The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread - Page 8 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 01-22-2012, 05:49 PM

It really looks like its going to take a Marion trade which is unfortunate. Orlando will probably hold Howard through the season.

NEW JERSEY
As long as the Nets have an opportunity to sign Howard in the offseason, then they won't trade D-Will not matter how unhappy he is.The unfortunate bit is that D-Will has good reason to stay in NJ/NY if they sign Howard. D-Will can get more money if he stays with NJ, the team is going to the upgraded arena in Brooklyn, etc. Im not sure having Lopez, Morrow, Farmar, Petro and Shawne Williams is terribly appetizing to D-Will but they'd be at 35mill, but with Howard getting a max contract, they'd be sitting at 52.35m, which leaves less than 6mill to fill 7 roster spots.

DALLAS
If the Mavs can make a move it would be a total coup. Trading either Marion or Haywood may be difficult. There are only a handful of teams that are under the cap. There are fewer that are competitive. If we trade away Marion or Haywood and want to sign two max contracts, we can't take anything back. that is a tall order.

Even if the Mavs can pick up 100% cap space for Marion and amnesty Haywood, they'd only have 1-3 guys under contract and 24.5mill. Signing D-Will and Howard to twin-max contracts we'd be right at the cap with only Howard, Dirk, Williams and Roddy/Jones (unless we have to give them up to facilitate a Marion/Haywood trade). Having an all-star/finals MVP on the roster alone could make a case for Dallas, but with only 3-5 players on the roster and no cap space, it may be hard to fill the rest of the roster with anyone of note. We have a 4.1mill trade exception that is good until December of next year but otherwise have no assets that could net us a player above the min.

Of course its possible that we could re-sign Delonte, Wright, Mahinmi, Cardinal and Kidd for minimum deals-- it just might be very tight.

We do have a favorable tax rate, the childhood home of Williams, a finals MVP and an increasingly large and visible market with some prestige after the championship. No other team could offer all that.

Of course this all leaves the Lakers and Knicks out of the equation-- both teams have trade assets but with Orlando holding the first domino until the offseason, neither team can make a move with their financial obligations.

LA LAKERS
Lakers are right at the cap even if they let Bynum and Artest go. If it becomes a free-agency game they are out of direct signings and only in for SnT. They have a pair of trade pieces (Gasol, Bynum) but both would net 16-19mill.

NY KNICKS
Knicks are right at the cap with only Melo, Amare, Chandler and Balkman/Shumpert on contract. Unless they break up the big 3, they have no chance of even an SnT.

ORLANDO is either over the cap if Howard stays (which seems very unlikely) or only 14mill under the cap if Howard leaves-- which may be enough for a younger max contract but not anyone on the table now.

The issue I see is that keeping Howard really means that its an all-or-nothing game for Dallas, NJ and the rest of the teams with cap space. Only 5 names worth max money this year and there may only be two that may move (Howard/D-Will)

The max-money guys
D-Will (PO)
Howard (PO)
Bynum (TO) - With LA over the cap, it makes sense to option him another year and trade elsewhere
Paul (PO) - Working on an extension with the Clippers and may not even test the market
Love (R) - Minn has low-balled him for an extension but Minn can match any offer and probably will
Derrick Rose signed a huge extensionand is off the table

The rest - If those above stay put, this is all there is in free-agency
Hinrich
Allen
Garnett
Jamison
Kidd
Terry
Andre Miller
Kaman
Foye
Nash
Duncan
Okur

jthig32 · 01-22-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It really looks like its going to take a Marion trade which is unfortunate. Orlando will probably hold Howard through the season. As long as the Nets have an opportunity to sign Howard in the offseason, then they won't trade D-Will not matter how unhappy he is.

The unfortunate bit is that D-Will has good reason to stay in NJ/NY if they sign Howard. D-Will can get more money if he stays with NJ, the team is going to the upgraded arena in Brooklyn, etc. Im not sure having Lopez, Morrow, Farmar, Petro and Shawne Williams is terribly appetizing to D-Will but they'd be at 35mill, but with Howard getting a max contract, they'd be sitting at 52.35m, which leaves less than 6mill to fill 7 roster spots.

If the Mavs can make a move it would be a total coup. Even if the Mavs can pick up 100% cap space for Marion and amnesty Haywood, they'd only have 1-3 guys under contract and 24.5mill. Signing D-Will and Howard to twin-max contracts we'd be right at the cap with only Howard, Dirk, Williams and Roddy/Jones (unless we have to give them up to facilitate a Marion/Haywood trade). Having an all-star/finals MVP on the roster alone could make a case for Dallas, but with only 3-5 players on the roster and no cap space, it may be hard to fill the rest of the roster with anyone of note. We have a 4.1mill trade exception that is good until December of next year but otherwise have no assets that could net us a player above the min.

Of course its possible that we could re-sign Delonte, Wright, Mahinmi, Cardinal and Kidd for minimum deals-- it just might be very tight.

You have to renounce all Trade Exceptions to claim the cap space we would need to sign the contracts. Also don't forget about the 2.4Mil due Odom if we buy him out, and the ~400K per empty roster slot that counts against the cap.

In regards to how we'd acquire other players, don't forget the 2.4 Cap Exception. And Ian would be eligible for an Early-bird contract, so if you can afford to keep his cap hold in place while signing your players then maybe you can give him a little money.

Honestly, the bottom line is that if the dream scenario is going to play out, then the players just have to decide that they want to be here. They probably can't get a 100% max contract from us if we want to sign both. They just have to decide they want to be here and then everyone can sit down and work out the details. Kind of like what happened in Miami.

EricaLubarsky · 01-22-2012, 06:34 PM

buyout Odom? I thought it was a team option and not a non-guaranteed?

jthig32 · 01-22-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

buyout Odom? I thought it was a team option and not a non-guaranteed?

He has 2.4 guaranteed if they choose not to pickup the final year.

FINtastic · 01-23-2012, 01:28 AM

Brandan Wright has a team option for $947,907 for next year. Is that not the minimum, and if it is shouldn't that be a slam dunk move for the Mavericks in a Triple D scenario?

chumdawg · 01-23-2012, 02:04 AM

Who is Brandan Wright?

b_o_r · 01-23-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Who is Brandan Wright?

The if "Calvin Booth/Alexis Ajinca had baby" looking PF on the team. The one who caught that alley oop from Jet in the Pistons game.

sefant77 · 01-23-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

NEW JERSEY
As long as the Nets have an opportunity to sign Howard in the offseason, then they won't trade D-Will not matter how unhappy he is.The unfortunate bit is that D-Will has good reason to stay in NJ/NY if they sign Howard. D-Will can get more money if he stays with NJ, the team is going to the upgraded arena in Brooklyn, etc. Im not sure having Lopez, Morrow, Farmar, Petro and Shawne Williams is terribly appetizing to D-Will but they'd be at 35mill, but with Howard getting a max contract, they'd be sitting at 52.35m, which leaves less than 6mill to fill 7 roster spots.

They have:
Morrow 4M
Farmar 4.25M
Petro 3.5M
Shawne 3.2M
Brooks 1.2M
Lopez ~8.5M cap hold
high 1st rounder 2012 draft 3-5M
cap holds empty roster spots ~3M

Thats ~30M without Deron or Howard. Humphries has 12M cap hold and is still looking for a longterm payday, so he is gone. So even with him gone the Nets have to do some moves to be able to offer max contracts to both. Maybe they need to trade the pick to get Farmer/Petro off the payroll.

Lopez will demand 10+ for sure, so they need to trade him. So there is also the question how much trust and confidence Deron/Dwight have in the Nets FO to do the right trades (Lopez, maybe the 1st etc)

Quote:

DALLAS
If the Mavs can make a move it would be a total coup. Trading either Marion or Haywood may be difficult. There are only a handful of teams that are under the cap. There are fewer that are competitive. If we trade away Marion or Haywood and want to sign two max contracts, we can't take anything back. that is a tall order.

Even if the Mavs can pick up 100% cap space for Marion and amnesty Haywood, they'd only have 1-3 guys under contract and 24.5mill. Signing D-Will and Howard to twin-max contracts we'd be right at the cap with only Howard, Dirk, Williams and Roddy/Jones (unless we have to give them up to facilitate a Marion/Haywood trade). Having an all-star/finals MVP on the roster alone could make a case for Dallas, but with only 3-5 players on the roster and no cap space, it may be hard to fill the rest of the roster with anyone of note. We have a 4.1mill trade exception that is good until December of next year but otherwise have no assets that could net us a player above the min.

Of course its possible that we could re-sign Delonte, Wright, Mahinmi, Cardinal and Kidd for minimum deals-- it just might be very tight.

It would help if we could get some "verbal commitments" that would help Deron/Dwight to make it easier to come here. Like Kidd telling when DDD happens he is for sure back for the vet min. Or Terry telling in this case he would accept three years miniMLE. Or even asking Deron/Dwight to split Roddys 2.2M next season so the Mavs could keep him. Put a player option in the 3rd year of the contract and give them then the absolute max.

Deron/Kidd
Terry (maybe Roddy)
x
Dirk
Dwigt

Thats a solid base to start. The Mavs proved that they are great and finding good hungry vets or minimum player.

Mavs have a huge advantage over the Nets in case of FO/Owner/Coach. Carlisle owns Avery (specially in terms of superstar PG on the team), Billy King is solid but he isnt Cuban/Donnie....

mac222b · 01-23-2012, 01:51 PM

Can only come up with 3 scenarios that are even remotely likely as far as trading Haywood goes. To Charlotte: Haywood/Roddy for Diaw and a top 10 protected 1st rd.pick
To Atlanta for Hinrich's expiring contract. or to Philly for Spencer Hawes who can be traded March1st(Philly could make this deal and stay under the cap, i think)

These are the only 3 teams with motive and an expiring to give back that i can see.
Also possible Donnie has some other creative ways to dump salary that we aren't seeing yet

Sadly, i think if we wanna move Haywood he'll have to be packaged with Roddy.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Can only come up with 3 scenarios that are even remotely likely as far as trading Haywood goes. To Charlotte: Haywood/Roddy for Diaw and a top 10 protected 1st rd.pick
To Atlanta for Hinrich's expiring contract. or to Philly for Spencer Hawes who can be traded March1st(Philly could make this deal and stay under the cap, i think)

These are the only 3 teams with motive and an expiring to give back that i can see.
Also possible Donnie has some other creative ways to dump salary that we aren't seeing yet

Sadly, i think if we wanna move Haywood he'll have to be packaged with Roddy.

I think in reality, Marion has more value on the market than Wood. Toronto "owes" us a favor in the Hedo sign and trade when we took on Marion. We've dealt with Colangelo pretty well, I'm sure if they had the cap space Casey can use Marion, next year. Looking at Miami's blueprint, the hardest part was getting the verbal commit first, then it becomes paperwork after.

DTownKidd · 01-23-2012, 02:24 PM

According to Stephen A. Smith from ESPN Radio(Approximately 1:50 into the radio spot: )

"As I told you a little bit earlier in the hour, I have some news to report about your New York Knicks. The Orlando Magic, I will preface my statement by telling you that they have categorically denied this, but my sources tell me that they have inquired about Tyson Chandler and Amar'e Stoudemire going to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Let me confess to you that I'm torn. From a basketball standpoint, it would seem you do that trade in a heartbeat. You don't teach seven-feet and you don't teach the dominate and the skills that Dwight Howard has. But I like Tyson Chandler. I like the fact that he rebounds and defends."

sefant77 · 01-23-2012, 02:26 PM

The tricky question is:

Do the Mavs "prepare" allready for the case that the Magic dont trade Howard at the deadline? Trading Marion or Haywood for expiring, hurting the "win now" but getting the most important part and difficult part of DDD done (dumping one of them)?

I could see the Mavs having maybe some trade scenarios planned for the deadline and the moment they hear from Orlando that they wont trade Dwight they jump on the phones...

sefant77 · 01-23-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

According to Stephen A. Smith from ESPN Radio(Approximately 1:50 into the radio spot: )

"As I told you a little bit earlier in the hour, I have some news to report about your New York Knicks. The Orlando Magic, I will preface my statement by telling you that they have categorically denied this, but my sources tell me that they have inquired about Tyson Chandler and Amar'e Stoudemire going to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Let me confess to you that I'm torn. From a basketball standpoint, it would seem you do that trade in a heartbeat. You don't teach seven-feet and you don't teach the dominate and the skills that Dwight Howard has. But I like Tyson Chandler. I like the fact that he rebounds and defends."

They combine for ~35M the next four years, both are injury prones and the Knicks arent winning with them...

LonghornDub · 01-23-2012, 02:30 PM

I wonder if the Knicks might have designs on trading those 2 for Dwight and then trying to flip Anthony for Deron. That'd be a big kick to the Mavs' crotch.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

According to Stephen A. Smith from ESPN Radio(Approximately 1:50 into the radio spot: )

"As I told you a little bit earlier in the hour, I have some news to report about your New York Knicks. The Orlando Magic, I will preface my statement by telling you that they have categorically denied this, but my sources tell me that they have inquired about Tyson Chandler and Amar'e Stoudemire going to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Let me confess to you that I'm torn. From a basketball standpoint, it would seem you do that trade in a heartbeat. You don't teach seven-feet and you don't teach the dominate and the skills that Dwight Howard has. But I like Tyson Chandler. I like the fact that he rebounds and defends."

Geez.

Interesting variation to come out. Knicks get Williams in the summer. Orlando won't take a step back, Amare is the offensive focal point. Hedo, JRich and Nelson toeing the line.

DTownKidd · 01-23-2012, 02:32 PM

I think the trade would have to be Chandler/Amare for Dwight and Turk.

That's a pretty bad cap situation for Orlando. I really wouldn't want to be paying Amare $23 million in 2014-15, not to mention Chandler $14 mill. They would be giving Dwight to eastern competition, if NYK decides to amnesty Turk that gives them the possibility to make a run at Deron.

I think there is really no chance for this to happen. Chandler/Amare are the crippled version of Pau/ Bynum...

DTownKidd · 01-23-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

They combine for ~35M the next four years, both are injury prones and the Knicks arent winning with them...

Exactly why they would want to trade them...

Being the "optimist" for orlando here...Maybe they think they could keep one and flip the other for even more pieces. They are not really pieces you want to keep for the long run but moving one for possibly 2 or 3 other players could be one hell of a haul for Dwight, who could leave for nothing.

LonghornDub · 01-23-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Orlando won't take a step back

Ohhh....gonna have to disagree there. Strongly.

DTownKidd · 01-23-2012, 02:41 PM

Orlando gets: Chandler Amare
NYK gets: Dwight Turk

NYK amnesty Turk, makes run at D will, if it fails, they have Melo and Dwight.

Orlando gets: Ellis, filler
GSW gets: Chandler

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-23-2012, 02:43 PM

Bleak sounding rumor, but still more smoke than fire. Magic just need to keep winning.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

I think the trade would have to be Chandler/Amare for Dwight and Turk.

That's a pretty bad cap situation for Orlando. I really wouldn't want to be paying Amare $23 million in 2014-15, not to mention Chandler $14 mill. They would be giving Dwight to eastern competition, if NYK decides to amnesty Turk that gives them the possibility to make a run at Deron.

I think there is really no chance for this to happen. Chandler/Amare are the crippled version of Pau/ Bynum...

NYK cannot amnesty Turk. Only the team owning that players contract on the new CBA date can amnesty that player. Even though Washington signed Arenas, Orlando owned that contract when the new CBA kicked in.

Boy didn't think about that scenario of Hedo going to NYK. Williams wouldn't be an automatic going to NYK.

mac222b · 01-23-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

Orlando gets: Chandler Amare
NYK gets: Dwight Turk

NYK amnesty Turk, makes run at D will, if it fails, they have Melo and Dwight.

Orlando gets: Ellis, filler
GSW gets: Chandler

Cant amnesty a traded for player. NYK would be stuck with Turk

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Bleak sounding rumor, but still more smoke than fire. Magic just need to keep winning.

Yea, that's waht we have to hope for, Orlando winning through the deadline, fall short in the playoffs. Boston's out of the way, Rose is down, Wade is down, it could happen...false hope, so we're Magic fans too.

mac222b · 01-23-2012, 02:56 PM

I see Orlando making a run at the title with Dwight before doing this deal with the Knicks.
2 huge contracts with injury history.

BPo001 · 01-23-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

Orlando gets: Chandler Amare
NYK gets: Dwight Turk

NYK amnesty Turk, makes run at D will, if it fails, they have Melo and Dwight.

Orlando gets: Ellis, filler
GSW gets: Chandler

I thought you couldn't amnesty a player that was traded for?

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I thought you couldn't amnesty a player that was traded for?

Right.

NYK cannot amnesty Turk. Only the team owning that players contract on the new CBA date can amnesty that player. Even though Washington signed Arenas, Orlando owned that contract when the new CBA kicked in.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 03:02 PM

Plus NYK has already used the amnesty on Chauncey, it's a one shot deal.

LonghornDub · 01-23-2012, 03:26 PM

Question: does anybody know if the Knicks can amnesty Hedo?

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Question: does anybody know if the Knicks can amnesty Hedo?

No the Knicks cannot, they've already used it on Chauncey. Plus they did not own the contract at the time of the new CBA.

Underdog · 01-23-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Question: does anybody know if the Knicks can amnesty Hedo?

Good question - I know they can't amnesty Turk, but I have no idea if that also applies to Hedo...

jthig32 · 01-23-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

The tricky question is:

Do the Mavs "prepare" allready for the case that the Magic dont trade Howard at the deadline? Trading Marion or Haywood for expiring, hurting the "win now" but getting the most important part and difficult part of DDD done (dumping one of them)?

I could see the Mavs having maybe some trade scenarios planned for the deadline and the moment they hear from Orlando that they wont trade Dwight they jump on the phones...

If someone wants Haywood, maybe.

I don't see anyway they dump Marion before they know for sure that they will need his cap room. He's too useful.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If someone wants Haywood, maybe.

I don't see anyway they dump Marion before they know for sure that they will need his cap room. He's too useful.

yea, agree, if you find a taker for Wood, good bye. I think a combo of Yi, Williams and Wright will fill Wood's void.

Kidd Karma · 01-23-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If someone wants Haywood, maybe.

I don't see anyway they dump Marion before they know for sure that they will need his cap room. He's too useful.

Plus there's bound to be free agents waived around the deadline as well. Pryzbilla's still a free agent and Rasheed wants back in too.

CadBane · 01-23-2012, 04:57 PM

Lmao @ Stephen A. Smith.

Yeah...you don't want to give up Tyson who "defends and rebounds". Not like D12 does those things light years better...

mavs777 · 01-23-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

According to Stephen A. Smith from ESPN Radio(Approximately 1:50 into the radio spot: )

"As I told you a little bit earlier in the hour, I have some news to report about your New York Knicks. The Orlando Magic, I will preface my statement by telling you that they have categorically denied this, but my sources tell me that they have inquired about Tyson Chandler and Amar'e Stoudemire going to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Let me confess to you that I'm torn. From a basketball standpoint, it would seem you do that trade in a heartbeat. You don't teach seven-feet and you don't teach the dominate and the skills that Dwight Howard has. But I like Tyson Chandler. I like the fact that he rebounds and defends."

you guys seem to be ignoring a couple of things first of all look at what I bolded. Secondly and maybe most important is that Amare has a terrible contract and is already showing decline... look at how much he is being owed

2011-2012: 18.2 Mill
2012-2013: 20 Mill
2013-2014: 21.6 Mill
2014-2015: 23. 4 Mill

Lastly if they do for whatever dumb reason like this deal (Orlando) remember that New York cannot amnesty a player they trade for and surely Orlando would force them to take Turk on.

dude1394 · 01-23-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ohhh....gonna have to disagree there. Strongly.

Agreed amare is fools gold and you almost wonder about a locker room problem.

roadrunner · 01-23-2012, 09:14 PM

If you just glance or squint just right he is wearing a Dallas jersey!

oilfieldtrash · 01-23-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

If you just glance or squint just right he is wearing a Dallas jersey!

lol that's awesome.

oilfieldtrash · 01-23-2012, 11:56 PM

I don't even care about Deron and Howard at this point. Just get me the big man (Howard) and Nelson and Cuban could definitely fill out the roster with the remaining cap space. You might even be better off like that. Instead of D12, DWill, Dirk and a bunch of veteran minimum guys you could have D12, Dirk, and some very solid pieces to fill out the roster.

clutch#41 · 01-24-2012, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I don't even care about Deron and Howard at this point. Just get me the big man (Howard) and Nelson and Cuban could definitely fill out the roster with the remaining cap space. You might even be better off like that. Instead of D12, DWill, Dirk and a bunch of veteran minimum guys you could have D12, Dirk, and some very solid pieces to fill out the roster.

this!! but then again if we do get them and have that big 3, im pretty sure cuban wouldnt mind paying the additional luxury tax and getting a couple decent cheap pieces to go hard after a championship as long as dirk is here. but then again im no financial expert.