2019 Mavs Free Agency - Page 92 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

JJP · 07-06-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Thunder got SGA, they have their PG so pretty sure they wanna dump both. But Schröder has zero value

That's right... SGA is in OKC now. So there's that.

Schroder is 15 points and 4 assists a game. He's not useless. But unless he brings some defense with him, I don't know if the Mavs will bite.

sefant77 · 07-06-2019, 05:27 PM

We have THJ to cover the Monta part....we dont need him with THJ, Curry and Brunson

Schröder is an empty stats player

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-06-2019, 05:30 PM

I'm not convinced THJ is part of the rotation this season.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-06-2019, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Wouldn't have mattered if he was going to wait on the decision anyway because another team was going to give him 15 a year. So the Mavs would have to BEAT that Lakers offer to get him. That's Wes Matthews money. No thanks.

Yeah but 3/36 with only a partial guarantee.... He likely still takes the Lakers 2/30 but it's not unheard of to take the longer contract with more guaranteed at his age. But with that last year being only a partial then yeah why the hell would he ever take that over 2/30.

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I 100% agree, however I don’t think 1 week into free agency counts as fucking around too long, especially when they already made a big move to add KP within Luka’s first year.

50 of the top 60 FAs were gone in the first 6 hours of free agency... If you have $30m to spend and you didn't get one of those guys, then you blew your chances of landing a difference-maker through free agency.

Might as well spend that cap space on assets that you can trade for "better fits" down the road, but we don't seem to be interested in that either.

turin · 07-06-2019, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

...

Is the general consensus around here that the Mavs are completely pissing away an obvious opportunity and that we on a message board understand that, but that the FO doesn’t?

This fallacious thinking is known as an "appeal to authority."

turin · 07-06-2019, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm not convinced THJ is part of the rotation this season.

He will be due to salary imo, and the team will want to "showcase" him for a trade. Additionally, coming off the bench will negatively impact his value in the eyes of other teams. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, but after watching the way Wes was handled the last several years, do you really think they are going to treat THJ differently?

DavidDaMonkey · 07-06-2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

This fallacious thinking is known as an "appeal to authority."

Cool. Is there also a term for ignoring a conversation by invoking a philosophical term that you read online and probably don’t fully understand?

turin · 07-06-2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Cool. Is there also a term for ignoring a conversation by invoking a philosophical term that you read online and probably don’t fully understand?

Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. :-P

DavidDaMonkey · 07-06-2019, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

50 of the top 60 FAs were gone in the first 6 hours of free agency... If you have $30m to spend and you didn't get one of those guys, then you blew your chances of landing a difference-maker through free agency.

Might as well spend that cap space on assets that you can trade for "better fits" down the road, but we don't seem to be interested in that either.

Signing a player (Any player! Just spend money! Dear God sign anyone available!) in the first week of free agency isn’t the only way to improve a team. I was responding to the argument that Luka will leave if we don’t build him a good team, and I would like to think he is smart enough to not decide to bolt because of what we did or didn’t do this early in a timeline, especially when we traded for KP as early as we did. The Mavs very clearly made the decision to prioritize Luka by making a big swing in his rookie year, and I think he and his agent realize that. I don’t think that neglecting to spend money right this very instant will erase that.

turin · 07-06-2019, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Signing a player (Any player! Just spend money! Dear God sign anyone available!) in the first week of free agency isn’t the only way to improve a team. I was responding to the argument that Luka will leave if we don’t build him a good team, and I would like to think he is smart enough to not decide to bolt because of what we did or didn’t do this early in a timeline, especially when we traded for KP as early as we did. The Mavs very clearly made the decision to prioritize Luka by making a big swing in his rookie year, and I think he and his agent realize that. I don’t think that neglecting to spend money right this very instant will erase that.

If we noticed the Mavs lack of impact and effectiveness after clearing ~$30m to spend in what is likely the largest FA buffet ever available, do you really think Luka and his agent might not have noticed?

DavidDaMonkey · 07-06-2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

If we noticed the Mavs lack of impact and effectiveness after clearing ~$30m to spend in what is likely the largest FA buffet ever available, do you really think Luka and his agent might not have noticed?

What you notice and what an NBA professional notices might be different things. But I’m an idiot who doesn’t understand logic, so what do I know?

I’m done with this now, btw. This isn’t fun basketball talk anymore.

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Signing a player (Any player! Just spend money! Dear God sign anyone available!) in the first week of free agency isn’t the only way to improve a team.

No, but it's the only way to utilize the $30m in cap space that we created for ourselves because it doesn't roll over... And it's not like we're advocating that we just sign ANYONE -- we're talking about Marcus Morris, who would bring more trade value than anyone else we signed this summer (aside from KP). It's not about spending money just for the sake of spending money, but to actually build up assets that we can trade later, the same way the winners of this offseason did it.

You keep pointing out how the MBT is "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it, but you seem to ignore that the other teams 29 who are also "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it have been kicking the shit out of our FO this summer... You don't have to be smarter than someone else to recognize when they're acting foolish.

sefant77 · 07-06-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

If we noticed the Mavs lack of impact and effectiveness after clearing ~$30m to spend in what is likely the largest FA buffet ever available, do you really think Luka and his agent might not have noticed?

If there is something Luka and his agent noticed, then its the fact the league became a buddy league and a franchise need his players to step up and deliver big FA signings. Just look at the past years, almost every freaking big move was the result of tampering, teaming up BETWEEN PLAYERS: So thats a lesson learned for the new Luka&KP Mavs. and Luka and his agent saw that the Mavs were ready to spend the max on an aging Kemba Walker...so really no reason for all this drama here.

The Mavs did an awesome draftnight deal and they reacted as fast as possible when they realized that they hit the jackpot. Clearing everyone out and getting KP. They signed him longterm, got nice value deals on their roleplayer and people completly freak out because they didnt get Bojan for 80m or other "starter" for 10+. Thats not "trying to outsmart", thats just about not reacting in panic with stupid signings after striking out on the bigger names.

Yeah the FO had it planned differently but at least they dont react with something stupid.Keeping the TPE etc is better than signing more roleplayer for even more money. Even if now everyone screams "dry powder".

We are in a good position for midseason trades and for the next two free agencies. If we want a big fish, Luka and KP have to go to work. On and off the floor. Not the FO. Its a players league.

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 05:58 PM

We still have more available cap space to make trades than anyone so we need to see what kind of deals Donnie can make.
If we still lack 3 legit starters after the TDL then I'll jump on board with everyone who is pissed about this off season. Donnie's strength is trading so I'm sure he'll come up with something that can please us.

In the mean time I'm hoping some of our youth will develop into starter quality players.

And I'm not convinced Seth isn't starter quality playing with Luka.

turin · 07-06-2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No, but it's the only way to utilize the $30m in cap space that we created for ourselves because it doesn't roll over... And it's not like anyone is advocating that we sign ANYONE -- we're talking about Marcus Morris, who would bring more trade value than anyone else we signed this summer (aside from KP). It's not about spending money just for the sake of spending money, but to actually build up assets that we can trade later, the same way the winners of this offseason did it.

You keep pointing out how the MBT is "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it, but you seem to ignore that the other teams 29 who are also "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it have been kicking the shit out of our FO this summer... You don't have to be smarter than someone else to recognize when they're acting foolish.

Well, since you're not a basketball professional, I don't think you're qualified to judge whether or not other FO's are kicking the Mav's FO's arse. /sarc

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 06:02 PM

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

DavidDaMonkey · 07-06-2019, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No, but it's the only way to utilize the $30m in cap space that we created for ourselves because it doesn't roll over... And it's not like anyone is advocating that we sign ANYONE -- we're talking about Marcus Morris, who would bring more trade value than anyone else we signed this summer (aside from KP). It's not about spending money just for the sake of spending money, but to actually build up assets that we can trade later, the same way the winners of this offseason did it.

You keep pointing out how the MBT is "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it, but you seem to ignore that the other teams 29 who are also "smarter" than the average fan on this board because they get paid to do it have been kicking the shit out of our FO this summer.

I would rather build a good team than “win” the summer. I’m not saying that there aren’t players I would have liked the Mavs to land, but I also understand that it’s not as simple as just wanting it more, and sometimes not as simple as being smarter than the other teams. There are parts of it that are out of the FO’s control and I don’t want to see them over react just so some bloggers can give them a good grade for the summer. My hope is that they are looking at a longer view and a bigger picture.

And I don’t think I ever said the MBT is smarter than the average fan, but I do feel pretty confident in saying that they know more about running a basketball team.

sefant77 · 07-06-2019, 06:04 PM

Just to let it sink down:

The "stupid FO" turned a probably borderline bust DSJ, #5 and two future 1st into Luka and KP without taking terrible player back. Lee big expiring is allready an asset for any trade during his season and next year the same with THJ (who may become a solid bench scorer - remember Terrys Hawks reputation)

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yeah the FO had it planned differently but at least they dont react with something stupid.Keeping the TPE etc is better than signing more roleplayer for even more money. Even if now everyone screams "dry powder".

We are in a good position for midseason trades and for the next two free agencies. If we want a big fish, Luka and KP have to go to work. On and off the floor. Not the FO. Its a players league.

Yeah, it would be wise for the FO to not make any kneejerk moves at this point and use their TPE wisely. There will be several regrets by teams after this off season and perhaps we can take advantage.

turin · 07-06-2019, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

We still have more available cap space to make trades than anyone so we need to see what kind of deals Donnie can make.
If we still lack 3 legit starters after the TDL then I'll jump on board with everyone who is pissed about this off season. Donnie's strength is trading so I'm sure he'll come up with something that can please us.

In the mean time I'm hoping some of our youth will develop into starter quality players.

And I'm not convinced Seth isn't starter quality playing with Luka.

It is what it is. I've got most of my kvetching out of my system, and all we can do now is look to the future. A big plus this year is the rather youngish age of our team. I'd rather see younger guys with room for growth play than a bunch of veteran castoffs cobbled together, especially considering the ages of Luka and KP.

Preseason can't get here fast enough for me. We are going to be a fun, if not defensively frustrating, team to watch.

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I would rather build a good team than “win” the summer. I’m not saying that there aren’t players I would have liked the Mavs to land, but I also understand that it’s not as simple as just wanting it more, and sometimes not as simple as being smarter than the other teams. There are parts of it that are out of the FO’s control and I don’t want to see them over react just so some bloggers can give them a good grade for the summer. My hope is that they are looking at a longer view and a bigger picture.

And I don’t think I ever said the MBT is smarter than the average fan, but I do feel pretty confident in saying that they know more about running a basketball team.

You can't "win" the summer when you have $30m in cap space and fail to utilize it... Smart people who get paid by NBA teams know this... Dumb people who don't get paid by NBA teams also know this... I have no idea why the Mavs FO doesn't seem to know this, but it's flabbergasting.

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

How much cap space will we have after Porzingis signs if we don't make any other moves?

turin · 07-06-2019, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

^ This ^

SMC0007 · 07-06-2019, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

This free agency showed again that it became a total buddy league since the Heatles in 2010. Players taking the easy road and often it not even matters anymore if the new team has cap space (Heat - Butler) or if the player is under contract (AD, George etc).

We saw it with Dirk, who were respected, but didnt wasnt a "buddy" enough to get a tier 1 free agent to sign here. I really hope Luka and KP realized it allready. If they want to add a third big name in 2021, THEY have to do the work. Donnie will do his job and keep the max cap flexibility, but its up to Luka and KP to deliver a big name. Or be satisfied with role player.

The FO trashing is also overreacting pure. With 75% of the big names we not even had a shot. I also dont think Vuc is signing here with the 100m offer from Orlando, a place where he lis living since almost 10 years. Kemba was 50:50, cant blame the FO. Brogdon or Bogdan? Who knows if they prefered us over the Jazz/Pacers? Beverley? He got solid money with his old team....again, who knows if we had a shot at all.

So...hand out solid roleplayer contracts, best case just until 2021 guaranteed, sign Kostas until 2021 (totally worth the 15th spot just for tampering) and tell Luka and KP that the franchise needs them to recruit...

Free agency in the past years: Your players doing recruiting is more important than anything your FO is doing...

Yea. Sucks it's a bring your friends league now.. but you have to adapt and play that game going forward. KP and Luka proving it this season will go a long way in opening eyes to potential "friends".

I dont hate the Kostas tampering angle. It's worth a shot

DavidDaMonkey · 07-06-2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

I freely admitted earlier that I wasn’t thinking of that aspect, and then there was also a conversation about how there are still ways the Mavs can still use some of that cap space/TPE as they go into the year. So I’m not sure what you are yelling about.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-06-2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yeah but 3/36 with only a partial guarantee.... He likely still takes the Lakers 2/30 but it's not unheard of to take the longer contract with more guaranteed at his age. But with that last year being only a partial then yeah why the hell would he ever take that over 2/30.

I'm sure if the Green came back to the Mavs that they might accommodate him, but it was pretty clear we weren't his choice.

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

How much cap space will we have after Porzingis signs if we don't make any other moves?

Zero. We'll be over the cap.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-06-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You can't "win" the summer when you have $30m in cap space and fail to utilize it... Smart people who get paid by NBA teams know this... Dumb people who don't get paid by NBA teams also know this... I have no idea why the Mavs FO doesn't seem to know this, but it's flabbergasting.

They were just caught asleep at the wheel. Wish it was more than that...but that was it. It's proof on June 30th when HOURS after FA had started that we were interested in Green, then the failed Miami trade...then.....

It's unbelievable but true.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-06-2019, 06:18 PM

Don't get your hopes up on the TPE btw. The best case scenario is someone sends us their garbage and we get a pick with it. Most teams let their TPE expire because they usually can't find a use for it so don't hold your breath for a 1st. Also remember next year's free agency is dog shit so I doubt teams will be so desperate that they give us picks so they can chase Kyle Lowry and Gallinari. So the fact that we are clinging to the hope we use that on something really says it all. If we don't use the TPE by Feb then we are an over the cap team who added Seth Curry and a 3rd string center in the deepest free agency ever and had 30m to spend in it.

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

Am I understanding this correctly?
We need to make a trade before Portzingis signs his contract if we want to take full advantage of the TPE or we will lose it.

If that is the case, do you know how much cap space we'll have (if any) for trades after Portzingis signs?

Underdog · 07-06-2019, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I freely admitted earlier that I wasn’t thinking of that aspect, and then there was also a conversation about how there are still ways the Mavs can still use some of that cap space/TPE as they go into the year. So I’m not sure what you are yelling about.

Someone else posted the same thing right after you, and several people posted it before you... And, like, everyone n Twitter seems to be getting this wrong so I should really be yelling at them... I just posted it big & bold so EVERYONE can see it and adjust their arguments accordingly, since it's a huge sticking point in how people feel about this offseason.

hayth.james.g · 07-06-2019, 06:22 PM

Big picture, we will be fine. Primary goal stays the same. Develop and build around your two superstars. We have two. We are okay.

In the immediate, someone needs to be held accountable. If it’s Cuban slapping his own wrist, acknowledging the terribleness of their process, then so be it. But you can’t continue to attack free agency with this level of ineptitude.

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm sure if the Green came back to the Mavs that they might accommodate him, but it was pretty clear we weren't his choice.

We need to stop waiting on things to happen in FA. That seemed to bite us several times in the past as we sat and waited for guys like DAJ, DWill, DH and now D Green and came up empty.
I guess we need to stay away from FAs that have first names that start with D

But seriously we need to sign them right away and stop waiting on a decision for a week.

Zeus · 07-06-2019, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I 100% agree, however I don’t think 1 week into free agency counts as fucking around too long, especially when they already made a big move to add KP within Luka’s first year.

I think this is a false dichotomy fallacy. You can sign KP and still F around too long to build a viable contender in the Luka rookie contract window. I have heard a lot of FO defenders giving the Mavs a pass due to the KP signing. Need to have a Bayesian analysis approach and reevaluate the FO success given the new set a facts - they entered free agency with the opportunity to add some quality pieces and likely come out with replacement level starters.

SMC0007 · 07-06-2019, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

We may only have a few seasons. If we fail to materially improve this team over the next off season or two what makes you think Luka would re-sign with the Mavs? He could go to LA and join AD post LeBron retirement for instance.

Because not everyone has an entitled bitch mindset. Luka has been here 1 season and it's silly to try and assume that he is closer to a Lebron type than Dirk.

rimrocker · 07-06-2019, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Someone else posted the same thing right after you, and several people posted it before you... And, like, everyone n Twitter seems to be getting this wrong so I should really be yelling at them... I just posted it big & bold so EVERYONE can see it and adjust their arguments accordingly, since it's a huge sticking point in how people feel about this offseason.

We can assume Donnie is scrambling to make a trade as we speak.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2019, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

The desire to spend money on players we don’t want just because we have it makes me wonder how broke some of y’all are...

You are living in a outdated NBA. This type of stuff is why thisnfront office keeps getting away with ineptitude.

sefant77 · 07-06-2019, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

Well....technically if we dont use it, it disappears after signing all our guys, thats right, but....

...it also re-appears next summer because we are sitting right now around 95m for 20-21 and the cap is going to be 116m.

Spending now the remaining 22m or most of it on a two year deal and we wont have cap space next summer without dumping THJ etc. Or trying to get a guy on a one year deal so you can still have cap in 2020.

So thats why the FO should think if they really think one of the guys now is worth the money or if they prefer a shot at someone in the (thin) 2020 class. Hell, maybe Otto Porter is opting out...

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2019, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Since many of you still do not seem to be getting this...

OUR CAP SPACE DOES NOT ROLL OVER INTO THE REGULAR SEASON -- IT DISAPPEARS AS SOON AS PORZINGIS SIGNS HIS CONTRACT. IF YOU DO NOT USE IT NOW, THEN YOU LOSE IT.

They don’t seem to care. They think it’s like rollover minutes.