Cuban goes public with quest for James - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Windmill360 · 05-22-2010, 11:38 PM

Check this one out:

Tampering much? It's on the bulls website still on the scrolly picture thing.

Jerry Stackhouse · 05-23-2010, 01:02 AM

I say the Mavs should just break the bank and sign both LeBron AND Dwade.

ItGetzReal · 05-23-2010, 02:32 AM

If mark can pull that off he should. Epic trade if we get both , but really I just would be happy with the king in big D.

rabbitproof · 05-24-2010, 07:38 AM

Barkley says oh hell no:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....323408e1.html

sefant77 · 05-24-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Barkley says oh hell no:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....323408e1.html

That means James is a Mav

Quote:

If they do a sign and trade, they have to get rid of their old team and keep Dirk. And him and Dirk alone wouldn’t be enough to win the championship. Those two guys would be a good team, clearly, but I guarantee that LeBron James isn’t going to Dallas. To me, it’s either New York, Cleveland or Chicago, from a basketball standpoint.

Yes, because Gali, Chandler, Douglas and Bosh/Amare is so awesome...

Spurred1 · 05-24-2010, 02:31 PM

Well, if Chuck says it...it must be so.
Remember guys, whatever he says, the opposite often happens.

BGMaverick9 · 05-24-2010, 04:30 PM

I don't know if you guys watch SportsNation on ESPN2, hilarious show.
Anyways, they have a quick transition to commercial with "Sites We Like" and it was Lebrontothemavs.com haha

I sent them a link on their facebook page on Friday afternoon, knowing they'd talk about the Cuban comments and etc. So it was a few days late I guess...
I'm not gonna say I'm responsible, but maybe I played a roll in it

clutch#41 · 05-27-2010, 02:41 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5226298
So this guy only got fined 25k for doing the same thing Cuban did???
NBA is a Joke!!!

Underdog · 05-27-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5226298
So this guy only got fined 25k for doing the same thing Cuban did???
NBA is a Joke!!!

Thomas86 · 05-27-2010, 07:44 PM

Steve Kerr $25,000

Michael Gearon $25,000

Mark Cuban $100,000

I know the Nba hate's Cuban but that's crazy!!

nowhereman · 05-27-2010, 08:06 PM

are you guys just idiots or what? Cuban was a hell of a lot more specific in what he said. The fact that Kerr got any fine at all is the real joke here.

Kerr made a joke about how much money LeBron would take. Atlanta's owner said that LeBron was worth a lot of money. Cuban talked specifically about the players motive and the method the Mavs could use to acquire him. If you can't see a difference,then you're either lying to yourself or just plain stupid.

Cuban deserved worse, to be honest. Yes, I think his offense was more than 4x worse than Gearon's and and more than 10x worse than Kerr's.

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

are you guys just idiots or what? Cuban was a hell of a lot more specific in what he said. The fact that Kerr got any fine at all is the real joke here.

Kerr made a joke about how much money LeBron would take. Atlanta's owner said that LeBron was worth a lot of money. Cuban talked specifically about the players motive and the method the Mavs could use to acquire him. If you can't see a difference,then you're either lying to yourself or just plain stupid.

Cuban deserved worse, to be honest. Yes, I think his offense was more than 4x worse than Gearon's and and more than 10x worse than Kerr's.

I'm not convinced after your reading your post that you even saw what the Hawks owner said. Here it is:

Quote:

"If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I'd do it in a heartbeat," Gearon told the newspaper on May 19. "But am I going to do that for [Zydrunas] Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O'Neal? I don't think so ..."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5226298

He was just as specific, if not moreso, than Cuban. He specifically said he would undertake luxury tax to get Lebron.

So, no, nobody here is an idiot. They are rightfully questioning whether Cuban's comment was worth 4x as much money as that comment right there.

chumdawg · 05-27-2010, 08:36 PM

I don't have the transcript in front of me, but from what I remember, Cuban's comments were much closer to being something directed *at* the player. The other comments were nothing more than stating the obvious. I do see a difference, even if subtle.

I still say, though: money well spent!

Thomas86 · 05-27-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

are you guys just idiots or what? Cuban was a hell of a lot more specific in what he said. The fact that Kerr got any fine at all is the real joke here.

Kerr made a joke about how much money LeBron would take. Atlanta's owner said that LeBron was worth a lot of money. Cuban talked specifically about the players motive and the method the Mavs could use to acquire him. If you can't see a difference,then you're either lying to yourself or just plain stupid.

Cuban deserved worse, to be honest. Yes, I think his offense was more than 4x worse than Gearon's and and more than 10x worse than Kerr's.

Before you call other people "idiots" do you really think what Cuban said was worth $100,000?....yea Steve Kerr shouldn't have been fined at all because he was joking around but to make Cuban pay $100,000 is taking it a little far don't you think?...Cuban could have been fined $50,000 or something but to make him pay $100,000 is crazy.

This can go 2 ways....Lebron can say he want's to come to Dallas in a sign and trade and Cuban's money will be well spent....or Lebron can go to another team and then Cuban is gonna look like a dumb a** for saying what he said.

At first I was mad at Cuban for what he said but I'm not anymore because I think it was smart, if Lebron wasn't think about coming to Dallas before then he PROBALY is now after what Cuban said so I think it was smart.

nowhereman · 05-27-2010, 09:38 PM

i'm not saying it wasn't worth saying for him. it's that what he said was qualitatively different from what the others said, so that's why his fine is different. thus there is absolutely no grounds for using this as an exhibit of unfair treatment because, honestly, compared to what the others said and what their punishments were, Cuban got off easy.

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

i'm not saying it wasn't worth saying for him. it's that what he said was qualitatively different from what the others said, so that's why his fine is different. thus there is absolutely no grounds for using this as an exhibit of unfair treatment because, honestly, compared to what the others said and what their punishments were, Cuban got off easy.

You haven't backed this up at all. The Hawks owner specifically commented on James and said that he would take on luxury tax to sign him. You said earlier that he didn't say anything specific, which is clearly false. I want to know why what Cuban said is 4x (or more, according to you) worse than the specific comment the Hawks owner made.

chumdawg · 05-27-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You haven't backed this up at all. The Hawks owner specifically commented on James and said that he would take on luxury tax to sign him. You said earlier that he didn't say anything specific, which is clearly false. I want to know why what Cuban said is 4x (or more, according to you) worse than the specific comment the Hawks owner made.

Here's why it's materially different. The Hawks owner stated that he would be willing to pay luxury tax to take on Lebron. Another way to say it is that he said he would be willing to pay the tax to pay a player of Lebron's caliber but not to take on a marginal player (i.e., "I'd pay the tax for Lebron, but not for big Z."). He didn't do this, evidently, but he could have, with some simple articles: "I'd pay the tax for a Lebron James, but not for a Big Z." What that is, is a statement of philosophy. It's not a recruiting pitch.

Cuban, on the other hand:

Quote:

"If he does like I'm guessing, hoping he will, which is say, 'I'm not going to leave the Cavs high and dry,' if he decides to leave -- there's still a better chance he stays -- then he'll try to force a sign-and-trade, and that gives us a chance."

That's a clear recruiting pitch. That shows an intention to influence the player's actions. "Hoping" is in itself a word that significantly differentiates the two scenarios.

The two scenarios aren't remotely the same thing.

nowhereman · 05-27-2010, 10:27 PM

Ok, maybe it isn't as obvious to everyone as I thought. But here it is in a nutshell. Cuban was specifically speaking to the motive of a player. That a team would give a max contract to LeBron but not to Ilgauskus is:

1) obvious in the public conscience,
2) not speaking to what he hopes LeBron's thought process is.

Cuban's fine wasn't 100K because he said his team, and every other team, wants LeBron. The gravamen of Cuban's fine is that he told the media something that he could only convey to LeBron in negotiations, specifically the preference of using a sign and trade and not leaving Cleveland high and dry.

If Cuban had restricted his response to "Sure, we want Lebron. We will do whatever we can to entice a sign and trade," his fine would have been substantially less. The same reason everyone is pegging this as such a "smart" decision by Cuban, despite the fine, is exactly why the fine is worth so much more.

nowhereman · 05-27-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Before you call other people "idiots"

My bad. I broke up with my girlfriend, quit smoking, and saw the Mavs get eliminated all in the same week. Been a little edgy lately!

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Here's why it's materially different. The Hawks owner stated that he would be willing to pay luxury tax to take on Lebron. Another way to say it is that he said he would be willing to pay the tax to pay a player of Lebron's caliber but not to take on a marginal player (i.e., "I'd pay the tax for Lebron, but not for big Z."). He didn't do this, evidently, but he could have, with some simple articles: "I'd pay the tax for a Lebron James, but not for a Big Z." What that is, is a statement of philosophy. It's not a recruiting pitch.

Cuban, on the other hand:

That's a clear recruiting pitch. That shows an intention to influence the player's actions. "Hoping" is in itself a word that significantly differentiates the two scenarios.

The two scenarios aren't remotely the same thing.

But he didn't say "a Lebron James." He said "Lebron James." He was talking about a certain player specifically, not some class of players. You could certainly sensibly abstract that more broadly to say that he would pay luxury tax for a player of that caliber, but in that particular quote he was talking about one specific player he would pay luxury tax for. He said what he said, not what you said.

And I disagree with your use of the word "clear." Cuban's was a fairly subtle recruiting pitch, not a "clear one." And while I agree that the statements are materially different, "not remotely the same thing" goes way too far.

chumdawg · 05-27-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You could certainly sensibly abstract that more broadly to say that he would pay luxury tax for a player of that caliber, but in that particular quote he was talking about one specific player he would pay luxury tax for. He said what he said, not what you said.

Indeed. And that's why he got fined.

Quote:

And I disagree with your use of the word "clear." Cuban's was a fairly subtle recruiting pitch, not a "clear one." And while I agree that the statements are materially different, "not remotely the same thing" goes way too far.

I didn't sense the subtlety. I thought it was in-your-face clear. And as such, markedly different from "if someone said you could have Lebron, would you?".

dude1394 · 05-27-2010, 11:10 PM

I think all of the owners and coaches should start referring to any Lebron questions as "he who's name must not be mentioned".

I would love to sign "he whose name must not be mentioned" to a SNT for Dampier and Caron. Something like that..

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Indeed. And that's why he got fined.

I didn't sense the subtlety. I thought it was in-your-face clear. And as such, markedly different from "if someone said you could have Lebron, would you?".

I don't have a problem with either of them getting fined, but I do believe that the 4:1 ratio was affected at least partially by the league's opinion of Cuban.

We're several posts removed now, but I also agree completely that it was money well spent (easy to say when it's not my money, I guess).

chumdawg · 05-27-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't have a problem with either of them getting fined, but I do believe that the 4:1 ratio was affected at least partially by the league's opinion of Cuban.

We're several posts removed now, but I also agree completely that it was money well spent (easy to say when it's not my money, I guess).

Was it a 4/1 ratio, or a 1/4 ratio?

Even so, I don't think it's apples to apples. I think it's okay for track record to matter. After all, that's why the 7th technical gets you disqualified for a game when the first six don't. That seems reasonable to me.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-27-2010, 11:36 PM

Cuban's fine was 2% of the maximum.

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Was it a 4/1 ratio, or a 1/4 ratio?

Even so, I don't think it's apples to apples. I think it's okay for track record to matter. After all, that's why the 7th technical gets you disqualified for a game when the first six don't. That seems reasonable to me.

The key difference there is that the rule is clearly defined and the player is on notice that there will be an additional punishment encompassing the history of behavior handed down after the 7th technical.

LonghornDub · 05-27-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Cuban's fine was 2% of the maximum.

Frankly, I was surprised they didn't hit him a bit harder knowing that the max was 5 mil. Even though I thought the pitch was subtle, I thought it was enough to garner a bit more than 2%. But that was before there was a frame of reference for how they would fine the Hawks owner (.5%).

chumdawg · 05-27-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The key difference there is that the rule is clearly defined and the player is on notice that there will be an additional punishment encompassing the history of behavior handed down after the 7th technical.

I don't think it matters whether it is clearly defined or not. I think reasonable people understand that habitual offenders will likely be subject to stiffer penalties.

DubOverdose · 05-28-2010, 06:05 AM

I think its funny that Cuban's comment was fairly similar to Stern's. Stern said something along the lines that max salaries were set up to help teams retain their top FAs and that he wanted James to resign in Cleveland. Cuban said not to leave the Cavs high and dry.

KINGBEEF · 05-28-2010, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

I think its funny that Cuban's comment was fairly similar to Stern's. Stern said something along the lines that max salaries were set up to help teams retain their top FAs and that he wanted James to resign in Cleveland. Cuban said not to leave the Cavs high and dry.

When you're the boss, it's so easy to dictate what's right and what's wrong in your favor!!!

Kidd Karma · 05-28-2010, 11:51 AM

Hey, maybe someone with access to Stern, should point that out........

sefant77 · 05-28-2010, 08:31 PM

Cuban should use the june to get the official permission to play "x" games next season in cowbows stadium.

Its nice headlines for end of june...

RedPhase · 06-06-2010, 06:39 PM

A better question would be whats the point of fining billionaires? What the fine goes to a charity? Ok thats really gonna make me cry at night stu/stern..lol.

Kidd Karma · 06-07-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

As one front-office executive with a franchise that has significant salary-cap space this summer said, “I think all the big free-agent deals will be done by July 1, if not the draft. The NBA would have a cow if [it] knew what’s going on now.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...nfluence060510

dude1394 · 06-07-2010, 03:42 PM

What does the dude mean (hey I'm dense okay) about the nba having a cow if they knew what was going on. Spell it out for me man!

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-07-2010, 04:58 PM

I take pretty much every Lebron rumor with a grain of salt at this point.

Marc Stein was on Ben and Skin saying he doesn't know why people outside of Dallas aren't talking about Lebron coming here.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-07-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I take pretty much every Lebron rumor with a grain of salt at this point.

Marc Stein was on Ben and Skin saying he doesn't know why people outside of Dallas aren't talking about Lebron coming here.

What really gets me is when people actually talk about Miami as a possible destination for Lebron. I can understand the other teams, but how on god's green earth is Miami a better option for Lebron than Dallas??

BGMaverick9 · 06-07-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

What really gets me is when people actually talk about Miami as a possible destination for Lebron. I can understand the other teams, but how on god's green earth is Miami a better option for Lebron than Dallas??

Bc these are superstars with big egos..."hey I'm a great player, you (wade) are a great player...we can do it."

Usually Lurkin · 06-07-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I take pretty much every Lebron rumor with a grain of salt at this point. .

every one of them??? Careful. Sounds like a recipe for high blood pressure to me.

aquaadverse · 06-07-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

What really gets me is when people actually talk about Miami as a possible destination for Lebron. I can understand the other teams, but how on god's green earth is Miami a better option for Lebron than Dallas??

If Miami moves Beasley they could have three max contracts, or two and some lower tier pieces and potentially Riley as coach, no state income tax and a pretty nice city to live in. No sign and trades needed.

Of course not having any sign and trade pieces could work against them, but if you're talking about having the flexibility to assemble a win now roster without needing to play contract tradeoffs, it's a good thing. If Miami signed Lebron and kept Wade free agency isn't over for them. Is it a long shot? Sure. Impossible? Hardly. The number of coaches that have successfully managed, that's not the same as coaching, a couple of high profile superstars in their prime isn't a long list.

Wherever James ends up, he isn't going to be bailing in a couple of years and it's probably sunk in that the most regular season wins doesn't mean much if you get out coached in the playoffs. It's also not his last contract, and while he might not give a crap about playing with Wade and being coached by Riley, I doubt he's hyperventilating at the chance to turn his destiny over to RC either.