidd around. He'd be perfect next to Ellis.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Remember Eric Snow who paired up with Iverson in some of his best years? Snow wasn't fast, couldn't shoot and wasn't a great playmaker, but he was big, a good defender, and didn't turn the ball over. I think that's the kind of point guard that would pair best with Ellis.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That's why I wish we still had Jason Kidd around. He'd be perfect next to Ellis.

Seems like there aren't many PGs built like that in the league anymore... And the few that do have a bit of size don't seem interested in playing defense (like Calderon).

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Seems like there aren't many PGs built like that in the league anymore... And the few that do have a bit of size don't seem interested in playing defense (like Calderon).

Calderon tries. Just not capable.

Too bad Livingston and Rubio can't shoot.

[SeriousSummer]

Calathes fits at least part of the bill. I wonder how hard it would be to get him back from Memphis?

[SeriousSummer]

Calathes fits at least part of the bill. I wonder how hard it would be to get him back from Memphis?

[EastTxMFFL]

Rondo is a UFA next summer no? Is Dallas still in position to offer a huge contract next offseason?