Official: Rondo to Dallas!! - Page 9 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

grndmstr_c · 12-20-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You think opposing teams will let their PG sit in the paint? If they are that crazy, then Rondo is going to get a LOT of wide-open jumpers and his FG will never be higher.

If that's the response, it's just giving the other team what they want, IMO. I am interested to see how the offensive approach evolves, though. Dirk and Tyson are both terrific screeners, Monta and Parsons are both terrific when they catch the ball in space, and Rondo is as good as anyone in the game right now anticipating when guys are going to come open and delivering the ball on time and on target, so to me, that's where you start. Let Rondo initiate the half-court set, and then if everyone acts decisively off that initial pass and Rondo's prepared to be aggressive with his dribble penetration (not necessarily looking to score) if/when the ball comes back his way, the Mavs' half-court offense is still going to be an absolute beast to defend, and will probably be better able to deal with quality defenses because there won't be a wink link in the decision making chain. And with more stops and better defensive rebounding, Dallas will be able to get more out of their fast and secondary breaks to complement their half-court attack.

G-Man · 12-20-2014, 02:20 PM

Monta sucks...he's just a chucker.

Tyson Chandler is all washed up. Plus, in New York, he was locker room cancer.

Brandon Wright was a wasted draft pick...too skinny and injury prone.

A lot of dumb things have been said about Mavs players that looked smart at the time they were stated.

I'd be very careful about dissing Rondo. A year after his surgery, he still leading the league in assists and in rebounds from his position. Advanced stats say his defense is way off, but D is a team game, and the team around him is pretty weak, so I take that with a grain of salt. This is a guy who understands competing at the highest level. Now that he is in a position to do that again, I suggest giving him some time to see if he can still do it.

It is often written that he's at his best in big games. Well, welcome to the West, where half the games will have him face to face with the best guards in the world, starting tonight with Tony Parker. I've heard a lot of pundits and commentators say he's past his prime. I do not see quotes like that from the guys he plays against. Monta Ellis did not say "I beat that guy like a drum, he's toast." He said "get him in here." I think he's in the best position to know.

LonghornDub · 12-20-2014, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Well Rondo used to be faster before the injuries. And he played in the leastern conference. He was surrounded by Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen. And that team was great defensively. They didn't need to score a ton a game because their defense was good enough.

You're kind of dodging the question, but I understand your point. Still, you are insane to complain about this deal.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-20-2014, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Monta sucks...he's just a chucker.

Tyson Chandler is all washed up. Plus, in New York, he was locker room cancer.

Brandon Wright was a wasted draft pick...too skinny and injury prone.

A lot of dumb things have been said about Mavs players that looked smart at the time they were stated.

I'd be very careful about dissing Rondo. A year after his surgery, he still leading the league in assists and in rebounds from his position. Advanced stats say his defense is way off, but D is a team game, and the team around him is pretty weak, so I take that with a grain of salt. This is a guy who understands competing at the highest level. Now that he is in a position to do that again, I suggest giving him some time to see if he can still do it.

It is often written that he's at his best in big games. Well, welcome to the West, where half the games will have him face to face with the best guards in the world, starting tonight with Tony Parker. I've heard a lot of pundits and commentators say he's past his prime. I do not see quotes like that from the guys he plays against. Monta Ellis did not say "I beat that guy like a drum, he's toast." He said "get him in here." I think he's in the best position to know.

Completely agree with your assessment about all the games being big from here on out. I looked at our opponents in the West, their schedules are just as brutal as ours. Pop has to rest his starters tonight and hope for the best. Look at the next few weeks for the Spurs. It's a buzz saw. The teams that make the best adjustments will come out on top in this tight race. Mavs made their move. Fingers crossed it will pay off.

mavsfan1000 · 12-20-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You're kind of dodging the question, but I understand your point. Still, you are insane to complain about this deal.

The deal cost us our bench. So I don't think I'm insane for complaining about this deal. Unless Rondo makes a huge difference, I think we lost in this trade. We gave up too much for Kidd as well and missed the playoffs that year. Luckily, we were able to gain back that depth eventually. Depth is underrated. It won the Spurs a championship last year.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-20-2014, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

We gave up too much for Kidd as well and missed the playoffs that year.

We did not miss the playoffs that year. We got our asses kicked by New Orleans in the first round, but we did make the playoffs.

Quote:

Luckily, we were able to gain back that depth eventually. Depth is underrated. It won the Spurs a championship last year.

Depth wasn't the reason it took us so long to get back to the finals. The Mavs were always deep. They just weren't always that good.

Crowder was a nice role player, but he rarely played, so losing him doesn't mean much of anything. And as much as I like Wright, I think you're overestimating his importance. He's pretty easily replaceable IMO, and therefor easily expendable.

grndmstr_c · 12-20-2014, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The deal cost us our bench.

Man, get out with that crap. It cost us one bench rotation player. One.

EricaLubarsky · 12-20-2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The deal cost us our bench. So I don't think I'm insane for complaining about this deal. Unless Rondo makes a huge difference, I think we lost in this trade. We gave up too much for Kidd as well and missed the playoffs that year. Luckily, we were able to gain back that depth eventually. Depth is underrated. It won the Spurs a championship last year.

It cost us our whole bench? That is a terrible deal, then. I thought it just cost us our 7th man/spark plug who didn't play well against the West and our 13th man who rarely got off the bench.

Also, comparing Rondo to Kidd? Kidd was the piece that got us our first championship of all time. If Rondo nets us a second championship in a couple of years I will be pleased as punch and won't miss Wright or Crowder at all. I remember people crying about losing Harris and that we gave up too much for a has-been when we made the Kidd trade. No one talks about that any more other than you apparently.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-20-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The deal cost us our bench. So I don't think I'm insane for complaining about this deal. Unless Rondo makes a huge difference, I think we lost in this trade. We gave up too much for Kidd as well and missed the playoffs that year. Luckily, we were able to gain back that depth eventually. Depth is underrated. It won the Spurs a championship last year.

If we gave up Harris, then I'd agree. Wright is just one very good bench player.

None of us wanted to give up Wright, but I don't think we should envision him as some irreplaceable saint. Every GM in the league would do this deal.

mavsfan1000 · 12-20-2014, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It cost us our whole bench? That is a terrible deal, then. I thought it just cost us our 7th man/spark plug who didn't play well against the West and our 13th man who rarely got off the bench.

Also, comparing Rondo to Kidd? Kidd was the piece that got us our first championship of all time. If Rondo nets us a second championship in a couple of years I will be pleased as punch and won't miss Wright or Crowder at all. I remember people crying about losing Harris and that we gave up too much for a has-been when we made the Kidd trade. No one talks about that any more other than you apparently.

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year? Yes it got forgotten as we eventually found the right pieces around Kidd. Marion, Stevenson, Barea, Chandler, and Haywood the pieces that did it for us. We had a quality backup center that year.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-20-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year? Yes it got forgotten as we eventually found the right pieces around Kidd. Marion, Stevenson, Barea, Chandler, and Haywood the pieces that did it for us. We had a quality backup center that year.

It's really simple...would you rather have a quality top 10 backup center or a quality top 10 starting pg?

Dirkadirkastan · 12-20-2014, 03:52 PM

If you're looking for a perfect deal, you're going to be disappointed.

This comes as close to "buy low, sell high" as you can realistically expect. You take this deal every time and accept the new challenges it creates over the old holes it filled. Besides, it's a lot easier to acquire several role players than one stud.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-20-2014, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year? Yes it got forgotten as we eventually found the right pieces around Kidd. Marion, Stevenson, Barea, Chandler, and Haywood the pieces that did it for us. We had a quality backup center that year.

??? What are you talking about? Depth was never the Mavs' problem, at any point.

mavsfan1000 · 12-20-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's really simple...would you rather have a quality top 10 backup center or a quality top 10 starting pg?

What I'm more worried about is who is replacing our 6th man. I would love to have Ellis come off the bench to give us a spark. He could be our 6th man. I think we are one quality backup center from winning it all.

EricaLubarsky · 12-20-2014, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year? Yes it got forgotten as we eventually found the right pieces around Kidd. Marion, Stevenson, Barea, Chandler, and Haywood the pieces that did it for us. We had a quality backup center that year.

Yes, please question my memory of Mavs stuff.

Also, new guys always take a while to get comfortable. We also needed to find the right roster once we had our core guys. Are you saying that the Kidd deal was a net negative, because we didn't immediately win a championship? Because we also needed to keep refining the roster? That is INSANE. If a piece isn't the ONLY piece, then it's a BAD piece? That's just crazy.

LonghornDub · 12-20-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The deal cost us our bench. So I don't think I'm insane for complaining about this deal. Unless Rondo makes a huge difference, I think we lost in this trade. We gave up too much for Kidd as well and missed the playoffs that year. Luckily, we were able to gain back that depth eventually. Depth is underrated. It won the Spurs a championship last year.

If the deal had actually cost the Mavs their bench, I would completely agree with you. It didn't.

mavsfan1000 · 12-20-2014, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If the deal had actually cost the Mavs their bench, I would completely agree with you. It didn't.

Our best player off the bench. And we have no quality backup center to Chandler. Chandler mentioned how important Haywood was to their success during their championship run. So I think it is huge to have a quality backup center.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-20-2014, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year? Yes it got forgotten as we eventually found the right pieces around Kidd. Marion, Stevenson, Barea, Chandler, and Haywood the pieces that did it for us. We had a quality backup center that year.

What makes you think we don't have the pieces now?

Your comments about losing the bench . . . . come on man. Devin has been a beast off the bench this year. He's been shooting the three great. Barea has had some good moments for us as well. I also have faith that the same FO that could land this starting five isn't done making moves to address our depth. I'm sorry you hate the trade so much. I'm not going to try to convince you it was good.

Complain all you want, but I'm convinced that this team would destroy our 2011 squad. The West is just that much better right now than it was in 2011. Also, the Heat had a shit bench when they went to the Finals four years in a row. I don't think our bench is shit.

mavsfan1000 · 12-20-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

What makes you think we don't have the pieces now?

Your comments about losing the bench . . . . come on man. Devin has been a beast off the bench this year. He's been shooting the three great. Barea has had some good moments for us as well. I also have faith that the same FO that could land this starting five isn't done making moves to address our depth. I'm sorry you hate the trade so much. I'm not going to try to convince you it was good.

Complain all you want, but I'm convinced that this team would destroy our 2011 squad. The West is just that much better right now than it was in 2011. Also, the Heat had a shit bench when they went to the Finals four years in a row. I don't think our bench is shit.

Well the Heat was a special case. You think our starters are as good as the Heat 2011-2014?

Bryan_Wilson · 12-20-2014, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Our best player off the bench. And we have no quality backup center to Chandler. Chandler mentioned how important Haywood was to their success during their championship run. So I think it is huge to have a quality backup center.

Comparing Wright defensively to Mahinmi or Haywood that year is silly. Which I'm assuming is what you are doing because if we lose a little bit of record breaking offense im not going to lose sleep, especially since it likely means our league worst or bottom 3 defensive rebounding or perimeter defense improves. Wright IIRC was benched in favor of Blair vs spurs because Wright is repeatedly abused by real post players and has to be near the bottom in defensive rebounding. He can block shots mainly from help defense but how many times do you need to watch a guy get abused till you realize he is fantastic and efficient as a 20min man off the bench but is a liability on defense against any team with post presence. He was our most efficient offensive player off the bench but I wouldn't say he was the best player off the bench. He had similar numbers last year offensively and got abused in the post defensively, he got abused again this year. He was going to get abused again in playoffs.

I also think you are selling our starters and bench short. Watch rondo for 10-15 games and then give an analysis of where this team is at. The team without rondo and with wright is at the bottom on defensive rebounding and perimeter defense and number one in offense efficiency while being 0-5 against top west teams. Let's let rondo throw a pass and play on a contending western conference team for a few games before judgement is passed eh? Who knows you might like seeing a few defensive stops translate into easy transition buckets.

Underdog · 12-20-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Did you forget how much we struggled with Kidd the first year?

The Mavs didn't struggle with Kidd that first year - they struggled with Avery Johnson's ego.

Underdog · 12-20-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

What I'm more worried about is who is replacing our 6th man.

Did Devin Harris get traded?

LonghornDub · 12-20-2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Our best player off the bench. And we have no quality backup center to Chandler. Chandler mentioned how important Haywood was to their success during their championship run. So I think it is huge to have a quality backup center.

I really enjoyed Wright's time here, but Devin has been their best player off the bench, and Wright was hardly a backup center. He's a 6'10" (listed some places at 6'9" but I think that's wrong) power forward, and his defense and rebounding were subpar to terrible.

The Mavs haven't really had legitimate size on their frontcourt bench all year. It's not because of this trade.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-20-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I really enjoyed Wright's time here, but Devin has been their best player off the bench, and Wright was hardly a backup center. He's a 6'10" (listed some places at 6'9" but I think that's wrong) power forward, and his defense and rebounding were subpar to terrible.

The Mavs haven't really had legitimate size on their frontcourt bench all year. It's not because of this trade.

And Wright's shortcomings are why many positive things can come from replacing him if the team gets the right backup.

I do think it puts a bit more pressure on Harris to perhaps score more off the bench, but the Mavs don't lack when it comes to offense.

grndmstr_c · 12-20-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And Wright's shortcomings are why many positive things can come from replacing him if the team gets the right backup.

I do think it puts a bit more pressure on Harris to perhaps score more off the bench, but the Mavs don't lack when it comes to offense.

High bar on the first. Better defense and rebounding shouldn't be a problem (I hope), but the constant threat of the alley-oop and the hyper-efficiency are going to be missed. And Devin will probably miss him as much as anyone. If Dallas can find a center who can give them something in the neighborhood of what JO gave GSW last year, though, I'll feel really good about things. I'm also hoping to see RJeff get a little more involved and productive with Rondo on the team. If there's one guy who stands to benefit from the addition of a top shelf true point guard, it's him.

MavsFTR · 12-20-2014, 06:42 PM

http://youtu.be/cT2M81uWZc4

Kante · 12-20-2014, 07:03 PM

mavsfan1000 with a heroic run to become the worst poster around here...

G-Man · 12-20-2014, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's really simple...would you rather have a quality top 10 backup center or a quality top 10 starting pg?

Ding! Ding! Ding!!! We have a winner!!!

dude1394 · 12-20-2014, 07:12 PM

It is amazing how much a big that can catch and finish a lob helps a penetrating guard. It will be a little tougher on devin and jjb.

NorwegianMavsFan · 12-20-2014, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

mavsfan1000 with a heroic run to become the worst poster around here...

How is mavsfan1000 becoming the worst poster? By disagreeing with you?

I love the trade, and dont mind giving up Wright to get Rondo, but its not a given that it`ll work out the way we hope.

Underdog · 12-20-2014, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorwegianMavsFan

I love the trade, and dont mind giving up Wright to get Rondo, but its not a given that it`ll work out the way we hope.

The lovely thing is that we won't have to wait too long to find out... Tipoff against San Antonio just 45 minutes away!

Kante · 12-20-2014, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorwegianMavsFan

How is mavsfan1000 becoming the worst poster? By disagreeing with you?

I love the trade, and dont mind giving up Wright to get Rondo, but its not a given that it`ll work out the way we hope.

By posting the same crap over and over.

Agree with the second part about the trade.

LonghornDub · 12-20-2014, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I'm also hoping to see RJeff get a little more involved and productive with Rondo on the team. If there's one guy who stands to benefit from the addition of a top shelf true point guard, it's him.

I think one major trickle down of the trade ist hat RJeff needs to play much, much better.

MFFL · 12-20-2014, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Well the Heat was a special case. You think our starters are as good as the Heat 2011-2014?

Why not?

Point guard. Rondo vs Chalmers. Big edge to Mavs
Shooting guard. Wade vs Ellis. Small edge to Heat
Small forward. Lebron vs Parsons. HUGE edge to Heat
Power forward. Dirk vs Haslem. Lol even now a HUGE edge to Mavs
Center. Chandler vs Bosh. Even

Dan1 · 12-21-2014, 06:50 PM

Watching Celtics x Heat...

Nelson is still a scrub.

Underdog · 12-21-2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Well...happy looks different. Thats almost Kaman/Gordon/Aminu level of sad faces..

@BallinWithBryan: Old Mavs in their Celtics debuts: B-Wright with 6p/3r in 13 minutes. Crowder with 0p/2r in 7 minutes. Nelson with 3p/3a in 20 minutes.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-21-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Well the Heat was a special case. You think our starters are as good as the Heat 2011-2014?

I think this team is better than our 2011 team. . . . . . . . . . who beat the Heat. Mark Cuban thinks this team is better too.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-21-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@BallinWithBryan: Old Mavs in their Celtics debuts: B-Wright with 6p/3r in 13 minutes. Crowder with 0p/2r in 7 minutes. Nelson with 3p/3a in 20 minutes.

So they basically combined for Rondo's line.

Underdog · 12-21-2014, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

So they basically combined for Rondo's line.

Rondo - 6 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds

Wright/Nelson/Crowder - 9 points, 4 assists, 7 rebounds

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-21-2014, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Rondo - 6 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds

Wright/Nelson/Crowder - 9 points, 4 assists, 7 rebounds

Did they combine to draw four charges?