Butler/Haywood/Stevenson to the Mavs!! - Page 9 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Skywalker · 02-14-2010, 11:14 AM

So will Roddy give his number 3 to Caron?

92bDad · 02-14-2010, 11:28 AM

This appears to be a positive deal for the Mavs...is this the end of the deals, or is there room for yet another "Salary Dump"

Do the Mavs still have the expiring contract chip of Dampier, and can they turn that into yet another impact player to boost up the 2nd half and playoff roster?

Underdog · 02-14-2010, 11:33 AM

Harris/Stackhouse/Howard/Gooden

for

Kidd/Butler/Marion/Haywood

(and we're primed to make a big move this summer!)

Anyone still wanna fire Donnie Nelson?

Underdog · 02-14-2010, 12:03 PM

Is this deal Gasol-like? We traded them bench players for 2 of their 3 best starters...

Does this at least make up for Cuban getting hosed in the Kidd/Harris deal?

left texas · 02-14-2010, 12:07 PM

[QUOTE=alby;1065446]GREAT trade for Dallas

Quote:

Ultimately, I hope this brings back the excitement to the AAC and to Maverick Nation, it's been lacking so far this year.

This team and its fans have needed an infusion for awhile now, and I think we have just made a trade that will have both this team and Maverick Nation chomping at the bit for the second half of the season. Can we join the Lakers at the top? That is to be seen but if this team can gel and Dirk get excited, watch out.

Quote:

However, the truth of the matter is the trade improved our team both offensively and defensively. What more can a fan ask for? Good job Donnie and Cubes.

Thank you Mark!

DubOverdose · 02-14-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Is this deal Gasol-like? We traded them bench players for 2 of their 3 best starters...

Does this at least make up for Cuban getting hosed in the Kidd/Harris deal?

Harris has been pedestrian this year, so I don't think we can blame Cuban much now. Probably could have gotten more talent back, but we did get a very solid PG that has been healthy since we picked him up.

I don't think this is Gasol-like because we didn't give up a spare for an all star, but it is definitely closer to it on paper than we've had in a while.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-14-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Is this deal Gasol-like? We traded them bench players for 2 of their 3 best starters...

Does this at least make up for Cuban getting hosed in the Kidd/Harris deal?

I think this and drafting/keeping Roddy is pretty good, yes.

It is better to try and fail versus not trying at all. If the Mavs don't win a championship this season well...at least they tried to maximize the team's weaknesses as best as possible without sacrificing future flexibility.

rabbitproof · 02-14-2010, 12:34 PM

Hosed?

Who got the All-Star and who got the leader of a single-digit win team?

Lowblow but that's how it go.

aurelino9 · 02-14-2010, 12:48 PM

Rotation-wise, come playoff time, the following are guaranteed to play:
Dirk, Kidd, Terry, Marion, Butler, Haywood, Dampier (if healthy).

If Carlisle sticks to an 8-man rotation, who else should play? Of the above,
only Kidd is a legit PG so either you are asking Jet to run the point (for 8-10 minutes) off the bench
or you need JJB/Beaubois. Front court is more stable since Dirk is going to play 37-38 mpg anyway.

I'd be happier if they get another backup frontcourt player. Damp's health is up in the air and Najera doesn't cut it.

AO41 · 02-14-2010, 12:54 PM

Honestly in the playoffs I wouldnt mind having Butler ruin a few plays.
Kidd
Jet
Butler
Marion
Dirk
Haywood
Damp
TT ( he can be very effective)
Stevenson or Roddy

dalger · 02-14-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Harris has been pedestrian this year, so I don't think we can blame Cuban much now. Probably could have gotten more talent back, but we did get a very solid PG that has been healthy since we picked him up.

I don't think this is Gasol-like because we didn't give up a spare for an all star, but it is definitely closer to it on paper than we've had in a while.

Yep. We didn't gasol anyone here, but it's pretty close to a one-sided deal talent-wise. I'd say on paper it's comparable to San Antonio trading Bowen, Oberto and Thomas for Jefferson, even though I clearly hope and believe that the outcome will be better for us than the Spurs.

left texas · 02-14-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Honestly in the playoffs I wouldnt mind having Butler ruin a few plays.
Kidd
Jet
Butler
Marion
Dirk
Haywood
Damp
TT ( he can be very effective)
Stevenson or Roddy

We did bring Butler in to ruin a few plays, did we? I hope not.

XERXES · 02-14-2010, 01:00 PM

When Avery tells you not to go out and party on your birthday you better keep your ass at home. Vindication.

mavsfan4lyfe201 · 02-14-2010, 01:12 PM

the kidd-harris trade was horrible at first and for about a year..but harris is proving to be injury prone..and im fine having the title hungry j-kidd

and this is no gasol type deal..but its closer than most deals to it..this was the best deal for the present and future

Dtownsfinest · 02-14-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Harris has been pedestrian this year, so I don't think we can blame Cuban much now. Probably could have gotten more talent back, but we did get a very solid PG that has been healthy since we picked him up.

I don't think this is Gasol-like because we didn't give up a spare for an all star, but it is definitely closer to it on paper than we've had in a while.

Harris is looking pedestrian because he plays for a terrible team lol. Kidd, Jefferson and Vince all looked pedestrian on that same NETS team when they sucked as well.

grndmstr_c · 02-14-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Harris is looking pedestrian because he plays for a terrible team lol. Kidd, Jefferson and Vince all looked pedestrian on that same NETS team when they sucked as well.

Yes, Devin's having a bad year because his team sucks, and the suckage that is the Nets this year is no different from the suckage that was the Nets back when they were making the playoffs with Kidd.

mavsfan2323 · 02-14-2010, 02:26 PM

harris is playing better after coming back from his most recent injury, but i still wouldn't undo that trade. and i, for one, am on the love this trade side. i really think we can compete with anyone in the league if this group gels and gets to playing as a team by playoff time. really excited here

edit: can't wait for tuesday

EricaLubarsky · 02-14-2010, 02:30 PM

I wonder if we will address our homecourt pride situation.

At the very least I see this team becoming very motivated, more focused (with Josh gone) and more talented.

speaking of Harris-- bring back Del!

mavsfan1000 · 02-14-2010, 02:34 PM

Howard used to be great at home. Those days are over as well as his time in Dallas. We'll see if Butler could bring what Howard did 3-4 years ago.

mavsfan2323 · 02-14-2010, 02:37 PM

live in OKC and just bought tickets to the first new look mavs game. i'm PUMPED!!!!!!

CapitanObvious · 02-14-2010, 02:41 PM

This is Dallas!

grndmstr_c · 02-14-2010, 02:44 PM

On topic, I'm pretty excited about this trade. I don't know that it's Gasol level, but to have addressed two needs with two quality players (even if we'll have to wait to see whether the fit with Caron is going to allow the team to get the most out of his talents) while maintaining full flexibility for the summer is damn fine work by the front office.

Two things that I'm going to be watching closely:
1) Damp's health. Dallas really needs to have two defensive bigs to battle with LA, Clevland, etc. Another issue is that if Damp can't go that means Dirk will be forced to play more center. While I fully expect there to be times when lineups with Dirk at the 5 will be advantageous for the Mavs, Dirk really needs some rest right now, and he won't be able to get that if he's having to cover for a center rotation that's been thinned by injuries.

2) The ability of Caron and Marion to play together at the 2/3. It goes without saying that either can play SF when the other goes to the bench, and I'm confident they'll make a fine 3/4 duo when Dirk sits or slides to the 5, but for this roster to really have a chance in the playoffs I think the lineups that have Caron/Marion/Dirk flanked by a pg and a center need to be strong options; starting and finishing options; game-turning options.

badfish22 · 02-14-2010, 02:56 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021600752.html

Article that tells the story of Caron Butler. Great read

jthig32 · 02-14-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Two things that I'm going to be watching closely:
1) Damp's health. Dallas really needs to have two defensive bigs to battle with LA, Clevland, etc. Another issue is that if Damp can't go that means Dirk will be forced to play more center. While I fully expect there to be times when lineups with Dirk at the 5 will be advantageous for the Mavs, Dirk really needs some rest right now, and he won't be able to get that if he's having to cover for a center rotation that's been thinned by injuries.

If they're as worried about Damp as we think, they will need to add another big man, right? Maybe a mobile center of some sort to be a match up player, rather than a regular member of the rotation. With two open roster spots and still having the TE, I'm curious to see what happens there.

Quote:

2) The ability of Caron and Marion to play together at the 2/3. It goes without saying that either can play SF when the other goes to the bench, and I'm confident they'll make a fine 3/4 duo when Dirk sits or slides to the 5, but for this roster to really have a chance in the playoffs I think the lineups that have Caron/Marion/Dirk flanked by a pg and a center need to be strong options; starting and finishing options; game-turning options.

Completely agree. I'm very eager to see this group hit the court so we can start getting answers to this.

I'm also very curious to see how Caron fits on this team and what happens to his offensive efficiency. He is, right now, the best second scoring option Dirk has ever played with. I'm very curious to see how that dynamic works and what effect it has on both players.

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

2) The ability of Caron and Marion to play together at the 2/3. It goes without saying that either can play SF when the other goes to the bench, and I'm confident they'll make a fine 3/4 duo when Dirk sits or slides to the 5, but for this roster to really have a chance in the playoffs I think the lineups that have Caron/Marion/Dirk flanked by a pg and a center need to be strong options; starting and finishing options; game-turning options.

Other than health...this is now THE key to the season.
I think Butler's ball handling and passing should make for a much better fit than Josh/Marion

jthig32 · 02-14-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Other than health...this is now THE key to the season.
I think Butler's ball handling and passing should make for a much better fit than Josh/Marion

I agree, however Josh was more capable of guarding most shooting guards.

tcat075 · 02-14-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

So will Roddy give his number 3 to Caron?

Oh my god, I can't take the drama!

tcat075 · 02-14-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021600752.html

Article that tells the story of Caron Butler. Great read

Yes, this was a fabulous article. Read every word. I strongly encourage it to those who haven't read it (though I bet many have since it was on DB's front page).

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I agree, however Josh was more capable of guarding most shooting guards.

#1 are you sure of that?

#2 I want Marion guarding the deadliest 2 guards anyway...

jthig32 · 02-14-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

#1 are you sure of that?

#2 I want Marion guarding the deadliest 2 guards anyway...

1. Yeah I feel pretty comfortable in saying that

2. That's true. What would concern me is a team that has a major offensive weapon at SF, and quick offensive weapon at SG. Denver comes to mind. I don't know how well Butler is going to keep up with JR Smith.

tcat075 · 02-14-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

1. Yeah I feel pretty comfortable in saying that

2. That's true. What would concern me is a team that has a major offensive weapon at SF, and quick offensive weapon at SG. Denver comes to mind. I don't know how well Butler is going to keep up with JR Smith.

Well, if everything else fails, we can go to Kidd. He's lost his quickness to keep up with fast point guards, but I beat he can keep up with the quick 2 guards just fine...we've seen it. Hell, we've seen him on Kobe and he wasn't totally abused...

jthig32 · 02-14-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Well, if everything else fails, we can go to Kidd. He's lost his quickness to keep up with fast point guards, but I beat he can keep up with the quick 2 guards just fine...we've seen it. Hell, we've seen him on Kobe and he wasn't totally abused...

True but then who does Caron guard? The PG?

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just curious to see how it works.

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021600752.html

anyone who wants to get some insight into Butler as a man, MUST read this.

tcat075 · 02-14-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

True but then who does Caron guard? The PG?

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just curious to see how it works.

No, Haywood's going to guard the PG, duh.

So no, I didn't totally think this through. But we have several options to guard SG's, and I trust Carlisle to somehow juggle it all. And I think Butler can defend most SG's.

92bDad · 02-14-2010, 03:42 PM

Good read and glad to see that Butler is a positive story after a troubled youth!!!

Hope he continues down this road and that others from where he grew up, past and present, will be inspired by him and make good choices.

Prayers for those who were victimized by those bad choices of his youth...like it or not, consumers in the drug trade are some type of victims and saddly, they turn to drugs and thus the dealers are simply opportunistic enablers who feed the negative system for a bit of cash.

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

1. Yeah I feel pretty comfortable in saying that

2. That's true. What would concern me is a team that has a major offensive weapon at SF, and quick offensive weapon at SG. Denver comes to mind. I don't know how well Butler is going to keep up with JR Smith.

From the little I've read about Butler over in the last couple days, I think a motivated Caron will be fine guarding guys man up. Not all world, but no slouch either.

Agreed, but when "on", JR Smith can give anyone headaches. But how will Smith handle the much stronger Butler?

The Nuggets just got a lot more to think about...and that is good.

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

And I think Butler can defend most SG's.

First off, most teams do not have dynamic scoring options at the 2 and 3...

like thiggy mentioned, Denver's 2/3 combo of Smith and Melo can be an exception...but Smith is insanely streaky.

sike · 02-14-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

So will Roddy give his number 3 to Caron?

I would kinda hope so. How attached to it could Roddy be?

badfish22 · 02-14-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I would kinda hope so. How attached to it could Roddy be?

Yeah but NBA rules dont allow it. Remember the whole JET/Marion 31 thing?

mavsfan2323 · 02-14-2010, 03:54 PM

we have 5 current or former all stars and 2 future hall of famers on this team. that's pretty impressive. i just hope we use that talent correctly