Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Just to be clear, I've made the comment that he'd start on the team as currently constructed, and I'll stand by that. My contention, though, is only that the Mavs' SG woes would be lessened by acquiring him, not that they'd be solved.

Incidentally, his personal defensive statistics (opponents' PER and efg%) look just fine at the SG position, and his overall defensive net +/- is only -1.2, which is hardly troubling when you're playing behind Battier/Artest.

I guess I missed that, but if you did say that, I've got to disagree with you there. Wright is a better starting option than Wafer, as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to have him off the bench, though.

[RoddyB#3]

Wanted to throw this one out and see what you guys think:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=qotvb5

I could see this move working out for all three teams involved.

Mavs get the starting SG and backup PF we need.

Jazz get the money they need to bring back Milsap. Sloan likes tough defensive minded players and might even like a player like George.

Bulls get the dominant big man they've been wanting. They were hoping to be part of the Boozer sweepstakes if he opted out.

This move is smart business wise for all three as the players involved are reasonably priced and no long term contracts.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by badfish22

After reading this, what do you think about this trade.

YEAH

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by badfish22

After reading this, what do you think about this trade.

Can't see the trade happening at all. We get Caron for Boozer?

Why would Washington want Jamison and Boozer....makes no sense.


I don't have a problem with getting Boozer. I just don't think Washington would then send us Butler for him.

[Don Filipe]

Originally Posted by foglemann

Welcome Over!!!

Any insight on Gortat would be great. Like how he was before he got in the NBA and some background info.


Whatever happened to Magic Lampe??? I wanted the mavs to take him in that Josh Howard draft, boy was I wrong...

Thank you!

I'm from Poland but i am living in Germany for a long long time already thus i'm reading you guys' posts for years already but rarely writing anything myself.
Well Gortat used to play for Cologne in the german basketball league before finally going to the Magic. They won the championship in '06 and Gortat was a very important part of this team. However, he was lucky to leave the team on time in '07 because they had some financial problems in the following season and are currently still struggling.
He was an athletic player back then already so you could make an argument for him playing in the NBA one day. I, personally, couldn't envision him to be as good as he bacame, though. He was lacking the proper weight and the post moves. On the other hand, the fast and powerful game in the NBA would suit him better than slow european set play.
From the interviews i have read i got him to know as a hard worker putting everything aside which was in his way chasing his dream of playing in the NBA.
When coming to the US he really worked hard on his fitness to be ready for the more physical play and i think practice with Howard helped him a lot, too.

I think he is for real, he seems to me like one of those guys who is never fully satisfied with what he achieved and keeps on working on his game whenever he can.

Lampe, on the other hand, was a big bust in the NBA for real. He grew up in Sweden i think and when coming to New York he became one of those white gangsta guys as far as his style goes. Because he didn't gel well with the other national players growing up in Sweden and not attending the polish youth preperations he had some problems in the national team as well. After his NBA experiment he hired with a good russian team and i had the chance to see him play live one day. I was quite impressed with his length and skillset although he is really lacking the athleticism for the NBA so i can imagine why it did not work out.
I read he found to himself somewhat.

The polish team wasn't that good because those two (Lampe & Gortat) weren't participating in the tournaments in the last years. Lampe probably because of problems with other players and the coach and Gortat because he wanted to be well prepared for NBA. Now that they are supposed to be back this is gonna be a good frontcourt (the SF is a decent one as well and the backups are good, too). Similar to the german national team they have some problems at the guard positions, though.

I know this is off topic a lot but since i have been asked in this thread i wanted to answer here as well. I apologize for that.

Concerning this conversation here, i like the idea of the three way trade with Utah and Washington a lot. I was not convinced with the ideas of adding a player like Redd and Hedu because their defense wouldn't necessarily help us. We have a decent shotblocker with Gortat now (hopefully), still we shouldn't put only defensive scrubs out there.
I also believe it would be better to keep Damp for up to one more year. Not as an insurance policy for Gortat and Hollins but because of the value of his contract.
Dallas will quite certainly not be under the cap next year but you can add quite a big contract by trading Damp's unguarenteed. So you'd have a chance to add a young star by giving away Damp and some draft picks and maybe Hollins, Green or Beau if they are to be kept and develop well.
Because of that i think you should use the regular season to develop those young guys unless it becomes hard to get into the playoffs.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Don Filipe

Thank you!

I'm from Poland but i am living in Germany for a long long time already thus i'm reading you guys' posts for years already but rarely writing anything myself.
Well Gortat used to play for Cologne in the german basketball league before finally going to the Magic. They won the championship in '06 and Gortat was a very important part of this team. However, he was lucky to leave the team on time in '07 because they had some financial problems in the following season and are currently still struggling.
He was an athletic player back then already so you could make an argument for him playing in the NBA one day. I, personally, couldn't envision him to be as good as he bacame, though. He was lacking the proper weight and the post moves. On the other hand, the fast and powerful game in the NBA would suit him better than slow european set play.
From the interviews i have read i got him to know as a hard worker putting everything aside which was in his way chasing his dream of playing in the NBA.
When coming to the US he really worked hard on his fitness to be ready for the more physical play and i think practice with Howard helped him a lot, too.

I think he is for real, he seems to me like one of those guys who is never fully satisfied with what he achieved and keeps on working on his game whenever he can.

Lampe, on the other hand, was a big bust in the NBA for real. He grew up in Sweden i think and when coming to New York he became one of those white gangsta guys as far as his style goes. Because he didn't gel well with the other national players growing up in Sweden and not attending the polish youth preperations he had some problems in the national team as well. After his NBA experiment he hired with a good russian team and i had the chance to see him play live one day. I was quite impressed with his length and skillset although he is really lacking the athleticism for the NBA so i can imagine why it did not work out.
I read he found to himself somewhat.

The polish team wasn't that good because those two (Lampe & Gortat) weren't participating in the tournaments in the last years. Lampe probably because of problems with other players and the coach and Gortat because he wanted to be well prepared for NBA. Now that they are supposed to be back this is gonna be a good frontcourt (the SF is a decent one as well and the backups are good, too). Similar to the german national team they have some problems at the guard positions, though.

I know this is off topic a lot but since i have been asked in this thread i wanted to answer here as well. I apologize for that.

Concerning this conversation here, i like the idea of the three way trade with Utah and Washington a lot. I was not convinced with the ideas of adding a player like Redd and Hedu because their defense wouldn't necessarily help us. We have a decent shotblocker with Gortat now (hopefully), still we shouldn't put only defensive scrubs out there.
I also believe it would be better to keep Damp for up to one more year. Not as an insurance policy for Gortat and Hollins but because of the value of his contract.
Dallas will quite certainly not be under the cap next year but you can add quite a big contract by trading Damp's unguarenteed. So you'd have a chance to add a young star by giving away Damp and some draft picks and maybe Hollins, Green or Beau if they are to be kept and develop well.
Because of that i think you should use the regular season to develop those young guys unless it becomes hard to get into the playoffs.

Thanks for your insight! It is very well appreciated.

I am curious how the Polish view Turkoglu?

[Don Filipe]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Thanks for your insight! It is very well appreciated.

I am curious how the Polish view Turkoglu?

Hahah, i think i am more socialized in Germany so it's hard to say. Personally, i didn't like him just because of the fact because they (the turkish team) kicked out Germany in '01. I learned to like him somehow, though. He developed into a very good player and i think he would do best playing point forward which he has done a lot in the last season. You could pair him with very athletic guards who don't even need to have a feeling for the game so much. I think Don Nelson should have tried to acquire him.
The Mavericks don't need this kind of player imho that much assumed they can keep Kidd. Hedo isn't athletic very much to complement Kidd nor is he an outstanding defender on his position. So i'd say it would have been a mistake to lose the Stack chip for him just to get a talented player who doesn't fix the team needs. If Donnie will get nothing in return for Stack in the end then it's a whole different story. You still could keep Stack as a normal expiring till the deadline, though.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Don Filipe

Hahah, i think i am more socialized in Germany so it's hard to say. Personally, i didn't like him just because of the fact because they (the turkish team) kicked out Germany in '01. I learned to like him somehow, though. He developed into a very good player and i think he would do best playing point forward which he has done a lot in the last season. You could pair him with very athletic guards who don't even need to have a feeling for the game so much. I think Don Nelson should have tried to acquire him.
The Mavericks don't need this kind of player imho that much assumed they can keep Kidd. Hedo isn't athletic very much to complement Kidd nor is he an outstanding defender on his position. So i'd say it would have been a mistake to lose the Stack chip for him just to get a talented player who doesn't fix the team needs. If Donnie will get nothing in return for Stack in the end then it's a whole different story. You still could keep Stack as a normal expiring till the deadline, though.

You seem to like him and also not like him.

I understand what you are saying, that he needs to be in the right position.

[Don Filipe]

Yeah, now that i got some distance i'd say that i like him. In the right position, as you say, he can help you a lot. He's a good player for sure and it would probably not hurt any team to have such a player.
As far as the Mavs are concerned, there are other needs, though.

edit: I don't know if it's been mentioned but i believe Hedo was Gortat's best friend on last year's Magic team and helped him a lot to get accustomed - for whatever it's worth.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Don Filipe

Yeah, now that i got some distance i'd say that i like him. In the right position, as you say, he can help you a lot. He's a good player for sure and it would probably not hurt any team to have such a player.
As far as the Mavs are concerned, there are other needs, though.

edit: I don't know if it's been mentioned but i believe Hedo was Gortat's best friend on last year's Magic team and helped him a lot to get accustomed - for whatever it's worth.

Dirk should be a a good friend for Gortat?

[sike]

great to see someone's opinions who actually knows about Gortat...

[Don Filipe]

They can talk german probably so that should help. I just don't know if Dirk is as much into cars and video games as Gortat is
Plus, we all don't know if Dirk got his head straight already after what happened to him in the past few months personally.
Leavin that aside i think they would come along well with each other, yeah.

Let's hope Orlando doesn't match the contract in the end...

[badfish22]

I love hearing that Gortat is a really hard worker. We know how much of a gym rat Dirk is so maybe they work out together and really push each other like Nash used to.

And to dalmations I was thinking that Jamison would play SF, or maybe Boozer would play Center. I know its kinda unrealistic but i was just throwing out the idea of using Boozer in a three way to get us a star SG/SF. Utah wants to make room to sign millsap, so it makes sense.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I guess I missed that, but if you did say that, I've got to disagree with you there. Wright is a better starting option than Wafer, as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to have him off the bench, though.

Wafer: 17.9 pp36, 54.1% ts%, 14.7 PER, -1.2 defensive net +/-
Wright: 11 pp36, 50.1% ts%, 8.6 PER, -4.5 defensive net +/-

Neither is impressive in the rebounding or passing department, but in all of the above Wafer's clearly got the better stats. I'm struggling to see any reason why Wright should be preferred over Wafer outside of the fact that Wright was on the team last season and seemed to be solid from a chemistry standpoint.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by badfish22

After reading this, what do you think about this trade.

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Another stretch would be trying to find a way to get Utah to help us out by helping them out with the chip. They're clearly stuck right now with Boozer and they would much rather have Millsap. They would probably want some kind of wing player in return ideally, but another thing would be to get cap relief...I think that latter would ultimately take precedence.

We try to create a 3-way where we offer them the chip and find a team that wants Boozer who has a SG/SF to offer...Detroit, Charlotte, Orlando...?

Boozer to one of those teams
The Chip and fodder to Utah
the SG/SF to Dallas

He took my idea!!!! I must be on to something!

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He took my idea!!!! I must be on to something!

Using Boozer to our advantage looks like a route we should definitely take. It just makes too much sense

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by Don Filipe

They can talk german probably so that should help.

People from Poland speak Polish...

[BGMaverick9]

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_th...ndon-bass.html

They feel he is a Full MLE guy, that and the chip...?

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_th...ndon-bass.html

They feel he is a Full MLE guy, that and the chip...?

I wonder what their interest would be in Boozer?

[mac222b]

BYC stuff confuses the hell out of me- is there any way to pull off Bass for Felton or some variation thereof?

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by mac222b

BYC stuff confuses the hell out of me- is there any way to pull off Bass for Felton or some variation thereof?

It confuses me too. But since I've been hearing people talk of such a deal, it must be possible. But I'd perfer something like Diaw or Bell than Felton, just because Diaw would be a solid back up to Dirk, and Bell is a great defender and would be a nce back up to Josh or our SG we should get. I doubt we could get both. Maybe? No clue.

[mac222b]

Felton gets paid, they get Bass and it frees up $ to sign A.I.
everyone wins

[RoddyB#3]

This article just pushes my idea for a deal with the Jazz including Chicago:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...60352/20090705

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=qotvb5

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

It confuses me too. But since I've been hearing people talk of such a deal, it must be possible. But I'd perfer something like Diaw or Bell than Felton, just because Diaw would be a solid back up to Dirk, and Bell is a great defender and would be a nce back up to Josh or our SG we should get. I doubt we could get both. Maybe? No clue.

I like all of those guys as players and adding any of them makes us a better team. I like a quick guy like Felton next to Kidd. Bell would be great too but he seems like a Larry Brown favorite. Diaw would depend on if you think he could defend the 3 spot for stretches. Otherwise he's a 10million dollar backup.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by mac222b

BYC stuff confuses the hell out of me- is there any way to pull off Bass for Felton or some variation thereof?

Yes, if there's enough other salary built in.

Larry Coon's faq, over at realgm, explains BYC. In essence if a player (Bass) gets a big raise, when you trade him is out-going (relative to Dallas) value for salary matching is less than his incoming value (relative to the team receiving him).

[mac222b]

I think Diaw is versatile enough to do it. He also would get us a guy who can score from 10 feet in. He has some nice turn and face moves.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Yes, if there's enough other salary built in.

Larry Coon's faq, over at realgm, explains BYC. In essence if a player (Bass) gets a big raise, when you trade him is out-going (relative to Dallas) value for salary matching is less than his incoming value (relative to the team receiving him).

Thanks. So we include Stack and it could work?

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I think Diaw is versatile enough to do it. He also would get us a guy who can score from 10 feet in. He has some nice turn and face moves.

I would like Diaw, but he is extremely overpaid! That also makes it a little more complicated to get him. I could see them asking for Bass and Stack , and that is not going to happen.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

But I'd perfer something like Diaw or Bell than Felton, just because Diaw would be a solid back up to Dirk, and Bell is a great defender and would be a nce back up to Josh or our SG we should get. I doubt we could get both. Maybe? No clue.

If we could only get one of those guys, I'd take Raja Bell - he's an excellent 3-point shooter and a great defender ("shooting-guard").

But if Kidd ended up leaving, I'd love to get Felton as a replacement...

If a Bass S&T option is available with Charlotte, we should pursue it (and somehow exchange Josh's expiring for Gerald Wallace?)

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Thanks. So we include Stack and it could work?

That would be a little overboard. If Charlotte resigned Felton to 6mil, and we resigned Bass for 6mil. BYC will cut his outgoing value by half so 3mil. We would have to add another contract that makes the money work. Stack is too expensive in this case with his 7mil.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

That would be a little overboard. If Charlotte resigned Felton to 6mil, and we resigned Bass for 6mil. BYC will cut his outgoing value by half so 3mil. We would have to add another contract that makes the money work. Stack is too expensive in this case with his 7mil.

Cool, thanks. I think i understand. So Bass/Devean George might work. And i was thinking Felton gets closer to 8 million for us... not sure if that makes a difference

[Rick41]

About the rumors that reports Dallas' is interested in Glen "Big Baby" Davis from Boston;

"contrary to reports, the Mavs are not pursuing Glenn Davis. Great player, but we like our guys" - Mark Cuban on Twitter.


Doesn't the bold part seem oh so familiar?

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He took my idea!!!! I must be on to something!

Yeah, but you both stole it from Fish

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Cool, thanks. I think i understand. So Bass/Devean George might work. And i was thinking Felton gets closer to 8 million for us... not sure if that makes a difference

If we bring on Felton for 8mil than we need to pass on Kidd or find a S&T for him. I don't think he would feel to good about Felton making as much as him as the backup.

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by Rick41

About the rumors that reports Dallas' is interested in Glen "Big Baby" Davis from Boston;

"contrary to reports, the Mavs are not pursuing Glenn Davis. Great player, but we like our guys" - Mark Cuban on Twitter.


Doesn't the bold part seem oh so familiar?

That is interesting seeing as of now we don't have a backup PF. Bass very well may leave. We don't know of the FO's intention to resign Singleton. I'm not sure yet if Ahmad Nivins is ready jump into a big role as Dirk's backup. There is no telling right now who will be backing up our star.

[Don Filipe]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

People from Poland speak Polish...

Usually, yeah. I appreciate your constructive criticism a lot and you might be onto something here... On the other hand, as i mentioned he played in Germany for several years so he might understand one or two words. It's not like Dirk would still need a personal translator in Dallas, is it?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Thanks. So we include Stack and it could work?

As an example, say Dallas were sending out Stack + Bass (signed at 5.6 million). From Dallas perspective the outgoing salary would be 10.05 million (hoopshype as source for salaries, calculated as Stack's salary + half or Bass' salary), and they'd be able to take back as much as 12.6625 (10.05 x 1.25, plus .1) million. By comparison the salary coming into Charlotte would be 12.85 (Stack + Bass) million, and they would have to be sending out at least 10.2 (12.85 - .1, divided by 1.25) million in order to take that much salary back. So let's say Felton signed for a deal starting out the same as Bass', and that didn't make him BYC (not entirely sure if it would or not, but for argument's sake...). In that case Charlotte could send Dallas an additional player or players with combined salary between 4.6 and 7.0625 million and it would work (assuming my calculations are correct).

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

That is interesting seeing as of now we don't have a backup PF. Bass very well may leave. We don't know of the FO's intention to resign Singleton. I'm not sure yet if Ahmad Nivins is ready jump into a big role as Dirk's backup. There is no telling right now who will be backing up our star.

Davis wants more money, and a starting spot. Mainly the reasons the mavs aren't taking it too serious.

[RoddyB#3]

Originally Posted by Rick41

Davis wants more money, and a starting spot. Mainly the reasons the mavs aren't taking it too serious.

Oh, I wasn't trying to make a point about us going after Davis. I was interested in Cuban saying we like our guys. My point was what guys is he talking about. We have no backup PF under contract.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by badfish22

I love hearing that Gortat is a really hard worker. We know how much of a gym rat Dirk is so maybe they work out together and really push each other like Nash used to.

And to dalmations I was thinking that Jamison would play SF, or maybe Boozer would play Center. I know its kinda unrealistic but i was just throwing out the idea of using Boozer in a three way to get us a star SG/SF. Utah wants to make room to sign millsap, so it makes sense.

Jamison and Boozer both play basically the same position no matter what position you call it. Neither play enough defense.

If Utah wants to make a deal, I think you better look Detroit instead of Charlotte in a three way. They might actually give up RIP, so Avery would have that TD type player he wanted so badly in Dallas.

Actually Damp and Stack to Utah isn't a bad deal.

How about this for a three way that might meet some needs for all the teams.

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -1.8 ppg, -7.5 rpg, and +2.5 apg.
Incoming Players
Richard Hamilton
6-7 SG from Connecticut
18.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.4 apg in 34.0 minutes
Andrei Kirilenko
6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign)
11.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.6 apg in 27.3 minutes
Outgoing Players
Matt Carroll
6-6 SG from Notre Dame
4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.0 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
4.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 16.2 minutes
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forest
17.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 31.4 minutes
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
5.7 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes

Detroit Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +1.4 ppg, +6.5 rpg, and -3.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forest
17.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 31.4 minutes
Carlos Boozer
6-8 PF from Duke
16.2 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 2.1 apg in 32.3 minutes
Outgoing Players
Tayshaun Prince
6-9 SF from Kentucky
14.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.1 apg in 37.3 minutes
Richard Hamilton
6-7 SG from Connecticut
18.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.4 apg in 34.0 minutes

Utah Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +0.4 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +1.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Matt Carroll
6-6 SG from Notre Dame
4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.0 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
4.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 16.2 minutes
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
5.7 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes
Tayshaun Prince
6-9 SF from Kentucky
14.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.1 apg in 37.3 minutes
Outgoing Players
Carlos Boozer
6-8 PF from Duke
16.2 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 2.1 apg in 32.3 minutes
Andrei Kirilenko
6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign)
11.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.6 apg in 27.3 minutes


IF Dallas gets Kidd and Gortat signed:
Kidd, RIP, AK47, Dirk, Gortat -- and still have Terry and hopefully Wright, JJB,Hollins and Singleton on the bench.

Utah saves some $$$$ for signing Milsap.
Deron, Korver, Prince, Milsap and Damp/Okur very solid for Sloan.

Detroit:
they now have JHo who understands what Avery wants, and Boozer who is that inside guy for an Avery offense. And they still have Gordan in the Terry role.

Eh, just an idea.