Gortat appears* bound for a team not named the Dallas Mavericks

[joemoeschmoe]

Originally Posted by GMFFDHT

Which size do you mean? His shoes?
nba.com Height: 6-11 / 2,11 for both.
If you're talking about his weight (nba.com: Weight: 240 lbs. / 108,9 kg. ) you could be right, but somewhere there was a read that he gained a lot of weight (muscles) - so I'm not sure this is still correct.

Side note: after all us german guys on this board, prepare for some polish and probably even french users here...starts to look like a Euroleague Team

Damp is listed as 265 on espn. Although, I'd guess he's actually bigger than that.

[bobatundi]

I really like the signing. We had to upgrade the center position, and I don't see that there was a better option available. Consider this:

With the Clippers somehow able to move Randolph (I'm already giving them GM of the year), I doubt they're looking to move Camby or Kaman anymore. Having three talented big men in the front court--especially when two of them are injury-prone--I can't see why they'd be looking to get rid of one.

Chandler is another option who MIGHT have been available--and while I like his game and would not have been upset to see him here, he's been very injury-prone (let's not forget, OKC vetoed the trade for him this past season after he failed a physical), and some of his offensive game may have been more a product of CP's drive & dish ability than his own particular skillset. Also not sure what it would have cost to get him.

Gortat is what, nine years younger than Damp, and half the price? For those who don't believe Gortat is better than Damp, think of it this way--Damp averaged 23 MPG last year--that's right, less than half the game. The other half, we had a combo of out of position (Dirk), undersized (Bass) or very raw (Hollins) players at C. There are worse things we could have than 24 minutes each of Damp & Gortat.

Also consider that, regardless of what happens with Damp in the next 6 months, it is almost certain that he will NOT be on this team for the 2010 season, so getting his eventual successor on the roster now--and at a relative bargain for big men in this league--is a solid move.

The only real complaint I can see is, what is the opportunity cost of our having signed Gortat? The MLE, and what other players we could have gotten for it. I don't really see a starting 2 out there available for the MLE, which is our primary need this offseason. Artest & Ariza would both have been nice parts to add, though both play a position where we are already solid (SF), and both had other suitors, so there's no guarantee we could have had either anyway. Turkoglu & Marion are both likely to get more than the MLE, so we're not in the race there anyway. What does that leave? Felton, maybe? Don't forget, we still have the Stack chip to play there, essentially giving us two MLE-level slots, albeit requiring that we find a willing trade partner.

In all this, I am assuming two things: first, we do re-sign Kidd, so we don't have an immediate need at PG; and second, that we are able to turn the Stack chip into a starting SG. If both those things happen, then we've essentially kept our entire lineup intact, and upgraded our two weakest positions--a solid offseason by any measure.

[sike]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

I really like the signing. We had to upgrade the center position, and I don't see that there was a better option available. Consider this:

With the Clippers somehow able to move Randolph (I'm already giving them GM of the year), I doubt they're looking to move Camby or Kaman anymore. Having three talented big men in the front court--especially when two of them are injury-prone--I can't see why they'd be looking to get rid of one.

Chandler is another option who MIGHT have been available--and while I like his game and would not have been upset to see him here, he's been very injury-prone (let's not forget, OKC vetoed the trade for him this past season after he failed a physical), and some of his offensive game may have been more a product of CP's drive & dish ability than his own particular skillset. Also not sure what it would have cost to get him.

Gortat is what, nine years younger than Damp, and half the price? For those who don't believe Gortat is better than Damp, think of it this way--Damp averaged 23 MPG last year--that's right, less than half the game. The other half, we had a combo of out of position (Dirk), undersized (Bass) or very raw (Hollins) players at C. There are worse things we could have than 24 minutes each of Damp & Gortat.

Also consider that, regardless of what happens with Damp in the next 6 months, it is almost certain that he will NOT be on this team for the 2010 season, so getting his eventual successor on the roster now--and at a relative bargain for big men in this league--is a solid move.

The only real complaint I can see is, what is the opportunity cost of our having signed Gortat? The MLE, and what other players we could have gotten for it. I don't really see a starting 2 out there available for the MLE, which is our primary need this offseason. Artest & Ariza would both have been nice parts to add, though both play a position where we are already solid (SF), and both had other suitors, so there's no guarantee we could have had either anyway. Turkoglu & Marion are both likely to get more than the MLE, so we're not in the race there anyway. What does that leave? Felton, maybe? Don't forget, we still have the Stack chip to play there, essentially giving us two MLE-level slots, albeit requiring that we find a willing trade partner.

In all this, I am assuming two things: first, we do re-sign Kidd, so we don't have an immediate need at PG; and second, that we are able to turn the Stack chip into a starting SG. If both those things happen, then we've essentially kept our entire lineup intact, and upgraded our two weakest positions--a solid offseason by any measure.

great post, bob

[chumdawg]

Very well said, boba!

[mqywaaah]

Right on bobatun!

[dude1394]

Always have to like this.

Are there any *other* tall players the Rockets can pursue now?

It looks like Marcin Gortat has rejected the over-the-top wooing efforts of Daryl Morey. Translation? It appears that the only legit center on the free agent market has spurned the Rockets' advances to sign with the Dallas Mavericks. Yes, Mark Cuban somehow out-bid Daryl Morey. Damn him.

So, uhhhh, are there any tall or even tall-ish players available that the Rockets can sign? Let's face facts - Yao Ming ain't walking through that door until at the earliest March of 2010, so we need someone to man the center position. There isn't a Dikembe option this year. Of the remaining options......... Brian Cook refuses to step inside the three-point line. Scola and Hayes will battle you, but they simply are not true centers and are undersized at the "4" position to begin with. Joey Dorsey would probably do anything (other than giving up strippers cold turkey) to get on the court, but he's not an NBA center.
That doesn't provide the Rockets with much good news. Shit.
Damn you, Mark Cuban!!

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

With the Clippers somehow able to move Randolph (I'm already giving them GM of the year), I doubt they're looking to move Camby or Kaman anymore. .

"Other teams did better in securing the players we need, so the crap our brain trust does is excusable" is a poor basis for rationalization.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Always have to like this.

[darkwitzki]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Always have to like this.

We could ship em Damp !

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

We could ship em Damp !

Send em Damp for Battier+filler, or Damp,Stack for Battier +

[sike]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Send em Damp for Battier+filler, or Damp,Stack for Battier +

Damp for Battier? That doesn't seem like the best use of the Damp contract.

though I do like Shane's effect on the floor.

[FiZth]

Mavericks owner Mark Cuban used his Twitter page to deny reports that the team is pursuing Glenn Davis.

"Contrary to reports, the Mavs are not pursuing Glenn Davis. Great player, but we like our guys," Cuban wrote on Sunday morning.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...ursuing_davis/

---

I don't like this one:
"...but we like our guys".

Why didn't he said "we have other plans" or "Glenn Davis is not a player we are looking for". When they really plan to keep Damp, Hollins + sign only Gortat, then I am going to start firedonnienelson.com.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by FiZth

Mavericks owner Mark Cuban used his Twitter page to deny reports that the team is pursuing Glenn Davis.

"Contrary to reports, the Mavs are not pursuing Glenn Davis. Great player, but we like our guys," Cuban wrote on Sunday morning.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...ursuing_davis/

If we wanted Big Baby, we could have just drafted him instead of Nick Fazekas...

[chumdawg]

Glenn Davis? What reports??

Roddick and Federer going to the fifth set!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Glenn Davis? What reports??

Coming outta Boston

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Coming outta Boston

I cant think of a thing out of boston worth listening to. Not even the band Boston (from Ohio)

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

"Other teams did better in securing the players we need, so the crap our brain trust does is excusable" is a poor basis for rationalization.

Are you implying that we "need" Zach Randolph? That is ludicrous.

[EricaLubarsky]

Were missing out on other black players who play tough and have an attitudes like Spartan warriors. Our team is truly doomed.

Glen "Big (cry) Baby" Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GXgFC8q32Q

Randolph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13PK...eature=related
Randolph vs Cavs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg&feature=fvsr
Randolph vs Raptors stifling defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHho...eature=related
Amazing putback vs the Knicks

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by FiZth

Mavericks owner Mark Cuban used his Twitter page to deny reports that the team is pursuing Glenn Davis.

"Contrary to reports, the Mavs are not pursuing Glenn Davis. Great player, but we like our guys," Cuban wrote on Sunday morning.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...ursuing_davis/

---

I don't like this one:
"...but we like our guys".

Why didn't he said "we have other plans" or "Glenn Davis is not a player we are looking for". When they really plan to keep Damp, Hollins + sign only Gortat, then I am going to start firedonnienelson.com.

Given the subject of the rumor (Davis), the "we like our guys" comment could be interpreted as a reference to Bass (and perhaps Singleton, as well). Under those circumstances, I'm inclined to agree with him.

And actually, even if he's referencing Damp, I'm inclined to agree with him there too, as I'd much rather have Damp at center than Davis (goes without saying that Gortat likewise ranks as a higher priority).

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Were missing out on other black players who play tough and have an attitudes like Spartan warriors. Our team is truly doomed.

Glen "Big (cry) Baby" Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GXgFC8q32Q

Randolph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13PK...eature=related
Randolph vs Cavs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg&feature=fvsr
Randolph vs Raptors stifling defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHho...eature=related
Amazing putback vs the Knicks

Randolph vs Cavs is beyond hilarious. Perfectly done!

[pokwaPL]

Everybody in Poland love to see Gortat in Mavs!!! Go Polish Hammer! Greetings from Poland guys

[EricaLubarsky]

3 more days until we can even sign him, and 10 days till we know if he's ours. This offseason has way too much potential but is very trying on ones patience.

[Mavsfan2thedeath]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

I really like the signing. We had to upgrade the center position, and I don't see that there was a better option available. Consider this:

With the Clippers somehow able to move Randolph (I'm already giving them GM of the year), I doubt they're looking to move Camby or Kaman anymore. Having three talented big men in the front court--especially when two of them are injury-prone--I can't see why they'd be looking to get rid of one.

Chandler is another option who MIGHT have been available--and while I like his game and would not have been upset to see him here, he's been very injury-prone (let's not forget, OKC vetoed the trade for him this past season after he failed a physical), and some of his offensive game may have been more a product of CP's drive & dish ability than his own particular skillset. Also not sure what it would have cost to get him.

Gortat is what, nine years younger than Damp, and half the price? For those who don't believe Gortat is better than Damp, think of it this way--Damp averaged 23 MPG last year--that's right, less than half the game. The other half, we had a combo of out of position (Dirk), undersized (Bass) or very raw (Hollins) players at C. There are worse things we could have than 24 minutes each of Damp & Gortat.

Also consider that, regardless of what happens with Damp in the next 6 months, it is almost certain that he will NOT be on this team for the 2010 season, so getting his eventual successor on the roster now--and at a relative bargain for big men in this league--is a solid move.

The only real complaint I can see is, what is the opportunity cost of our having signed Gortat? The MLE, and what other players we could have gotten for it. I don't really see a starting 2 out there available for the MLE, which is our primary need this offseason. Artest & Ariza would both have been nice parts to add, though both play a position where we are already solid (SF), and both had other suitors, so there's no guarantee we could have had either anyway. Turkoglu & Marion are both likely to get more than the MLE, so we're not in the race there anyway. What does that leave? Felton, maybe? Don't forget, we still have the Stack chip to play there, essentially giving us two MLE-level slots, albeit requiring that we find a willing trade partner.

In all this, I am assuming two things: first, we do re-sign Kidd, so we don't have an immediate need at PG; and second, that we are able to turn the Stack chip into a starting SG. If both those things happen, then we've essentially kept our entire lineup intact, and upgraded our two weakest positions--a solid offseason by any measure.

excellent post. also, take a look at each's career stats per 36 minutes via www.basketball-reference.com :

Dampier: 11.3 pts, 10.6 rebounds, and 2.1 blocks

Gortat: 11.2 pts, 13 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks

on the surface, this looks like pretty much a lateral move at center, except for the fact that Gortat is still fairly raw, 24 years old, and has alot more room to grow. Dampier, on the other hand has maxed out his ability and is in all honesty on the decline (although he was solid last season). so i consider this an excellent move that will be even better if we're able to package stack and damp to get a quality starting 2 guard (if there is one to be had).

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Oh come on. Eschmeyer put out plenty of solid games when he was given playing time. It's not so much a comparison as a warning that low minute players don't always carry the same level of production into larger playing time.

That's certainly not a lack of basketball knowledge to remember that.

I think you can count Esch's "solid" games in a Mavs uni on one hand. Couldn't comment on the one starting season he had w/ NJ when the Nets were HORRIBLE.

I'm not sold on Gortat but my lord, was there ever a bigger embarrassment to basketball than Evan Eschmeyer?

In 2000-2001 he led the league in some proprietary, pre-Hollinger player efficiency stat that Cuban was all hyped about. I always saw that signing as a knee jerk to the Sonics' Calvin Booth deal, and the first and last time Cuban used that particular stat to evaluate a player. Even then I had this image of Nellie picking up an extra 12-pack on the way home the night after Cuban proudly pranced in and announced that his statistician had found a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow named Evan Eschmeyer.

So yeah, to compare anyone to Evan Eschmeyer, outside of Antoine Rigaudeau, is going to be met with some harsh opposition.

And I'll guarantee you Esch had no more than 5 solid games as a Mav. Solid being 20 minutes played or more with at least 8 points OR 8 rebounds. I'm going totally on memory but I'm 99% sure I'm right.

Back on that deal where the Sonics signed Calvin Booth away for 6 years @ the MLE, I see that as a precursor to the Jerome James deal, which might be a precursor to the Gortat deal.. each putting in a career-defining performance down the stretch, each going a little further in the playoffs than the previous... each getting a fully loaded MLE deal, only to be a giant bust thereafter.

The success rate for fully loaded MLEs since the 1999 lockout is probably less than 10%.

I am super skeptical of Gortat, as a result.

[chumdawg]

You have a wildly mistaken view of cause and effect.

[dirno2000]

I only vaguely remember the Boothe summer but to my recollection there wasn't a bidding war. I think it was just Seattle saying "we've got to have this guy". I do remember the Jerome James summer and Isiah was the only one on him.

So while there are some similarities it's comforting that smart guys like Daryl Morey and John Hollinger think a lot of Gortat. I believe the Spurs had him on their list too. This is not a case of beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a lot of respected basketball minds think this guy could be good.

The other thing that separates him from Booth and James is the fact that he's been consistently good, although in limited minutes, for two years straight. His buzz picked up in the Philly series but he wasn't a factor in the finals. This is not a case of a player turning it on for two weeks for a contract, he's produced every time he's been on the floor.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

So while there are some similarities it's comforting that smart guys like Daryl Morey and John Hollinger think a lot of Gortat. I believe the Spurs had him on their list too. This is not a case of beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a lot of respected basketball minds think this guy could be good.

The other thing that separates him from Booth and James is the fact that he's been consistently good, although in limited minutes, for two years straight. His buzz picked up in the Philly series but he wasn't a factor in the finals. This is not a case of a player turning it on for two weeks for a contract, he's produced every time he's been on the floor.

great...Great stuff.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

I think you can count Esch's "solid" games in a Mavs uni on one hand. Couldn't comment on the one starting season he had w/ NJ when the Nets were HORRIBLE.

I'm not sold on Gortat but my lord, was there ever a bigger embarrassment to basketball than Evan Eschmeyer?

In 2000-2001 he led the league in some proprietary, pre-Hollinger player efficiency stat that Cuban was all hyped about. I always saw that signing as a knee jerk to the Sonics' Calvin Booth deal, and the first and last time Cuban used that particular stat to evaluate a player. Even then I had this image of Nellie picking up an extra 12-pack on the way home the night after Cuban proudly pranced in and announced that his statistician had found a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow named Evan Eschmeyer.

So yeah, to compare anyone to Evan Eschmeyer, outside of Antoine Rigaudeau, is going to be met with some harsh opposition.

And I'll guarantee you Esch had no more than 5 solid games as a Mav. Solid being 20 minutes played or more with at least 8 points OR 8 rebounds. I'm going totally on memory but I'm 99% sure I'm right.

Back on that deal where the Sonics signed Calvin Booth away for 6 years @ the MLE, I see that as a precursor to the Jerome James deal, which might be a precursor to the Gortat deal.. each putting in a career-defining performance down the stretch, each going a little further in the playoffs than the previous... each getting a fully loaded MLE deal, only to be a giant bust thereafter.

The success rate for fully loaded MLEs since the 1999 lockout is probably less than 10%.

I am super skeptical of Gortat, as a result.

So you disagree with the comparison, but agree with my caution and even take it a step further by being "super skeptical"....

Ok.

[TheMaverick]

I just wanted to welcome all the new members from Poland.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So you disagree with the comparison, but agree with my caution and even take it a step further by being "super skeptical"....

Ok.

Bingo. I just couldn't resist an opportunity to rag on Eschmeyer's cro-magnon head and Cuban's cro-magnon scouting technique that brought him in.

On the "give a young center a max-year MLE" boat, at that. It's been flame-out after flame-out since I've been paying attention to the NBA offseason.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we wanted Big Baby, we could have just drafted him instead of Nick Fazekas...

best. post. ever.

[LSMF]

Its good to see folks starting to like Gortat, I couldn't understand all the hate around his signing. He is legit, and will prove all of his doubters wrong. That is all.

[sike]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Its good to see folks starting to like Gortat, I couldn't understand all the hate around his signing. He is legit, and will prove all of his doubters wrong. That is all.

I'm sure even the "haters" hope you're right.

[TheMaverick]

Who were the doubters?

[ty]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

I think you can count Esch's "solid" games in a Mavs uni on one hand. Couldn't comment on the one starting season he had w/ NJ when the Nets were HORRIBLE.

I'm not sold on Gortat but my lord, was there ever a bigger embarrassment to basketball than Evan Eschmeyer?

In 2000-2001 he led the league in some proprietary, pre-Hollinger player efficiency stat that Cuban was all hyped about. I always saw that signing as a knee jerk to the Sonics' Calvin Booth deal, and the first and last time Cuban used that particular stat to evaluate a player. Even then I had this image of Nellie picking up an extra 12-pack on the way home the night after Cuban proudly pranced in and announced that his statistician had found a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow named Evan Eschmeyer.

So yeah, to compare anyone to Evan Eschmeyer, outside of Antoine Rigaudeau, is going to be met with some harsh opposition.

And I'll guarantee you Esch had no more than 5 solid games as a Mav. Solid being 20 minutes played or more with at least 8 points OR 8 rebounds. I'm going totally on memory but I'm 99% sure I'm right.

Back on that deal where the Sonics signed Calvin Booth away for 6 years @ the MLE, I see that as a precursor to the Jerome James deal, which might be a precursor to the Gortat deal.. each putting in a career-defining performance down the stretch, each going a little further in the playoffs than the previous... each getting a fully loaded MLE deal, only to be a giant bust thereafter.

The success rate for fully loaded MLEs since the 1999 lockout is probably less than 10%.

I am super skeptical of Gortat, as a result.

EE > PP

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by MavericksFan12

reported this a few days ago. Check it out, these guys are on top of their game in the sports world.

Please ban this spammer

[jthig32]

I like this Gortat guy already:

"I just think that Dallas was a better fit for me," Gortat said. "They have Jason Kidd, and he's a great point guard. They've got Dirk Nowitzki, who is the best power forward in the league.

[sike]

who doesn't like that! ^^^

great to hear this kid wants to play with his betters...

[Maringa]

So when is the do or die date on Gortat? How long do we have to keep waiting before Orlando decides to match?

[dirno2000]

They have a week.