LAD - Life After Deron

[CanadianMavsFan]

If the Mavericks are gonna gamble on Dwight again next year, can we please never post in the "It's not gonna happen but fun to think about..." thread? I think we can all agree that it was a massive jinx.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Okay, so let me play along for a minute...

Camby - FA to be signed - James
Nowitzki - Wright
Marion - Carter - Crowder
Allen - Cunningham
Nash - West - Beaubois

I would have fun rooting for that team, but I think that our backcourt would get chewed up on defense. Maybe Cunningham could have more of an impact than I think he would.

EDIT: Forgot West in my chart...

Really? Nash has his weaknesses on the defensive end, but I see Ray as a perfectly acceptable defender. I wouldn't imagine you'd be any worse off than Dallas was with Kidd/JET, and with Camby to anchor the back line I think you'd see that unit get plenty of stops when you consider how mind-blowingly good their shooting, ball-movement, and off-the-ball movement would be on the offensive end.

But when it comes down to it, if I'm being honest, a big reason I'm so high on that route is that I'd LOVE rooting for that team.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavsfan2thedeath

I'm not holding my breath for Nash. Reports seem to indicate that the Knicks are the favorite.

In addition to that, Sefko is reporting that other than Nash, the Mavs probably won't spend much of their cap room....which seems to take Dragic and Lin out of the equation as well. What a cluster **** this whole thing is

It will be really interesting if they not only fail to land Deron Williams but also miss out on Nash and Dragic (I don't think about Lin too much because he's an RFA that the Knicks are committed to keeping) AND refuse to match the offer to Terry. Who exactly will they trot out there to log the backcourt minutes next year?

[sike]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I wish I was dead.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Really? Nash has his weaknesses on the defensive end, but I see Ray as a perfectly acceptable defender. I wouldn't imagine you'd be any worse off than Dallas was with Kidd/JET, and with Camby to anchor the back line I think you'd see that unit get plenty of stops when you consider how mind-blowingly good their shooting, ball-movement, and off-the-ball movement would be on the offensive end.

But when it comes down to it, if I'm being honest, a big reason I'm so high on that route is that I'd LOVE rooting for that team.

I can get behind that. That said, it does look increasingly like Nash will be gone soon.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

It will be really interesting if they not only fail to land Deron Williams but also miss out on Nash and Dragic (I don't think about Lin too much because he's an RFA that the Knicks are committed to keeping) AND refuse to match the offer to Terry. Who exactly will they trot out there to log the backcourt minutes next year?

Roddy, DoJo, Cunningham, West

[mac222b]

Yup all things being relatively equal Nas will probably choose NY.
Heck, they have a better roster then we do anyhow at the moment

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Since I'm fleshing out scenarios...

Doesn't a Dragic/Roy backcourt get destroyed on defense just as badly as a Nash/Allen backcourt? I understand that we have to upgrade the backcourt offensively, but Roy isn't an upgrade over Terry (on either end) unless he is physically in a much different place than we last saw him, and Dragic (while undoubtedly a better offensive player than Kidd) is worse defensively.

Not really arguing with your scenario...just wondering aloud.

If you think you can count on Delonte West to be the third guard, then maybe it makes more sense, but he won't be closing games.

I'm basically resigned (not re-signed!) to us not getting a solid "two-way" backcourt to close games. Those types of players just aren't available.

Mix and matching situationally with Dragic, Roy, West, and ____ (Roddy? who knows) is about the best I can come up with. I wouldn't mind Nash, but he's not my preferred choice. Lin would be fine for about half of what he's bound to get paid.

[LonghornDub]

By the way, I don't think we're getting Allen. I'd be surprised.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

By the way, I don't think we're getting Allen. I'd be surprised.

Iverson?

[SchumiWDC]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Beyond any sign-and-trade talks, Mavericks remain in talks w/Steve Nash as well, sources say. I'm told Raps aren't conceding yet, either

Let's see what happens.

[sike]

Would that team compete against the likes of the Clips, OKC, SA?

I agree that the addition of Nash and Allen (along with the bitter taste from last season's pathetic slow start) would reinvigorate Dirk, but that team better have a Platinum Card Membership with Bengay or Icy Hot

But there is NO question that Nash to Dirk and Allen would be a thing of beauty to watch.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Okay, so let me play along for a minute...

Camby - FA to be signed - James
Nowitzki - Wright
Marion - Carter - Crowder
Allen - Cunningham
Nash - West - Beaubois

I would have fun rooting for that team, but I think that our backcourt would get chewed up on defense. Maybe Cunningham could have more of an impact than I think he would.

EDIT: Forgot West in my chart...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by xrobx

Iverson?

Allan Ray, from Villanova.

[sike]

Originally Posted by xrobx

Roddy, DoJo, Cunningham, West

That just punched me in the balls.

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Allan Ray, from Villanova.

I'm pretty sure he meant Tim Allen or perhaps Woody...I can't be sure, but I KNOW its between those two.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by xrobx

Roddy, DoJo, Cunningham, West

Worst backcourt in the league?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm basically resigned (not re-signed!) to us not getting a solid "two-way" backcourt to close games. Those types of players just aren't available.

Mix and matching situationally with Dragic, Roy, West, and ____ (Roddy? who knows) is about the best I can come up with. I wouldn't mind Nash, but he's not my preferred choice. Lin would be fine for about half of what he's bound to get paid.

Why do you prefer Dragic over Nash? Just asking out of curiosity.

Also, I agree about not having 2 way players. Kidd and Terry weren't 2 way players last year either.

[grndmstr_c]

So Stein's latest puts Nash's potential NY contract somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/25. Man, if that's all it takes...

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So Stein's latest puts Nash's potential NY contract somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/25. Man, if that's all it takes...

No kidding. That's a bargain. Plus, I'd get to watch Nash run the PnR with Dirk again.

Make it happen, Cubes!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So Stein's latest puts Nash's potential NY contract somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/25. Man, if that's all it takes...

If that's true, then I'm actually a little higher on Nash now - I figured he'd be in the $12M range, while Dragic would be more in the $9M range.... I obviously still like Dragic better long term, since he's 13 years younger than Nash and has the potential to become a top-10 PG in this league, but Nash is already a top-10 PG in this league (still) and definitely a better "win-now" option... If the money is about the same for both guys, then Nash is easily the better value.

[SMC0007]

Ugh God, NASH better be the last option. I want to see a new team, not the retirement home group of guys still knocking around.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

If that's true, then I'm actually a little higher on Nash now - I figured he'd be in the $12M range, while Dragic would be more in the $9M range.... I obviously still like Dragic better long term, since he's 13 years younger than Nash and has the potential to become a top-10 PG in this league, but Nash is already a top-10 PG in this league (still) and definitely a better "win-now" option... If the money is about the same for both guys, then Nash is easily the better value.

How the heck are we gonna "Win now"? I don't see a combination of players available that can get us back there. This is gonna take time, period.

Start building for the future and put some young pieces together.

[markus1234]

Nash(&Dirk) is definitely more "fun now" than Dragic.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

How the heck are we gonna "Win now"? I don't see a combination of players available that can get us back there. This is gonna take time, period.

Start building for the future and put some young pieces together.

Then look at players who aren't free agents... We're under the cap - we don't have to match salaries in a trade, and we have plenty of space to absorb incoming contracts.

[sike]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Start building for the future and put some young pieces together.

If this is the attitude (and I' not sure its the wrong one), why keep Dirk and not REALLY build for the future?

I'm honestly asking your opinion.

[Bayliss]

Just had a Bill Simmons type moment with my dad. I went over to my parent's house to eat and visit with them. Of course both of them are big Mav fans (similar to the way Simmons' dad is with the Celtc). Anyway my dad and I start talking about options they know have. I bring up Nash and Camby because the Mavs have expressed interest... and he looks at me and says: "You know it's sad when the coach is younger than all the players."

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sike

If this is the attitude (and I' not sure its the wrong one), why keep Dirk and not REALLY build for the future?

I'm honestly asking your opinion.

Mainly because I don't wanna see Dirk go

I think if they do it correctly they can use Dirk to help bridge the gap between where we are now and remodeling with young talent. Gotta hit on a young PG and make some good trades that pan out in our favor.

I just don't wanna back track with Nash. He still has game left but he seems like such a risk with his back and his age. That is the position that we need here desperately and I would rather slightly over pay Dragic than get Nash for a good deal.

I'm ok with getting Camby, in fact I hope that is a priority. I like the idea of Roy too.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by aexchange

- Someone also let me know if we have a portion of the trade exception left over from the Chandler S&T last year? We used a portion to absorb Odom, but am not sure if we still have the remainder left to use

Current trade exceptions:

Lamar Odom - $8.2M (expires June, 2013)
Tyson Chandler - $4.2M (expires December, 2012)
Corey Brewer - $3M (expires December, 2012)
Rudy Fernandez - $2.1M (expires December, 2012)

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

How the heck are we gonna "Win now"? I don't see a combination of players available that can get us back there. This is gonna take time, period.

Start building for the future and put some young pieces together.

I say we pay Lin and bring back Kidd as the backup PG and player-coach to mentor Lin.

[Melonhead]

Damnit cuban. Get nash. I need some nostalgia in my life. 3/25 isnt a problem at all.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So Stein's latest puts Nash's potential NY contract somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/25. Man, if that's all it takes...

But then it's clearly not (just) about the money, since Toronto already offered him 3/36, and trying to find ways to even increase that. It looks like you guys were right, and he simply prefers that damn apple.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Worst backcourt in the league?

Easily, lol.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Just had a Bill Simmons type moment with my dad. I went over to my parent's house to eat and visit with them. Of course both of them are big Mav fans (similar to the way Simmons' dad is with the Celtc). Anyway my dad and I start talking about options they know have. I bring up Nash and Camby because the Mavs have expressed interest... and he looks at me and says: "You know it's sad when the coach is younger than all the players."

You ate your parents?

[sike]

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1199182...EAnMak.twitter

DallasBasketball.com has learned that as we write this (3:08 p.m. Dallas time) the Mavs are in negotiations with both Steve Nash and his soon-to-be ex-employer the Suns. The Knicks are trying to engineer a sign-and-trade for Nash (maybe worth $27 mil over three). The Raptors already sold the farm in their three-year, $32 mil bid.

The Mavs want in. Their offer? We are told is is the $8.8 million TE they received in the Odom dump.

Is that enough? Remember that the decision isn't up to the Suns, but rather up to Nash. And Dallas' years

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Yes, I know. I think that's when you really just demolish the whole building.

I would honestly love that, but i'm sceptic as i wrote the other day. Cuban is not a fan of the "blowing it up" route. Maybe after Dirk retires, he will realize it is maybe a necessary bad in order to get back to contention in a couple years. And maybe we could be back by 2017-2018, the Thunder could be still up there, but that Heat thing is probably over by that time. I guess i went a little too far ahead.

[purplefrog]

I can't figure out the CBA but it seems like if you go over the cap then you are allowed to use a MLE and other exceptions. Is that right? If so then why not go over the cap by doing the following:

See if the Suns would accept the 8.2 trade exception for Nash. Give him 3 years at around $27M.
Match the Celtics offer to JET (can they do this because he is the Mavs FA?).
Sign Delonte.

Then they use their exceptions (MLE; BAE) to go out and sign Courtney Lee and/or Camby and/or Kaman.

I realize this would put them into tax territory and it might not make good business sense, but you could always plan on using the amnesty for Haywood and trade Matrix in 2013 or 2014. Seems to me like the tax would be minimal. This would give the Mavs a competitive team for a couple of years and at the same time give the fans a fun team to watch.

At one time Lee was considered a pretty good two-way player so the defense would be acceptable with the first string (Nash, Lee, Matrix, Dirk, Camby) and not that bad with the second team (West, JET, Carter, Wright, Haywood or Kaman).

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sike

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1199182...EAnMak.twitter

DallasBasketball.com has learned that as we write this (3:08 p.m. Dallas time) the Mavs are in negotiations with both Steve Nash and his soon-to-be ex-employer the Suns. The Knicks are trying to engineer a sign-and-trade for Nash (maybe worth $27 mil over three). The Raptors already sold the farm in their three-year, $32 mil bid.

The Mavs want in. Their offer? We are told is is the $8.8 million TE they received in the Odom dump.

Is that enough? Remember that the decision isn't up to the Suns, but rather up to Nash. And Dallas' years

Some numbers there are a little off, but I was thinking if NY was coming in not too far above 25, that might bring the Odom TE into play. Gotta believe Dallas is willing to go 3 years at that price, or why would Steve even listen.

If the Mavs can pull this off (not counting on Steve taking a pay cut until I see it happen, of course) it'll be excellent news. Steve's a terrific bargain at that price point, and it would allow the Mavs to stay over the cap to bring him in, opening up the use of the full MLE, and giving them a chance to structure JET's departure as a S&T to allow them to potentially land another quality rotation player.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1199182...EAnMak.twitter

DallasBasketball.com has learned that as we write this (3:08 p.m. Dallas time) the Mavs are in negotiations with both Steve Nash and his soon-to-be ex-employer the Suns. The Knicks are trying to engineer a sign-and-trade for Nash (maybe worth $27 mil over three). The Raptors already sold the farm in their three-year, $32 mil bid.

The Mavs want in. Their offer? We are told is is the $8.8 million TE they received in the Odom dump.

Is that enough? Remember that the decision isn't up to the Suns, but rather up to Nash. And Dallas' years

If we offered him three years, the 3rd would likely be a team option... I imagine the Knicks would do the same thing.

I'm guessing the only place he'll get 3 years guaranteed is in Toronto, but it obviously isn't just about the money for him.

[sike]

I'd love to get yall's thoughts on something I haven't heard anyone mention recently...

What impact, if ANY, could the way Nash left Dallas for PHX still leave a bad taste in Cuban's mouth? Mark doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who easily lets go of slights or failures. I wonder how he perceives Nash personally after bring so wrong on him professionally?

[Bayliss]

Capologists, explain to me what Fisher is talking about with the 8.9 million TE with Nash. And why would Nash sign a 1 year deal when two other teams are offering him more per year + more years?