GDT: Mavs vs Nuggets, 12/26/2011, 9:30pm CST - Page 9 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 12-27-2011, 12:19 AM

This is going to take time - plain and simple

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

This is going to take time - plain and simple

Easy for you to say pal!

dude1394 · 12-27-2011, 12:23 AM

I understand that offensively it is going to take time. But defense (just any defense) requires effort and desire and not much else to be competitive. Right now the Mavs are a whole bunch of don't give a crap, there just isn't any other way to put it.

I do think the dismantling of the team has quite a bit to do with that. I expect they will get to give a crap but they are not there yet.

twelli · 12-27-2011, 12:30 AM

Welcome to the club, Lakers.

See, can happen to anyone. Blame it on the lockout.

twelli · 12-27-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Mavs gonna get the number 1 pick and get Dwight Howard! Boo yall baby!

I think, that's the plan. Dwight Howard would be perfect for Dallas. Much better than Deron Williams.

clutch#41 · 12-27-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

Welcome to the club, Lakers.

See, can happen to anyone. Blame it on the lockout.

i dont blame it on the lockout. all the young teams that were crappy in the past are starting to get competive. kings, clips, twolves, pacers

chumdawg · 12-27-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It most certainly is, which is why I never suggested any such thing. If you think that's what I was saying, perhaps you should more carefully re-read the context in which I made the "professionals" comment.

If I am not really smart at seeing through the curtains, then perhaps the error was yours. I took it as your saying something like "Hey, these are NBA players, they should be able to play defense no matter what." They being professionals, and all.

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I understand that offensively it is going to take time. But defense (just any defense) requires effort and desire and not much else to be competitive. Right now the Mavs are a whole bunch of don't give a crap, there just isn't any other way to put it.

I do think the dismantling of the team has quite a bit to do with that. I expect they will get to give a crap but they are not there yet.

I think both are going to take time, but good point nonetheless. No one is gonna miss wide open shots on purpose or not run around screens because you are the champs. You actually have work...hard. Easy for me to say in my recliner. I think they still have to decide whether they want to get gritty, roll up their sleeves and dig in. Right now I don't see the fire and I think some of it has a bit to do with the lack of a backbone. Even if it's not the vocal and intimidating presence of TC, they could use the shot blocking and activity from What Williams brought.

LonghornDub · 12-27-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If I am not really smart at seeing through the curtains, then perhaps the error was yours. I took it as your saying something like "Hey, these are NBA players, they should be able to play defense no matter what." They being professionals, and all.

You took it incorrectly, and it's not because it was shrouded in curtains.

CapitanObvious · 12-27-2011, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

You turned the game off early, didn't you?

Wasn't able to watch the game actually. Was at work.

mavs777 · 12-27-2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

i dont blame it on the lockout. all the young teams that were crappy in the past are starting to get competive. kings, clips, twolves, pacers

The kings and wolves are still crappy, teams that have large roster turnover will take time to get on the same page. I agree that the effort isn't there, but its not just that, they don't anticapate (sp?) each others next move like last years team did and they do not play good position defense. It is going to take 10 or so games.

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

The kings and wolves are still crappy, teams that have large roster turnover will take time to get on the same page. I agree that the effort isn't there, but its not just that, they don't anticapate (sp?) each others next move like last years team did and they do not play good position defense. It is going to take 10 or so games.

Except in Denvers case...

chumdawg · 12-27-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You took it incorrectly, and it's not because it was shrouded in curtains.

Okay. Then what was it you meant? I was under the impression that you thought the Mavs had "professional" basketball players who should necessarily be able to play good defense whether or not their little Teddy bear Tyson Chandler was there to hold their hand.

mavs777 · 12-27-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Except in Denvers case...

Other than Rudy everyone that played major minutes for Denver was a nugget last year.

dude1394 · 12-27-2011, 01:12 AM

Carlisle taking the heat for this one. He has a point, he doesn't have these guys ready to play.

j0Shi · 12-27-2011, 01:22 AM

Most of the defensive success last year was based on solid rotations and helping each other out. That disappeared now because of all the new faces on the roster, not entirely because Chandler is gone. They need time to develop new chemistry.

But because of that the defensive liabilities of Kidd, Terry and Carter are unfolded. Kidd had great success against Kobe, Wade and company, but faster points like Lawson today just blow by and score or create for others at will: The Denver backcourt made most of their damage with Kidd and Terry both playing.

I'd be intrigued if West could play near 30 minutes (I doubt it). Throw in Roddy for additional 15 and you have a good perimeter defender on the court nearly all the time (+Marion). Carter could slide to the SF spot and get some minutes there. Roddy has the ability to fight throw screens and to catch up in the paint with his man, at least altering the shot. Kidd & Terry are two steps slow after the p&r and that's simply not good enough if the help defense is not tuned.

Next up is Harden & Westbrook and it won't be pretty. They'll eat Terry and Kidd alive.

mavs777 · 12-27-2011, 02:19 AM

Why not put Kidd on Affalo and avoid having Kidd/Carter paired together?

kg_veteran · 12-27-2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That was actually one of my least favorite teams. You had Harper as a holdover, and a way-too-young Jimmy Jackson...and then those lottery busts. It got a lot more fun when we added the other two J's...and Tony Dumas!

You've forgotten the greatness of Donald Hodge, I see.

kg_veteran · 12-27-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Okay. Then what was it you meant? I was under the impression that you thought the Mavs had "professional" basketball players who should necessarily be able to play good defense whether or not their little Teddy bear Tyson Chandler was there to hold their hand.

That was the impression I got, too.

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Other than Rudy everyone that played major minutes for Denver was a nugget last year.

K Mart, Jr SMith

EricaLubarsky · 12-27-2011, 10:32 AM

We need to chill.

1) Its not like this phenomenon of losing bad is a new one. I cant tell you how many games we allowed FG% in the 50s and 60s and were slaughtered on the boards. That was WITH Chandler. That was also the same team that won the championship last year.

2) We are obviously hung over, which is not unusual in the history of the NBA.

3) We are introducing a lot of new players and new plays in the playbook, without the benefit of a full pre-season and training camp. We are going to learn as we go. A team simply cant win a game playing unfamiliar plays in practice mode. Good teams will eat you alive doing that and both teams so far are heading to the playoffs.

4) We got beat by the second best team in the league on opening night, and then got slammed with another good team the very next night with no time to recover, practice or retool. The B2Bs are rough particularly early when there is so much work to be done and B2Bs always reduce the team's chances. Denver was excited for their first game. We got slaughtered in our opener and then little more than 24hours later we had to face another team

5) Im not going to say that our chances are great this year-- few teams repeat. Fewer with a completely retooled roster of older players. This shortened season benefits the young guys and the guys that have already played a season together. Miami, Chicago, Denver, OKC are all winners. We have less time to gel, less time to practice and less time to rest the team's older bones-- plus its hard to be motivated when you've been chasing a championship for more than a decade and you finally get it. The guys are pros, but its hard to get up when you've already secured your dream

Im not saying this team will win it all, but this team will make the playoffs for the 11th straight year and they will pull it together. This team is not in freefall and people need to check their overreactions at the door for at least another month.

Bayliss · 12-27-2011, 11:04 AM

Erica, you gotta take down the Chuck sig. There aint no way in hell he gave this year's Mavs team a thumbs up the way they have played.

ibivibiv · 12-27-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

Forget about plan when Howard will go to NJ for Lopez+Okur in late February.

this is my greatest fear, if Howard goes to NJ we are F'd, and for a long time.

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 03:29 PM

Yes, because a team without Howard will not win it all!

ibivibiv · 12-27-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yes, because a team without Howard will not win it all!

You know exactly what I mean, there aren't a lot of big names freeing up anytime soon and we are about to lose all of ours...

2013 you have what... Rubio? Griffen (like he'd leave if the Clippers keep their momentum they have now) and Rubio is still and unproven talent

2014 is a little better, Wade and Lebron but that is Wade + 2 more years on his knees and Lebron... well I can't imagine him wanting to come here

So any other wise cracks, or can we agree the stakes are high with us gambling on picking up our next "super star".

Dale4Saul2Red0 · 12-27-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

this is my greatest fear, if Howard goes to NJ we are F'd, and for a long time.

Howard is overrated. He doesn't really make those around him better 1 of his 4 "blocks" is a goal tend. Our best chance would be to draft a C. I mean we still do have the draft you know.

I would much rather have Deron. This is turning into a PG driven league.

tcat075 · 12-27-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

I think, that's the plan. Dwight Howard would be perfect for Dallas. Much better than Deron Williams.

Much better?

Dwight is a better player, but when it comes to PG, we are going to be pretty bare at that position once Kidd retires soon. Deron is a superstar, and he's young. I'd love to have him.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale4Saul2Red0

Howard is overrated. He doesn't really make those around him better 1 of his 4 "blocks" is a goal tend. Our best chance would be to draft a C. I mean we still do have the draft you know.

I would much rather have Deron. This is turning into a PG driven league.

I was about to write an argument of why you're wrong, but why? It's freaking Dwight Howard. If you think he's overrated, fine, but good luck finding anyone who agrees with you...

ibivibiv · 12-27-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale4Saul2Red0

Howard is overrated. He doesn't really make those around him better 1 of his 4 "blocks" is a goal tend. Our best chance would be to draft a C. I mean we still do have the draft you know.

I would much rather have Deron. This is turning into a PG driven league.

Exactly but Howard -> NJ means no Deron or Howard to here. Deron will stay in NJ if they nab Howard so it's a double wammy. As long as Howard goes somewhere else I think Deron is ours for the taking.

mavs777 · 12-27-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

K Mart, Jr SMith

not sure your point, they are still giving minutes to players that know the system and have been playing together.

mavs777 · 12-27-2011, 04:30 PM

NJ would have no use for Okur. Lopez is decent player coming off a serious injury. And there are quite a few good shooting guards available in next years free agency.

SMC0007 · 12-27-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

not sure your point, they are still giving minutes to players that know the system and have been playing together.

Sure, point is they were key players. We are still giving minutes to players that know the system and have been playing together.