GDT| Dallas @ Utah | 2/1/2010 | 8pm CST

[Thomas86]

I'm just waiting for CUBAN to say "you don't win titles in February" bulls*** because that's the only thing he can say, If I was Dirk I would head out of town after this season and don't go down with the sinking ship.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

He's one guy out of five. He does good things and bad things.

If you're the kind of guy who would pin a loss on a single player--and call for his head at that--then you would be an absolutely horrible teammate and locker room guy.

What good things did he do in his brief, yet memorable -10 stint in the 4th quarter?

[particleman]

Originally Posted by CadBane

And I guess I'm going to be the bad guy for having the audacity to call out Erica on her inane comments. Whatever. How's the view up there?

Fact is, JJB and RC lost this game, and someone is going to harp on Dirk not fouling AK on a fastbreak dunk? Yeah, you're going to get called out.

He should have made an effort. He just should have... you really want to argue that the right move was for Dirk to step to the side and let AK dunk it? And if you want to make that argument, go ahead... but do you have to personally attack fellow dallas-mavs posters when you do so?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by particleman

Yeah... I would be surprised if anyone argued that point. Which is what makes CadBane's ranting so funny... He's taking about the most obvious things you could take away from this game and beating them into the ground... and personally attacking anyone who suggests that other factors may have contributed to the blowout in the fourth...

I'm pretty sure that when they watch the film they aren't going to say: "Damn, we were good, except for Barea."

Gimme a break. They earned that loss. All of them.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

What good things did he do in his brief, yet memorable -10 stint in the 4th quarter?

Stroke your anti-Barea hard-on until you gushed and came?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by particleman

He should have made an effort. He just should have... you really want to argue that the right move was for Dirk to step to the side and let AK dunk it? And if you want to make that argument, go ahead... but do you have to personally attack fellow dallas-mavs posters when you do so?

I'm pretty sure he didn't even see AK driving because he had his head turned. And if he did let AK dunk, I don't blame him one bit. And for what it's worth, given the momentum an athletic 6"9 wing like AK had, if he had tried to foul him, it would have been an "and one".

Though all this is moot because the game was already over due to JJB and RC. This is like blaming Najera for missing a jumper with 20 seconds left. Do you follow?

[BGMaverick9]

[particleman]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm pretty sure that when they watch the film they aren't going to say: "Damn, we were good, except for Barea."

Gimme a break. They earned that loss. All of them.

Yeah... What's your point?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Stroke your anti-Barea hard-on until you gushed and came?

Your insightful analysis, backed by stats and a general understanding of basketball, coupled with a clear analysis of the game never cease to amaze me,

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Your insightful analysis, backed by stats and a general understanding of basketball, coupled with a clear analysis of the game never cease to amaze me,

I wasn't analyzing the game, goofball. I was analyzing you.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I wasn't analyzing the game, goofball. I was analyzing you.

The only thing you "analyze" is the life size poster of JJB hanging over your bed in the psyche ward.

[particleman]

Originally Posted by CadBane

I'm pretty sure he didn't even see AK driving because he had his head turned. And if he did let AK dunk, I don't blame him one bit. And for what it's worth, given the momentum an athletic 6"9 wing like AK had, if he had tried to foul him, it would have been an "and one".

Though all this is moot because the game was already over due to JJB and RC. This is like blaming Najera for missing a jumper with 20 seconds left. Do you follow?

The game wasn't over. That basket stretched the lead from 10 to 12 with four and a half minutes remaining. Granted it's a longshot, but you shouldn't give up when you're down 10 with 4 and a half minutes to go.

That's just my opinion though. I feel like we're probably not going to come to any sort of agreement about this, and I don't really feel like it's worth arguing. I just don't understand why you have to insult everyone you disagree with.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by CadBane

And I guess I'm going to be the bad guy for having the audacity to call out Erica on her inane comments. Whatever. How's the view up there?

Fact is, JJB and RC lost this game, and someone is going to harp on Dirk not fouling AK on a fastbreak dunk? Yeah, you're going to get called out.

Particleman, again, that is why.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

The only thing you "analyze" is the life size poster of JJB hanging over your bed in the psyche ward.

Ha! What a great visual.

You've got quite an obsession, CadBane. Quite an obsession.

[particleman]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Particleman, again, that is why.

Hmm.. So you don't think it's possible to "call someone out" without insulting them on a personal level? You couldn't have just kept the conversation on the topic of basketball? You think insinuating a person is stupid because she is a woman somehow adds to this discussion?

[particleman]

Eh... anyway... I just think this place would be a lot better if you'd chill out a little bit... I think some of the stuff you say on here is actually pretty good. It's just you get on these rants and go apeshit on everyone who disagrees with you or has a different take.

I mean we all get worked up when the Mavs lose and we all argue over this dumb shit, but most of us don't make it so damn personal.

[SMC0007]

Dirk was at fault as much as JJB or anyone else in that last 7-8 minute stretch. He couldn't block out on the boards and player terrible defense, no help D at all. He allowed AK to steal the inlet pass twice and nearly a third time if not for a questionable foul call. Im fine with the point production from him but you can't just play one end of the floor.

Sure JJB passed the ball to AK on a key possession but good god what the hell kind of pick was Dirk trying to set? It was the worst pnr or whatever cluster F you wanna call it. Then he failed again to shield his defender and helped create a bad pass. I don't expect as much from JJB or Josh as I do Dirk but I think tonight they all deserve a little critisism. They should be bashed in the fashion I was bashed for 2 1/2 hours of watching that game.

Dirk looks tired lately. He really needs a spark, an outside spark, some help.

[Popeye]

Dirk wasn't blocking the shot. If Dirk fouled him hard it would have probably been a flagrant considering it's in Utah and Kirilenko was flying. If he just tried to swipe or block the shot, it probably would have been an "and 1".

Why are we talking about such an insignificant play?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Popeye

Dirk wasn't blocking the shot. If Dirk fouled him hard it would have probably been a flagrant considering it's in Utah and Kirilenko was flying. If he just tried to swipe or block the shot, it probably would have been an "and 1".

Why are we talking about such an insignificant play?

Because 3/4ths of the people on this board don't know anything about the sport they are "watching".

[badfish22]

Dirk had no shots in the 4th.

Dirk in postgame "If I have to run to them to get the ball then maybe that's what I have to"

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by particleman

It's just you get on these rants and go apeshit on everyone who disagrees with you or has a different take.

Welcome to the interwebs.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Dirk had no shots in the 4th.

Dirk in postgame "If I have to run to them to get the ball then maybe that's what I have to"

Did he really say that?

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Did he really say that?

Yessir

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

He's one guy out of five. He does good things and bad things.

If you're the kind of guy who would pin a loss on a single player--and call for his head at that--then you would be an absolutely horrible teammate and locker room guy.

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Yessir

That speaks volumes. I don't know what the tone of his voice was, but it's rare you see Dirk call out his teammates. Frustration might be starting to set in for the Dirkster.

[Rhylan]

A lot of you need to realize, this isn't football. The coach doesn't call a play that goes to a specific offensive executor each time down the court. You only call stuff some of the time, and when you do, it's an offensive set with several options. In order for all the options to present themselves, the players have to execute proper player and ball movement better than the defense executes their scheme and anticipation.

This is not like when Nellie was here and he'd call to exploit specific mismatches on the court that meant taking the ball out of Dirk's hands.

These days, Dirk not getting the ball for stretches is an execution problem that is a result of the following:

1. Lack of energy on the part of teammates and of Dirk. The two feed off of each other. When nobody's doing well, Dirk gets down, or vice versa. This is what I think happens a lot when you see Dirk being weak with the ball when he gets it, letting it get poked away. Or when he doesn't hustle to beat his defender to a good spot on the floor. It comes out of being sick of working so hard to get into position or of not having anyone besides JKidd who can get him the ball in a good spot. And it's becoming even harder for JKidd to get him the ball in a good spot because of our lack of other options on the floor. Worse now than at any other time in Dirk's time as a Mav, there is a lack of consistent scoring ability on the floor at every position but his.

2. Personnel problems. These cause the frustration that leads to #1. Personnel problems include NOBODY capable of creating their own shot on the team other than Dirk. No consistent second scoring option. Barea being absolutely exposed by teams who have scouted him and realize he is not going to make the right pass, ever, yet still getting the ball each time down the court, because when he's in the game, that's what he's called on to do. Force the issue and make offense. The guy is 5'9" for crying out loud - he's a SPECIALIST in the most extreme case. A coach with the skills of a Rick Carlisle is playing him this much out of pure desperation and lack of other options. Only the greatness of Dirk and smart play of Kidd and sometimes Marion (defensively) have the Mavs where they are right now record-wise. That and Dampier's great start to the season.

Barea and Howard are offensive kryptonite for this team. They are effective only when they dominate the ball. For Howard, this is bad because when he's off, he tries to shoot his way out of it, and when he's on, he heat checks his way out of being hot. See second quarter against Portland on Saturday.

Barea can be a useful weapon in this vein if he's used for 10-15 minutes and does NOT initiate the offense. But because of his non-existent ball distribution skills, when Barea initiates the offense, we become a one option offense. So let him floor the ball, then crowd him on D. You'll either get a forced shot or a forced kick out. Most teams have figured that out in the last couple of months - that's why his effectiveness has gone to crap.

Bottom line, the Dirk-suddenly-not-getting-shots issue is a personnel issue exacerbated by a coaching playing ineffective players too much, and a coach playing ineffective players too much because of personnel shortcomings... in other words, time for a shake-up.

I also think you can't underestimate the effect Dampier's knee issue has had on the team D. Team D was sliding once he started having problems and lost some mobility, and has slid off the deep end along with the team's psyche the last couple of weeks. Snowball effect.

And another note in this rambling post... Shawn Marion's defense has been outstanding, without question, but his offensive game has become Antawn Jamison without the touch around the basket, without the solid fundamental shooting form, and without the range. In other words, you can only feel good about him shooting a layup. He is completely gravity bound on the offensive side of the ball, all of a sudden.

To those of you who wonder why Roddy isn't playing more.. the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is the knucklehead factor. The Mavs have an overabundance of players who are, when at their very best, a mere hair's breadth away from becoming a full blown knucklehead.

Howard, Gooden, Barea, and Terry are all in this category. 4 very below average basketball decision makers. The conditions under which you'd be willing to roll out a mercurial rookie who probably has a knucklehead streak of his own are very limited when your team is so dependent on that Knucklehead Quartet.

[CadBane]

Rhylan, part of that is true. But a lot of it falls on RC.

If you see that your star is flat out not TOUCHING the ball. You run an ISO or design a play to ensure he TOUCHES the ball. It isn't hard to run a set play that guarantees Dirk touches the ball or gets a shot.

He didn't even get a TOUCH until 6 minutes left. Part of that was JJB's absurd talentlessness (which falls on RC), but a lot is on the coach.

There IS NO excuse for RC allowing Dirk to go up to the 6 minute mark without a single touch.

And for the idiots bitching that Dirk should say something, I think his quote is pretty telling.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

1. Lack of energy on the part of teammates and of Dirk. The two feed off of each other. When nobody's doing well, Dirk gets down, or vice versa. This is what I think happens a lot when you see Dirk being weak with the ball when he gets it, letting it get poked away. Or when he doesn't hustle to beat his defender to a good spot on the floor. It comes out of being sick of working so hard to get into position or of not having anyone besides JKidd who can get him the ball in a good spot. And it's becoming even harder for JKidd to get him the ball in a good spot because of our lack of other options on the floor. Worse now than at any other time in Dirk's time as a Mav, there is a lack of consistent scoring ability on the floor at every position but his.

2. Personnel problems. These cause the frustration that leads to #1. Personnel problems include NOBODY capable of creating their own shot on the team other than Dirk. No consistent second scoring option. Barea being absolutely exposed by teams who have scouted him and realize he is not going to make the right pass, ever, yet still getting the ball each time down the court.

Barea and Howard are offensive kryptonite for this team. They are effective only when they dominate the ball. For Howard, this is bad because when he's off, he tries to shoot his way out of it, and when he's on, he heat checks his way out of it. See second quarter against Portland on Saturday.

Barea can be a useful weapon in this vein if he's used for 10-15 minutes and does NOT initiate the offense. But because of his non-existent ball distribution skills, when Barea initiates the offense, we become a one option offense. So let him floor the ball, then crowd him on D. You'll either get a forced shot or a forced kick out. Most teams have figured that out in the last couple of months - that's why his effectiveness has gone to crap.

Bottom line, the Dirk-suddenly-not-getting-shots issue is a personnel issue exacerbated by a coaching issue, and a coaching issue exacerbated by personnel shortcomings... in other words, time for a shake-up.

I also think you can't underestimate the effect Dampier's knee issue has had on the team D. Team D was sliding once he started having problems and lost some mobility, and has slid off the deep end along with the team's psyche the last couple of weeks.

And another note in this rambling post... Shawn Marion's defense has been outstanding, without question, but his offensive game has become Antawn Jamison without the touch around the basket, without the solid fundamental shooting form, and without the range. In other words, you can only feel good about him shooting a layup. He is completely gravity bound on the offensive side of the ball, all of a sudden.

This was an excellent post! Well Done.

Just to branch off some of what you said:
I know the league as a whole is just jump shooting, but this team as a whole is pretty much just made up of that. When they run the break, the finisher usually stops 10-15 feet away from the basket to take a jumper...it's annoying beyond belief. They need to attack and be finishers. I can understand Dirk and Jet doing that, but Josh stopping just doesn't cut it for me.

Pretty good breakdown of Marion too, it's a very remedial style to Jamison and it's not as effective.

This team just doesn't have enough people that make you pay or garner your respect on offense. People can knock on Kidd with his output but I think he does more than enough with defense and his play-making ability. He is still an efficient shooter when he gets time.

I could keep going, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[fluid.forty.one]

CadBane you embody everything that's wrong with internet message boards.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

CadBane you embody everything that's wrong with internet message boards.

You embody everything that's wrong with NBA fans.

[CadBane]

Apparently cogent points and factual statements are lost on those that know absolutely nothing about the game. I guess I can't keep up with such sage insight such as "We need to play better defense." Or "Why aLL WE do is Shot jumpers?" We got some real bright ones around here.

[fluid.forty.one]

My post had nothing to do with disagreeing with you. I said the same thing you're saying about Dirk and his touches. That's not what's wrong with your points. It's just that you're a huge asshole and obviously not always right so you come across as an arrogant child.

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Apparently cogent points and factual statements are lost on those that know absolutely nothing about the game. I guess I can't keep up with such sage insight such as "We need to play better defense." Or "Why aLL WE do is Shot jumpers?" We got some real bright ones around here.

Man, what's up with you dude? You're coming off as an arrogant asshole tonight.

Maybe you need some sleep or something. Take a chill pill bro.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

This was an excellent post! Well Done.

Just to branch off some of what you said:
I know the league as a whole is just jump shooting, but this team as a whole is pretty much just made up of that. When they run the break, the finisher usually stops 10-15 feet away from the basket to take a jumper...it's annoying beyond belief. They need to attack and be finishers. I can understand Dirk and Jet doing that, but Josh stopping just doesn't cut it for me.

Pretty good breakdown of Marion too, it's a very remedial style to Jamison and it's not as effective.

This team just doesn't have enough people that make you pay or garner your respect on offense. People can knock on Kidd with his output but I think he does more than enough with defense and his play-making ability. He is still an efficient shooter when he gets time.

I could keep going, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

This is the thing about having Kidd run this team. Like Rhylan said, this team has no one that can kill you but Dirk. I'm just of the belief that you need that point guard that can kill you with the pass or the shot. Kidd is at the point now where teams just leave him open. They don't even bother with him. And don't even let a team run him off the 3. I have no idea what happen to his inside game but there was a point in his career where he was capable of hitting layups. My complain with this team for 3 years now is that its too one dimensional. Guys do 1 thing good and that's it. And some don't even do one thing good anymore(Josh). There's just too many one dimensional players on this team and its going to be the fall of this team this season if a move isn't made. I just can't see a team getting a ring playing the way this Mavs team does.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

This is the thing about having Kidd run this team. Like Rhylan said, this team has no one that can kill you but Dirk. I'm just of the belief that you need that point guard that can kill you with the pass or the shot. Kidd is at the point now where teams just leave him open. They don't even bother with him. And don't even let a team run him off the 3. I have no idea what happen to his inside game but there was a point in his career where he was capable of hitting layups. My complain with this team for 3 years now is that its too one dimensional. Guys do 1 thing good and that's it. And some don't even do one thing good anymore(Josh). There's just too many one dimensional players on this team and its going to be the fall of this team this season if a move isn't made. I just can't see a team getting a ring playing the way this Mavs team does.

Someone mentioned it and it went along with the point:
He's a good fast break PG, we don't have finishers to compliment him. He still has a post-up game, but I don't know how frequently it's been used since I just started back into the flow of things with the Mavs.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Dirk's teammates are playing like they're worried about being traded.

[fluid.forty.one]

Cadbane - I assume that you meant to leave me negative rep since the comment "Stop breathing" doesn't fit with the green box it came with. Spread some rep around and try again.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

This is the thing about having Kidd run this team. Like Rhylan said, this team has no one that can kill you but Dirk. I'm just of the belief that you need that point guard that can kill you with the pass or the shot. Kidd is at the point now where teams just leave him open. They don't even bother with him. And don't even let a team run him off the 3. I have no idea what happen to his inside game but there was a point in his career where he was capable of hitting layups. My complain with this team for 3 years now is that its too one dimensional. Guys do 1 thing good and that's it. And some don't even do one thing good anymore(Josh). There's just too many one dimensional players on this team and its going to be the fall of this team this season if a move isn't made. I just can't see a team getting a ring playing the way this Mavs team does.

You can get away with not having a jumper of you can at least get to the cup and finish (Rondo). Unfortunately Kidd can't really do either. Of course his inability to shoot/score would be alleviated if we didn't have two other guys incapable of scoring at all times (Damp, Howard, Marion). The offense IS Dirk and Terry. And Terry's streaky.

Still doesn't excuse or explain why they didn't even TRY to get the ball to Dirk in the 4th. Him getting doubled and Kidd missing shots wasn't the problem (though sometimes it is). The problem was simply not even making any attempt to go to Dirk.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Cadbane - I assume that you meant to leave me negative rep since the comment "Stop breathing" doesn't fit with the green box it came with. Spread some rep around and try again.

I was feeling generous.

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Dirk's teammates are playing like they're worried about being traded.

All of his teammates are extremely limited offensive players. As much as I love Kidd, he doesn't have the foot speed to get to the cup, and on the few occasions he does get there, he's not a good finisher. Jet is an undersized SG who is extremely streaky and is another guy that is a bad finisher at the rim. Howard no longer has any redeeming offensive qualities. Damp can't finish anything that isn't a dunk. Marion has lost all touch on his shot, and from what I've seen has horrible hands.

Again, Dirk is playing with an insanely limited squad. We have players that were at one point superstars or impact players but because of injuries or age, those qualities that they once had are either gone or have diminished quite a bit. That's why I don't think the Mavericks are THAT talented. We have the names, but the performances that those names used to produce on a game-to-game basis are now just a mere memory. We'll see glimpses, but those days are over.