Mavs Free Agency 11/12 - Page 9 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mac222b · 12-01-2011, 11:05 AM

No one is giving TC a max contract. Some of this is just posturing, with a touch of bruised ego.
4 yrs. 48 mil, as Sefant suggested, sounds about right.
What team is gonna offer significantly more than that? Is he going to leave a championship team with a great shot at repeating for some borderline playoff team for a few million extra bucks? Unless there's more here than we know i just dont see it.

sefant77 · 12-01-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Goodbye Tyson Chandler, hello Deron Williams.

Season possibly lost, franchise definitely saved. Do it.

I think we have better chances getting Deron or Dwight in a S&T where Chandler is a trade piece than signing them next summer as FA.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I wasn't referring to "the business" being paying the luxury tax. What I was referring to was the possibility that tyson gets hurt and can't play...THAT is the business and there isn't anything you can do about it.

Sure I understand that cubes wants and needs to cut costs, I have no problem with that..but IMO cutting Tyson is a huge step backwards... And I expect if that is what happens, then this team will never get to the finals again. They will be competitive as they have been until dirk hangs it up, but realisitically I think we all know they probably won't get back there. At least that's my perception.

Signing a guy with a signifigant injury history does generally make it more likely he will have another

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 11:49 AM

Tyson obviously has been hurt...but he surely looked healed this year. Now I don't know what that means other than he was/is one of the most athletic center I've ever seen, jumping and moving wise.

If cubes is willing to give him 10-12million a year versus 12-14million a year, I would think that the injury concern is just a part of the package. If you think he's going to break down then why would you even give him a 10million/year contract?

If it was Roddy B on the other hand...well....health certainly has to be taken into account.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-01-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you think he's going to break down then why would you even give him a 10million/year contract?

I think that's a good question. Will the FO even give Chandler a bigish multi-year offer? I'd be a little peeved if they didn't at least offer him 10-11 mil a year.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Tyson obviously has been hurt...but he surely looked healed this year. Now I don't know what that means other than he was/is one of the most athletic center I've ever seen, jumping and moving wise.

If cubes is willing to give him 10-12million a year versus 12-14million a year, I would think that the injury concern is just a part of the package. If you think he's going to break down then why would you even give him a 10million/year contract?

If it was Roddy B on the other hand...well....health certainly has to be taken into account.

You realize that tyson has a signifigantly larger injury history than roddy right?

As for why you go ten but not 12 or 12 but not 14, theres a risk reward factor. Its up to cubes to decide where he thinks that is.

Now all that being said, whos going to give tyson this huge contract? Hes of no use to a bad team and what contenders can make that huge offer and/or need a center? The more i think about it the more i think he gets 4/40

Ninkobei · 12-01-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

You realize that tyson has a signifigantly larger injury history than roddy right?

As for why you go ten but not 12 or 12 but not 14, theres a risk reward factor. Its up to cubes to decide where he thinks that is.

Now all that being said, whos going to give tyson this huge contract? Hes of no use to a bad team and what contenders can make that huge offer and/or need a center? The more i think about it the more i think he gets 4/40

Norm seems to think San Antonio or Houston would be most interested. He also said that if the mavs don't re-sign Chandler, or sign him to a 1 year deal, next year they will be Under the cap and free to make a move on whomever (Deron, obviously). If that's true then I'd say sign Chandler for 11mil, put Amnesty on Haywood to get rid of his awful contract and try to find a loophole or two to fill in the rest of the gap.

spreedom · 12-01-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Catch-22.

We can't afford both...

We could probably find a way to lure him here... it would be really tough though. If we used the Amnesty clause on Haywood in the 2012 offseason, then traded away every other player, we would probably be owing something like $32M to Dirk/Tyson. That would give us cap space to sign D-Will, or possibly do a sign-and-trade to send them Roddy/Dojo if it gets NJ to give Deron an extra year.

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

You realize that tyson has a signifigantly larger injury history than roddy right?

As for why you go ten but not 12 or 12 but not 14, theres a risk reward factor. Its up to cubes to decide where he thinks that is.

Now all that being said, whos going to give tyson this huge contract? Hes of no use to a bad team and what contenders can make that huge offer and/or need a center? The more i think about it the more i think he gets 4/40

If you mean hurt more because he's been in the league longer then yea.

But if you take a season as 82 games. Tyson has played 80% of them, roddy only 51%. I realize that roddy may not have played games he was eligible for, but it appears roddy is hugely more injury risk than Tyson. My math was a quick back of the envelope, but its probably about right.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Norm seems to think San Antonio or Houston would be most interested. He also said that if the mavs don't re-sign Chandler, or sign him to a 1 year deal, next year they will be Under the cap and free to make a move on whomever (Deron, obviously). If that's true then I'd say sign Chandler for 11mil, put Amnesty on Haywood to get rid of his awful contract and try to find a loophole or two to fill in the rest of the gap.

Houston isnt a contender and how does san antonio have cap room?

San antonio has 10 mil more in contracts than the mavs.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:12 PM

What is the actual cap btw?

Melonhead · 12-01-2011, 01:12 PM

I understand where Chandler is coming from. Its his last big contract and he wants to maximize that. At the same time, he isnt struggling, and I think a
13 mil/year or 14 contract would suffice. If he wants way over that, then there isnt much you can do. If its really all about money for him, then oh well.

But not going after him this year in hopes of landing Williams or Howard next year is a pipedream. Time is now in Dallas.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I understand where Chandler is coming from. Its his last big contract and he wants to maximize that. At the same time, he isnt struggling, and I think a
13 mil/year or 14 contract would suffice. If he wants way over that, then there isnt much you can do. If its really all about money for him, then oh well.

But not going after him this year in hopes of landing Williams or Howard next year is a pipedream. Time is now in Dallas.

I repeat how is he going to get that money without us doing a sign and trade?

Melonhead · 12-01-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

No one is giving TC a max contract. Some of this is just posturing, with a touch of bruised ego.
4 yrs. 48 mil, as Sefant suggested, sounds about right.
What team is gonna offer significantly more than that? Is he going to leave a championship team with a great shot at repeating for some borderline playoff team for a few million extra bucks? Unless there's more here than we know i just dont see it.

My thoughts exactly.

Melonhead · 12-01-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I repeat how is he going to get that money without us doing a sign and trade?

Haha, I do not know hows its gonna all work out. I just wanna hear that the Mavs actually made a push for him. If we hear he gets signed for 12/13 mil on another team, Ill be extremely disappointed.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Haha, I do not know hows its gonna all work out. I just wanna hear that the Mavs actually made a push for him. If we hear he gets signed for 12/13 mil on another team, Ill be extremely disappointed.

If he signs for more than 11 mil it will be a sign and trade

clutch#41 · 12-01-2011, 01:24 PM

i trust in Cuban , always have always will. im on both of the sides of the chandler situation, i want to keep him but not overpay him or keep it to where we're financially out of the 2012 free agency period and beyond. maybe cuban and D.will had a talk whenever he used to visit the mavs locker room. maybe they have something going on that nobody knows. he is from the colony high school in texas and grew up here.. we can only hope and trust in cuban!!

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:31 PM

Also i really dont understand houston signing tyson. You really wanna commit 35 million to kevin martin, luis scola and tyson chandler??? Ughh. And they have a lil less than 11 mil in cap room per some quick googling of the cap and hoopshyping their salary

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:43 PM

What we need to be scared of is oklahoma amnestying perkins and signing chandler,

Westbrook, harden, durant, ibaka, chandler Sefalosha, collison would be ridiculous

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 01:49 PM

On a lighter note, Chris Bosh has been "bulking up" and is open to playing the 5 if needed.

ROFLMAO

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

On a lighter note, Chris Bosh has been "bulking up" and is open to playing the 5 if needed.

ROFLMAO

So hes up to.... What 195 now?

Rick41 · 12-01-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

What we need to be scared of is oklahoma amnestying perkins and signing chandler,

Westbrook, harden, durant, ibaka, chandler Sefalosha, collison would be ridiculous

Can they do this?

What is Perkins' contract?

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Can they do this?

What is Perkins' contract?

4 years. 32.5 mil remaining

Edit-and yes they can. The issue is that it could get a bit tricky to resign westbrook and harden if they do

mavs777 · 12-01-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

No one is giving TC a max contract. Some of this is just posturing, with a touch of bruised ego.
4 yrs. 48 mil, as Sefant suggested, sounds about right.
What team is gonna offer significantly more than that? Is he going to leave a championship team with a great shot at repeating for some borderline playoff team for a few million extra bucks? Unless there's more here than we know i just dont see it.

Its going to be more than a "few million" im sure there will be a team that is realistic that they have no shot at the elite free agents and will give him at least a 5 year 65 million dollar offer if not more.

As for teams that can go after him and make sense Denver (doesn't look like nene is coming back), the Rockets, Pacers, Kings, Wizards.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Its going to be more than a "few million" im sure there will be a team that is realistic that they have no shot at the elite free agents and will give him at least a 5 year 65 million dollar offer if not more.

Who? What value does he have to a bad team? Does anyone come to a game to watch tyson play? Hes an incredibly valuable player to a contender but thats his only market and for the most part contenders dont have cap room or will put themselves ina tough spot to resign their own guys at a later date if they go after him

mavs777 · 12-01-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

What we need to be scared of is oklahoma amnestying perkins and signing chandler,

Westbrook, harden, durant, ibaka, chandler Sefalosha, collison would be ridiculous

There is no way they will amnestying Perkins, and if they would do it, it would be more about making sure their core can be their long term.

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

On a lighter note, Chris Bosh has been "bulking up" and is open to playing the 5 if needed.

ROFLMAO

Don't know if he can carry that weight, dude passed out after losing Game 6.

mavs777 · 12-01-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Who? What value does he have to a bad team? Does anyone come to a game to watch tyson play? Hes an incredibly valuable player to a contender but thats his only market and for the most part contenders dont have cap room or will put themselves ina tough spot to resign their own guys at a later date if they go after him

Can't tell if serious, he isn't a superstar but he makes a team like Denver or Houston considerably better and a playoff team at the least. He helps anyteam that wants to get better at defense.

grndmstr_c · 12-01-2011, 02:34 PM

I don't think teams other than the Mavs can offer TC a 5-year deal.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Caron Butler, one of the most pursued small forwards in this year’s free-agent class, privately considers the Los Angeles Clippers and Chicago Bulls as his two most preferred destinations, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Butler is most attracted to the Bulls because of the chance to play with Derrick Rose(notes) and compete for a title, but he would have to take significantly less money to play in Chicago. The Bulls have a stronger need for a shooting guard and could ultimately spend their money there. Ultimately, that leaves the Clippers with an edge over the New Jersey Nets among the suitors with the most significant cap space and a need for a starting small forward.

“He sees the Clippers with a more stable foundation of players,” one source familiar with Butler’s thinking said. “He isn’t sure about Deron Williams’(notes) future in New Jersey, and having a chance to win will be a big part of this.”

Butler played only 29 games in the Dallas Mavericks’ title run a season ago, missing the remainder with a right knee injury. At 31 years old, he’s checked out healthy again and remains a primary target for several teams looking for a small forward.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._agency_113011

mavs777 · 12-01-2011, 02:38 PM

Im sure someone has the numbers

Hypothetically speaking assume we use the amnesty on Haywood next year in offseason.

How many players do we have under guarenteed contracts? and for how much cap space?

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Im sure someone has the numbers

Hypothetically speaking assume we use the amnesty on Haywood next year in offseason.

How many players do we have under guarenteed contracts? and for how much cap space?

I posted this earlier in this thread if you missed it. I was debating on someone who said we should sign Chandler no matter the cost. Remember the salary cap is $58m close to $59m.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Ok so let's say we do that. Let's look at our team salary for next season.

Dirk $20mil
Tyson $18mil
Marion $8.6mil
Haywood $8.3mil (could get amnestied)
Brewer $3.2mil
Roddy $2.2mil
DJ $1.2mil

That's $59.3mil if we don't amnesty anybody, about $52 if we do. This is assuming we don't re-sign Butler or JJB, if so we're over the cap even if we amnesty a player. So who the hell is gonna play point guard. We could bring back Kidd at 40 years old for the minimum I guess, and bring back JET for the minimum. But it's going to end up being a very old team who aren't contenders anymore because there'll be too many holes.

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 02:45 PM

Wow, Chandler to OK City. Now the way chandler's talking that he's going to the highest bidder, if OK City gives him the biggest deal, I'm sure he'll erase the memories of OK City nixing the trade after Chandler's doctor says he can't pass the physical.

xrobx · 12-01-2011, 02:52 PM

Kind of funny how last year we were all disgusted that the MBT brought in Tyson with the dust chip, now people are saying he's worth 17 million.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think we all need to just step back and realize what the changes to the luxury tax mean. We've all gotten so used to paying the tax that we take it for granted. So much so that people actually used to lay into Mark for EVER enforcing anything resembling a budget.

Those days are gone. Yes it's two years until the significant luxury tax penalties kick in, but with Chandler we're talking about a minimum of a four year deal. And remember that there's a huge penalty for being in the Tax four out of five years, and that clock starts right now.

As I said before, if you give Chandler the pay day he clearly wants (4/5 years, 14M+), you're locked into the luxury tax for four years. You're also locked into four more years of Jason Terry and Jason Kidd, whatever you can scrape from the mini exception, the limited trade rules, and in a couple of years, no sign and trades.

And to top off all of that, you're reassembling a roster that is dependent on Dirk to carry a larger load than any other superstar in the league. At some point that formula is going to stop working, and it might be sooner rather than later.

I'm not saying that you don't sign Tyson. I'm saying you have to step back and look at the argument from both sides. You have to consider the long term repercussions. The Mavs might well have determined that this roster achieved its pinnacle and will not be able to compete at the same level for four more years. Would you really call them crazy if they did?

And if they did come to that conclusion, then doing whatever you can for a chance at another franchise player is absolutely the right move. This is a star driven league, and you either want to suck, or you want to be elite. No in between. Signing Tyson to a huge contract opens up the very real possibility that in a couple years you're a very expensive non-contender.

I don't know what the right answer is. But I do know that this is a very complex situation. It's not black and white. And I'm certainly not going to gripe about the Mavs hesitating to give Tyson a huge contract.

Very well said. I agree on all counts and this is why I'm not losing any sleep over Tyson leaving.

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Marc Stein was just on with Ben and Skin and said that DWill wouldn't want to come to Dallas with just Dirk. He'd want Tyson on the team as well. Take that for what you will...

So he'd stay in NJ with Tyson and Lopez, with the possibility of Howard. I don't know, Stein seems to undervalue Cuban's history. Dirk-DWill and a cache of cash, in Dallas get buy you some nice pieces. I'm more in the Howard stable than DWIll at this point. I think either player can be had via trade during the season. I think you have to go all in for either player now, regardless to if they plan to extend. Playing for Cuban, for Dallas, should be enough for the player to realize winning is the only thing. I tend to believe that Dallas is entering a transition phase to add a cornerstone within this 2012 FA class. It makes it easier to swallow after getting the ring.

Kante · 12-01-2011, 03:02 PM

So, this Mavs-Team is getting a new face? Chandler out, Butler/Barea too... Ouch!

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

Kind of funny how last year we were all disgusted that the MBT brought in Tyson with the dust chip, now people are saying he's worth 17 million.

Yea, we were already to trade him out in TC. The ring is nice, but too much Dampier is telling me not to offer him a championship contract. The guy suits up all year in his contract year, then the quotes his sending out, makes me kind of wonder what percentage of games he'd suit up for durinig the life of this new contract. When he's on the floor, there's no denying his talent, but his history suggests otherwise.

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

So, this Mavs-Team is getting a new face? Chandler out, Butler/Barea too... Ouch!

Yep, looks like it was a one year wonder, then again, you look at what we were getting into with the Damp Chip, we were hoping to cash in on Lebron, Melo or Bosh, either didn't fruit. Chandler had one year left, it was great to win it all, but maybe the plan after the 2010 class failed, we'd point to 2012 and post Dirk, maybe we're staying the course with that plan.

Just read that Chris Paul's agent has asked for a trade to the Knicks......now does Orlando follow suit with Utah and move the superstar for a big pay day before it has a gun to its head like Denver and now New Orleans has

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Yea, we were already to trade him out in TC. The ring is nice, but too much Dampier is telling me not to offer him a championship contract. The guy suits up all year in his contract year, then the quotes his sending out, makes me kind of wonder what percentage of games he'd suit up for durinig the life of this new contract. When he's on the floor, there's no denying his talent, but his history suggests otherwise.

If by that you mean you're concerned about his injury history, that's understandable. If you're questioning his heart or his effort on the court, I don't think that's a valid concern. I've watched the guy pretty much his whole career and I've NEVER gotten even the slightest impression that he was dogging it.