Nerlens Noel - Page 8 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 07-11-2017, 10:04 PM

All positive signs, but this was tweeted right after the game...

@tim_cato: Nerlens Noel and the Mavericks are "not close" to a deal, several league sources tell me.

saclare · 07-12-2017, 09:30 AM

I bet they're not close because they're at the same point. They're letting him shop himself for the best offer sheet, and will match it.

Hypothetically, can someone offer him, say 4 years and $80MM, could Mavs go ahead and tack on another year for 5 years and $100MM. Would Mavs want to?

sefant77 · 07-12-2017, 09:35 AM

Its not "close" until the last team blew their cap space or didnt show any interest in him...but this point is going to arrive any day now

BPo001 · 07-12-2017, 10:25 AM

What teams besides the Nets have the cap space to sign him to a max deal at this point?

saclare · 07-12-2017, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

What teams besides the Nets have the cap space to sign him to a max deal at this point?

That's it.

mac222b · 07-12-2017, 01:28 PM

He'll be back here for approximately 80m over 4 yrs.
Maybe a million or two more or less. Maybe 5yrs instead of 4?

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2017, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

He'll be back here for approximately 80m over 4 yrs.
Maybe a million or two more or less. Maybe 5yrs instead of 4?

Honestly, unless he gets an offer from another team, he's coming back on QO for one year and then UFA with full Bird next season

sefant77 · 07-12-2017, 02:04 PM

Na, not with his knee history...waaay to risky

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-12-2017, 02:13 PM

I really don't think he'll accept the QO. 4/80 is right on the money.

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2017, 02:17 PM

A team has yet to make him an offer.

1) He gets an offer from another team and gets matched,
2) he accepts our offer (obviously fairly low if we don't have other teams driving up the offer),
3) he accepts QO and hits free agency next year.

Those are the only three options with him.

spreedom · 07-12-2017, 02:36 PM

I would hate to see him taking the QO. That would make it more likely than not, in my opinion, that he would walk next summer, even with our ability to offer him more money. Just get the freaking deal done.

SMC0007 · 07-12-2017, 02:58 PM

We have all been ruined by Dirk.

mac222b · 07-12-2017, 03:27 PM

He has the right to make as much money as he can. He should. I dont know at what dollar amount the MBT values him but I'm certain a deal will get done either way. Either they'll match an offer or he'll get 15-20m likely over 4yrs.

I was fairly critical of the Wes contract(cant believe we gave him considerably more $ AND the player and not team option for final year! off an achilles!) and even JJB's- which is still not a BAD contract per se but not as good as it was this same time last year. I don't think MBT are the best negotiators-they were seemingly bidding against themselves for Rondo- or maybe its just telegraphed when Cuban wants his shiny new toy. This seems to be changing for the better. I think Cuban actually learned his lesson from the Dwight/Greek Freak fiasco.

In this case I hope they don't low ball Noel. I dont think they will. If there is no market then we might get him at a a couple million less. 17 or18 instead of 20+ or something. That in itself would be huge for next offseason.

purplefrog · 07-12-2017, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Honestly, unless he gets an offer from another team, he's coming back on QO for one year and then UFA with full Bird next season

Yep. I've been a bit concerned about this from the beginning. Mavs still in the drivers seat, but potentially stiffer competition next year.

Thebo · 07-12-2017, 10:06 PM

When it comes to Noel, I think that the question should be how come none of the other teams have made an offer? I figured that perhaps Noel had already a verbal agreement with Mavs until the Mavs were chasing other free agents to lock before his signing, but this can hardly be the case now.

The league may well be looking differently at athletes' previous injuries, this would also explain DSJ falling to 9th pick.

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2017, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

When it comes to Noel, I think that the question should be how come none of the other teams have made an offer? I figured that perhaps Noel had already a verbal agreement with Mavs until the Mavs were chasing other free agents to lock before his signing, but this can hardly be the case now.

The league may well be looking differently at athletes' previous injuries, this would also explain DSJ falling to 9th pick.

A combination of his injury history, the disadvantage that RFAs have with even the shorter waiting period, knowledge that the Mavs will match, and the lower cap.

Thebo · 07-12-2017, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

knowledge that the Mavs will match

Why not to make Mavs pay him max then? Only if they are afraid of Mavs not matching the max offer and they end up stuck with possible Chandler Parsons the Second.

mac222b · 07-12-2017, 10:30 PM

Bottom line: we don't want an unhappy or disgruntled player here. It would serve no purpose to lowball Noel unless they don't like what they see as far as attitude work ethic injuries now that they've seen him up close. Otherwise it's a hollow victory to save a a few million just cuz you can. We had no issues throwing money around like candy when it was an injured Wes who had not even been a Mav yet. It's hard to gauge the market for him as RFA but we all agree he'd have gotten between 15-25 but likely in between and closer to 20. Maybe if we're lucky we get a team option on his final year for giving him an even 20m per?

Bryan_Wilson · 07-13-2017, 12:14 AM

I haven't even heard of a team talking with Noel yet. So I don't think that the Mavs are doing anything wrong by waiting for Noel's agent to get the best offer possible. I don't want to just throw money at Noel to make him happy. He can be upset with the league for not valuing him or his agent for misreading the market but idk why he'd be upset with the Mavs when he literally has zero offers being reported on the table as of now. Maybe he had an offer he didn't like that was never reported but so far it looks like the market for Noel was greatly misinterpreted.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2017, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I haven't even heard of a team talking with Noel yet. So I don't think that the Mavs are doing anything wrong by waiting for Noel's agent to get the best offer possible. I don't want to just throw money at Noel to make him happy. He can be upset with the league for not valuing him or his agent for misreading the market but idk why he'd be upset with the Mavs when he literally has zero offers being reported on the table as of now. Maybe he had an offer he didn't like that was never reported but so far it looks like the market for Noel was greatly misinterpreted.

Perhaps. Most teams would love to have him and pay what the market seems to be or was interpreted to be, but they just aren't in position to and it's incredibly wishful thinking for teams to assume we wouldn't match it. This requires patience.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2017, 09:43 PM

Noel should be chomping at the bit to play with Smith. So many easy buckets to be had.

MavzMan · 07-14-2017, 11:20 AM

I'm so ready for Smith to start playing with guys that can hit shots consistently. He passes to the wide open guy only too see many missed shots. There were even passes that should have been an easy dunk but the guy would come down, reset, and try to go back up for a layup only to give the defense time to recover.

Melonhead · 07-14-2017, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm so ready for Smith to start playing with guys that can hit shots consistently. He passes to the wide open guy only too see many missed shots. There were even passes that should have been an easy dunk but the guy would come down, reset, and try to go back up for a layup only to give the defense time to recover.

Outside of Dirk/Barnes/Curry...we don't have many shooters.

EricaLubarsky · 07-15-2017, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Outside of Dirk/Barnes/Curry...we don't have many shooters.

Matthews, Noel with the oops.

Potentially three guys plus Smith that can hit the three and one guy who can catch the oop

tap2390 · 07-15-2017, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Matthews, Noel with the oops.

Potentially three guys plus Smith that can hit the three and one guy who can catch the oop

I also think Powell will benefit greatly from wife open 17 footers and lobs.

Every now and then we'll see a Barea/ Smith backcourt and Barea will be wide open for that top of the key 3 he loves.

I don't think it's fair to say we don't have shooters. In fact I can't think of many teams with more shooters than us.

SMC0007 · 07-15-2017, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I also think Powell will benefit greatly from wife open 17 footers and lobs.

Every now and then we'll see a Barea/ Smith backcourt and Barea will be wide open for that top of the key 3 he loves.

I don't think it's fair to say we don't have shooters. In fact I can't think of many teams with more shooters than us.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ing-percentage

Also, Powell had plenty of open looks last season. If he starts hitting open midrange and beyond, it's because he's grown and worked on his shot.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-15-2017, 01:13 PM

Dwill assisted on 56 FGM's for Wes in 40 games. Yogi assisted on only 17 FGM's despite playing 36 games(i think) with him. So I rip Wes for his poor shooting numbers after the ASB but it's possible that he missed Dwill more than anyone. So I'm optimistic that this year will be different for Wes, or at least closer to his 1st half 38% 3pt season he had until the break.

Edit-
Forgot source.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202083/shooting/

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-15-2017, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Dwill assisted on 56 FGM's for Wes in 40 games. Yogi assisted on only 17 FGM's despite playing 36 games(i think) with him. So I rip Wes for his poor shooting numbers after the ASB but it's possible that he missed Dwill more than anyone. So I'm optimistic that this year will be different for Wes, or at least closer to his 1st half 38% 3pt season he had until the break.

Edit-
Forgot source.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202083/shooting/

Wes got that hip injury and was run down as the season came to a close, so it's hard to tell whether that was really Yogi's fault. It's all up to Wes and coach whether he reverts back to a catch and shoot three and D guy with less minutes or continues to dribble like he is good at it.

KillerLeft · 07-17-2017, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Dwill assisted on 56 FGM's for Wes in 40 games. Yogi assisted on only 17 FGM's despite playing 36 games(i think) with him. So I rip Wes for his poor shooting numbers after the ASB but it's possible that he missed Dwill more than anyone. So I'm optimistic that this year will be different for Wes, or at least closer to his 1st half 38% 3pt season he had until the break.

Edit-
Forgot source.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202083/shooting/

This is very interesting, thanks. The eye test didn't make this connection (at least for me) but it helps make sense of some things.

EricaLubarsky · 07-17-2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Wes got that hip injury and was run down as the season came to a close, so it's hard to tell whether that was really Yogi's fault. It's all up to Wes and coach whether he reverts back to a catch and shoot three and D guy with less minutes or continues to dribble like he is good at it.

Objectively, Wes was taking fewer shots from assists (having two or more dribbles after getting the ball) starting in February when D-Will went down. Doesn't matter what or who caused it. He went from creating 3% of his own shots to creating over 20% of his own possessions.

In December and January when Wes was getting his shot in rhythm (stationary jumpers), Wes shot 41.1% from three.

Absolutely makes sense that Rick would ask Wes to create his own offense when we weren't producing offensively, but it both wore him down (reducing his defensive poise) and brought down his shooting numbers. There's no reason to believe that playing next to Smith that we'll need him to ISO on 24% of possessions as we did many games late in the season. I think that will mean that Matthews gets back to the 3/D guy we saw from him early last season.

EricaLubarsky · 07-18-2017, 01:36 PM

Latest article makes it sound like Noel's agent is really upset

Mavs with a low offer but no other team willing to go higher. Not sure the agent has any more leverage than passing his complaints to the media. Article sounds bad, but put in perspective it certainly looks like the Mavs are winning the negotiation. If Noel was going to get a fat offer, he probably would have gotten it by now and the agent wouldn't be going public with his complaints

spreedom · 07-18-2017, 01:51 PM

Yeah it's almost unprecedented for a guy to take the QO coming off his rookie deal. I think fewer than 20 players have ever done it, so I'm not super worried about it yet. Free agency only really started a little over two weeks ago, after all. If we're in the same position a month from now, I'm going to get a little frustrated, but ultimately I think we'll get the deal done.

I'll also say my hope for this team to be a contender 3-4 years down the line really hinges on us keeping Nerlens around.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-18-2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:

“A source from another NBA team (not the Mavs) tells me that there will be “multiple” clubs willing to pay Noel his max once he hits the restricted-free-agent market on July 1.”

So close Fish.... So close...

Underdog · 07-18-2017, 03:16 PM

I really wonder what the Mavs offered... Are we talking about a fair non-max deal around $20m per, or did we completely lowball at $14m a year or something like that?

sefant77 · 07-18-2017, 04:11 PM

I think 18m with The Agent thinking its a lowball offer after Porter getting max this offseason (and the crazy contract Last season). Probably He also told The Mavs that Noel is The new Barnes...

j0Shi · 07-18-2017, 04:48 PM

This off-season is really weird because quite a lot players aren't getting the money they though they were. The caplosion didn't happen, market is dry, but there are still enough crazy contracts thrown around to create desires.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-18-2017, 04:56 PM

A sixers article-
http://thesixersense.com/2017/07/18/...ns-noel-trade/

Quote:

Before speculating what the numbers could be for a Noel contract extension, it’s worth discussing Noel’s happenings this offseason. The former 6th overall pick has yet to agree to a contract with the squad that traded for him. Rumors following the commencement of regular season play was that Noel was likely to field multiple max offers, according to Mike Fisher of Scout.com. A month and a half later, salary cap space has dried up around the league and I can’t imagine Noel has any leverage whatsoever, so a max offer doesn’t seem to be coming his way. Instead, a better gauge for a Noel contract would be the one Kelly Olynyk signed in Miami: four years, $50 million. Noel’s potential is higher than Olynyk, so for argument’s sake let’s bump his number up to $60 million over 4 years.

Do we consider 15m average over 4 years low ball? And I guess more importantly does NN and his agent? His old team thinks that would be fair value considering the contract of Kelly Olynyk.

Here's another one on the Alex Len angle.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...alex-len-front

I think the biggest problem with NN's camp thinking whatever offer we are offering isn't "a serious offer" is basing it on bad contracts signed last year. I also thought he would get something in the neighborhood of Adams but teams seem to realize they made a lot of bad choices last year. If NN had been a free agent last off season he might have gotten a ridiculous contract in that market, but this one seems to be very shy about Centers who are limited. The best teams in the NBA last year didn't really have a huge impact from their "Center". You can count Draymond cuz he plays a lot of 5 but he's unique and the whole Warriors team is constructed perfectly. Otherwise It would be Zaza, McGee, Thompson, Dedmon, KO, Gortat, Adams, Kanter, Capela etc... how many of those guys were absolutely vital to the success each team received and how many are worth making them the highest or 2nd highest paid player on their team? I honestly don't see a reason NN should be upset, there are reasons nobody is offering him that max or close to it it would appear.

j0Shi · 07-18-2017, 05:11 PM

I never liked a max for Noel in terms of "value" for the reasons you mentioned, but if that would have been the price tag I'd still signed him. 60/4 would be a bargain though and if the Mavs like him (which I think they do) they could throw in some goodwill and make it 17-18M annually imho.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-18-2017, 05:16 PM

The big hurdle with Noel is that fact that he may be on minutes restrictions indefinitely because of his knees. I'd be pretty disappointed if he wasn't able to play above 25 mpg. And that alone isn't worth giving him a max contract.

It's also worth nothing that Alex Len and Mason Plumlee, both RFAs, haven't been signed either.

Underdog · 07-18-2017, 06:58 PM

I think Skin is reading this situation correctly...

@SkinWade: The rumors at the end of the regular season were in the 17/18 per yr neighborhood so I'm assuming that but I haven't seen that confirmed

@SkinWade: This whole issue is an agent misread the market and gassed a player's head up. Circumstantially, there was NO reason to believe max coming