Mavs @ New Orleans Gameday thread

[V2M]

That's a statement game!! A 15-point win playing back-to-back, on the road, in the second game of the season after losing 3 starters and 9 players in all from last season.

This is a unique team with a great blend of offense & defense, inside & outside games, experience & youth, skill & athleticism that not the Detroits, Minnesotas nor the San Antonios of the league possess.

If healthy, I don't see how this team could lose 4 games in a 7 game series this year. That means, nothing short of a championship or two would do for me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Waschdel]

I think it is a bit early to say that the Mavs will win it all.
But:
- how many times did last years Mavs win on the road in such a dominating manner?
- who would have thought that this years Mavs will start like they did with all the new players and the injury-problems in the preseason?
- the Mavs offense seems to roll on unaffected after the departure of Nash.
- the Mavs finally realized who is their go-to-and-go-through-guy.
- Mike Finley had a brilliant season-start.
- the sheer presence of a beefy center seems to propel the Mavs defense.
- Stackhouse and Terry contribute from the very start.

Some good reasons to wear shades in November.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Waschdels:
- the sheer presence of a beefy center seems to propel the Mavs defense.

I couldn't agree more. It makes me more confident in them too! I started feeling really nervous when Nellie threw out a lineup that had neither Damp nor Bradley in the game.

[DubOverdose]

Dampier doesn't even have to play great for the Mavs to be significantly better off defensively.

[kingrex]

3 Things the Mavs did right in this game:
1) Poured it on. This team kept the offensive pressure going all 4 quarters. There was no let up. They kept pressuring the Hornets and quelled any real chance to diminish the lead.

2) Emphasized the break. There were 17 fast break points for the Mavs. Exemplified by the rebound-and-run game that Stackhouse brought off the bench. I would also hightlight Marquis' heads up outlet pass to Dirk for a dunk as further evidence.

3) Emergence of the "MOB". After the game, Jason Terry wanted to start calling the the guys coming of the bench as the "MOB". I like how that group is starting to develop an identity. I especially like the energy and points they bring in. Start printing those "MOB" t-shirts, I'll be your first sale.

Keep up the improvements, Mavs!

[sike]

Emergence of the "MOB". After the game, Jason Terry wanted to start calling the the guys coming of the bench as the "MOB".

I love JT, hes already thinking of ways to make the bench its own crew..with its own identity....and serious pride! And I forgot how sweet that jumper of his can look.... very smooth and quick release.

[kingrex]

3 Things the Mavs did wrong in this game:
1) Manage those fouls. I realize it is just the second game or 82, but let's not get into the habit of fouling out players. Bradley was playing fairly well when he fouled out. Why not utilize Booth and/or Mbenga there? It would have been a good chance to see what those guys can do against a legitimate NBA center (Magliore). Bradley didn't have to fould out.

2) Take advantage of garbage time. Dallas was fifteen points ahead in the closing minutes, this would be a perfect situation for Harris to further his education as an NBA point guard. Maybe if the lead were in single-digits, I would understand playing the guys who are hot, but come on the Hornets were not going to come back from that game.

3) No more "small ball" please. In the past, Nellie has resorted to small ball to negate an oppenents advantage, or because those were the best 5 to put in. In this game (and I realize it was only for a few minutes), we saw a team with Nowitzki at the 5. With the number of other guys we can plug at the 5, is this line-up really necessary? Let's play Dirk at the 4 where he belongs and never play "small ball" unless absolutely necessary.

As a fan, it is sometimes difficult to find things your team does wrong, especially when they win, but here they are anyway.

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: sike

I love JT, hes already thinking of ways to make the bench its own crew..with its own identity....and serious pride! And I forgot how sweet that jumper of his can look.... very smooth and quick release.

He and Stack both are just happy to be out of Atlanta and Washington respectively, that they are just eager to please.

I really like both guys right now, and what they bring to the table.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: kingrex
3 Things the Mavs did wrong in this game:
1) Manage those fouls. I realize it is just the second game or 82, but let's not get into the habit of fouling out players. Bradley was playing fairly well when he fouled out. Why not utilize Booth and/or Mbenga there? It would have been a good chance to see what those guys can do against a legitimate NBA center (Magliore). Bradley didn't have to fould out.

2) Take advantage of garbage time. Dallas was fifteen points ahead in the closing minutes, this would be a perfect situation for Harris to further his education as an NBA point guard. Maybe if the lead were in single-digits, I would understand playing the guys who are hot, but come on the Hornets were not going to come back from that game.

3) No more "small ball" please. In the past, Nellie has resorted to small ball to negate an oppenents advantage, or because those were the best 5 to put in. In this game (and I realize it was only for a few minutes), we saw a team with Nowitzki at the 5. With the number of other guys we can plug at the 5, is this line-up really necessary? Let's play Dirk at the 4 where he belongs and never play "small ball" unless absolutely necessary.

As a fan, it is sometimes difficult to find things your team does wrong, especially when they win, but here they are anyway.

As to point #1, I've got to disagree. I love what Shawn brings to the table, especially last night. However as a backup center it makes no sense not to use Bradley until he fouls out. Shawn gave us 16 really good minutes and didn't foul out until the 4th. As long as Damp is healthy, managing Shawn's fouls is not that important. This is much better than inserting Bradley and jerking him out after he picks up a foul or two and never seeing him again.

I would have liked to seen Harris get a few more garbage time minutes though. Hopefully this won't be a long term trend.

I have to disagree with point #3 though. I'm as critical of Nellie as most anybody on this board for playing small ball and not playing a center. However Bradley and Damp combined to play 47 out of a possible 48 minutes at center. If we see small ball for just 1 minute per game that is more than acceptable to me. I think that in certain situations, like at end of quarters, it actually makes good sense to go without a center for a possession or two.

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: LRB

As to point #1, I've got to disagree. I love what Shawn brings to the table, especially last night. However as a backup center it makes no sense not to use Bradley until he fouls out. Shawn gave us 16 really good minutes and didn't foul out until the 4th. As long as Damp is healthy, managing Shawn's fouls is not that important. This is much better than inserting Bradley and jerking him out after he picks up a foul or two and never seeing him again.

I would have liked to seen Harris get a few more garbage time minutes though. Hopefully this won't be a long term trend.

I have to disagree with point #3 though. I'm as critical of Nellie as most anybody on this board for playing small ball and not playing a center. However Bradley and Damp combined to play 47 out of a possible 48 minutes at center. If we see small ball for just 1 minute per game that is more than acceptable to me. I think that in certain situations, like at end of quarters, it actually makes good sense to go without a center for a possession or two.

There really is an overarching theme in all 3 points, and that is if you have the guys on the bench to use, why not use them? I liked what Bradley did too (despite the stat sheet), but if he was in foul trouble, why not go to the other potential back-up centers? Let's see how Mbenga plays against Magloire. It's not as if it were a tight game. So, my point was not against Bradley, so much as it was to give the yet-to-be-played centers a chance to play.

More to the point, I agree that Harris should have had a chance to somewhat redeem his slow start by playing some extended garbage minutes. Especially, since he would still be playing against the Hornet's starting line (as you know they didn't leave until 2 minutes left in the game).

As in the last game, my third point is somewhat weak, so I'll concede that in this case (i.e. at the end of a quarter) maybe "small ball" was warranted.

[LRB]

There really is an overarching theme in all 3 points, and that is if you have the guys on the bench to use, why not use them? I liked what Bradley did too (despite the stat sheet), but if he was in foul trouble, why not go to the other potential back-up centers? Let's see how Mbenga plays against Magloire. It's not as if it were a tight game. So, my point was not against Bradley, so much as it was to give the yet-to-be-played centers a chance to play.

Benga is currently not ready for prime time. We had a comfortable need so long as we played smart. Putting an untried rookie in against an All-Star center is not playing smart. Plus Shawn needs minutes as well. He only got 1 minute the previous night. 16 minutes is about right for the role Shawn is in. If we needed another backup then Booth or Benga could have played. Right now Nellie is going with a 10 man rotation which is plenty big IMO. Benga and Booth are insurance against injuries ritght now and little more. Extremely few teams have a 10 man regular rotation.

[sike]

Terry came off the bench to score 18 points, dish five assists and come up with four steals in 39 minutes.

I'm a fan of 4 steals.......and 18 points................and the personality......................and I guess I'm sold on the headband and socks as well [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
and he's only 26.

[EricaLubarsky]

I'm a fan of the improved consistency of Terry. Harris has the potential to be better and may be, but he's a rookie and his consistency sucks. I'm glad we aren't going to live and die by the consistency of our rookie phenom.

[sike]

if you don't believe me, find it here you doubting doubterson

Mavs make it 2-for-2

By Art Garcia

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


NEW ORLEANS - Two games in, two impressive performances by the Mavericks.

The Mavs (2-0) followed their season-opening win over archrival Sacramento by displaying their superior depth in burying the New Orleans Hornets 106-91 on Wednesday night at New Orleans Arena.

Led by a trio of 19-point scorers, the Mavs gave the Hornets their first taste of the rugged Western Conference and the newly formed Southwest Division. New Orleans was a playoff team last season in the East.

"It's going to get harder for everybody," Mavs coach Don Nelson said, "including us."

Through two games, the Mavs have made it look easy. For the 14th time in franchise history, the Mavs opened a season with back-to-back games. For only the third time, the team won both.

Much of the credit goes to the "MOB," in other words, the Mavs' bench. Jason Terry christened the reserves with the catchy nickname, but it's becoming obvious they won't need any clever gimmicks to gain attention.

Terry came off the bench to score 18 points, dish five assists and come up with four steals in 39 minutes. He played most of the game in place of Devin Harris. Nelson didn't have a good feeling about his rookie starter early, so the coach decided to go with the veteran Terry.

But Nelson won't have a problem going to anyone sitting on the sideline when the ball tips off. Jerry Stackhouse, his designated sixth man, followed his eight-point debut against the Kings with 19 points in 30 minutes.

"Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse came in off the bench and gave us energy," Michael Finley said. "They give us power off the bench."

Shawn Bradley, Marquis Daniels and Alan Henderson came off the bench to play at least 14 minutes each. Bradley and Henderson used up 10 fouls, and Daniels did a little bit of everything.

As a result, Nelson only needed 25 minutes out of Finley, who went for 36 minutes and 18 points in the 107-98 opening-night win. Finley added 19 points in this game. Dirk Nowitzki, the only player Nelson truly expects to log heavy minutes, was the third in the 19-point act.

"If that's the formula for how we're going to attack back-to-backs, I thought it was good," Stackhouse said. "We extended our starters a little bit [Tuesday] and they didn't have to come back [tired] tonight. We were still fresh.

"[New Orleans] was a team that had a lot of things going for them tonight. It was their home opener, they had a lot of energy in the building and we came out and took the air out of it."

Terry spelled Harris four minutes into the game and pushed the Mavs into attack mode. Terry helped turn an early deficit into an eight-point lead by the end of the first quarter. The advantage grew to double figures briefly in the second quarter and remained more than 10 points for the majority of the second half.

The Mavs finished the game shooting 53.8 percent -- they were 19-0 last season when hitting at least 50 percent -- and held the Hornets to 41.0 percent from the field.

"We had a well-balanced attack on the offensive end," said Nowitzki, who also had five assists for the second consecutive game. "We moved the ball well and made some shots."

The Mavs looked more comfortable on the road and it had nothing to do with suiting up in their home whites (New Orleans introduced yellow road uniforms for its home opener, so the Mavs couldn't wear their blue uniforms).

The Mavs never found their rhythm on the road last season, going 16-25 after posting winning records away from American Airlines Center the previous three seasons.

"Winning on the road is more of a mind-set," Finley said.

Two games in, everyone seems to be thinking alike.

HORNETS 91 MAVERICKS 106

IN THE KNOW

BREAKDOWN

Why Dallas won: The Mavs were snapped out of an early spell by the aggressive play of Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse. The Mavs hit 54 percent from the field and committed only 11 turnovers.

Why New Orleans lost: Outside of Baron Davis (25 points), the Hornets didn't have another player get on track. Missing 17 of 21 3-point attempts didn't help

[sike]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I'm a fan of the improved consistency of Terry. Harris has the potential to be better and may be, but he's a rookie and his consistency sucks. I'm glad we aren't going to live and die by the consistency of our rookie phenom.

two games and you've dubbed Harris an inconsistant rookie....?

[sike]

here

Mavs make New Orleans trip look easy, 106-91
02:15 AM CST on Thursday, November 4, 2004
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
NEW ORLEANS – Don Nelson pulled old friend Allen Bristow aside at New Orleans Arena on Wednesday night, and Bristow had only one thing to say.

"Way to dismantle us," the Hornets general manager said.

Mavericks/NBA
Mavs 106, New Orleans 91

Mavs make New Orleans trip look easy

Nelson likes to play other teams' openers

Box score

Mavericks Forum

More Mavericks
Nelson could only flash a sheepish grin. On a night when the Hornets trotted out every predictable wild, wild west prop, including a horse prancing on the court, they had no chance of staying with the Mavericks' herd of studs. And it was a large herd.

With Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry leading a strong bench brigade, the Mavericks gave New Orleans a 106-91 hazing as their welcome to the Western Conference.

"All I can say is, 'Get used to it,' " said Terry, who had 18 points, five assists and half of the Mavericks' eight steals. "We're going to spread it around."

Starting the season with back-to-back games, Nelson didn't want to overuse his starters. While Michael Finley had 19 points, he only had to play 25 minutes, thanks to Stackhouse, who celebrated his 30th birthday two days early by matching Finley's point total.

"The depth of our team really showed," Nelson said. "That's the way good teams do it."

It's way too early to know how good the Mavericks will be, but they are 2-0. Dirk Nowitzki threw in 33 points in the opener, and while he had 19 on Wednesday, he was just as effective with five assists for the second game in a row.

[sike]

"All I can say is, 'Get used to it,' " said Terry, who had 18 points, five assists and half of the Mavericks' eight steals. "We're going to spread it around."

heck yeah..."GET USED TO IT!"

[Jamisonite]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I'm a fan of the improved consistency of Terry. Harris has the potential to be better and may be, but he's a rookie and his consistency sucks. I'm glad we aren't going to live and die by the consistency of our rookie phenom.

Its hard to be consistant with 8 minutes

[LRB]

It's more than a little unfair to label Harris inconsistent at this point in the season. As a rookie playing is 2nd NBA game and 1st back to back game as well as 1st road game I thought Harris handled himself extremely well in limited playing time. Terry was just on a hot streak last night and Nellie road him. I think Harris not playing much was more to do with Terry's outstanding play than any percieved inconsistency with the rookie.

[u2sarajevo]

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Erica was referring to the inconsistency common with rookie players in general. And she was also pointing out that we have a luxury at PG with Terry being able to take over the times that Harris is struggling.

[sike]

dont think so U2....

EL: but he's a rookie and his consistency sucks.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: sike
dont think so U2....

You didn't highlight enough of her statement. but he's a rookie and his consistency sucks. Highlight it all and I think it could be taken as his consistency sucks because he's a rookie.

But whatever. I'm not here to defend EL.

[sike]

highlight whatever you like, the meaning is clear to me...Harris's consistency sucks.

[LRB]

I think Erica is the one, and only one, who can definitively settle the argument as to exactly what she meant. However, I tend to agree with the alien as to the perception of what she said. Looks to me like she was calling Harris out for being inconsistent.

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: LRB

Benga is currently not ready for prime time. We had a comfortable need so long as we played smart. Putting an untried rookie in against an All-Star center is not playing smart. Plus Shawn needs minutes as well. He only got 1 minute the previous night. 16 minutes is about right for the role Shawn is in. If we needed another backup then Booth or Benga could have played. Right now Nellie is going with a 10 man rotation which is plenty big IMO. Benga and Booth are insurance against injuries ritght now and little more. Extremely few teams have a 10 man regular rotation.

Maybe this is where you and I differ, but I believe you determine how ready Mbenga is by playing him. It wouldn't have been risky to play him at that point. The game was not in jeopardy, and you would have learned something about the kid. Shawn will get plenty of minutes (and to be fair so will Mbenga we hope), but in this specific game, I believe it would have benefitted Mbenga to play against Magloire, and in the long run help in his long term development. I respect your opinion, but we just simply disagree.

[Cybertx]

Originally posted by: kingrex

Maybe this is where you and I differ, but I believe you determine how ready Mbenga is by playing him. It wouldn't have been risky to play him at that point. The game was not in jeopardy, and you would have learned something about the kid. Shawn will get plenty of minutes (and to be fair so will Mbenga we hope), but in this specific game, I believe it would have benefitted Mbenga to play against Magloire, and in the long run help in his long term development. I respect your opinion, but we just simply disagree.

Excellent points agree with both but what happens when one of the centers gets injured and mbenja and booth are out of form or playing level.

I don't want to replace shawn but garbage time is for the players that will not play in a close game.


Shawn being the backup center will have plenty of minutes in this seasson.

[chumdawg]

For me the highlight of last night was hearing Nellie say postgame that Terry and Bradley were his best players. Nellie's willingness to go to Bradley last night is a terrific sign.

I have always said that one of the biggest things keeping Bradley on the bench was not Nellie's evalution of the player himself, but rather his evaluation of the team as a whole at that position. If Bradley can give you 20 good minutes a night, but you don't have another true center to throw out there for the other 48, then Bradley becomes a victim of gameplanning. A coach has to mold his team, and I think he usually wants one mold only, not two.

But now, you have interchangeable guys at that position. If it's not Damp, it's Bradley--and vice versa. It allows you to always keep a legit center in the mold. Bradley should see a lot of time this year. I'm loving it.

Not to mention the rest of the depth, which is tremendous too. Stackhouse is a warrior getting to the line.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: LRB
It's more than a little unfair to label Harris inconsistent at this point in the season. As a rookie playing is 2nd NBA game and 1st back to back game as well as 1st road game I thought Harris handled himself extremely well in limited playing time. Terry was just on a hot streak last night and Nellie road him. I think Harris not playing much was more to do with Terry's outstanding play than any percieved inconsistency with the rookie.

That's what I was about to reply to. It's a bit early to label someone inconsistent after 2 games. It's clear Terry was the reason for Harris being on the bench. Same reason Fin got limited minutes. I'm not trying to jump on Erica or anything but I think while we should be optimistic about these two games I think you're putting a bit too much into those two games.

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: Cybertx

Excellent points agree with both but what happens when one of the centers gets injured and mbenja and booth are out of form or playing level.

I don't want to replace shawn but garbage time is for the players that will not play in a close game.


Shawn being the backup center will have plenty of minutes in this seasson.

At the risk of belaboring the point, you've pretty much stated mine. In that game, with a big lead, Mbenga getting some PT would have been a benefit rather than a detriment. Granted in the grand scheme of a whole season it ain't no thang, but in the microcosm of that game why not play Mbenga.

[Steve13]

where the stack haters at now? him and JT played great

[LRB]

By KingRex:

Maybe this is where you and I differ, but I believe you determine how ready Mbenga is by playing him. It wouldn't have been risky to play him at that point. The game was not in jeopardy, and you would have learned something about the kid. Shawn will get plenty of minutes (and to be fair so will Mbenga we hope), but in this specific game, I believe it would have benefitted Mbenga to play against Magloire, and in the long run help in his long term development. I respect your opinion, but we just simply disagree.

There was only a little over 2 minutes of garbage time when Scott threw in the towel and pulled his starters. I wouldn't have had much of a problem playing Benga there since Shawn had already fouled out and Damp had gotten plenty of minutes already. I wouldn't want to have played Benga any earlier though. Benga needs quality minutes, not garbage minutes to develop. Hopefully once the regular rotation has meshed, maybe sometime in late December, early January with luck, Benga can get some quality minutes. Until then the focus needs to be to get the regular rotation as many quality minutes as possible so that they can mesh. Yeah if Shawn or Damp or Dirk or Hendu goes down we will need to play Benga or at least Booth. But the that's only a maybe. We know we will be playing Damp, Shawn, Dirk, and Hendu and they need time to mesh together and with the rest of the team. That has to be top priority from now until the team meshes. Ideally we could give Benga this whole year to develop without having to call on him.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: LRB
By KingRex:

There was only a little over 2 minutes of garbage time when Scott threw in the towel and pulled his starters. I wouldn't have had much of a problem playing Benga there since Shawn had already fouled out and Damp had gotten plenty of minutes already. I wouldn't want to have played Benga any earlier though. Benga needs quality minutes, not garbage minutes to develop. Hopefully once the regular rotation has meshed, maybe sometime in late December, early January with luck, Benga can get some quality minutes. Until then the focus needs to be to get the regular rotation as many quality minutes as possible so that they can mesh. Yeah if Shawn or Damp or Dirk or Hendu goes down we will need to play Benga or at least Booth. But the that's only a maybe. We know we will be playing Damp, Shawn, Dirk, and Hendu and they need time to mesh together and with the rest of the team. That has to be top priority from now until the team meshes. Ideally we could give Benga this whole year to develop without having to call on him.

IMO, treat him just like Big Bill is treating Drew Henson. Train him up, but don't let him see the "field" till needed or next year....unless you see that he is better than what you currently have on the field (court).

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Steve13
where the stack haters at now? him and JT played great

I'm still here. He had a great showing last night but it's not like he showcased brilliance against the Kings. He was horrible that game. I know Stack is capable of games like last night. I also know he his capable of games like Tuesday night.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

IMO, treat him just like Big Bill is treating Drew Henson. Train him up, but don't let him see the "field" till needed or next year....unless you see that he is better than what you currently have on the field (court).

Henson and Harris are in two totally different situations. Henson hasn't played football in years. Harris came straight out of college basketball. It's really hard to showcase anything in 9 minutes. I'm not saying he should get 30 a game but he should atleast get consistent minutes in teh 15-20 range. You train him up from there.

[LRB]

Henson and Harris are in two totally different situations. Henson hasn't played football in years. Harris came straight out of college basketball. It's really hard to showcase anything in 9 minutes. I'm not saying he should get 30 a game but he should atleast get consistent minutes in teh 15-20 range. You train him up from there.

FFM the discussion was about playing Benga and not Harris. Harris is a starter and a regular part of our rotation. Benga is a development project and may or may not be needed at all this year. Right now he's not good enough to earn PT on his play alone.

[dude1394]

If Harris ISN'T INCONSISTENT I will be shocked, he's a durn rookie, good grief. And as far as Benga playing, he'd better work hard in practice and study his playbook or he doesn't play, period. He'll get some time but Nellie's right sticking with the top 7-9 now, they need more time playing together. There will be time later for Mbenga etc., especially when the injuries occur.

[LRB]

If Harris ISN'T INCONSISTENT I will be shocked

Here's hoping that you get shocked pretty bad Dude. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

Yeah, I could stand to be shocked. But I expect he will be inconsistent, some nights otherwordly and others looking dumber than a post. But of course some players (stevie franchise comes to mind) never get past dumber than a post.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: LRB

FFM the discussion was about playing Benga and not Harris. Harris is a starter and a regular part of our rotation. Benga is a development project and may or may not be needed at all this year. Right now he's not good enough to earn PT on his play alone.

Kinda got confused by that. I was sort of skimming the thread and just assumed it was directed at Harris rather than Benga. I do agree. I don't think I want Benga getting minutes ahead of Bradley and Henderson right now.

[Ninkobei]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Henson and Harris are in two totally different situations. Henson hasn't played football in years. Harris came straight out of college basketball. It's really hard to showcase anything in 9 minutes. I'm not saying he should get 30 a game but he should atleast get consistent minutes in teh 15-20 range. You train him up from there.

I think he's talkin about Benga, not Harris. But This brings up a good point: "..Unless you see that he is better than what you currently have" How are we supposed to know if he's better when he's not even playing? Then again, it's only been 2 games and I'm sure Nelly just wanted to see his teams potential at the start rather than throwing in the rooks.