2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 93 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Zeus · 08-16-2021, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Agree. This should be a no-brainer. A trade that gives us a younger, better asset.

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Yep. Can't fall in love with our own mediocre talent. I would take incremental improvement by shedding current older assets in favor of younger with more upside.

SMC0007 · 08-16-2021, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I'm not sure the additional offense from Markannen would be worth the sacrifice in defense from losing Maxi.

I was very disappointed in how both Maxi and Brunson disappeared in game 7. It is possible that they don't suck, but just that they never had the experience of playing a game 7 against one of the NBA's defenses. It is possible that they will grow from the experience and be better next time. For a while last season, Maxi was hitting threes with the best of them, but he was never the same after Covid.

Now if we could get them to take Powell, that's a no brainer.

It was more than just game 7 for Maxi. It was the last 4 games. In about 120 mins He had a total of 4 points and the same amount of fouls as he did rebounds. 1/9 on 3s too. He's not a defensive stud. He's versatile defensively but nothing we can't live without.

BPo001 · 08-16-2021, 11:02 PM

I like Maxi, but if Marrkanen is available for him I think I’d make the move. He makes us younger, and offensively he’s an upgrade. I’m ready for a roster shakeup.

Dallas41 · 08-16-2021, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Maxi was awful defensively in the playoffs, so I'm not sure that tag still holds. He is a 7 ppg player that goes games without scoring a single point.

But the bigger and most obvious thing is having another tradable asset. Or if Lauri works out and KP doesn't come back to form, then you are in a much better position to trade KP.

Maxi has really vanished each of the last two post seasons.

His shooting went to crap and defensively the Clippers made him look below average.

In the 13 games he played the Clippers he's probably scored less than 10 points in over half the games.

Didn't help on the boards either.

EricaLubarsky · 08-17-2021, 12:38 AM

Josh Hart extended.

Looking like Pelicans out of the Markannen market

EricaLubarsky · 08-17-2021, 12:38 AM

Josh Hart extended.

Looking like Pelicans out of the Markannen market

saclare · 08-17-2021, 08:47 AM

As much as I like Maxi, his age makes him expendable, especially when talking about adding a player with Markannen's upside and age. Like others have said, at worst he could be a solid trade chip as his floor is fairly set. We would miss Maxi over the course of the season, but he's replaceable due to his playoff performances.

EricaLubarsky · 08-17-2021, 09:52 AM

Rebounding rate
64th among PFs - Markkannen (9.5)
73rd among PFs - Kleber (8.7)

PER
33rd among PFs - Markkannen
73rd among PFs - Kleber

Lauri isn't going to make our rebounding much better. Both guys are pretty subpar. Lauri has shouldered a bigger offensive burden and scores almost on par with a starter. He's not top-30 (as measured by PER), but he's closer than most of our guys.

EricaLubarsky · 08-17-2021, 09:52 AM

Rebounding rate
64th among PFs - Markkannen (9.5)
73rd among PFs - Kleber (8.7)

PER
33rd among PFs - Markkannen
73rd among PFs - Kleber

Lauri isn't going to make our rebounding much better. Both guys are pretty subpar. Lauri has shouldered a bigger offensive burden and scores almost on par with a starter. He's not top-30 (as measured by PER), but he's closer than most of our guys.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-17-2021, 10:07 AM

48/40/82 is pretty much all I care about with regards to Lauri. Shooting gets you far in the NBA.

BPo001 · 08-17-2021, 10:56 AM

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Memphis Grizzlies are trading Patrick Beverley to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Jarrett Culver and Juancho Hernangomez, sources tell ESPN. –

Also looks like Dallas vs Utah on Christmas!

BPo001 · 08-17-2021, 10:57 AM

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Memphis Grizzlies are trading Patrick Beverley to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Jarrett Culver and Juancho Hernangomez, sources tell ESPN. –

Also looks like Dallas vs Utah on Christmas!

Zeus · 08-17-2021, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Memphis Grizzlies are trading Patrick Beverley to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Jarrett Culver and Juancho Hernangomez, sources tell ESPN. –

Also looks like Dallas vs Utah on Christmas!

What if in an ironic twist, JKidd gets mad at the team and doesn't let them play on Christmas day.

EricaLubarsky · 08-18-2021, 12:51 PM

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/8...auri-markkanen

I think they actually make a good point.

KP and Lauri are pretty similar in a lot of respects. Kleber is slightly better at defense, but otherwise they are all pretty similar in their one-dimensionality. I can see people who are just saying, "I don't care if they are better. Just trade player A for player B who is a lateral move"

We're just not fixing defense and rebounding by signing a guy who can't defend or rebound.

Three point shooting
KP - 37.6%
Kleber - 41.0%
Markannen - 40.2%

Three point shooting off the assist
KP - 38.2%
Kleber - 42.1%
Markannen - 40.5%

eFG%
KP - 54.7%
Kleber - 58%
Markannen - 59.4%

Rebounding rate
KP - 13.4 (47th among centers)
Kleber - 8.7 (73rd among PFs)
Markannen - 9.5 (64th among PFs)

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-18-2021, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/8...auri-markkanen

I think they actually make a good point.

KP and Lauri are pretty similar in a lot of respects. Kleber is slightly better at defense, but otherwise they are all pretty similar in their one-dimensionality. I can see people who are just saying, "I don't care if they are better. Just trade player A for player B who is a lateral move"

We're just not fixing defense and rebounding by signing a guy who can't defend or rebound.

Three point shooting
KP - 37.6%
Kleber - 41.0%
Markannen - 40.2%

Three point shooting off the assist
KP - 38.2%
Kleber - 42.1%
Markannen - 40.5%

eFG%
KP - 54.7%
Kleber - 58%
Markannen - 59.4%

Rebounding rate
KP - 13.4 (47th among centers)
Kleber - 8.7 (73rd among PFs)
Markannen - 9.5 (64th among PFs)

14 ppg is much bigger difference than 7 ppg though. And with Luka, I think that will improve considerably. I agree about defense and rebounding, but we can't afford to keep having a guy that can potentially not score a single point in a game play such a pivotal role. We need better talent and more assets. Right now we have diddly doo for assets to seriously upgrade the team.

tap2390 · 08-18-2021, 01:31 PM

In a vacuum, trading Kleber for Lauri makes a lot of sense. When considering chemistry and continued growth as a team I'm not so sure. I think at this point you give this group one chance to move forward. If they flop in the playoffs again you start making major changes this offseason (basically, blow it up).

EricaLubarsky · 08-18-2021, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

In a vacuum, trading Kleber for Lauri makes a lot of sense. When considering chemistry and continued growth as a team I'm not so sure. I think at this point you give this group one chance to move forward. If they flop in the playoffs again you start making major changes this offseason (basically, blow it up).

Latest rumor is Chicago wants Kleber + FRP in 2025

I think the most I'd do is Kleber and a second? Kleber and WCS?

turin · 08-18-2021, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Latest rumor is Chicago wants Kleber + FRP in 2025

I think the most I'd do is Kleber and a second? Kleber and WCS?

Klleber and a 2nd max. WCS may look a whole lot better this season imo.

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mac222b · 08-18-2021, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Latest rumor is Chicago wants Kleber + FRP in 2025

I think the most I'd do is Kleber and a second? Kleber and WCS?

Hah! We are saving our picks to trade for a star (I hope) not Lauri freaking Markannnen.

Dallas41 · 08-18-2021, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Klleber and a 2nd max. WCS may look a whole lot better this season imo.

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Yeah

I think WCS will get more consistent minutes with Kidd.

Kidd has a defensive mentality and without question WCS is our best defensive big.

It wouldn't shock me if he's avg around 16-18 MPG with Kidd on board.

I believe he can play next to both KP or Lauri (If traded here).

I'd also trade Kleber in a heartbeat for Lauri (Created a thread doing the season about him and how the Mavs should look to pick him up) glad they are interested in him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-18-2021, 06:55 PM

Not really sure why we would care about a late first round pick in 2025. I feel if you heavily protect it like say top 15, then it's still a deal I do.

NeedlesKane · 08-18-2021, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not really sure why we would care about a late first round pick in 2025. I feel if you heavily protect it like say top 15, then it's still a deal I do.

I doubt we'd have a top 15 pick. How about make it more attractive and just top 5 protect it? Only way we have a pick like that is if Luka is injured for a season. *knocks on wood*

Regardless, I'd trade a 2025 pick and Maxi Kleber, a player I like, for Markkanen.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-18-2021, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

I doubt we'd have a top 15 pick. How about make it more attractive and just top 5 protect it? Only way we have a pick like that is if Luka is injured for a season. *knocks on wood*

Regardless, I'd trade a 2025 pick and Maxi Kleber, a player I like, for Markkanen.

Well and again, it's about assets. Is a 2025 pick a better asset than Markkanen at 11 million a year? Because the rumors I'm seeing is that he would go for something like that. I don't think there is any way he is getting 15+ at this point.

turin · 08-19-2021, 10:16 AM

I'd definitely pull the trigger on this deal. One thing that rarely gets mentioned is improvement offensively by playing with Luka. Besides, Kleber is 30. We've already seen his ceiling imo, and except for a stretch a couple of years ago where he was a savage blocking machine, he has been unexceptional, but most fans have not recalibrated their expectations for him. They still remember him as the blocking sensation from Germany who came out of nowhere. Great story, not a great building block. LM is 6 years younger and has yet to hit his peak. I'd look forward to see what he can do playing with Luka.

tap2390 · 08-19-2021, 10:53 AM

The main concern with trading away Kleber is that he can play alongside KP or a center at the 4 without worrying too much about his perimeter defense. I don't think you can say the same for Lauri. Lauri is obviously the better asset, especially on a friendly contract, but that doesn't mean he's the better fit.

BPo001 · 08-19-2021, 10:56 AM

Shams Charania: Charlotte Hornets guard Terry Rozier has agreed to a four-year, $97 million max contract extension, his agent Aaron Turner of @VerusTeam told @TheAthletic @Stadium. The guaranteed deal takes Rozier through the 2025-26 season. –

BPo001 · 08-19-2021, 10:56 AM

.

EricaLubarsky · 08-19-2021, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Shams Charania: Charlotte Hornets guard Terry Rozier has agreed to a four-year, $97 million max contract extension, his agent Aaron Turner of @VerusTeam told @TheAthletic @Stadium. The guaranteed deal takes Rozier through the 2025-26 season. –

Money is drying up quick.

If Lauri refuses to return to Chicago on the one-year, Bulls are going to be squeezed to find a better offer than our TPE and sweeteners.

purplefrog · 08-19-2021, 11:24 AM

I have little doubt that LM will be a more consistent contributor on offense than Maxi. Very little doubt.

I have very little doubt that, in peak form, Maxi is much better defender than LM.

The knee jerk reaction to this equation might be to choose defense over offense because the Mavs need all the help they can get on defense.

However, as others have mentioned, Maxi has been solid, but not great on defense in the past year or so. Some of this is undoubtedly due to recent injury history.

The question then becomes do you gamble on Maxi returning to his peak performance on defense when the alternative is a 24 year old former top 10 pick sharpshooter that is also an adequate rebounder.

I would hope that before making this trade, the Mavs would assess Maxi's trade value. Is LM the best you can get? If the answer is "yes" or even "probably" then you pull the trigger. The draft pick is inconsequential in my opinion. Mavs should be in a "win now" mode. A draft pick in 2025 should not be an obstacle to making a deal that brings in an asset with a reasonable salary for multiple years. MBT needs to play chess and not checkers when faced with opportunities like this. LM may seem like a questionable fit right now, but down the line his youth and skills will prove to be valuable because he will become an asset that can be part of a trade down the line or an important part of the Mavs future. in my opinion, you can not conclude the same for Maxi.

Melonhead · 08-19-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Klleber and a 2nd max. WCS may look a whole lot better this season imo.

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Im low key expecting WCS to break out and be a contributor this year. Thats assuming Kidd isnt planning on running the Rick offense

EDIT: after reading other responses, I agree a 2025 first rounder isnt a big deal to lose. I would top 10 protect it though

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-19-2021, 12:41 PM

I understand wanting defense and rebounding, and there is no doubt that Lauri doesn't do those well.

But we need talent upgrades and assets more than anything right now. There is no defense and rebounding available right now, and I think our 2594 centers can hold down the fort there. As some have mentioned, I think WCS will do well under Kidd.

I think a good example is to go back to the early 2000s when Cuban had an open pocketbook. We put all kinds of offensive mismatches together, but they were always used as future assets. I still say that a successful Lauri helps us be able to move KP later on. If KP gets hurt or sucks again, then we're in real trouble this season without such a move.

The key, of course, is Cuban's willingness to spend. Good thing is that Lauri has no leverage right now to demand high dollar value. And another year on Chicago likely isn't going to increase his value.

EricaLubarsky · 08-19-2021, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

The main concern with trading away Kleber is that he can play alongside KP or a center at the 4 without worrying too much about his perimeter defense. I don't think you can say the same for Lauri. Lauri is obviously the better asset, especially on a friendly contract, but that doesn't mean he's the better fit.

That's my biggest concern. Mavs still have a HUGE hole at PF. I know KP wants to play PF, but we still have a massive need for a rebounder/defender of forwards.

Kleber is the only guy we have whose best position is PF other than KP and I don't see KP and Markannen being good unless we are going full-on Dirk/LaFrentz shoot-them-out-of-the-gym and I don't see Kidd liking that.

DFS played a lot of PF, but the stats say it's not a great position for him.
Bullock is the same. 6'7" dude who can play both forward positions, but is worst at PF.
Powell is 6'10" and CAN play PF, but again, it's his worst position statistically.

Lauri's best position is center. Some other centers the Mavs already have:

KP, Powell, Boban, WCS, M. Brown

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-19-2021, 01:52 PM

I mean, is there any reason KP can't get back to playing defense again? If he does that, then I don't see a huge issue playing Lauri with him. You can mix lineups up with substitutions.

Plus, you can't tell me it's a big issue when we constantly started Dwight freakin' Powell next to KP. If you can get by doing that, then I see little issue with Lauri.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-19-2021, 01:52 PM

.

turin · 08-19-2021, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I understand wanting defense and rebounding, and there is no doubt that Lauri doesn't do those well.

But we need talent upgrades and assets more than anything right now. There is no defense and rebounding available right now, and I think our 2594 centers can hold down the fort there. As some have mentioned, I think WCS will do well under Kidd.

I think a good example is to go back to the early 2000s when Cuban had an open pocketbook. We put all kinds of offensive mismatches together, but they were always used as future assets. I still say that a successful Lauri helps us be able to move KP later on. If KP gets hurt or sucks again, then we're in real trouble this season without such a move.

The key, of course, is Cuban's willingness to spend. Good thing is that Lauri has no leverage right now to demand high dollar value. And another year on Chicago likely isn't going to increase his value.

Agree 100%

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turin · 08-19-2021, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mean, is there any reason KP can't get back to playing defense again? If he does that, then I don't see a huge issue playing Lauri with him. You can mix lineups up with substitutions.

Plus, you can't tell me it's a big issue when we constantly started Dwight freakin' Powell next to KP. If you can get by doing that, then I see little issue with Lauri.

Agree, especially on the Powell assessment. LOL

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rimrocker · 08-20-2021, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That's my biggest concern. Mavs still have a HUGE hole at PF. I know KP wants to play PF, but we still have a massive need for a rebounder/defender of forwards.

Kleber is the only guy we have whose best position is PF other than KP and I don't see KP and Markannen being good unless we are going full-on Dirk/LaFrentz shoot-them-out-of-the-gym and I don't see Kidd liking that.

DFS played a lot of PF, but the stats say it's not a great position for him.
Bullock is the same. 6'7" dude who can play both forward positions, but is worst at PF.
Powell is 6'10" and CAN play PF, but again, it's his worst position statistically.

Lauri's best position is center. Some other centers the Mavs already have:

KP, Powell, Boban, WCS, M. Brown

I'm wondering about Omoruyi and if there is any chance he can move up the roster ladder.
I've always thought Draymond Green is the perfect type of PF to play next to KP and Omoruyi seems to somewhat be a poor man's DG or Brandon Bass.
However, I don't know anything about Omoruyi's defense though.

BPo001 · 08-20-2021, 08:16 AM

New Mavericks coach Jason Kidd augmented his coaching staff on Thursday when, according to sources, the franchise reached a contract agreement with Kristi Toliver.

EricaLubarsky · 08-20-2021, 08:59 AM

Mavs sign Onu.

Expected to be a camp/gleague contract

dirt_dobber · 08-20-2021, 02:23 PM

Mavs schedule release...
Dallas is scheduled to play 26 nationally televised games, including 11 on ESPN, seven on TNT, six on NBA TV and two on ABC.
(Last season Mavs were scheduled for 14 ESPN, 10 TNT and 5 ABC games)
Mavs longest homestand of the season will be a six-game, 11-day stretch at the beginning of February 2-12.
Mavs have three 5-game road trips (12/25-1/2; 2/15-3/1; 3/11-3/19), with the second trip sandwiched around All-Star Weekend (2/18-2/20).
Mavs also have two four-game trips (11/17-11/23; 3/30-4/6).